from the era were talking about, tattoo you is far better than emotional rescue with some girls in between.

maybe they should have mixed it up a bit and made all 3 albums the same standard.

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buttons67
from the era were talking about, tattoo you is far better than emotional rescue with some girls in between.

maybe they should have mixed it up a bit and made all 3 albums the same standard.

IMO, That's exactly what they did. Love those albums equally.

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DandelionPowderman

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buttons67
from the era were talking about, tattoo you is far better than emotional rescue with some girls in between.

maybe they should have mixed it up a bit and made all 3 albums the same standard.

IMO, That's exactly what they did. Love those albums equally.

I can't see that when they selected the tracks for SG they already had ER and TY in mind in a way of intentionally holding certain tracks back for future albums.

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman

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buttons67
from the era were talking about, tattoo you is far better than emotional rescue with some girls in between.

maybe they should have mixed it up a bit and made all 3 albums the same standard.

IMO, That's exactly what they did. Love those albums equally.

I can't see that when they selected the tracks for SG they already had ER and TY in mind in a way of intentionally holding certain tracks back for future albums.

I can't see that happening either. Common sense would say they put together what they thought was the best at the time for Some Girls, and leaving the rest as unwanted leftovers.
Emotional Rescue just doesn't have the same quality and/or cohesiveness imo. And while Tattoo You is great (WAY better than ER), it definitely sounds cobbled together from various leftovers.
Divided between side one and side two - the incohesiveness is clear.

But since we're second guessing history - maybe they could have put Start Me up and Slave on ER, with Down in the Hole and Summer Romance on Tattoo You - both albums might have been better because of it. Or a better idea - put the best four from the Some Girls Deluxe on ER, and wipe out the title track ER, Send it to Me, Indian Girl, and All About You (sorry Keith it's boring).
As for Some Girls - no need to add or replace anything. Perhaps I'm just used to hearing it the way it is, but it's probably best to leave well enough alone.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-07 03:55 by Hairball.

[[/quote]

Because it's made of leftovers I find it falls apart half way through. Side 2 is really Jagger's show. In restrospect I find Emotional Rescue and Undercover more interesting and fresh. And the band is playing so tight on them.[/quote]

If you didn't know it was leftovers, you'd never be able to tell.

The leftovers were amazing, though, good enough to make a fourth album (SG Deluxe) and probably more.

I bet they knew that as well...

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wonderboy
I think of SG and ER as part of the same package -- SG a better album but ER still a fun listen.
TYou was a compilation, sort of a best of the vault release. How they got it to sound some crisp and consistent is a tribute to whoever mixed it.
DW -- I think Keith believed it could have been a good album had Mick come in with his normal contributions.
.

what are you saying then...it's a keith album?!

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DandelionPowderman
The leftovers were amazing, though, good enough to make a fourth album (SG Deluxe) and probably more.

I bet they knew that as well...

Do you think that all these four albums worth of songs are interchangeable, and maybe they just randomly picked the first batch and called the album Some Girls, and the next random batch Emotional Rescue? And whatever was left Tattoo You? Or did they take the time to think about all these songs and place them together in a cohesive manner? I would think the latter, with their best picks making up Some Girls.

And if all the leftovers were so amazing, why did they even bother to go into the studio to record Undercover when they could have just released the SG Deluxe tunes as an album back then. Instead, they locked them up in the vaults and probably didn't think much of them. I agree those are great tunes, but evidently they didn't think much of them at the time of recording them, otherwise they would have officially seen the light of day many years ago.


edit: Upon further contemplation, imo they should have released the SG Deluxe tunes ('Some Girls II') as a follow up to Some Girls leaving all the ER tunes in the vaults instead.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-07 10:32 by Hairball.

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Hairball

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DandelionPowderman
The leftovers were amazing, though, good enough to make a fourth album (SG Deluxe) and probably more.

I bet they knew that as well...

Do you think that all these four albums worth of songs are interchangeable, and maybe they just randomly picked the first batch and called the album Some Girls, and the next random batch Emotional Rescue? And whatever was left Tattoo You? Or did they take the time to think about all these songs and place them together in a cohesive manner? I would think the latter, with their best picks making up Some Girls.

And if all the leftovers were so amazing, why did they even bother to go into the studio to record Undercover when they could have just released the SG Deluxe tunes as an album back then. Instead, they locked them up in the vaults and probably didn't think much of them. I agree those are great tunes, but evidently they didn't think much of them at the time of recording them, otherwise they would have officially seen the light of day many years ago.


edit: Upon further contemplation, imo they should have released the SG Deluxe tunes ('Some Girls II') as a follow up to Some Girls leaving all the ER tunes in the vaults instead.

We tend to think of the PM sessions as one session. That's not true, as they had more + the RCA sessions in 1978.

Of course they picked what they regarded as best for Some Girls, just like they did with Emotional Rescue.

That doesn't mean that they regarded We Had It All, Tallahassee Lassie, I Love You Too Much or Start Me Up as too weak for Emotional Rescue or Some Girls.

I think they chose the songs that made the best album for the two former, and picked out what they liked the most from the 77-79 sessions for Tattoo You + some leftover nuggets from earlier sessions.

However, the construction of theses three (four with Sg Deluxe) albums is very similar: A diverse collection of songs, with many musical styles, but with a cohesive sound.

Maybe I was unclear, but this is what I meant



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-07 10:39 by DandelionPowderman.

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HMS

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shortfatfanny

Just your combination theory is strange...you can combine anything and the result will not be an original Stones album but some kind of something...

Indeed, but most SG-ER-TY-tracks were recorded at the very same sessions, weren´t they? - so I think a combination of the best songs would probably make more sense than usual.

I get your point.I just like the albums individually,the certain flow of all of them.

For example I never felt the need to do some kind of Sticky Exile...

[.[/quote]

what are you saying then...it's a keith album?![/quote]

Keith and Ronnie, playing riffs, waiting around for Mick to finish his solo album. Then Mick showed up, shouted some gibberish into a mike and that was the album. God that album was a disappointment to me.

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Tate
DW, though, followed a similar format, with Harlem Shuffle as the first single sounding virtually nothing like the rest of the record. I have always felt like DW could have been another huge seller like SG had it just been a better performed and produced record. The songs-- especially One Hit, Fight, Had It With You-- are perfectly rolicking guitar-driven Stones songs, if you take out the stupid loud drums and out-front throaty vocals.

To Tate's original comments about Some Girls vs. Dirty Work, I must say I've never thought about it that way but it is an interesting comparison.

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HMS

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shortfatfanny

Just your combination theory is strange...you can combine anything and the result will not be an original Stones album but some kind of something...

Indeed, but most SG-ER-TY-tracks were recorded at the very same sessions, weren´t they? - so I think a combination of the best songs would probably make more sense than usual.

A majority of ER's tracks were recorded in 1979, hence not being from "the same sessions". Only Summer Romance is from the SG sessions.

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DandelionPowderman

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Hairball

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DandelionPowderman
The leftovers were amazing, though, good enough to make a fourth album (SG Deluxe) and probably more.

I bet they knew that as well...

Do you think that all these four albums worth of songs are interchangeable, and maybe they just randomly picked the first batch and called the album Some Girls, and the next random batch Emotional Rescue? And whatever was left Tattoo You? Or did they take the time to think about all these songs and place them together in a cohesive manner? I would think the latter, with their best picks making up Some Girls.

And if all the leftovers were so amazing, why did they even bother to go into the studio to record Undercover when they could have just released the SG Deluxe tunes as an album back then. Instead, they locked them up in the vaults and probably didn't think much of them. I agree those are great tunes, but evidently they didn't think much of them at the time of recording them, otherwise they would have officially seen the light of day many years ago.


edit: Upon further contemplation, imo they should have released the SG Deluxe tunes ('Some Girls II') as a follow up to Some Girls leaving all the ER tunes in the vaults instead.

We tend to think of the PM sessions as one session. That's not true, as they had more + the RCA sessions in 1978.

Of course they picked what they regarded as best for Some Girls, just like they did with Emotional Rescue.

That doesn't mean that they regarded We Had It All, Tallahassee Lassie, I Love You Too Much or Start Me Up as too weak for Emotional Rescue or Some Girls.

I think they chose the songs that made the best album for the two former, and picked out what they liked the most from the 77-79 sessions for Tattoo You + some leftover nuggets from earlier sessions.

However, the construction of theses three (four with Sg Deluxe) albums is very similar: A diverse collection of songs, with many musical styles, but with a cohesive sound.

Maybe I was unclear, but this is what I meant

Yes that makes sense.
Still, I find it odd that the SG Deluxe tracks weren't released earlier and were basically shelved in the vaults for decades.
If not ER , Undercover and especially Dirty Work could have been improved with some of those gems included (Tattoo You doesn't need any help imo). But I suppose they might have thought they were creating something new, contemporary, cohesive, and cutting edge with those albums and didn't want to dig into the past again. Come to think of it, those tunes could have helped any of the albums released in the last 30 years...just re-polish them a bit production-wise to fit in with whatever they were working on.

With that said, I wonder if they had the foresight to think: "we'll save these leftover SG babies for a few decades and unleash them when we release Some Girls Deluxe"...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I am aware that I may be one in a minority, even more on IORR than possibly elsewhere: If there is any triology round these years of the Rolling Stones , to me it comprises SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER, not TATTOO YOU. By the way, I have got a problem with TATTOO YOU that irritates me more than the weaker DIRTY WORK. To me EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER are both almost perfect at what those albums were set out to be. SOME GIRLS as album to me is not quite perfect, even if all these three albums to me are great. As such, SOME GIRLS includes the grand songs "Miss You", "Far Away Eyes" and "Shattered" and good songs like good "Beast of Burden" and almost as good and even more interesting "Lies". In contrast with the other two albums of the alleged triology, SOME GIRLS to me has some defiencies though, despite its delicious refound energy. I am one, who would have traded away "Respectable" for replacement by "Claudine" in its apparently original version.

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Witness
I am aware that I may be one in a minority, even more on IORR than possibly elsewhere: If there is any triology round these years of the Rolling Stones , to me it comprises SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER, not TATTOO YOU. By the way, I have got a problem with TATTOO YOU that irritates me more than the weaker DIRTY WORK. To me EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER are both almost perfect at what those albums were set out to be. SOME GIRLS as album to me is not quite perfect, even if all these three albums to me are great. As such, SOME GIRLS includes the grand songs "Miss You", "Far Away Eyes" and "Shattered" and good songs like good "Beast of Burden" and almost as good and even more interesting "Lies". In contrast with the other two albums of the alleged triology, SOME GIRLS to me has some defiencies though, despite its delicious refound energy. I am one, who would have traded away "Respectable" for replacement by "Claudine" in its apparently original version.

They left off better songs, regardless of what status they were left at in terms of being finished or just tracked, that could've taken the place of Imagination and Respectable; Fiji Gin and The Way She Held Me Tight are two great examples. Or No Spare Parts or Do You Think I Really Care. I don't think of Claudine as much of a song, it's just some sort of rambling that doesn't really do anything.

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GasLightStreet

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Witness
I am aware that I may be one in a minority, even more on IORR than possibly elsewhere: If there is any triology round these years of the Rolling Stones , to me it comprises SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER, not TATTOO YOU. By the way, I have got a problem with TATTOO YOU that irritates me more than the weaker DIRTY WORK. To me EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER are both almost perfect at what those albums were set out to be. SOME GIRLS as album to me is not quite perfect, even if all these three albums to me are great. As such, SOME GIRLS includes the grand songs "Miss You", "Far Away Eyes" and "Shattered" and good songs like good "Beast of Burden" and almost as good and even more interesting "Lies". In contrast with the other two albums of the alleged triology, SOME GIRLS to me has some defiencies though, despite its delicious refound energy. I am one, who would have traded away "Respectable" for replacement by "Claudine" in its apparently original version.

They left off better songs, regardless of what status they were left at in terms of being finished or just tracked, that could've taken the place of Imagination and Respectable; Fiji Gin and The Way She Held Me Tight are two great examples. Or No Spare Parts or Do You Think I Really Care. I don't think of Claudine as much of a song, it's just some sort of rambling that doesn't really do anything.

Wrong, Some Girls is absolutely perfect! Songs left off pale in comparison, exceptions are No Spare Parts and Yellow Cab. Still, they aren't better than Far Away Eyes, but probably if that was replaced with one of those, it wouldn't have affected the greatness that is SG ... not too much anyway.

IMo, Claudine isnt good enough for SG,ER, TY.
On any of those albums it would have been the worst song.
A B-side at best.

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HMS
IMo, Claudine isnt good enough for SG,ER, TY.
On any of those albums it would have been the worst song.
A B-side at best.

The inclusion of Claudine (only left off because of legal problems) and, for that matter, We Had It All would have lifted the standart of ER considerably. There you go!

What also makes those albums (Some Girls and Emotional Rescue) so great is the production! Sheer quality. Also the time the spend in the studio for these. Both makes them great (apart from the songwriting and musicianship)

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alimente

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HMS
IMo, Claudine isnt good enough for SG,ER, TY.
On any of those albums it would have been the worst song.
A B-side at best.

The inclusion of Claudine (only left off because of legal problems) and, for that matter, We Had It All would have lifted the standart of ER considerably. There you go!

Since when did The Stones bother any legal problems .........

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NICOS

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alimente

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HMS
IMo, Claudine isnt good enough for SG,ER, TY.
On any of those albums it would have been the worst song.
A B-side at best.

The inclusion of Claudine (only left off because of legal problems) and, for that matter, We Had It All would have lifted the standart of ER considerably. There you go!

Since when did The Stones bother any legal problems .........

Since money got REAL BIG

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GasLightStreet

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Witness
I am aware that I may be one in a minority, even more on IORR than possibly elsewhere: If there is any triology round these years of the Rolling Stones , to me it comprises SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER, not TATTOO YOU. By the way, I have got a problem with TATTOO YOU that irritates me more than the weaker DIRTY WORK. To me EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER are both almost perfect at what those albums were set out to be. SOME GIRLS as album to me is not quite perfect, even if all these three albums to me are great. As such, SOME GIRLS includes the grand songs "Miss You", "Far Away Eyes" and "Shattered" and good songs like good "Beast of Burden" and almost as good and even more interesting "Lies". In contrast with the other two albums of the alleged triology, SOME GIRLS to me has some defiencies though, despite its delicious refound energy. I am one, who would have traded away "Respectable" for replacement by "Claudine" in its apparently original version.

They left off better songs, regardless of what status they were left at in terms of being finished or just tracked, that could've taken the place of Imagination and Respectable; Fiji Gin and The Way She Held Me Tight are two great examples. Or No Spare Parts or Do You Think I Really Care. I don't think of Claudine as much of a song, it's just some sort of rambling that doesn't really do anything.

I agree that "Just My Imagination" could have been a second song on SOME GIRLS to be replaced. But it is not obvious that there would have been suitable replacements. What you characterize as " a sort of rambling that does not do anything" about "Claudine", that is a type of saying often thrown at certain Stones songs, often good songs of a minimalistic character. Well, I find "Claudine" immensely catchy in that old vinyl boot version that I have got, and not that minimalistic. I have got nothing against "Fiji Jim" ( "Fiji Gin" probably a product of some distraction) or "When She Held Me Tight" ( named "Misty Roads" on that same boot). However, I think "Claudine" would much more have suited than those two songs in the energetic SOME GIRLS album. When you mention "Do You Think I Really Care" ( "Need a Yellow Cab" on my vinyl boot), I guess that is one candidate from you to replace "Just My Imagination" rather than "Respectable"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-09 01:27 by Witness.

Well, if you think of unfinished songs being potentially "better" songs than other ones that got actually released, it may have been cases where the band felt that the ones they had chosen for the album simply fit the general mood and flow better. One should also not forget that work on any given album has to be finished within a certain time frame - you have release schedules, tours booked etc. It's well possible that you have a song sketch that has great potential but somehow it does not "click" what final touches it exactly needs to make it truly great.

"Fiji Jim" (or "Gin") seems to fall into this category because it was one of the handful of archive tracks that weren chosen by Chris Kimsey as possible candidates for "Voodoo Lounge" single b-side tracks - only one of these tracks, "So Young" saw the light of day back then, on various "Love Is Strong" single formats, alongside "Jump On Top Of Me", "The Storm" and others.

With this in mind, I thought it was a number 1 choice for inclusion on SG Deluxe. But no! Instead we got a slighty reworked/remixed version of "So Young" again, the SG outtake which already saw the light of day in 1994.

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Witness

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GasLightStreet

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Witness
I am aware that I may be one in a minority, even more on IORR than possibly elsewhere: If there is any triology round these years of the Rolling Stones , to me it comprises SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER, not TATTOO YOU. By the way, I have got a problem with TATTOO YOU that irritates me more than the weaker DIRTY WORK. To me EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER are both almost perfect at what those albums were set out to be. SOME GIRLS as album to me is not quite perfect, even if all these three albums to me are great. As such, SOME GIRLS includes the grand songs "Miss You", "Far Away Eyes" and "Shattered" and good songs like good "Beast of Burden" and almost as good and even more interesting "Lies". In contrast with the other two albums of the alleged triology, SOME GIRLS to me has some defiencies though, despite its delicious refound energy. I am one, who would have traded away "Respectable" for replacement by "Claudine" in its apparently original version.

They left off better songs, regardless of what status they were left at in terms of being finished or just tracked, that could've taken the place of Imagination and Respectable; Fiji Gin and The Way She Held Me Tight are two great examples. Or No Spare Parts or Do You Think I Really Care. I don't think of Claudine as much of a song, it's just some sort of rambling that doesn't really do anything.

I agree that "Just My Imagination" could have been a second song on SOME GIRLS to be replaced. But it is not obvious that there would have been suitable replacements. What you characterize as " a sort of rambling that does not do anything" about "Claudine", that is a type of saying often thrown at certain Stones songs, often good songs of a minimalistic character. Well, I find "Claudine" immensely catchy in that old vinyl boot version that I have got, and not that minimalistic. I have got nothing against "Fiji Jim" ( "Fiji Gin" probably a product of some distraction) or "When She Held Me Tight" ( named "Misty Roads" on that same boot). However, I think "Claudine" would much more have suited than those two songs in the energetic SOME GIRLS album. When you mention "Do You Think I Really Care" ( "Need a Yellow Cab" on my vinyl boot), I guess that is one candidate from you to replace "Just My Imagination" rather than "Respectable"?

Nah. I'd replace Respectable and Imagination, although with what is not really a big deal. Those two country songs on the SG extra disc have that attitude so they would work. But they also ignored some of the better tunes they didn't finish so who know. Although I like Respectable on SG it's just... there's not much to it. Which is probably the point about it that works: it's a simple song, if Chuck Berry went punk. Live it just never has come across with the proper energy, with possible exception to the SG tour.

It's likely that the reason people wouldn't replace anything on SG is because of the nature of the songs. If Summer Romance had been finished and put on SG no one would think otherwise because it has that vibe that SG has overall: aggressive and up. Consider if they had done Imagination for BLACK AND BLUE how different it would've turned out. That's the point.

ER and TY don't have the attitude that SG has, which may be a big consideration in terms to why people don't think ER is very good (aside from the choice of songs to some people) and TY's all-over-the-place feel, which I think is beyond brilliant considering there were no recording sessions for TY.

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman

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buttons67
from the era were talking about, tattoo you is far better than emotional rescue with some girls in between.

maybe they should have mixed it up a bit and made all 3 albums the same standard.

IMO, That's exactly what they did. Love those albums equally.

I can't see that when they selected the tracks for SG they already had ER and TY in mind in a way of intentionally holding certain tracks back for future albums.

According to Chris Kimsey they had no intention at all to do anything with those leftovers regarding what became TY, especially since there were more BLACK AND BLUE leftovers worked on for TY.

ER has 2 SG sessions tracks on it: Summer Romance and All About You, which was started for but not finished, from what makes sense, for SG.

They were clearly in a very creative mode from 1977 to 1979 and recorded a TON of songs, the majority of which were not released. Had they done recording sessions for TY then we probably wouldn't be talking about this. UNDERCOVER was, with one exception, all new songs and obviously a case of moving on from all of that craziness from Keith's arrest to the huge TY tours. The results were, to some people, fantastic. Is U a great album? No, not compared to the usual great albums. It sure was different. But it was clearly a moving on from what they had done (and technically the true follow up to ER).