John R. You say:

"They are playing with more energy, concentration, conviction & w/ less reliance on backing musicians - keybs especially ..."

What kind of crap is that? Wow a band is playing the songs with only 5 people playing instruments instead of 20 backing musicians and back up singers! What an accomplishment! Wow they aren't using 2 keyboard players where there should only be one anyway! This calls for a celebration! Who cares that the setlist sucks and they are only doing it for the money this time out as long as they are concentrating. Yes let us reward them for this mediocrity!

Imagine that for $450.00 a chair they are playing with conviction and actually concentrating. We should thank them for this!!!!

Who cares if the setlist sucks? How dare we be critical? We should all open up our wallets and let them urinate on us in exchange for giving them our cash. They are laughing all the way to the bank, probably calling us stupid Americans or something like that.

Ughhhhhh

"Heavy throbber is itching or something like that"

Great, great tour.......if you don't like this tour....I just don't know what to say. They are the Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World.

fuzzbingz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John R. You say:

>
> Imagine that for $450.00 a chair they are playing
> with conviction and actually concentrating. We
> should thank them for this!!!!
>
> Who cares if the setlist sucks? How dare we be
> critical? We should all open up our wallets and
> let them urinate on us in exchange for giving them
> our cash. They are laughing all the way to the
> bank, probably calling us stupid Americans or
> something like that.

Here's one thing I don't understand... all the griping about "ticket prices"...

I've got very good sightline tickets for Soldier Field... 99 bucks

I've got GREAT sightline tickets at Milwaukee... 99 bucks.

BOTH FRONT ROW IN THE SECTION... I've had much worse tickets on prior tours.

If you can't find an enjoyable ticket at these shows for 99 to 170 bucks, then you have a thing about "being up close", and you'll pay for it...

These tickets are in line with what I paid for Voodoo, Security, B2B, Licks, etc.

Of course the best deal I ever got was 10th row Sticky Fingers for around $7.50...

Hey Creedence:

Just have to respond to your analysis of the "Greendale" situation...

I've been to Neil & Crazy Horse shows where the old folkie fans who came for "After The Gold Rush" walked out after being pummeled by feedback...and I've been to shows where Neil was picking a Martin sitting on a stool while the meatheads yelled for "Southern Man."

Now, I'm lucky because I like both extremes and want to see him in all his incarnations. But my question is, what exactly does he owe the audience? My feeling is: an inspired performance, and nothing more. Neil Young, in particular, has made a career of weaving in and out of different styles. I can't believe that older fans such as the ones you describe aren't wise to this. If they're not up to the artistic challenge that he throws out, well...My sense is that people untimately respect and enjoy the mystery of his choices, even when their preconceptions aren't realized.

Having said that, I do not believe that the Stones have exactly the same relationship with their (mass, as opposed to large cult) audience. The Stones are not free to radically reinvent themselves, but boy could they ever stand to experiment with the formula they've been using...I'm still surprised they've let the structure and pacing of the shows get this pat.

Wouldn't you be thrilled and have more respect for the Stones if they did "Start Me Up," "Jumpin' Jack Flash," "Brown Sugar," and "Honky Tonk"...and then cut into some tough blues covers, key album tracks and some new tunes? If they were hot, it wouldn't take more than four rotating warhorses a night to thoroughly win a stadium crowd while still exciting close observers. And more importantly, exciting the Stones themselves...

good points, my good Reverand....

I believe one of the biggest problems here is that the set list is down to 20 songs.On past tours they did play Miss You & Honkey Tonk Women etc. but,they played 23,24,or 25 songs.These extra songs were the songs not previously done on stage & the rarely performed songs : Let It Bleed,Down The Road Apiece,Waiting On A Friend in '81 ; 2000 Light Years From Home,Factory Girl,One Hit in '89/'90 ;
Monkey Man,It's All Over Now,I Can't Get Next To You,Connection,Shine A Light in
'94/'95 ; Sister Morphine,All About You,She's A Rainbow,Wanna Hold You,Crazy Mama
in '97/'98 ; Some Girls,You Got The Silver,Get Off Of My Cloud,Moonlight Mile,Moon Is Up,I Got The Blues in '99 despite 20 or 21 song set lists ; Can't You Hear Me Knocking,Loving Cup,Dance Pt.1~2,Heart Of Stone in '02/'03 - notice the rare songs decreased as the set list got shorter in around August '03.That's just off the top of my head.Some of these song titles may not sound as rare now but,they were rare or never performed songs at the time.I would like to add that I don't buy into this excuse about the first show in any given city has to be 90% warhorses.In '99 they only did one concert in many cities and the set list was interesting and not repeating the majority of a set list from a previous tour.Even when it was the first of two shows there were quite a few rarities.Just because it is the first concert in the city in '05 doesn't mean they haven't been there repeatedly for decades on end.

Songs like Sway are not these crazy unknown tunes they are made out to be.How many copies of Sticky Fingers have sold?Quite a few.Would it kill them to play one rare song a night?This looks like it is too much to ask for in addition to the one rotating non-warhorse (Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo,Bitch,Live With Me,Ain't Too Proud To Beg,Rocks Off).Before I get attacked,I would like to add that I am very pro-Stones including modern day Stones and have defended them time after time but,the cover of the Ruthless People soundtrack comes to mind : the big screw.The Stones,in or around the time of the press conference to launch this tour mentioned club shows,different set lists for the different venue types & pulling more rare and never played songs out of their huge catalog.They are screwing people over,they flat out lied.This can't be argued.This is tantamount to fraud or in some cases legal grand larceny.

I can only speak for myself, but I feel as if ticket prices and ticketmaster/fan club hassles have dampened a lot of enthusiasm. Additionally, the set list does not look too inspired. I haven't seen them yet on this tour, but am going to MSG next week, so I will be able to form a more accurate opinion after, but for now, I'm not feeling the joy and excitement that I've been used to feeling since my first show in '81!

After reading thru several pages...one HUGE assumption that I totally disagree with is the bit about the younger audience the Stones should/would/do want to impress would prefer Sway to HTW or another unknown to a big hit...

OHHH C'MON do you really believe that? The young people that are there are attending just for the big hits, the stuff they heard their parents listen to when they were younger! They are not there to hear a song that never got radio airplay that almost falls apart in performance!

These young people that you pre-suppose are really there have grown up on didgital lip synched performances! Do you really think that if they heard one of the HOF performances that nearly fell apart from Licks they would say,"wow, never heard that but so glad that they went out on a limb with a rarity. Aren't you impressed with the way they almost fell apart but pulled it back together?" My God, the trouble with us regular posters on these boards is that we are selfishly projecting our own desires upon the psyches of 90% of the crowd that will see the Stones less in their lifetime than most of us will see in a single tour.

The tickets sell, the guys get richer, THEY ARE THE ENTERTAINMENT PROFESSIONALS, most of us would have trouble drawing attention to ourselves on a street corner naked.We may not like the set list, we may hate the fact that our rebellious youth is fading, and so is that of our heros, but they are now 4 business men doing really well at what they do.So say that we are unhappy , but quit supposing that all those other ticketholders would prefer to see the show that you would. If that were true, the guys would alreday be doing small blues clubs sittng on stools.

I think some people have seen/are going to see The Stones 'too many' times. Familiarity breeds contempt. I mean how long can anything entertain you? Eight shows on this tour alone! Jeez, I've only seen them 4 times in my life! You're milking the cow dry.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

There are some valid points here but,keep in mind this isn't ZZ Top here with about 15 good songs.If I went to one of their shows,I would expect to hear all 15 because,they don't have very much more worth playing.If I went to an Aerosmith concert for example I might expect to miss a hit or two in favor of a rarity that I may or may not know.It wouldn't ruin the whole thing for me.I might actually enjoy it.This is the Rolling Stones we're talking about here who have been putting out quality music for just about 43 years.The stadiums I went to for the Stones concerts had young people but,they were not the majority.Anyway they might prefer a more modern song like Too Tight over a rare old song.They might not.Who knows?Everyone could be happy with the right mix.Like I said,they have always done it in the past + they actually drew more people when they did.How many times did they sell out Shea Stadium in N.Y. city in '89?I don't remember the huge protests to Play With Fire,Undercover Of The Night,Dead Flowers,One Hit and 2000 Light Years From Home + the new songs and the cover.In fact, everyone I talked to who went to their first Stones concert between '81 and early '03 have said it is/was the best concert they have ever seen "despite" these rarities and new songs.Why should they stop with the rare or never played songs now?
I hope I'm wrong but,they seem to just not give a _.

The Stones do not struggle with every rare song they play.There were many versions of No Expectations on tours since '94 that were done flawlessly to name one.I believe they only struggle with the most difficult rare songs for the most part & even sometimes they actually nail them.

My honest gut feeling ??

The link below is to pictures of the crowd at the Moncton show, not people "attending by setlist..."...

My gut feeling is that they're having a FANTASTIC TIME...

See for yourself:

[news.yahoo.com]

True,but,people have had good times on other tours which had more surprises in the set list.Just one more song could ensure that even more people would have a good time.

The Stones hearts are right where they should be, I wonder about some of their 'fans' though.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

I'm not so certain about this.Is at least a couple of songs I've never witnessed in concert too much to ask for in a two hour plus show?Especially when considering all of the possibilities and the cost of tickets and the claims of the band themselves.Look at Springsteen's set lists.

I may be opening myself to abuse, but the Stones have never tinkered much with setlists. The longer they play the more material they have to choose from and it would appear they kind of forget many of these songs and just forget about diverse setlists offerings. Not an excuse mind you, but setlists have never changed much over the past 35 years. The easy solution is to vary the old hits, mix in new songs and throw the hard core fans a bone with something of a surprise at eveery show. Bottom line is these cats have never changed much around and we have to accept this. Any time they want to change though I am open to hear it. Don't hold your breath waiting for the tried and true formula to change. It got them here right?

they are doing a bit of a change on most nights,rocks off popped in last night,aint to proud to beg in detroit,rambler,paint it black,before that as well as live with me.i have a feeling(and i dont agree)they realize there are alot of new fans who might not new the new stuff and some of the deeper cut classics.ie dance little sister,sway,mothers little helper etc.so they dont want to loose them for half the show.but they can certainly throw in 1 or 2 lost classics to keep the die hards happy.damn the new albums so good,just do all of that and 5 hits and i would be thrilled.

john scialfa

I felt that they were lacking energy during the Bridges tour, going thru the motions (with the exception of Out Of Control) even though the setlists were pretty good on the 4 shows I caught.

LICKS I caught them 3 times and I thought the energy was tremendous, even though I could do without Satisfaction & IORR for evry show.

Going to MSG ON 9/13 and then Giants Stadium on 9/15. I know what I am getting at the Stadium show, hoping for a surprise or 2 at MSG....Which for some reason, when they play MSG they just catch fire.

I'll let you know.

Milo, NYC
Like an Ice Cream Cone

Here's a cure for boredom and victimization: Go to ONE freakin' show. Just one. That's all most people go to, for crying out loud! The STones know that, and would laugh at the crying on this board - if they bothered to check it out - from the people who are going to, like, 25 shows and expect a different show every freakin' time. Imagine if we all just went to one show, the prices would be lower and the venues smaller. You guys are your own worst enemy. Come on! Think about it! (Oh, by the way, love you guys!)

right on bigbang.

my gut feeling is
i cant wait to see them again i know they will rock.i have only seen the stones twice
we should be happy that they are still doing what they do best playing rocknroll

When they hit the stage on Tuesday it will wipe out the last two years of my life which have been crap. It'll connect me to a lot of good times at all the other shows I've been too (I got a strange feeling of looking over my own shoulder at Chicago 2002).

My gut feeling is that the Stones are touring to make money, and that's all there is to it. They are professional artists who still draw large crowds and they put on a fantastic show. They are much more interested in putting on a credible performance than they are in playing obscure songs for diehard Stones fans. I think this is all very fine. They are a commercial success and they should reap the profits. They would be stupid not to. I paid over $400 to see them at Hartford, which was the only time I ever paid for a really good seat at a Stones concert. When I reflect on other things I spend money on for entertainment, travel etc., I have to say that I got my money's worth with the Stones. In fact, I got my money's worth about three songs into the show, and the rest was a fantastic bonus. I can't wait to see them again in Durham in October, and if they play the same songs I won't care at all.

I have been anticipating Tuesday's show in exactly the same way, since rumors of a tour began circulating. I was trying to describe to someone yesterday how the music we love can be such an important part of our lives, exactly because in the midst of all the bad stuff that can happen to us, it can be counted on to lift us above all the crap.

Some people here are missing my point.I don't expect them to come up with a totally new show every time I go to a concert on the same tour.I do expect them to come up with a new show other than four new songs for each different tour.
Why?I expect this because each tour before this was at least a little unique with songs from the catalog,not just four new songs and one cover and one silly rare song.
These are facts.They have not,I repeat have not played entirely the same show for 35 years.Yes, there are almost ten songs that they play at just about every concert & a few others that get played at most shows but,this used to make up only half of the sets.The # of different songs that have been played can't be argued.Yes there could have been many more but,I'll be happy with a few more.
Plain and simple : they used to play ('81-'97 + '75[21 or so])23,24,or 25 songs on tours promoting a new studio album.On this tour,less than 10 shows in,they are playing 20.
The difference is rare/never performed songs have been almost entirely or entirely,respectively, left out.Fact.Not opinion.My opinion : this is no good.
What true Rolling Stones "fan" wants the # of songs not done in concert to remain the same?

My gut feeling????...pretty much the same old same old. Really a shame after seeing them as many times as i have since '72

Considering this is my "first tour"....my gut feeling is that it rocked! On stage seats...in Moncton...80,000+ fans....new and old....I couldn't stop screaming when I heard the first notes to "start me up" and saw Mick and the boys live...in front of me...singing songs that took me back to some of the best times in my life! No one is getting any younger...and the boys can still rock!

When I think of the pure pleasure it gave me to see these guys "do their thang"....I just smile to myself, like I have a secret. I SAW THE ROLLING STONES LIVE! How could I be disappointed by the performance Mick gives with all of that energy jumping around the stage? The man is over 60 and he is a bloody marvel! As well the rest of the touring band ....they can still "rock the place".

Setlists, cost of tickets, concerts past...the way you felt the first time you saw them....remember....it was all worth it....I wouldn't want to change the way I felt going to my first Rolling Stones concert last Saturday, Sept 3/2005. Enjoy them while we still have them....after much thought I got tickets for Montreal....thanks for the chance to express myself....I think it's so cool to have IORR available to give this feedback!

mick & keith eat this shit up

What's your take on this chippy?