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doitywoik
I remember reading a long piece about Rubin's work with Black Sabbath on "13", which rather resembled a prolongued reviewing procedure (as e.g. in publishing), thus "homework" and constant urging to change or revise things indeed! It possibly wouldn't hurt the Stones to undergo such a procedure - but (me thinks) they would never accept it.
Rubin seems to focus a lot on his "vision" of what a band is really about, and I can well imagine that Mick's and Rubin's visions are quite different (yet Rubin's vision might be closer to Keith's).
I'm not so sure about Chris Kimsey. He did a great job on Tattoo You but was also behind Honk and Grrr.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
doitywoik
I remember reading a long piece about Rubin's work with Black Sabbath on "13", which rather resembled a prolongued reviewing procedure (as e.g. in publishing), thus "homework" and constant urging to change or revise things indeed! It possibly wouldn't hurt the Stones to undergo such a procedure - but (me thinks) they would never accept it.
Rubin seems to focus a lot on his "vision" of what a band is really about, and I can well imagine that Mick's and Rubin's visions are quite different (yet Rubin's vision might be closer to Keith's).
I'm not so sure about Chris Kimsey. He did a great job on Tattoo You but was also behind Honk and Grrr.
Kimsey was only credited for his previous work that ended up on those compilations, methinks. Don't think he has worked with the Stones since 1989?
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
doitywoik
I remember reading a long piece about Rubin's work with Black Sabbath on "13", which rather resembled a prolongued reviewing procedure (as e.g. in publishing), thus "homework" and constant urging to change or revise things indeed! It possibly wouldn't hurt the Stones to undergo such a procedure - but (me thinks) they would never accept it.
Rubin seems to focus a lot on his "vision" of what a band is really about, and I can well imagine that Mick's and Rubin's visions are quite different (yet Rubin's vision might be closer to Keith's).
I'm not so sure about Chris Kimsey. He did a great job on Tattoo You but was also behind Honk and Grrr.
Kimsey was only credited for his previous work that ended up on those compilations, methinks. Don't think he has worked with the Stones since 1989?
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mtaylorQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
doitywoik
I remember reading a long piece about Rubin's work with Black Sabbath on "13", which rather resembled a prolongued reviewing procedure (as e.g. in publishing), thus "homework" and constant urging to change or revise things indeed! It possibly wouldn't hurt the Stones to undergo such a procedure - but (me thinks) they would never accept it.
Rubin seems to focus a lot on his "vision" of what a band is really about, and I can well imagine that Mick's and Rubin's visions are quite different (yet Rubin's vision might be closer to Keith's).
I'm not so sure about Chris Kimsey. He did a great job on Tattoo You but was also behind Honk and Grrr.
Kimsey was only credited for his previous work that ended up on those compilations, methinks. Don't think he has worked with the Stones since 1989?
He was on FlashPoint as well. A natural end as it was the concert album for Steel Wheels. Thereafter Don Was.
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SomeGuy
If SW is symptomatic of what Kimsey would bring the band nowadays, I wouldn't expect much of him producing the new album. I would favour Rubin, but I guess that won't happen.
Maybe this Nick Rasculinez or whats his name would be an idea? Or Kevin Shirley? To give things a slightly more rocky tinge.
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SomeGuy
If SW is symptomatic of what Kimsey would bring the band nowadays, I wouldn't expect much of him producing the new album. I would favour Rubin, but I guess that won't happen.
Maybe this Nick Rasculinez or whats his name would be an idea? Or Kevin Shirley? To give things a slightly more rocky tinge.
Kimsey did a great job with STEEL WHEELS. He can't help the technology that is used.
Look at how many Stones albums he's worked on: he co-produced TATTOO YOU and helped produce UNDERCOVER, STEEL WHEELS and FLASHPOINT. He engineered some of STICKY FINGERS, SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
He would be a fine choice... if he was even interested.
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DandelionPowderman
Kimsey was only credited for his previous work that ended up on those compilations, methinks. Don't think he has worked with the Stones since 1989?
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doitywoik
I guess the "problem" with Don Was is that both Mick and Keith seem to get along with him and so he's someone (the only one?) both can agree on.
It could be yeah, but I have the picture that Don Was shares more Keith's vision of Stones music than Mick's. For example, for Mick's taste VOODOO LOUNGE was too "retro" and "Was trying to create his own EXILE" (and not following MIck's more 'experimental' ideas) or what did he say. Then for BRIDGES TO BABYLON he used different co-producers. Then later, according to Keith, Mick wanted to re-record (or do something for) A BIGGER BANG in a more proper studio, but he and Don Was were opposing that and out-voted Mick, as they liked the album's raw feel.
So in the end, if Rick Rubin can be seen as a model for keeping Mick more 'Stonesy', I don't think Don Was is that different at all. But seemingly Mick rates Don's opinion rather high. I mean, if he wouldn't, Don Was would not be there. As a mark of Mick and Keith trusting Don Was knowing how the classic Stones should sound like, he is the trusted man to take of the vaults releases, such as, understanding the soundscape of, say, EXILE or SOME GIRLS eras. People here are pretty hard on Don Was, but I think he has a pretty conventional and conservative idea of how the Stones should sound like, not drastically differing from the ideals of many hardcore fans here.
- Doxa
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SomeGuy
If SW is symptomatic of what Kimsey would bring the band nowadays, I wouldn't expect much of him producing the new album. I would favour Rubin, but I guess that won't happen.
Maybe this Nick Rasculinez or whats his name would be an idea? Or Kevin Shirley? To give things a slightly more rocky tinge.
Kimsey did a great job with STEEL WHEELS. He can't help the technology that is used.
Look at how many Stones albums he's worked on: he co-produced TATTOO YOU and helped produce UNDERCOVER, STEEL WHEELS and FLASHPOINT. He engineered some of STICKY FINGERS, SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
He would be a fine choice... if he was even interested.
Of course a producer can help the technology being used. Perhaps not the actual studio machines but certainly the instruments, the choices in sound etc. I have dozens if not hundreds of albums produced during the 80s that don't sound 'locked in the 80s' as SW does (to a certain extent, let's not exaggerate, on the whole SW sounds ok alright). His work on the earlier Stones albums is superb, that's just my point: if only he had managed to make SW sound quite like the Stones again. But he didn't quite succeed (for whatever reason), just as Don Was doesn't (for whatever reason). In other words, I don't think Kimsey did a better job on SW than Was on VL - Blu&Lo, and that was, I believe, the reason why we were discussing producers here.
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SomeGuy
If SW is symptomatic of what Kimsey would bring the band nowadays, I wouldn't expect much of him producing the new album. I would favour Rubin, but I guess that won't happen.
Maybe this Nick Rasculinez or whats his name would be an idea? Or Kevin Shirley? To give things a slightly more rocky tinge.
Kimsey did a great job with STEEL WHEELS. He can't help the technology that is used.
Look at how many Stones albums he's worked on: he co-produced TATTOO YOU and helped produce UNDERCOVER, STEEL WHEELS and FLASHPOINT. He engineered some of STICKY FINGERS, SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
He would be a fine choice... if he was even interested.
Of course a producer can help the technology being used. Perhaps not the actual studio machines but certainly the instruments, the choices in sound etc. I have dozens if not hundreds of albums produced during the 80s that don't sound 'locked in the 80s' as SW does (to a certain extent, let's not exaggerate, on the whole SW sounds ok alright). His work on the earlier Stones albums is superb, that's just my point: if only he had managed to make SW sound quite like the Stones again. But he didn't quite succeed (for whatever reason), just as Don Was doesn't (for whatever reason). In other words, I don't think Kimsey did a better job on SW than Was on VL - Blu&Lo, and that was, I believe, the reason why we were discussing producers here.
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SomeGuy
If SW is symptomatic of what Kimsey would bring the band nowadays, I wouldn't expect much of him producing the new album. I would favour Rubin, but I guess that won't happen.
Maybe this Nick Rasculinez or whats his name would be an idea? Or Kevin Shirley? To give things a slightly more rocky tinge.
Kimsey did a great job with STEEL WHEELS. He can't help the technology that is used.
Look at how many Stones albums he's worked on: he co-produced TATTOO YOU and helped produce UNDERCOVER, STEEL WHEELS and FLASHPOINT. He engineered some of STICKY FINGERS, SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
He would be a fine choice... if he was even interested.
Of course a producer can help the technology being used. Perhaps not the actual studio machines but certainly the instruments, the choices in sound etc. I have dozens if not hundreds of albums produced during the 80s that don't sound 'locked in the 80s' as SW does (to a certain extent, let's not exaggerate, on the whole SW sounds ok alright). His work on the earlier Stones albums is superb, that's just my point: if only he had managed to make SW sound quite like the Stones again. But he didn't quite succeed (for whatever reason), just as Don Was doesn't (for whatever reason). In other words, I don't think Kimsey did a better job on SW than Was on VL - Blu&Lo, and that was, I believe, the reason why we were discussing producers here.
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I agree. It's not an opinion .. it's a fact... >> The producer of an album can help (or not help) anything and everything when it comes tomaking an album. He (or she) can select / or persuade to use the gear to use .. the microphones / their placement .. the studio .. the engineer .. everything. From the gear to choosing the session musicians ... to selecting the right takes .. to setting what gets recorded and in what order ... and where ... to creating or selecting the certain sonic vibe ... everything .. right down to helping the writing of the song itself, yo.
I'm not saying he or she always has a hand in all of that .. but it's wide open for them. If the producer cannot help (or choose to select a different piece of gear of recording process) who the hell can?? Remember he (or she) is IN CHARGE of the recording process of the record and is the one responsible for delivering the final result to the the label.
Now ... keep in mind ... in The Stones case The Stones more than likely had as much say (or almost as much) bc of who they are I'm quite sure .. Still YES he (or she) certainly the hell can or could of stepped in to change (or voice his or her heavily weighted opinion in what is occurring in the studio).
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SomeGuy
If SW is symptomatic of what Kimsey would bring the band nowadays, I wouldn't expect much of him producing the new album. I would favour Rubin, but I guess that won't happen.
Maybe this Nick Rasculinez or whats his name would be an idea? Or Kevin Shirley? To give things a slightly more rocky tinge.
Kimsey did a great job with STEEL WHEELS. He can't help the technology that is used.
Look at how many Stones albums he's worked on: he co-produced TATTOO YOU and helped produce UNDERCOVER, STEEL WHEELS and FLASHPOINT. He engineered some of STICKY FINGERS, SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
He would be a fine choice... if he was even interested.
Of course a producer can help the technology being used. Perhaps not the actual studio machines but certainly the instruments, the choices in sound etc. I have dozens if not hundreds of albums produced during the 80s that don't sound 'locked in the 80s' as SW does (to a certain extent, let's not exaggerate, on the whole SW sounds ok alright). His work on the earlier Stones albums is superb, that's just my point: if only he had managed to make SW sound quite like the Stones again. But he didn't quite succeed (for whatever reason), just as Don Was doesn't (for whatever reason). In other words, I don't think Kimsey did a better job on SW than Was on VL - Blu&Lo, and that was, I believe, the reason why we were discussing producers here.
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I agree. It's not an opinion .. it's a fact... >> The producer of an album can help (or not help) anything and everything when it comes tomaking an album. He (or she) can select / or persuade to use the gear to use .. the microphones / their placement .. the studio .. the engineer .. everything. From the gear to choosing the session musicians ... to selecting the right takes .. to setting what gets recorded and in what order ... and where ... to creating or selecting the certain sonic vibe ... everything .. right down to helping the writing of the song itself, yo.
I'm not saying he or she always has a hand in all of that .. but it's wide open for them. If the producer cannot help (or choose to select a different piece of gear of recording process) who the hell can?? Remember he (or she) is IN CHARGE of the recording process of the record and is the one responsible for delivering the final result to the the label.
Now ... keep in mind ... in The Stones case The Stones more than likely had as much say (or almost as much) bc of who they are I'm quite sure .. Still YES he (or she) certainly the hell can or could of stepped in to change (or voice his or her heavily weighted opinion in what is occurring in the studio).
I understand all of that. What I meant was, because the way it was recorded and the technology was brand new or quite new that was used to record the album, perhaps Kimsey wasn't able to have much control over it as digital recording is now. It certainly can't be the result of the Neve board. I hazily recall an article in some music mag, probably Guitar Player, about how this was the first time the Stones used digital tape. It was mixed at Olympic. Maybe at the time it was hailed as an improvement but from what I've found regarding the Mitsubishi X850 digital tape recorder, they were awful and are obsolete and would make great boat anchors.
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SomeGuy
If SW is symptomatic of what Kimsey would bring the band nowadays, I wouldn't expect much of him producing the new album.
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iraq0708
Bump. didn't want this riveting thread to drop off page one....
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SomeGuy
If SW is symptomatic of what Kimsey would bring the band nowadays, I wouldn't expect much of him producing the new album.
While there is every reason to suspect Don Was will be a producer on any future releases including post-Stones, I did want to point out that we're talking about work Kimsey did thirty years ago and using it as a barometer to measure potential work today. There are times all of us are quite mad.
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GasLightStreet
Let's see... just in the Twenty Hundreds alone, of which we are now in the 20th year of, they've released:
2002 FORTY LICKS hits
2005 A BIGGER BANG new LP
2005 RARITIES
2012 THE SIMIAN DISASTER hits
2016 BLUE AND LONESOME new LP
2019 HONK hits
The only inventive/creative thing they've done since 2005 has been the tour posters. All the various live releases are just them finally admitting they're an archival band now, seeing that nothing new from a new LP on tour has been released since NO SECURITY.
So even if they do release a new album... it will be an obvious 'Yep, we're done' kind of thing. If they don't, no one notices.
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Rocky Dijon
Creative Work in the Twenty-First Century
1. Goddess in the Doorway + 2 bonus tracks
2. Four New Licks
3. Four New Alfies
4. A Bigger Bang + 3 bonus tracks
5. "Charmed Life"
6. Six New Exiles
7. "Watching the River Flow"
8. SuperHeavy Deluxe Edition (8 tracks with substantial Jagger input)
9. Six New Some Girls
10. Two GRRReat Songs
11. Crosseyed Heart
12. Blue and Lonesome
13. "Gotta Get a Grip" / "England Lost"
That's something like 94 tracks including the cover versions. What we have is a lack of cohesive albums and actual creative collaboration. The productivity has slowed with age, but not to the trickle some would claim.
Are you saying they are caught between a ROCK AND A HARD PLACE??….sorry could not resist. But yes, could be...Quote
24FPS
Steel Wheels is the last great Stones album, even without a sterling single to make it stand out. Mixed Emotions pretty much summed up their current situation. Terrifying was a new, exciting inroad into jazz. Blinded by Love is sublime Stones country, with exceptional lyrics. Almost Hear You Sigh is lovely. Continental Drift ambitious. And Slipping Away the coda to the Golden Age of the Stones. They would never again reach these heights in the studio. They would never sound as honestly emotional.
I think they know a new album simply can't go where they once soared. They're caught between trying to sound like 'Classic' Stones, but still be relevant. Since it won't sell for beans, they should just let it all hang out. Let the creativity flow, without worrying about the grand public out there. They just want to hear the warhorses anyway.
You're right, of course. My point is that Ron hasn't been involved in writing material for the Stones since.... ? Why not? His latest releases clearly shows that he is just as capable as the Glimmers. And who knows if the three of them worked together in a creative process... Not just beeing session musicians on eachothers songs.Quote
DandelionPowderman
One Birds-tune as well, but I think Rocky was thinking of the Glimmers here.