Tell Me :
Talk
Yep, they've admitted they use a pre-set click track for Chuck to count off a lot of the songs. Wish I could find the source, but I saw an interview where Ronnie said that.
I would guess Keith was opposed to the click tracks. According to the interview I saw with Ronnie, when they do use them, it's only to set the count-in. After that they're not listening to a click track at all.
I read that also. Didn't we used to see setlists with the BPM and key listed for each song, except foe Keith's songs it said "Keith" instead of a metronome # ?
The Altamont JJF even more so. It rocked anyway
Exactly. My prime example would be Brown Sugar. The studio version is great, but when played live at that tempo it just SOUNDS too slow in my opinion. I liked it better when they used to kick it up a notch. Live, they have a hard time capturing that slinky, sinewy feel that makes the studio version work at that slower tempo.
Although I might agree on Brown Sugar, Tumbling Dice and Miss you (especially when you listen to the 12inch version) are for me typical groove songs that are played too fast in concert. On the other hand, with the adrenaline on stage it is quite normal that songs are played faster on stage.
A bit OT but I saw Willie Dixon perform that song when Sugar Blue (harmonica on MY) was in his band. Willie introduced that song saying "I'm built for comfort, he (pointing at Sugar Blue) is built for speed"
Sympathy For The Devil has become just a shot away from such, sadly.
Where did you hear "Get Off of My Cloud" in 2013? I thought it was nice and fast on June 6 in Toronto.
Charlie needs to start this one, like on the studio version. I really think something would have happened if they did it this way.
Yeah, I just saw a video of Tokyo Dome 2014, where Cloud was the opener and it really felt too slow. Charlie did start it, but only after a count in by Chuck. Loved the way they did it back in 75-76!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-18 13:55 by HonkeyTonkFlash.
I used to love when they kick the tempos up in Concerts like with Rambler on Ya Ya's..but nowadays...Slow Down and make it proper instead...
2 1 2 0
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: April 15, 2016 18:37
Listening to a lot of live stuff lately and what bothers me about the Stones live from 2012 on is that a lot of songs sound too slow. Now I realize that for the most part they are actually playing them at the proper recorded tempos but they always used to kick the tempos up in concert, which I feel added to the excitement level. When done live, the proper tempos just sound too slow to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: April 15, 2016 18:48
Generally, I think Mick wants to go fast, Keith wants to slow it down.
I think I remember a clip from the 1969 tour it which they launched into Honky Tonk Woman and Keith immediately dialed it down into a slower groove and Mick looked at him, annoyed.
My brother is a guitar player and told me the thing about their great records is that they tempos are a living thing and often change within the song -- speeding up in the choruses, for example. The recorded 'Wild Horses' is very slow, so it kind of builds up dramatic tension and then speeds up a bit to give you a release.
Now I suspect the tempos are set by Chuck and Charlie at Mick's behest and Keith is content to follow along instead of set the pace.
Just opinions, so open for correction.
I think I remember a clip from the 1969 tour it which they launched into Honky Tonk Woman and Keith immediately dialed it down into a slower groove and Mick looked at him, annoyed.
My brother is a guitar player and told me the thing about their great records is that they tempos are a living thing and often change within the song -- speeding up in the choruses, for example. The recorded 'Wild Horses' is very slow, so it kind of builds up dramatic tension and then speeds up a bit to give you a release.
Now I suspect the tempos are set by Chuck and Charlie at Mick's behest and Keith is content to follow along instead of set the pace.
Just opinions, so open for correction.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: April 15, 2016 18:51
Quote
wonderboy
Generally, I think Mick wants to go fast, Keith wants to slow it down.
I think I remember a clip from the 1969 tour it which they launched into Honky Tonk Woman and Keith immediately dialed it down into a slower groove and Mick looked at him, annoyed.
My brother is a guitar player and told me the thing about their great records is that they tempos are a living thing and often change within the song -- speeding up in the choruses, for example. The recorded 'Wild Horses' is very slow, so it kind of builds up dramatic tension and then speeds up a bit to give you a release.
Now I suspect the tempos are set by Chuck and Charlie at Mick's behest and Keith is content to follow along instead of set the pace.
Just opinions, so open for correction.
Yep, they've admitted they use a pre-set click track for Chuck to count off a lot of the songs. Wish I could find the source, but I saw an interview where Ronnie said that.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 15, 2016 20:52
I can't see Keith initiating the use of click tracks on stage.
Sometimes the proper tempo work on stage, sometimes it doesn't, imo. It depends on the performance and the groove they are getting.
Sometimes the proper tempo work on stage, sometimes it doesn't, imo. It depends on the performance and the groove they are getting.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: April 15, 2016 21:08
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I can't see Keith initiating the use of click tracks on stage.
Sometimes the proper tempo work on stage, sometimes it doesn't, imo. It depends on the performance and the groove they are getting.
I would guess Keith was opposed to the click tracks. According to the interview I saw with Ronnie, when they do use them, it's only to set the count-in. After that they're not listening to a click track at all.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
buttons67
()
Date: April 16, 2016 00:50
i think a lot of stones tracks whether studio or live could do with a bit of speeding up.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
nick
()
Date: April 16, 2016 04:07
It is the only reason I did not go back after 06.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
Rokyfan
()
Date: April 16, 2016 05:00
Quote
HonkeyTonkFlashQuote
wonderboy
Generally, I think Mick wants to go fast, Keith wants to slow it down.
I think I remember a clip from the 1969 tour it which they launched into Honky Tonk Woman and Keith immediately dialed it down into a slower groove and Mick looked at him, annoyed.
My brother is a guitar player and told me the thing about their great records is that they tempos are a living thing and often change within the song -- speeding up in the choruses, for example. The recorded 'Wild Horses' is very slow, so it kind of builds up dramatic tension and then speeds up a bit to give you a release.
Now I suspect the tempos are set by Chuck and Charlie at Mick's behest and Keith is content to follow along instead of set the pace.
Just opinions, so open for correction.
Yep, they've admitted they use a pre-set click track for Chuck to count off a lot of the songs. Wish I could find the source, but I saw an interview where Ronnie said that.
I read that also. Didn't we used to see setlists with the BPM and key listed for each song, except foe Keith's songs it said "Keith" instead of a metronome # ?
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
Title5Take1
()
Date: April 16, 2016 10:40
1969 Hyde Park's Honky Tonk Women is almost comically slow.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 16, 2016 13:29
Quote
Title5Take1
1969 Hyde Park's Honky Tonk Women is almost comically slow.
The Altamont JJF even more so. It rocked anyway
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
laertisflash
()
Date: April 16, 2016 14:31
I don't buy the theory "the faster the better". As Title5Take1 and Dandelion said, Hyde Park's HTW and Altamont's JJE were slow versions. But they were excellent. Both. As it was JJF from Rock and Roll Circus, a slow version too. Satisfaction from Still Life was very fast and really bad, IMO (sloppiest!). On the other hand, Under My Thumb was fast and rocking.
Folks, it's about music, not about Formula 1...
Folks, it's about music, not about Formula 1...
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
eduardoacdc
()
Date: April 16, 2016 14:43
Studio is one thing and live show in front of people is another thing.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: April 16, 2016 18:08
Quote
eduardoacdc
Studio is one thing and live show in front of people is another thing.
Exactly. My prime example would be Brown Sugar. The studio version is great, but when played live at that tempo it just SOUNDS too slow in my opinion. I liked it better when they used to kick it up a notch. Live, they have a hard time capturing that slinky, sinewy feel that makes the studio version work at that slower tempo.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
Delta
()
Date: April 16, 2016 18:15
One of the reasons the Rusted Wreck sounds so good now, is that the songs are done at the right tempo.Chuck sets the tempo but they are most likely at the tempo that Keith likes. Of course jagger wants them faster but sometimes they lose the groove when they are played too fast.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
FrankG
()
Date: April 16, 2016 18:16
Quote
HonkeyTonkFlashQuote
eduardoacdc
Studio is one thing and live show in front of people is another thing.
Exactly. My prime example would be Brown Sugar. The studio version is great, but when played live at that tempo it just SOUNDS too slow in my opinion. I liked it better when they used to kick it up a notch. Live, they have a hard time capturing that slinky, sinewy feel that makes the studio version work at that slower tempo.
Although I might agree on Brown Sugar, Tumbling Dice and Miss you (especially when you listen to the 12inch version) are for me typical groove songs that are played too fast in concert. On the other hand, with the adrenaline on stage it is quite normal that songs are played faster on stage.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
dmay
()
Date: April 16, 2016 19:27
It's called "getting old", folks. Many fine souls slows down a bit as they gets older, including rock stars. Ya comes to know well the meaning of the song line, "I'm built for comfort, I ain't built for speed."
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
FrankG
()
Date: April 16, 2016 19:35
Quote
dmay
It's called "getting old", folks. Many fine souls slows down a bit as they gets older, including rock stars. Ya comes to know well the meaning of the song line, "I'm built for comfort, I ain't built for speed."
A bit OT but I saw Willie Dixon perform that song when Sugar Blue (harmonica on MY) was in his band. Willie introduced that song saying "I'm built for comfort, he (pointing at Sugar Blue) is built for speed"
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
ElGeordie
()
Date: April 16, 2016 19:52
The click track thing is true - I have a set list from the ABB tour which has the tempos in BPM listed for every song as well as the key.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: April 16, 2016 20:00
Cool...would love to see a picture of that!Quote
ElGeordie
The click track thing is true - I have a set list from the ABB tour which has the tempos in BPM listed for every song as well as the key.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: April 16, 2016 20:13
Click tracks, samples and other tricks are only one step away from playback performances.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: April 16, 2016 20:22
Quote
Stoneage
Click tracks, samples and other tricks are only one step away from playback performances.
Sympathy For The Devil has become just a shot away from such, sadly.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 16, 2016 20:35
Chuck has lights indicating the beat per minutes, not a click track on his in-ear-monitor, I believe.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: April 16, 2016 20:38
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Chuck has lights indicating the beat per minutes, not a click track on his in-ear-monitor, I believe.[/quote
Think I heard that too.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
Captainchaos
()
Date: April 16, 2016 21:53
click doesnt bother me when done right, you can play with the click and move around it as a player, sometimes alittle early, sometimes a little late, sometimes on it.
But the thing that is annoying is the same click through the song, songs breathe, slow doen ,speed up, click tracks can be programmed to do this too soo you can do all the above but to a click track that has a variable BPM.
Most often tho, probly 99% of the time everyone just uses a fixed bpm click which for me is pants. When everything else has been practiced, planned, prepped, with alot of time & energy it just seems mental to cop out and use a fixed BPM. why not spend alittle time and sort the bpm out so its not fixed (or not AS fixed)
most current bands use a click, allows them to trigger all the sampled/extra tracks the use when playing 'live'.. booorrrriiinnngg
But the thing that is annoying is the same click through the song, songs breathe, slow doen ,speed up, click tracks can be programmed to do this too soo you can do all the above but to a click track that has a variable BPM.
Most often tho, probly 99% of the time everyone just uses a fixed bpm click which for me is pants. When everything else has been practiced, planned, prepped, with alot of time & energy it just seems mental to cop out and use a fixed BPM. why not spend alittle time and sort the bpm out so its not fixed (or not AS fixed)
most current bands use a click, allows them to trigger all the sampled/extra tracks the use when playing 'live'.. booorrrriiinnngg
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: April 18, 2016 03:44
'Shattered" is a prime example IMO where too fast ruins the song.
I think Jagger must prefer faster tempos because it has to be a lot harder for him to keep a stadium full of rowdy, drunk fans jumping on a slow groove like HTW or TD.
I think Jagger must prefer faster tempos because it has to be a lot harder for him to keep a stadium full of rowdy, drunk fans jumping on a slow groove like HTW or TD.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: April 18, 2016 03:49
I've never seen them capture the excitement of Get Off of My Cloud since they started playing it again a few years back. Both times I heard it, 2005, and 2013 they play it like a waltz. The whole selling point of the song is the adrenaline frenzy. Face it, we ain't going to ever hear Live With Me performed like it was on Ya Yas.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
SweetCousinCocaine
()
Date: April 18, 2016 06:19
Quote
24FPS
I've never seen them capture the excitement of Get Off of My Cloud since they started playing it again a few years back. Both times I heard it, 2005, and 2013 they play it like a waltz. The whole selling point of the song is the adrenaline frenzy. Face it, we ain't going to ever hear Live With Me performed like it was on Ya Yas.
Where did you hear "Get Off of My Cloud" in 2013? I thought it was nice and fast on June 6 in Toronto.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 18, 2016 09:59
Quote
24FPS
I've never seen them capture the excitement of Get Off of My Cloud since they started playing it again a few years back. Both times I heard it, 2005, and 2013 they play it like a waltz. The whole selling point of the song is the adrenaline frenzy. Face it, we ain't going to ever hear Live With Me performed like it was on Ya Yas.
Charlie needs to start this one, like on the studio version. I really think something would have happened if they did it this way.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: April 18, 2016 13:54
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
24FPS
I've never seen them capture the excitement of Get Off of My Cloud since they started playing it again a few years back. Both times I heard it, 2005, and 2013 they play it like a waltz. The whole selling point of the song is the adrenaline frenzy. Face it, we ain't going to ever hear Live With Me performed like it was on Ya Yas.
Charlie needs to start this one, like on the studio version. I really think something would have happened if they did it this way.
Yeah, I just saw a video of Tokyo Dome 2014, where Cloud was the opener and it really felt too slow. Charlie did start it, but only after a count in by Chuck. Loved the way they did it back in 75-76!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-18 13:55 by HonkeyTonkFlash.
Re: Is the correct tempo a bad thing?
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: April 18, 2016 13:58
Quote
HonkeyTonkFlash
Listening to a lot of live stuff lately and what bothers me about the Stones live from 2012 on is that a lot of songs sound too slow. Now I realize that for the most part they are actually playing them at the proper recorded tempos but they always used to kick the tempos up in concert, which I feel added to the excitement level. When done live, the proper tempos just sound too slow to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
I used to love when they kick the tempos up in Concerts like with Rambler on Ya Ya's..but nowadays...Slow Down and make it proper instead...
2 1 2 0
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
eduardoacdc , hockenheim95 , jp.M , keefmick , lenchik , michaelrobert , mtripoli , Musicwinn , Nankstone , RollstoDRSC , snarf2014 , Topi , TW2019 , waterrats , wupperstein
Guests:
1095
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10