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Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 09:37

Yes, Mick Taylor rhythm guitar playing on SFM (1969) is just fantastic, rough and pleasurable. An infernal duo with Keith.
Gold Stones era with Mick Taylor. Never as good since he left.
I have always dreamed that Ron can play with so much constancy.

[youtu.be]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 14:11 by powerage78.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 12, 2017 10:32

Quote
powerage78
Yes, Mick Taylor rhythm guitar playing on SFM (1969) is just fantastic, rough and pleasurable. An infernal duo with Keith.
Gold Stones era with Mick Taylor. Never as good since he left?.
I have always dreamed that Ron can play with so much constancy.

[youtu.be]

Your dreams were heard smoking smiley





[www.youtube.com]

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: bitusa2012 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 11:32

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
whilst to the layman sound "great", to me there is no fluency or pattern to them - he is playing within his limits....and luckily in key..

Every guitarist plays within his/her limits. Playing OUTSIDE their limits would actually be impossible and therefore just horrible to hear.

****** Rod - love the missus, the Stones, Springsteen, Travel, NYC, Cars and Apple.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: October 12, 2017 11:36

Quote
bitusa2012
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
whilst to the layman sound "great", to me there is no fluency or pattern to them - he is playing within his limits....and luckily in key..

Every guitarist plays within his/her limits. Playing OUTSIDE their limits would actually be impossible and therefore just horrible to hear.

Sorry, that statement is simply not true. And it's not only not true for guitarists, but neither for painters, writers, football players, opera singers. One always tends to go beyond what one can. One can only pushing one's limits if one goes outside. That's why the Stones didn't end up as The Animals or the Pretty Things, but ended up being the greatest rock n roll band in the world.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 12, 2017 11:44

Quote
matxil
Quote
bitusa2012
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
whilst to the layman sound "great", to me there is no fluency or pattern to them - he is playing within his limits....and luckily in key..

Every guitarist plays within his/her limits. Playing OUTSIDE their limits would actually be impossible and therefore just horrible to hear.

Sorry, that statement is simply not true. And it's not only not true for guitarists, but neither for painters, writers, football players, opera singers. One always tends to go beyond what one can. One can only pushing one's limits if one goes outside. That's why the Stones didn't end up as The Animals or the Pretty Things, but ended up being the greatest rock n roll band in the world.

That's right, but the question is WHEN you'll be pushing the boundaries. Will you do it on stage? In the rehearsal room? While writing?

People are different. Guitarists are different.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: bitusa2012 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 11:45

Quote
matxil
Quote
bitusa2012
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
whilst to the layman sound "great", to me there is no fluency or pattern to them - he is playing within his limits....and luckily in key..

Every guitarist plays within his/her limits. Playing OUTSIDE their limits would actually be impossible and therefore just horrible to hear.

Sorry, that statement is simply not true. And it's not only not true for guitarists, but neither for painters, writers, football players, opera singers. One always tends to go beyond what one can. One can only pushing one's limits if one goes outside. That's why the Stones didn't end up as The Animals or the Pretty Things, but ended up being the greatest rock n roll band in the world.

Sorry, but your statement CAN'T be true. You can certainly PUSH the limits, even extend them, but you can't go outside your limits without self-destructing

****** Rod - love the missus, the Stones, Springsteen, Travel, NYC, Cars and Apple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 11:46 by bitusa2012.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: yeababyyea ()
Date: October 12, 2017 11:48

Quote
MartinB
Quote
yeababyyea
I think it's more fair to compare this years performances with how they played the last few years than with 1969. And to be honest I think the Stones are better now than in 2013/2014, the yearly touring since 2012 has really warmed up the machinery if we overlook a few imperfections in Keith's playing. When I listen to songs like Start Me Up, Brown Sugar and Gimme Shelter the groove and flow is better than the last few years.

I can't agree. What i hear (in concert, not YT clips) is what i hear.

I think the most obvious difference is that Mick's voice sounds better this year, to make a quick comparison:

Start Me Up Düsseldorf 2014: [www.youtube.com]

Start Me Up Düsseldorf 2017: [www.youtube.com]

In the 2017 video Mick voice sounds fresher and Lisa is not overpowering him.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 12, 2017 11:55

Quote
bitusa2012
Quote
matxil
Quote
bitusa2012
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
whilst to the layman sound "great", to me there is no fluency or pattern to them - he is playing within his limits....and luckily in key..

Every guitarist plays within his/her limits. Playing OUTSIDE their limits would actually be impossible and therefore just horrible to hear.

Sorry, that statement is simply not true. And it's not only not true for guitarists, but neither for painters, writers, football players, opera singers. One always tends to go beyond what one can. One can only pushing one's limits if one goes outside. That's why the Stones didn't end up as The Animals or the Pretty Things, but ended up being the greatest rock n roll band in the world.

Sorry, but your statement CAN'T be true. You can certainly PUSH the limits, even extend them, but you can't go outside your limits without self-destructing

Yes you can, when improvising without a plan. It's not bound be a disaster at all.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: erad ()
Date: October 12, 2017 12:23

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
powerage78
Yes, Mick Taylor rhythm guitar playing on SFM (1969) is just fantastic, rough and pleasurable. An infernal duo with Keith.
Gold Stones era with Mick Taylor. Never as good since he left?.
I have always dreamed that Ron can play with so much constancy.

[youtu.be]

Your dreams were heard smoking smiley





[www.youtube.com]

Ronnie puts in a good effort there, but come on dude the versions from 69-73 blow it away.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 12:34

thumbs up

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 12, 2017 12:56

Quote
erad
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
powerage78
Yes, Mick Taylor rhythm guitar playing on SFM (1969) is just fantastic, rough and pleasurable. An infernal duo with Keith.
Gold Stones era with Mick Taylor. Never as good since he left?.
I have always dreamed that Ron can play with so much constancy.

[youtu.be]

Your dreams were heard smoking smiley





[www.youtube.com]

Ronnie puts in a good effort there, but come on dude the versions from 69-73 blow it away.

We were only talking about rhythm guitar here, please tell me why Taylor blows this rhythm work away. Will be interesting..

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Meise ()
Date: October 12, 2017 12:56

[quote:yeababyyea] I think the most obvious difference is that Mick's voice sounds better this year, to make a quick comparison:

Start Me Up Düsseldorf 2014: [www.youtube.com]

Start Me Up Düsseldorf 2017: [www.youtube.com]

In the 2017 video Mick voice sounds fresher and Lisa is not overpowering him.[/quote]

In 2014, Mick sounds tired and he seems to be struggling catching the right tune. That's why he leaves the first vocal bar to Lisa and Bernard.
In 2017, Mick's voice indeed seems more powerful and focussed, hitting mostly the right notes.
However, all depends on form of the day. Don't forget: that guy's over 70 ...

________________________________________

I can't imagine a world without the Rolling Stones! (A. Erthegun)



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 12:59 by Meise.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 12, 2017 13:54

Quote
yeababyyea
Quote
MartinB
Quote
yeababyyea
I think it's more fair to compare this years performances with how they played the last few years than with 1969. And to be honest I think the Stones are better now than in 2013/2014, the yearly touring since 2012 has really warmed up the machinery if we overlook a few imperfections in Keith's playing. When I listen to songs like Start Me Up, Brown Sugar and Gimme Shelter the groove and flow is better than the last few years.

I can't agree. What i hear (in concert, not YT clips) is what i hear.

I think the most obvious difference is that Mick's voice sounds better this year, to make a quick comparison:

Start Me Up Düsseldorf 2014: [www.youtube.com]

Start Me Up Düsseldorf 2017: [www.youtube.com]

In the 2017 video Mick voice sounds fresher and Lisa is not overpowering him.

Can't notice much difference with Mick's voice, but what i did notice was that Keith's sound is much better in 2017.

In fact i would go so far as to say the most noticeable difference overall in the last few years is Mick. He has slowed down. He's not the same force of nature and energy now. Its obviously to be expected, the man is 74. I can't think of any other performer his age with as much energy, but he is only human and he has slowed down physically. Ronnie on the other hand as never been more energetic on stage. He is playing and moving like a man possessed, like a man who's time is running out.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 12, 2017 14:03

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
yeababyyea
Quote
MartinB
Quote
yeababyyea
I think it's more fair to compare this years performances with how they played the last few years than with 1969. And to be honest I think the Stones are better now than in 2013/2014, the yearly touring since 2012 has really warmed up the machinery if we overlook a few imperfections in Keith's playing. When I listen to songs like Start Me Up, Brown Sugar and Gimme Shelter the groove and flow is better than the last few years.

I can't agree. What i hear (in concert, not YT clips) is what i hear.

I think the most obvious difference is that Mick's voice sounds better this year, to make a quick comparison:

Start Me Up Düsseldorf 2014: [www.youtube.com]

Start Me Up Düsseldorf 2017: [www.youtube.com]

In the 2017 video Mick voice sounds fresher and Lisa is not overpowering him.

Can't notice much difference with Mick's voice, but what i did notice was that Keith's sound is much better in 2017.

In fact i would go so far as to say the most noticeable difference overall in the last few years is Mick. He has slowed down. He's not the same force of nature and energy now. Its obviously to be expected, the man is 74. I can't think of any other performer his age with as much energy, but he is only human and he has slowed down physically. Ronnie on the other hand as never been more energetic on stage. He is playing and moving like a man possessed, like a man who's time is running out.

Indeed. But he has also focused more on his singing. A welcomed change, imo. He's brilliant on this tour.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 12, 2017 14:09

Yes DP as i have said many times, we get Mick singing better as a result of him not waving his hands so much. winking smiley

But not so much on the example shown of SMU. It was just a better recording in general on the clip.

However i think he struggled with Play With Fire compared to 89' or 90' hence he dropped it, which was a shame because Keith played great on it.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 12, 2017 14:11

Hm, I liked this Play With Fire better than in 1989. I thought he sounded more brutal on it back then. Same with Angie (on recent tours), compared to 1990.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 14:14

Ronnie is Angus Young.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 12, 2017 14:16

Quote
powerage78
Ronnie is Angus Young.

thumbs up

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 12, 2017 14:20

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Hm, I liked this Play With Fire better than in 1989. I thought he sounded more brutal on it back then. Same with Angie (on recent tours), compared to 1990.

He can't sing it like this now. But i agree the overall performance was better recently, better from Keith.

Where he sings ''BUT DON'T PLAY WITH ME BECAUSE YOU'RE PLAYING WITH FIRE''. Itys very weak.

89'
[www.youtube.com]

Hamburg. 2017
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 14:32 by stone4ever.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 12, 2017 19:37

Would be interesting to know why in the heck they dropped Play With Fire?
Played only at the first show, right? And the first show had 21 songs, but has since been whittled down to 20?
At least the setlist hasn't gone down to 19 at any shows yet (or has it?) or even worse down to 18 ala the last *Vegas mini-show.
On the plus side of that *Vegas show, Keith did three songs due to Mick being sick... would be nice to see Keith try something different as I think he still can?
Happy being my favorite Stones song that he sings (and in my top 5 overall of any Stones song) I'm happy it remains, but maybe shake it up just a little bit for a little variety?
Not a complaint or a whine, just a suggestion. smiling smiley

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 12, 2017 19:51

22 songs on the first show. 21 on the second.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: October 12, 2017 20:35

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Hm, I liked this Play With Fire better than in 1989. I thought he sounded more brutal on it back then. Same with Angie (on recent tours), compared to 1990.

He can't sing it like this now. But i agree the overall performance was better recently, better from Keith.

Where he sings ''BUT DON'T PLAY WITH ME BECAUSE YOU'RE PLAYING WITH FIRE''. Itys very weak.

89'
[www.youtube.com]

Hamburg. 2017
[www.youtube.com]

What the heck. What's important is that he's overall brilliant this time, like Dandy said. His singing much more nuanced, the nasal stuff totally gone. Sometimes he even sounds like in 1969 (Under My Thumb, Street Fighting Man). Slowing down his dance moves is perfectly ok with me when it leads to his voice sounding so much better. Hell, and it's not like he's standing almost motionloss in front of the microphone stand like Eddie Vedder or Liam Gallagher either.

Also, you may have noticed that the arrangement of Play With Fire in Hamburg is much more restrained compaired to 1989 and I think Mick has just adjusted his singing accordingly or in other words less "brutal".



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 20:50 by retired_dog.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 21:25

What exactly is meant by "brutal"??

When I hear vocals described as brutal, it's usually in reference to this particular genre:

[www.youtube.com]

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 12, 2017 21:38

Quote
keefriff99
What exactly is meant by "brutal"??

When I hear vocals described as brutal, it's usually in reference to this particular genre:

[www.youtube.com]

That he's not treating the melody with care, merely belting out the lyrics. Angie in 1990, and to a less example PWF in 1989 are examples of that.

He sang it brilliantly in Hamburg, imo.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 21:41

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
keefriff99
What exactly is meant by "brutal"??

When I hear vocals described as brutal, it's usually in reference to this particular genre:

[www.youtube.com]

That he's not treating the melody with care, merely belting out the lyrics. Angie in 1990, and to a less example PWF in 1989 are examples of that.

He sang it brilliantly in Hamburg, imo.
Gotcha...I agree, I prefer 2017.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 22:30

2017 far better than 1990
1990 far better than 1989
1989 far better.....
.............
.............
grinning smiley

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 22:33

And Sweet Virginia tonight ??? smileys with beer

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 12, 2017 22:38

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
stone4ever
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Hm, I liked this Play With Fire better than in 1989. I thought he sounded more brutal on it back then. Same with Angie (on recent tours), compared to 1990.

He can't sing it like this now. But i agree the overall performance was better recently, better from Keith.

Where he sings ''BUT DON'T PLAY WITH ME BECAUSE YOU'RE PLAYING WITH FIRE''. Itys very weak.

89'
[www.youtube.com]

Hamburg. 2017
[www.youtube.com]

What the heck. What's important is that he's overall brilliant this time, like Dandy said. His singing much more nuanced, the nasal stuff totally gone. Sometimes he even sounds like in 1969 (Under My Thumb, Street Fighting Man). Slowing down his dance moves is perfectly ok with me when it leads to his voice sounding so much better. Hell, and it's not like he's standing almost motionloss in front of the microphone stand like Eddie Vedder or Liam Gallagher either.

Also, you may have noticed that the arrangement of Play With Fire in Hamburg is much more restrained compaired to 1989 and I think Mick has just adjusted his singing accordingly or in other words less "brutal".

I miss the real Jagger on both versions but gotta say the 1989 version is horrible. Like he's joking around, even mocking their song. And no, it's not comparable to the growling or slurring 1976 Jagger which I happen like.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 12, 2017 22:47

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Quote
retired_dog
Quote
stone4ever
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Hm, I liked this Play With Fire better than in 1989. I thought he sounded more brutal on it back then. Same with Angie (on recent tours), compared to 1990.

He can't sing it like this now. But i agree the overall performance was better recently, better from Keith.

Where he sings ''BUT DON'T PLAY WITH ME BECAUSE YOU'RE PLAYING WITH FIRE''. Itys very weak.

89'
[www.youtube.com]

Hamburg. 2017
[www.youtube.com]

What the heck. What's important is that he's overall brilliant this time, like Dandy said. His singing much more nuanced, the nasal stuff totally gone. Sometimes he even sounds like in 1969 (Under My Thumb, Street Fighting Man). Slowing down his dance moves is perfectly ok with me when it leads to his voice sounding so much better. Hell, and it's not like he's standing almost motionloss in front of the microphone stand like Eddie Vedder or Liam Gallagher either.

Also, you may have noticed that the arrangement of Play With Fire in Hamburg is much more restrained compaired to 1989 and I think Mick has just adjusted his singing accordingly or in other words less "brutal".

I miss the real Jagger on both versions but gotta say the 1989 version is horrible. Like he's joking around, even mocking their song. And no, it's not comparable to the growling or slurring 1976 Jagger which I happen like.
Maybe so. Sometimes I think he wrote certain lyrics so long ago that he simply can't relate to the mindset he was in and just goes through the motions, or even finds them silly or overly mawkish. I feel like he tried much harder on this current tour, even if he can't sing with the same ease he did 28 years ago.

I don't agree about his mid '70s "singing"...that shit is just painful. I'll listen to live bootlegs from that period for the music but I find his vocals back then to be an atrocity.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 12, 2017 23:03

Not making comparisons to the past other than the original studio version, but I wasn't too fond of his singing on the recent Hamburg version as it seemed a bit forced - attempting to sound too menacing...a bit contrived and/or exaggerated. I figured that might have to do with "first night jitters" and he'd sing it with a bit more subtly after a few shows, but dagnammit they kicked it off the setlist!!!

Haven't checked show thread yet but will right now...maybe they're gonna give it another shot tonight? smiling smiley
Or maybe again sometime this tour is over? confused smiley

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

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