Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

Yes Ron does flutter up on that high note towards the end of the solo, but I think we need to keep in mind that Ronnie is playing with a very organic, clean sound ... he has virtually no sustain ...

It is interesting to check his various phases. Like Hopkins said - his early sound with the Faces is downright unique. That dirt he got on "Stay with me", "Too Bad", Debris - actually the entire "Blind Horse" album ...

Sorry for chopping up your post a bit!

Sure Ronnie's rhythm sound with the Stones in 75 was somehow cleaner than what he used during the Faces years, but me thinks that that has much to do with the fact that with the FAces he was alone, while with the stones he had to blend into Keith's sound.

Au contraire his stones 75 lead sound was quite heavy, and very similar to his Faces tone. I have in mind his solos on the slow numbers - Angie and Horses - my personal lead tone of reference!!! I don't think it was pure tube distortion. Sounds slightly processed to me.

C

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Ronnie kills it here. The Buffalo-version isn't my favourite, mainly due to the sound, the mix (Ronnie too up front) and the reversed channels.

Non-melodic? I can't remember that the untouchable original had melodic solos on it. One of the best songs recorded - ever.

This one is really great. Timing problems? Put down the crack pipe!

If you want to hear fluid soloing which make melodic sense from Ronnie go listen to Wild Horses from Knebworth or Hand Of Fate from Paris 1976. As I've said, this Buffalo Gimme Shelter is not bad, but also nothing to get carried away about.

It's interesting that every time Ronnie plays a halfway decent solo, there are people who propel this into highs that are simply not justified.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
...And btw, both Mick Taylor and Ronnie squeeze out all the notes to be found in the pentatonic box - albeit differently. Their focuses are different: Ronnie listens to the band, and tosses in a little tiara here and there. Taylor takes over the band while soloing.

Both approaches work.

Spot on

video: [www.youtube.com]

Ft Worth - June24, 1972

I dont hear any tiaras from Ronnie more like rusty barbwires thrown out randomly in a hurricane.

And sometimes it works but not on this one. I think he was better in 1981 and 1982 when he did more fills and short leads rather than solos. His staccato style is great on some songs like his very own Hey Negrita.

Quote
Redhotcarpet
I dont hear any tiaras from Ronnie more like rusty barbwires thrown out randomly in a hurricane.

And sometimes it works but not on this one. I think he was better in 1981 and 1982 when he did more fills and short leads rather than solos. His staccato style is great on some songs like his very own Hey Negrita.

I didn't think they played Gimme Shelter many times in 81' 82'
Curious that you think Ronnie played GS or anything else better in those years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-14 19:22 by stone4ever.

Quote
Redhotcarpet
video: [www.youtube.com]

Ft Worth - June24, 1972

beyond magic; into brilliance, then beyond that. into perfection where it sits forever above the rest of creation. if you're talkin' funky drivin' devastatingly perfect rock and roll that is...imho..
and just one of many...charlies good tonight innit he?
nicky too; i mean no big deal i guess; it's the difference between 7 or so actual rolling stones directly responsible for this and the recordings of it...
and the 3 to 3 and half rolling stones the next year and there after...well four when bill was still there. but that's a long long time ago now.
thanks for the link; kinda fun..not even close to my fave track with this outfit but as far as a lead guitar goes...well taylor could pull this off any timne of day or night; it's brilliant brilliant but not even out of the oridnary or truly special for what he consistently did imo.
wembley 73 just for fun:
[www.youtube.com]

but really THIS is what I'm really talking about. don't even skip a second all thru including the wait at the beginning; THIS is what i'm talkin' about and i don't see why i should change my frame of reference. i know what good is i know what pretthy good is; i know what ok is...i know what off the wall briliant is...
[www.youtube.com]

Keith too OF COURSE. VERY MUCH KEITH TOO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-15 05:14 by hopkins.

Quote
liddas

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

Yes Ron does flutter up on that high note towards the end of the solo, but I think we need to keep in mind that Ronnie is playing with a very organic, clean sound ... he has virtually no sustain ...

It is interesting to check his various phases. Like Hopkins said - his early sound with the Faces is downright unique. That dirt he got on "Stay with me", "Too Bad", Debris - actually the entire "Blind Horse" album ...

Sorry for chopping up your post a bit!

Sure Ronnie's rhythm sound with the Stones in 75 was somehow cleaner than what he used during the Faces years, but me thinks that that has much to do with the fact that with the FAces he was alone, while with the stones he had to blend into Keith's sound.

Au contraire his stones 75 lead sound was quite heavy, and very similar to his Faces tone. I have in mind his solos on the slow numbers - Angie and Horses - my personal lead tone of reference!!! I don't think it was pure tube distortion. Sounds slightly processed to me.

C

True. You know, I have wondered if his Zemaitis, the metal silver one, has somepre-amps in it; or even f/x. Sort of like Bo Diddley's guitar.

This version is louder , sometimes i wonder if Mick Taylor is the best Guitarist in the world, most melodic for sure. I know Taylor and Richards are the best combo in the world. It beggars belief they didn't use Taylor to play on GS on the 50th anniversary shows, that tired shambles GS has become needed a lift that Taylor would have delivered.
[www.youtube.com]

Quote
stone4ever
This version is louder , sometimes i wonder if Mick Taylor is the best Guitarist in the world, most melodic for sure. I know Taylor and Richards are the best combo in the world. It beggars belief they didn't use Taylor to play on GS on the 50th anniversary shows, that tired shambles GS has become needed a lift that Taylor would have delivered.
[www.youtube.com]

It is this very post that makes me wonder - so what exactly is left? because you are right ston4ever. In a 2016 set, which exactly is the song that is just so amazingly great still? "Sympathy" is done, Rambler gets slower and slower, and is not dangerous; Miss You - everyone wants it to be gone; Brown Sugar goes for 12 minutes and is a crowd sing along; JJF is opening fireworks...

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Ronnie kills it here. The Buffalo-version isn't my favourite, mainly due to the sound, the mix (Ronnie too up front) and the reversed channels.

Non-melodic? I can't remember that the untouchable original had melodic solos on it. One of the best songs recorded - ever.

This one is really great. Timing problems? Put down the crack pipe!

If you want to hear fluid soloing which make melodic sense from Ronnie go listen to Wild Horses from Knebworth or Hand Of Fate from Paris 1976. As I've said, this Buffalo Gimme Shelter is not bad, but also nothing to get carried away about.

It's interesting that every time Ronnie plays a halfway decent solo, there are people who propel this into highs that are simply not justified.

I agree with that, actually. I even wrote that this Buffalo-version wasn't really my favourite, and posted a way superior version.

Seems like I misinterpreted your post, and thought you meant his playing in general.

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

Quote
stone4ever
This version is louder , sometimes i wonder if Mick Taylor is the best Guitarist in the world, most melodic for sure. I know Taylor and Richards are the best combo in the world. It beggars belief they didn't use Taylor to play on GS on the 50th anniversary shows, that tired shambles GS has become needed a lift that Taylor would have delivered.
[www.youtube.com]

It is this very post that makes me wonder - so what exactly is left? because you are right ston4ever. In a 2016 set, which exactly is the song that is just so amazingly great still? "Sympathy" is done, Rambler gets slower and slower, and is not dangerous; Miss You - everyone wants it to be gone; Brown Sugar goes for 12 minutes and is a crowd sing along; JJF is opening fireworks...

Sad but true PR2000

I think with Keith and Ronnie's diminished guitar skills they could have offered something really special even this late in the game if they had brought Taylor along in 2016, and maybe used him to create that much needed lift he would have provided. Perhaps used him on 5 or 6 songs throughout the set. Its still not too late.

Quote
stone4ever
This version is louder , sometimes i wonder if Mick Taylor is the best Guitarist in the world, most melodic for sure. I know Taylor and Richards are the best combo in the world. It beggars belief they didn't use Taylor to play on GS on the 50th anniversary shows, that tired shambles GS has become needed a lift that Taylor would have delivered.
[www.youtube.com]

He's our favourite, and the fact that he played with our favourite band made us biased, of course – we love the music he soloed over AND his solos

His contemporaries were not inferior, be it technical or melodical. And (imo) «the best guitarist in the world» needs more ownership to the music he/she plays.





[www.youtube.com]

Apart from us Stones fans, Taylor just has to go down in history as the most underestimated guitarist in the world.

Or the biggest unfulfilled guitar talent.

Whatever the reasons, it's a huge shame that after he left the band MT didn't move on to produce further significant work, worthy of his undisputed talent.

He was certainly fulfilled during his time with the Stones, as to why he never put a decent band together with a great vocalist and toured is baffling. I thought he would do just that with the money he earn't from playing with the Stones in recent years, he could fill theaters and possibly arenas if he focused on including lots of Stones material. But that's not MT.

Quote
stone4ever
He was certainly fulfilled during his time with the Stones, as to why he never put a decent band together with a great vocalist and toured is baffling. I thought he would do just that with the money he earn't from playing with the Stones in recent years, he could fill theaters and possibly arenas if he focused on including lots of Stones material. But that's not MT.

Well, he did that with Jack Bruce.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
stone4ever
He was certainly fulfilled during his time with the Stones, as to why he never put a decent band together with a great vocalist and toured is baffling. I thought he would do just that with the money he earn't from playing with the Stones in recent years, he could fill theaters and possibly arenas if he focused on including lots of Stones material. But that's not MT.

Well, he did that with Jack Bruce.

Jacks dead, i just thought with the publicity he got with his recent efforts with the Stones, it would have been a good time to ride that wave and put together a really good band and do some polished shows with a great singer in tow.

Couldn't call Jack Bruce an ideal candidate for singing Stones songs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-15 12:13 by stone4ever.

MT was never going to be a "front man"

...but I've sometimes wondered what offers we don't know about which he might have received & rejected in the years after the Stones to join other bands or high profile projects.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-15 12:32 by Spud.

Quote
Spud
I've sometimes wondered what offers we don't know about which he might have received & rejected in the years after the Stones to join other bands or high profile projects.

He is (was) a very shy man, i don't think he likes the limelight. Its just such a shame he hasn't done more over the years. I wish i was his manager lol.

He doesn't need to be a front man, he just needed to fulfill a similar role he played in the Stones with a great band and singer to accompany him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-15 12:37 by stone4ever.

Wouldn't quarrel with any of that .

Quote
stone4ever

Quote
Redhotcarpet
I dont hear any tiaras from Ronnie more like rusty barbwires thrown out randomly in a hurricane.

And sometimes it works but not on this one. I think he was better in 1981 and 1982 when he did more fills and short leads rather than solos. His staccato style is great on some songs like his very own Hey Negrita.

I didn't think they played Gimme Shelter many times in 81' 82'
Curious that you think Ronnie played GS or anything else better in those years.

Well dont, You already know that Im not talking about Gimme Shelter but Ronnies overall playing in 1981 and 1982.

That said I enjopy the BUffalo boot and everything they did in 1975-1977 but I wouldnt play this Gimme Shelter version as an example of the great live Stones.

video: [www.youtube.com]

Heres a better version with Ronnie.

If you need the guitar hero-stuff...





[www.youtube.com]

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
stone4ever
This version is louder , sometimes i wonder if Mick Taylor is the best Guitarist in the world, most melodic for sure. I know Taylor and Richards are the best combo in the world. It beggars belief they didn't use Taylor to play on GS on the 50th anniversary shows, that tired shambles GS has become needed a lift that Taylor would have delivered.
[www.youtube.com]

He's our favourite, and the fact that he played with our favourite band made us biased, of course – we love the music he soloed over AND his solos

His contemporaries were not inferior, be it technical or melodical. And (imo) «the best guitarist in the world» needs more ownership to the music he/she plays.





[www.youtube.com]

Ritchie Blackmore was on a different level when it comes to technique than Taylor was. Be it that Blackmore tended to overplay sometimes and overuse sloppy one-string tremolo picking passages.

Still Blackmore wrote tons of memorable rock songs, how many did Taylor write?

Taylor was brilliant and is one of my favorite guitarists but people on this board tends to overrate him extensively.

On that account I'd nominate Derek Trucks. He's got Clarence White brilliance and Mick Taylor technical ability and very deeply soulful approach; I don't know about 'better' or 'worse' or the whole comparison angle on things, sometimes it's fun and a reference point I use myself but thinking of the top tier guitar greats who have always struck me as wildly important lik Beck or Taylor or White or Eric etc...if you could combine all that soul experience influence in it's own unique way and still have an absolute blazer on slide; not never wasting a note or abusing one...and all that...Derek Trucks, for me anyway, might be the very best of what's out and around and today; and so deeply soulfully informed about the traditions he comes from and owns. I mean Derek in The Rolling Stones is a whole other ball game and it would not be worse to any extent. haha...i don't even dream of it; I'm just sayin' Derek Trucks...

oh and that Blackmore stuff is tedious.
Machine Head with Ian Gillian was a great, great seminal album I really enjoyed and maybe gave birth to some other bands I enjoy too, but Blackmore is far far far far from the class of a real blues oriented rock and roller;

i mean that's more than far-fetched in the way of a comparison, to blanket statement Taylor's contemporaries weren't necessarily inferior; sure they were. speaking of Mick T and clarence White and cats like that Rithie's a bunch of bad noise, as responsible as any clown for the wake of too fast mega stuttering space child kind of nonsense that just beat the soul right out of rock and roll.

that's like for a heavy metal fan club or something. you might as well compare that kid ozzy had for awhile with mick taylor or eddie van halen, a true groundbreaker but far far far away from the rooted 2nd generation of bluesy soul oriented rock and roll; or even the best of pop rhythm rocking rock n' roll..

..it's like damning Taylor with faint praise to justify that Ron's not up to snuff comparatively...at least on the highest level of things.

i'll always think Start Me Up a perfect recording; some need stuff from Ron on ABB and a lot of their records for sure...but he's no guitar god to me post faces and post his bass work as a member of the original Jeff Beck Group. What a shame those guys couldn't keep it together till Woodstock; there's precious little of those guys really live and kicking it; they gave birth to Led Zep for godsake...huge huge important band..

.to think of Blackmore in the class of a Jeff Beck is silly to guys like me; just an opinion but it's a silly comparison and a false equivalency....

on any one stones live or studio album Taylor was in on he made more than a contribution than Ritchie's whole career in terms of relative importance or cultural impact....and i like DP! at least the Ian Gillian days. I never bothered with Rainbow and never would; that's the kind of shlock heavy metal that kicked whatever soul that was left in the genre right out the door...
imfo
(in my fabulous opinion)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-15 22:40 by hopkins.

Wood looks the part and keeps the peace, but as a guitarist there are many, many players who could have added something to the Stones.

Quote
TheBlockbuster

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
stone4ever
This version is louder , sometimes i wonder if Mick Taylor is the best Guitarist in the world, most melodic for sure. I know Taylor and Richards are the best combo in the world. It beggars belief they didn't use Taylor to play on GS on the 50th anniversary shows, that tired shambles GS has become needed a lift that Taylor would have delivered.
[www.youtube.com]

He's our favourite, and the fact that he played with our favourite band made us biased, of course – we love the music he soloed over AND his solos

His contemporaries were not inferior, be it technical or melodical. And (imo) «the best guitarist in the world» needs more ownership to the music he/she plays.





[www.youtube.com]

Ritchie Blackmore was on a different level when it comes to technique than Taylor was. Be it that Blackmore tended to overplay sometimes and overuse sloppy one-string tremolo picking passages.

Still Blackmore wrote tons of memorable rock songs, how many did Taylor write?

Taylor was brilliant and is one of my favorite guitarists but people on this board tends to overrate him extensively.

How many Stones songs did Blackmore cowrite and contribute to and how many live versions did Blackmore take to higher sphere. None.

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
TheBlockbuster

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
stone4ever
This version is louder , sometimes i wonder if Mick Taylor is the best Guitarist in the world, most melodic for sure. I know Taylor and Richards are the best combo in the world. It beggars belief they didn't use Taylor to play on GS on the 50th anniversary shows, that tired shambles GS has become needed a lift that Taylor would have delivered.
[www.youtube.com]

He's our favourite, and the fact that he played with our favourite band made us biased, of course – we love the music he soloed over AND his solos

His contemporaries were not inferior, be it technical or melodical. And (imo) «the best guitarist in the world» needs more ownership to the music he/she plays.





[www.youtube.com]

Ritchie Blackmore was on a different level when it comes to technique than Taylor was. Be it that Blackmore tended to overplay sometimes and overuse sloppy one-string tremolo picking passages.

Still Blackmore wrote tons of memorable rock songs, how many did Taylor write?

Taylor was brilliant and is one of my favorite guitarists but people on this board tends to overrate him extensively.

How many Stones songs did Blackmore cowrite and contribute to and how many live versions did Blackmore take to higher sphere. None.

Do you believe that one person took the Stones to a higher sphere, or that the band did?