I like Darryl...but Flea (R.H.C.P.) and Doug Wimbish were my prefer choices to replace Bill.

Steve Jordan on Darryl and Bill

Drummer Steve Jordan shares very frank and candid comments on Darryl Jones and Bill Wyman, from our forthcoming documentary on Darryl

Bill vs. Darryl.
Steve Jordan has it all backwards.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

All one has to do is listen to Black Limousine from Hampton 1981 to hear what Bill contributed. While Keith and Ronnie go off trading solos, Bill is holding the main rhythm melody together. Just rock solid.

Mr. Jordan has conveniently forgotten about the famous "wobble" -- then again, this is a Darryl Jones documentary, so all interviewees have to say especially flattering things about the subject, in the hope that the "one or two generations that have grown up without listening to those early records" and who are only familiar with the present live lineup will not bother wondering what they missed about the old days, and those who do miss the earlier versions of the band will just forget and accept.

Keith "relieved" to see Darryl there? I guess that's why for several tours after Bill left they would call him up first to offer him the job, before they contacted Darryl.

Bill was their bass player -- a rock and roll bassist for a rock and roll band -- and no one understands that better than the band, which is why they kept asking him back.

I wonder what Steve Jordan would say were he to be interviewed for a Bill Wyman documentary -- nothing but flattering things, I'm sure.

I'm surprised. I saw this thread, and a few posts, and I was thinking to myself "No, Jordan knows; he has been Keith's 'guy' for projects outside of Stones, and he knows sh*t, that we don't know."
But...it's understandable for him to make a good case for DJ; maybe they're friends, I dont know. But to be so outright dismissive of Bill Wyman shows ignorance. Maybe, maybe he is echoing Keith's sentiments when Keith was on a bender, and in a particularly anti_Bill mood; but anyone with any musical sense knows how hugely, vitally, essential Bill Wyman is to the true Stones sound.
The early R&B from the 60's - it was all filtered through British eyes, and re-packaged - all that swing was Bill's swing.
I would put out there, that not once have I felt the Stones wing with DJ on bass.

I never cared for Steve Jordan as a drummer. He's got that trash can sound from the 80s. I'm going to assume the lovely things Keith said about Bill's playing on Bill's 80th are the truth.

I like Darryl fine. I prefer Bill when Bill was in the band. I really wanted to hear the magic in the piece meal efforts on BOOGIE FOR STU, but it wasn't there (perhaps because they were recorded piece meal). The magic wasn't there at the O2 shows in 2012 either (perhaps due to lack of rehearsal time for Bill). I'm not certain Bill lost the magic he had, but they didn't re-bottle lightning when they did reunite with him on stage or in the studio. I suspect the same was true of the rehearsals at Bill's studio in December 2011. It's unfortunate, but it makes me suspect there's a reason Chuck and Darryl and Bernard and Tim stay put. The remaining Stones feel strongly they need familiar support to pull off a show to the level they're comfortable.

As for Steve's remarks, he and Darryl were friends long before Darryl auditioned for the Stones in 1993. I won't call Steve's remarks disingenuous, but he's being interviewed in a documentary about a friend and asked to compare him to his predecessor. If it was a Ronnie Wood documentary, I wouldn't expect Kenney Jones to say, "Yeah, Ronnie's good with The Stones, but he's no Mick Taylor." If he did, the clip wouldn't be used. The same with Steve's bit here.

As the years go on I come to appreciate and love what Bill brought to the band and how integral he was. The more archive material released the more you hear it - I remember watching Hampton '81 the first few times and marvelling at how amazing Bill was. Listen to him during Imagination, his basslines and groove elevate it to brilliance.

They have never been the same without him; Darryl has chops and played with greats, but Bill had that swing, the Rolling Stones sound. A vital part of their swagger.

Maybe Mr. Jordan was stoned, maybe Darryl is his friend - anyway,, Mr. Wyman did a good job. Jordan may have a point, the Stones' groove does not work for other bands, but it became the Stones' trademark.

The little showing that Bill Wyman got in the O2 show cant be used as a measuring stick. There was hardly any rehearsal, he barely got to play, but more than that: what Bill does, brings isn't flashy. It's not even so much something that is celebrated when it's there; it is something that is suddenly sorely missed when it is NOT there.
But Rocky is right. For what the Stones are doing today, DJ works fine. The Bass needs to be rock solid. On these huge stages, where you have the lead guitar coming in from a different time zone at times, there needs to be strong anchors back at homebase. Bill had this great habit of playing maybe a note plus it's octave, or a 5th; and circling around a chord sequence. He also liked to keep himself entertained - seems like he never played the same thing twice.
I guess, had he stayed in the band, and grown along with the rest of the group, into these computerized mega shows, he may very well have changed his style to fit.
I bet Stu wouldnt be playing much on stage anymore either.

Roundnround, I know this is a documentary about DJ but come on as a Stones fan you know that Steves dismissal of Bill is unfounded and ignorant of the music. I'm sure Darryl would disagree with Steve also.

I expected better of Steve.

Judging from his work with Rhythm Kings and his 80th birthday gig, Bill has not lost anything from his magic bass playing.

How ignorant of Jordan. This is all just plain BS, what he's saying about Bill Wyman.

...i mean Bill could never do that. hE'S JUST INCAPABLE. he doesn't have the feel or the background for that kind of thing. Bill can't hold the whole band up by himself w the drummer while creating new punctuaton melody and thrust on mercury jazz fast fingering on material he creatred in the first place that rockets all around every day everywhere for fifty something years and forever...we will remember Darryl the innovator, the creator.
...never saw The Rolling Stones when they were the undisputed Kings for realz. he has no idea. He doesn't even care to listen or know. He has no searching nature but talks incredible nonsense...off the charts nonsense.
We love B&L but nobody's talking about how solid and creative and in the pocket moment Darryl is, how his contribution means something/anything or adds something anything near essential or more than utilitarian and basic..
I know he's not a natural r&b guy or rock and roller; he doesn't have it in his blood. He's not the kind of kid that really grew up and grooved to r&b and soul, he was interested in jazz and I think it's fairly well known that that was his more natural interest and study and personal love and evolution...i mean he can certainly play; i try not to be critical but it's revisionist history.
He's a nice looking pro bass guy w a cool stage presence and does the job. why ohwhy can't we leave it at that. for whaever reason the glims see to.
So I try to be careful and respectfulabout Darryl and get in the spirit, but holy Ghost this is not right.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2016-12-26 03:45 by hopkins.

Thanks

"All one has to do is listen to Black Limousine from Hampton 1981 to hear what Bill contributed. While Keith and Ronnie go off trading solos, Bill is holding the main rhythm melody together. Just rock solid."

Indeed. For me, the proof of Bill's uniqueness and essential contributions to the classic Stones sound are inescapable on live recordings from the 1981 tour. Versions of songs done on that tour, when done in later years with Darryl on bass have lost a great deal, in my opinion. Especially Black Limousine, Imagination, When The Whip Comes Down, Neighbours, Beast Of Burden, Let It Bleed, so many others...

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

Quote
24FPS
I never cared for Steve Jordan as a drummer. He's got that trash can sound from the 80s.

He's got a lovely natural BIG (but not Bonhamesque) tone on "Main Offender"... And he played great on "One Hit..." too.

Static? No groove?

Has Steve Jordan never listened to I Wanna Be Your Man, Under My Thumb or Miss You? Someone should give him Still Life as a Christmas present.

Watch the clip again. I came away feeling Steve's criticism of Bill was for his not fitting in so well on the STEEL WHEELS / URBAN JUNGLE tours. He's saying Bill's style did not work with what the band became starting in 1989. He's not blasting Bill's work in the past. If you prefer, he's saying Bill doesn't fit the Vegas years. It's a valid opinion whether one agrees or disagrees.

Steve says that two generations only know the songs in concert with Darryl. Obviously those two generations who bother to see them live at least own a couple of greatest hits collections with Bill playing all over them, but I think Steve's point is they have only ever seen Darryl when they went to a Stones show. Fair enough if your first Stones show was 1989 or later, you have to rely on the vintage live albums and concert DVDs to see how the band earned their reputation.

Rocky, I think you are right in your interpretation. Steve is saying that Bill was great in his time, and Darryl is great in his time. The same could be said for Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood. Taylor was great in the 70s, but it did not work as well when they tried to bring him back in 2013... Ronnie and Darryl fit better with where the band is now.

Btw, I can tell you that we did not force Steve Jordan to say anything, either positive or negative. Nor did we do so with Keith, Ronnie and Charlie. Nobody tells them to say or do anything. They all feel very warmly towards Darryl and wanted to express that.

He's simply wrong about Bill. Not fair comments at all and there was no need to make them..............what's his f**king problem ?

My opinion of Steve Jordan has just taken a nosedive.


sc uk

Quote
roundnround
Taylor was great in the 70s, but it did not work as well when they tried to bring him back in 2013... Ronnie and Darryl fit better with where the band is now.

Btw, I can tell you that we did not force Steve Jordan to say anything, either positive or negative. Nor did we do so with Keith, Ronnie and Charlie. Nobody tells them to say or do anything. They all feel very warmly towards Darryl and wanted to express that.

They didn't 'try' to bring Mick Taylor back...they brought him back as a special guest and it helped them sell tickets.
MICK TAYLOR WAS THE HIGHLIGHT FOR ALL OF THE SHOWS I SAW THAT TOUR - ALL SIX OF THEM!!!
The only way it might have worked better would have been to have him on stage the entire show
Ronnie could have stepped aside to play bass in place of Darryl.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball

Ronnie could have stepped aside to play bass in place of Darryl.

I guess you didn't want to hear Bill Wyman either... Lol

Quote
roundnround

Quote
Hairball

Ronnie could have stepped aside to play bass in place of Darryl.

I guess you didn't want to hear Bill Wyman either... Lol

Haha...good one

Unfortunately Bill wasn't playing with them at the So Cal and Vegas shows I saw that tour!
Fortunately though, I had seen him in the past many times between 1981 until he quit to know that he was an integral part of the Stones sound in a LIVE setting - contrary to what Steve Jordan believes.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I think Steve is seriously radically way off here.
i don't mean to get in a silly daryl vs, bill compettion
it's be unfair to both of them...
but jordan is begging some questions here imo



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2016-12-20 06:58 by hopkins.

I think that jordan needs to do some homework.

the only thing that he said re Bill with which I agree is that bill's cameo at the O2 arena was musically quite irrelevant. Don't know what happened behind the curtain, and I don't care less, but on stage the reunion just didn't work.

And please no "under-rehearsed / poor choice of songs" BS excuses. Bill's bass line on studio Honky Tonk is a fantastic showcase of why he is one of the greatest, and the 75 IORR is the definite live version also because of Bill's great bass.

That said, Jordan and everybody are right when they say that Darryl is a great bass player and is doing a mighty fine job, but to say that the groove was missing with Bill on stage is just plain stupid. Keith had to play guitar and pass parts? Is he kidding?

C

i'd like to see some footage of darryl performing with other people; i'll be following this and hope to really get a closer look at him outside his Stones life too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-12-21 10:08 by hopkins.

Sorry, hopkins. I shouldn't have lost my temper with you. You're entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-12-20 03:57 by Rocky Dijon.

thank you; i didn't mean to upset anyone and I appreciate it;
and probably was too critical i'm thinking now, so I'm sorry too.
No bigs at all from this end; hope we can get along well and hope this project takes off; I"ll see it for sure.
And I really respect and enjoy your posts.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2016-12-21 10:16 by hopkins.

"bill Wyman was very static when he played live with them and there was no groove....
...it's a total relief for Keith...as opposed to Keith having to play both the bass and the guitar because that's what was happening live when he played with Bill...
....at least you're getting the groove and maybe some more of the groove that's on the records and that's what Darryl provides;
if they heard the band with Bill they may not get that same reaction...or the same feeling...because there would be a different groove generated more by Keith and Charlie as opposed to the triangle that includes the bass (thanks for clearing that up??) ...
... there was a big reunion when Bill came back...freakin' dead in the water...it's like not moving, it's like whoa...ok they're all there but eewwwwwww you know....its like stiff as a cadaver; it's not going anywhere....i'm talking about what Darryl provides and what Bill would have provided and there's no contest really...."

Steve Jordan



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2016-12-20 05:11 by hopkins.