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Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: March 14, 2017 20:28

Quote
keefgotsoul
Regarding the "lack of discipline" that doxa mentioned about Keith on CE...

I'd say that a lack of discipline is just the thing Jagger needs! Mick needs to come out of his comfort zone and not be afraid to get a little sloppy. That is after all, what made the Stones so great in my opinion. All the best Stones moments show a major lack of discipline and a general rough around the edges charm. Gimme the Glimmer Twins a little juiced up and sloppy instead of sterile any day.

Yes, and that is partially why Blue and Lonesome is what it is - recorded in two (or three) days without over-analyzing and/or overproducing - basically spitting out cover tunes without much discipline involved.
Now if they can apply that strategy to a new album of good originals - preferably written as a team - then there's no reason it won't result in something of great value. Crosseyed Heart + Blue and Lonesome = possibly the next great Stones album imo.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Date: March 14, 2017 20:41

Quote
Doxa

There are songs in CROSS-EYED HEART that have originality as much as there is originality in the next BigMac.

While I agree with your statements on CROSS-EYED HEART I'm a bit confused about your enthusiasm re Blue&Lonesome. To me that superfluous album feels like 12 BigMacs in a row.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: March 14, 2017 20:47

Metaphors are going wild here! 12 Big-Macs in a row! I kind of agree with you though... One tends bo enough for me. Once every 6 months...

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: March 14, 2017 20:48

Quote
Doxa
What is this romantic bullshit about ”originality”? That technically some half-baked sketches based on old cliches and way-too circulated patterns is credited to some artist releasing a new product tells something about ”originality” or ”creativity”? My ass. I guess there is some sort of romantic myth based on the golden days of rock music that the performers are ”artists” that supposedly should release some novel ideas (in the form of ”songs”) every once in a while, no matter how long time the supposed artist has lost any inspiration to have anything to 'say' or 'add' what one has already done. To be "alive"? The 'new' songs are like some mcdonalds burgers the customers and producers are eager to have in market, no matter both sides have lost the point why to do it. It is just a habit, a custom. The romantic drive for 'authenticity', 'novelty', oh yeah, let's even talk about even the 'geniouses'.

There are songs in CROSS-EYED HEART that have originality as much as there is originality in the next BigMac. And as much artistic novelty. What there actually is a product based solely on the brand consisted of the personality and idiosyncratic musicianship of Keith Richards. If you like that brand – that is: you are so familiar with it – you most likely enjoy the product. In that scenario one starts to describe it by terms like its all about ”feeling” and ”sincerity” - in the vocabulary of Keith Richards brand believers that excuses the over-all laziness, the drive for easy musical decisions, the lack of discipline, mediocre, sloppy musicianship... The brand is strongly rooted that it excuses almost anything. It is the best brand in the history of rock and roll. It is actually so good that anyone buying it has in the case of it lost about any musical criterion established in everywhere else. It goes so deep that if the ”Keef” farts loud enough that will be an act of ”feeling”. So it is no a big surprise that to see the ”greatness” of CROSS-EYED HEART is a cult of of 'chosen ones' – for the ears and eyes trained by decades devotion. For the rest it is almost impossible to understand what there is more than an old legend doing the minimum, the obvious and playing for the brand. A tiresome experience to listen more than two-three times. But LIFE is much better and enjoyable product of the brand. No wonder it sold much more than the album.

The greatness, if there is any, of BLUE&LONESOME is that it doesn't have any ”artistic” or ”creative” pretensions. Just the band concentrating playing some old covers as good as they can. The miracle of it is that they end up sounding surprisingly inspired and probably fresher than they have for decades on record (or elsewhere). What is even more, and actually unbelieveable taking the ancient non-trendy form of Chicago blues, they succeeded sounding surprisingly good for non-devotees. Probably that kind of music is rooted in every rock fan's DNA, but actually making that sound good and catchy is almost unhearable in recent history. No excuses is needed, not even saying 'hey, it's the Stones, man', but just let the music in terms of its own do the talking. For many people - which explains its good numbers - it is good despite being made by the way too obvious and old brand called the Stones.

So forget all the bullshit about ”originality”, ”authenticity” and whatever romantic notions. Skip the creditions and just listen the music. That only matters.

- Doxa, a retired old grumpy man

Doxa can you please come back and explain to us exactly what you expected when you purchased your Keef CD. What sort of change in direction was you expecting from Crosseyed Heart ???. Did you expect him to come over sounding sort of Beyonce or something.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: HMS ()
Date: March 14, 2017 21:37

B&L will never win a prize for it´s "creativity" or "originality". Forget about that terms when listening to it. It´s not WHAT they do - it´s THE WAY they do it. They obviously had more fun doing it than they had when recording their last couple of albums of original material. The band sounds tight and refreshed, that is what makes B&L exciting, not so much the songs. I was afraid a Blues-album would be a very boring kind of thing, but much to my surprise B&L isn´t boring at all. It´s fun. I love it. Great interplay and Mick shines all over the place. Did they add anything new to the Blues genre? Definitely NO. Did they deliver an enjoyable fresh sounding passionate album? Definitely YES, imo.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: March 14, 2017 21:39

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
Doxa

There are songs in CROSS-EYED HEART that have originality as much as there is originality in the next BigMac.

While I agree with your statements on CROSS-EYED HEART I'm a bit confused about your enthusiasm re Blue&Lonesome. To me that superfluous album feels like 12 BigMacs in a row.

If there are songs on Crosseyed Heart that have the originality of a Big Mac, then by that logic one must conclude that all of the songs on Blue and Lonesome have the originality of a digested Big Mac.
Not to say those blues covers are all crap, but the fact is they are simply blues covers that have already been written and recorded - with all the originals being the superior versions imo.
Similar to a movie remake, or a photocopy of a painting, or a clone of something that already exists. Nice effort, but they're pre-manufactured, and other than the signature style of the 'copiers', not much creative/artistic input or thought went into them.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: hopkins ()
Date: March 14, 2017 23:05

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-14 23:25 by hopkins.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: runrudolph ()
Date: March 15, 2017 01:55

Quote
HMS
B&L will never win a prize for it´s "creativity" or "originality". Forget about that terms when listening to it. It´s not WHAT they do - it´s THE WAY they do it. They obviously had more fun doing it than they had when recording their last couple of albums of original material. The band sounds tight and refreshed, that is what makes B&L exciting, not so much the songs. I was afraid a Blues-album would be a very boring kind of thing, but much to my surprise B&L isn´t boring at all. It´s fun. I love it. Great interplay and Mick shines all over the place. Did they add anything new to the Blues genre? Definitely NO. Did they deliver an enjoyable fresh sounding passionate album? Definitely YES, imo.

hot smiley>grinning smiley<drinking smiley
Jeroen

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: March 15, 2017 02:53

not even close...B & L is such a revelation that they can still play, record and produce something so energetic and pure. What a gift so late in their career.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: hopkins ()
Date: March 15, 2017 07:18

"To celebrate the imminent release of The Stones blues covers album ‘Blue & Lonesome’, Not Now are releasing an album of original blues classics that have been covered by The Stones over the years, including original versions of tracks featured on the new Stones album. You may know the artists on this comprehensive package of blues greats and you will certainly know the songs. They are the songs Mick, Keith and Brian Jones grew up listening to. All the blues giants are commemorated in this collection, including Muddy Waters, Little Walter and Howlin’ Wolf."


[www.youtube.com]

Got Blues If You Want It

1. Howlin' Wolf Little Baby
2. 00:02:46 Little Walter I Hate To See You Go
3. 00:05:04 Muddy Waters Mannish Boy
4. 00:07:56 Otis Rush I Can’t Quit You Baby
5. 00:11:03 Jimmy Reed Honest I Do
6. 00:13:45 Chuck Berry Confessin' The Blues
7. 00:15:54 Lightnin' Slim Hoo Doo Blues
8. 00:18:14 Ray Charles I’m Movin’ On
9. 00:20:44 Muddy Waters I Just Want To Make Love To You
10. 00:23:30 Little Walter My Babe
11. 00:26:03 Robert Johnson Stop Breakin’ Down Blues
12. 00:28:20 Howlin' Wolf The Red Rooster
13. 00:30:44 Big Bill Broonzy Tell Me Baby
14. 00:33:44 Dale Hawkins Suzie Q
15. 00:35:59 The Will Bradley - Johnny Guarnieri Band Down The Road A Piece
16. 00:38:50 The Staple Singer This May Be The Last Time
17. 00:40:59 Muddy Waters I Can't Be Satisfied
18. 00:43:42 Bo Diddley Road Runner
19. 00:46:25 Bo Diddley I’m A Man
20. 00:49:12 Wynonie Harris Confessin’ The Blues
21. 00:51:58 Howlin' Wolf I Ain’t Superstitious
22. 00:54:48 Muddy Waters Look What You’ve Done
23. 00:57:11 Jimmy Reed Little Rain
24. 01:00:22 Slim Harpo I'm A King Bee
25. 01:03:16 Little Walter I Got To Go
26. 01:06:01 Bo Diddley Who Do You Love
27. 01:08:32 Muddy Waters I Want To Be Loved
28. 01:11:07 Robert Johnson Love In Vain
29. 01:13:28 Big Bill Broonzy Keys To The Highway
30. 01:16:36 Howlin' Wolf Just Like I Treat You
31. 01:19:24 Little Walter Just Your Fool
32. 01:21:49 Eddie Taylor Ride Em On Down
33. 01:24:40 Muddy Waters Still A Fool
34. 01:27:56 Jay McShann Confessin’ The Blues
35. 01:30:49 John Lee Hooker (Money) I Need Some Money
36. 01:33:14 Chuck Berry Don’t You Lie To Me



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-15 07:50 by hopkins.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Date: March 15, 2017 11:21

Most of the ancient roots/folk/traditional music in different countries and continents is being passed on and interpreted by new, rather than trying to invent the wheel again.

In these environments, the harcores are pretty strict when it comes to ancient folk music. If you try to write new songs, you will get bashed hard.

It might be that the blues is becoming old enough as an art form – with enough old and strong standards to head in this direction in the years to come. It might be the interpretation of the blues that is important, not to try to write new songs.

Anyways, imo the Stones did it wonderfully, recording an album of varied blues cover numbers. They are passing it on, and that's important for a band of their size and influence to other musicians.

Because of all this, the argument of «just an album of decent covers» is moot, imo. The important thing is to awake younger musicians and remind them of this treasure (the old songs), and enjoy the Stones doing them in the process.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 15, 2017 12:20

Because of all this, the argument of «just an album of decent
covers» is moot, imo. The important thing is to awake younger musicians
and remind them of this treasure (the old songs), and enjoy the Stones
doing them in the process.


Hey that's spot on Dandeeeee ..... the only bitch with B&L is that they
maybe coulda maybe dropped one of the Lil Walter tracks and slotted in
something from Jimmy Rogers like Money Marbles And Chalk or a dirty work-over of What Have I Done ......



ROCKMAN

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 15, 2017 12:33

.....or a Bo Diddley number .............



ROCKMAN

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: March 15, 2017 12:38

It's a tough call to say whether B&L would have been even better or not so good had it been a longer planned & less spontaneous project.

The odd acoustic blues or a Keith vocal might have also have spiced it up a bit...but at the same time they might have lost something by over thnking it.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Date: March 15, 2017 12:41

The Crosseyed Heart-track (or a similar one) would have made a nice album closer, imo.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 15, 2017 12:41

Charlie mentioned in some interview that if a song didn't work they dropped it and moved on to the next ..... wonder what other numbers they had a crack at .....



ROCKMAN

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Date: March 15, 2017 12:42

Quote
Rockman
Charlie mentioned in some interview that if a song didn't work they dropped it and moved on to the next ..... wonder what other numbers they had a crack at .....

Did we spot parts of a couple of titles in one of the pictures?

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: March 15, 2017 12:43

thumbs up Yeah..interesting thought that.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: March 15, 2017 12:49

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The Crosseyed Heart-track (or a similar one) would have made a nice album closer, imo.

Yes indeed.

I like the way Petrol Blues closes the the SG bonus album .

It says ,

"all right children...that's it...everything's switched off...time for bed."smiling smiley

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 15, 2017 12:51



Yeah but maybe they are two Stones originals they were working
on before moving over to the blues tracks .......................



ROCKMAN

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Date: March 15, 2017 13:57

Could very well be. Interesting, just the same.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: March 15, 2017 18:42

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The important thing is to awake younger musicians and remind them of this treasure (the old songs), and enjoy the Stones doing them in the process.

Absolutely, and I've stated the same sentiment even before this album was released. For those who are unfamiliar with the blues (and the original versions), be they young or old, this just might spark their attention to dig deep into a great musical genre - the Blues. Just like the Stones did in the beginning, they are turning on a lot of people to some great music through these covers. Then there's some of us who are familiar with the blues (and the original versions) who can simply listen to it for what it is - an album of decent covers by a great band. This quote from Mick has become sort of a broken record the last couple of months, but in my mind it's become sort of mantra:

"I mean what's the point in listening to us doing "I'm A King Bee" when you can listen to Slim Harpo doing it"? - Mick

Some might answer 'because 'it's enjoyable and we like the Stones', others might answer 'who the heck is Slim Harpo'?, and still others might answer with 'good question Mick, what's the point? I prefer the originals'!

I think hopkins' post below is on point, and maybe some who enjoyed Blue and Lonesome - yet were never fully aware of the blues - will hunker down and absorb some of the true greatness from the past. And even for those who are familiar with the blues would have to agree this is a great list!

Quote
hopkins
"To celebrate the imminent release of The Stones blues covers album ‘Blue & Lonesome’, Not Now are releasing an album of original blues classics that have been covered by The Stones over the years, including original versions of tracks featured on the new Stones album. You may know the artists on this comprehensive package of blues greats and you will certainly know the songs. They are the songs Mick, Keith and Brian Jones grew up listening to. All the blues giants are commemorated in this collection, including Muddy Waters, Little Walter and Howlin’ Wolf."


[www.youtube.com]

Got Blues If You Want It

1. Howlin' Wolf Little Baby
2. 00:02:46 Little Walter I Hate To See You Go
3. 00:05:04 Muddy Waters Mannish Boy
4. 00:07:56 Otis Rush I Can’t Quit You Baby
5. 00:11:03 Jimmy Reed Honest I Do
6. 00:13:45 Chuck Berry Confessin' The Blues
7. 00:15:54 Lightnin' Slim Hoo Doo Blues
8. 00:18:14 Ray Charles I’m Movin’ On
9. 00:20:44 Muddy Waters I Just Want To Make Love To You
10. 00:23:30 Little Walter My Babe
11. 00:26:03 Robert Johnson Stop Breakin’ Down Blues
12. 00:28:20 Howlin' Wolf The Red Rooster
13. 00:30:44 Big Bill Broonzy Tell Me Baby
14. 00:33:44 Dale Hawkins Suzie Q
15. 00:35:59 The Will Bradley - Johnny Guarnieri Band Down The Road A Piece
16. 00:38:50 The Staple Singer This May Be The Last Time
17. 00:40:59 Muddy Waters I Can't Be Satisfied
18. 00:43:42 Bo Diddley Road Runner
19. 00:46:25 Bo Diddley I’m A Man
20. 00:49:12 Wynonie Harris Confessin’ The Blues
21. 00:51:58 Howlin' Wolf I Ain’t Superstitious
22. 00:54:48 Muddy Waters Look What You’ve Done
23. 00:57:11 Jimmy Reed Little Rain
24. 01:00:22 Slim Harpo I'm A King Bee
25. 01:03:16 Little Walter I Got To Go
26. 01:06:01 Bo Diddley Who Do You Love
27. 01:08:32 Muddy Waters I Want To Be Loved
28. 01:11:07 Robert Johnson Love In Vain
29. 01:13:28 Big Bill Broonzy Keys To The Highway
30. 01:16:36 Howlin' Wolf Just Like I Treat You
31. 01:19:24 Little Walter Just Your Fool
32. 01:21:49 Eddie Taylor Ride Em On Down
33. 01:24:40 Muddy Waters Still A Fool
34. 01:27:56 Jay McShann Confessin’ The Blues
35. 01:30:49 John Lee Hooker (Money) I Need Some Money
36. 01:33:14 Chuck Berry Don’t You Lie To Me

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: March 15, 2017 20:23

And the top songs listed
'Drive Me Too Hard'
'Get Out of My Way'
I googled to see if old blues... no.

I hereby trademark those titles as Glimmers
you may pay your small fee in person...

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 15, 2017 23:21

Okay I got a buck for ya
so where do you live ?????????????



ROCKMAN

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: March 15, 2017 23:31

Quote
Rockman
Okay I got a buck for ya
so where do you live ?????????????

I think I'm coming to your house w/ all the water sunsets you present
***smileys with beer***

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 15, 2017 23:34

Oh in that case
I'll give you two bucks ....
Oh and they are sunrises actually



ROCKMAN

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: March 16, 2017 03:00

Quote
HMS
Quote
stone4ever
Quote
HMS
There are songs on CH that sound rather demo-like than finished takes... Some tracks seem to have no melody at all... some are almost ruined by unfitting fade-outs... some are plain boring... Personally I don´t like the background vocals and the sound of the drums...

Yes there are three or four very good songs, but somehow even those songs get kind of boring with time. Too many ballads, not enough catchy tunes. A solid but average album that gets more praise than it deserves imo.


Haha this from a man who thinks Dirty Work is great.

DW isn´t great but very good. And better by far than CH.

Stone4ever, obviously some wires never connected... hence the lack of quality.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: March 16, 2017 03:04

Bob Dylan - Jokerman




edit: oops posted in wrong thread, but what the hell I'll leave it here anyway.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-16 07:05 by Hairball.

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: March 16, 2017 03:24

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
HMS
Quote
stone4ever
Quote
HMS
There are songs on CH that sound rather demo-like than finished takes... Some tracks seem to have no melody at all... some are almost ruined by unfitting fade-outs... some are plain boring... Personally I don´t like the background vocals and the sound of the drums...

Yes there are three or four very good songs, but somehow even those songs get kind of boring with time. Too many ballads, not enough catchy tunes. A solid but average album that gets more praise than it deserves imo.


Haha this from a man who thinks Dirty Work is great.

DW isn´t great but very good. And better by far than CH.

Stone4ever, obviously some wires never connected... hence the lack of quality.

Sorry Gasslight not sure what you mean ?

Re: Blue and Lonesome vs Crosseyed Heart
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: March 16, 2017 12:18

Quote
hopkins
"To celebrate the imminent release of The Stones blues covers album ‘Blue & Lonesome’, Not Now are releasing an album of original blues classics that have been covered by The Stones over the years, including original versions of tracks featured on the new Stones album. You may know the artists on this comprehensive package of blues greats and you will certainly know the songs. They are the songs Mick, Keith and Brian Jones grew up listening to. All the blues giants are commemorated in this collection, including Muddy Waters, Little Walter and Howlin’ Wolf."


[www.youtube.com]

Got Blues If You Want It

1. Howlin' Wolf Little Baby
2. 00:02:46 Little Walter I Hate To See You Go
3. 00:05:04 Muddy Waters Mannish Boy
4. 00:07:56 Otis Rush I Can’t Quit You Baby
5. 00:11:03 Jimmy Reed Honest I Do
6. 00:13:45 Chuck Berry Confessin' The Blues
7. 00:15:54 Lightnin' Slim Hoo Doo Blues
8. 00:18:14 Ray Charles I’m Movin’ On
9. 00:20:44 Muddy Waters I Just Want To Make Love To You
10. 00:23:30 Little Walter My Babe
11. 00:26:03 Robert Johnson Stop Breakin’ Down Blues
12. 00:28:20 Howlin' Wolf The Red Rooster
13. 00:30:44 Big Bill Broonzy Tell Me Baby
14. 00:33:44 Dale Hawkins Suzie Q
15. 00:35:59 The Will Bradley - Johnny Guarnieri Band Down The Road A Piece
16. 00:38:50 The Staple Singer This May Be The Last Time
17. 00:40:59 Muddy Waters I Can't Be Satisfied
18. 00:43:42 Bo Diddley Road Runner
19. 00:46:25 Bo Diddley I’m A Man
20. 00:49:12 Wynonie Harris Confessin’ The Blues
21. 00:51:58 Howlin' Wolf I Ain’t Superstitious
22. 00:54:48 Muddy Waters Look What You’ve Done
23. 00:57:11 Jimmy Reed Little Rain
24. 01:00:22 Slim Harpo I'm A King Bee
25. 01:03:16 Little Walter I Got To Go
26. 01:06:01 Bo Diddley Who Do You Love
27. 01:08:32 Muddy Waters I Want To Be Loved
28. 01:11:07 Robert Johnson Love In Vain
29. 01:13:28 Big Bill Broonzy Keys To The Highway
30. 01:16:36 Howlin' Wolf Just Like I Treat You
31. 01:19:24 Little Walter Just Your Fool
32. 01:21:49 Eddie Taylor Ride Em On Down
33. 01:24:40 Muddy Waters Still A Fool
34. 01:27:56 Jay McShann Confessin’ The Blues
35. 01:30:49 John Lee Hooker (Money) I Need Some Money
36. 01:33:14 Chuck Berry Don’t You Lie To Me

Cool list! Thanks for posting!

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