They managed on Start Me Up to get away with a more modern mix for that time. Not often since.

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TeddyB1018
They managed on Start Me Up to get away with a more modern mix for that time. Not often since.

On that track Mick delivered one of his best vocals ever, though.

I fully agree about modern mixes not being very suitable for the Stones's sound, but I think the problem arose when fully digital recording processes occured in the 90s. On SW Mick is still integratedly mixed into the soundscape. On Love Is Strong he is on the top of it. That's when we started to hear every breath and grunt..

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DandelionPowderman
On SW Mick is still integratedly mixed into the soundscape. On Love Is Strong he is on the top of it. That's when we started to hear every breath and grunt..

Still, I really love Love is Strong.
And many more songs from 1995 onward. I friend of mine, who has singing lessons, explained
one day to me how he learned to use a "twang" when singing to save his voice reaching
for high notes. I don't know much about these technics, but the way he put it, it gives
the idea you're listening to a duck singing.

I think the use of "twang" should be forbidden for Rock 'n Roll singers....

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

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marcovandereijk

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DandelionPowderman
On SW Mick is still integratedly mixed into the soundscape. On Love Is Strong he is on the top of it. That's when we started to hear every breath and grunt..

Still, I really love Love is Strong.
And many more songs from 1995 onward. I friend of mine, who has singing lessons, explained
one day to me how he learned to use a "twang" when singing to save his voice reaching
for high notes. I don't know much about these technics, but the way he put it, it gives
the idea you're listening to a duck singing.

I think the use of "twang" should be forbidden for Rock 'n Roll singers....

I do, too. If the song is good, the song is good, no question about it.

Still, something happened to the uniqueness of the Stones's sound, and Mick in particular.

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TeddyB1018
They managed on Start Me Up to get away with a more modern mix for that time. Not often since.

Oh yeah. Start Me Up is great. But that's from the last really great album they made. After that, the sound is still alright on Undercover, which isn't a bad album.
After that: downhill.

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marcovandereijk

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DandelionPowderman
On SW Mick is still integratedly mixed into the soundscape. On Love Is Strong he is on the top of it. That's when we started to hear every breath and grunt..

Still, I really love Love is Strong.
And many more songs from 1995 onward. I friend of mine, who has singing lessons, explained
one day to me how he learned to use a "twang" when singing to save his voice reaching
for high notes. I don't know much about these technics, but the way he put it, it gives
the idea you're listening to a duck singing.

I think the use of "twang" should be forbidden for Rock 'n Roll singers....

There are certain post-80s songs (not albums) that I like, but the sound is never very good. One Hit, Love Is Strong, You Got Me Rocking, Thief In The Night, Doom and Gloom. Great songs, but would have profited from a more murky, swampy, dirty sound.

I really REALLY wish they would release (or someone would "leak") whatever the ORIGINAL, untampered, unoverdubbed, unfinished, actual "whatever it was when they left it alone in 1972" version, without the vocals and overdubs. I'm mainly just dying to know what it was originally like.

That's never surfaced anywhere, so far -- right?

I've never been able to put my finger on it, but I've often wondered if maybe the track is looped, or copied and pasted, and it's really just the same bedrock verse/chorus spliced and repeated ....not sure, something about it is weird, can't put my finger on it. I do love the track, though. The intro is especially beautiful.

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DancelittleSister

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DandelionPowderman

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ab
Never understood people's fondness for Plundered My Soul.

I think it has a lot to do with Taylor being back, hence people are loving it for sentimental reasons. I could be wrong, though.

Taylor only had a minor role apart from the intro.
Keith's sound.... Jagger's vocals.. not bad for a 65+ singer. Great song imo.

Not sure which version you've been listening to, but on the UK and US release it is Taylor's guitarplaying that's all over the track. His lead guitar (solo) is more prominent on the UK single.

Keith is almost inaudible, as only some unremarkable remnant strumming was on the original tape and he didn't add any overdubs. In fact, he was completely unaware that Jagger & Taylor had reworked the song in late 2009.

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Somethinelse

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DancelittleSister

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DandelionPowderman

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ab
Never understood people's fondness for Plundered My Soul.

I think it has a lot to do with Taylor being back, hence people are loving it for sentimental reasons. I could be wrong, though.

Taylor only had a minor role apart from the intro.
Keith's sound.... Jagger's vocals.. not bad for a 65+ singer. Great song imo.

Not sure which version you've been listening to, but on the UK and US release it is Taylor's guitarplaying that's all over the track. His lead guitar (solo) is more prominent on the UK single.

Keith is almost inaudible, as only some unremarkable remnant strumming was on the original tape and he didn't add any overdubs. In fact, he was completely unaware that Jagger & Taylor had reworked the song in late 2009.

Keith inaudible? Loud and clear to me. I pointed out in a previous post that 'Kleermaker's version', the one with the stripping blond lady footage is the best to me.Taylor is more audible there and he plays more fills. That's another good reason to prefer that outake.

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DancelittleSister

Keith inaudible? Loud and clear to me. I pointed out in a previous post that 'Kleermaker's version', the one with the stripping blond lady footage is the best to me. Taylor is more audible there and he plays more fills. That's another good reason to prefer that outake.

I was responding to your claim: "Taylor only had a minor role, apart from the intro".

I take it you're now disavowing your earlier statement ?
Compared to Taylor's extensive contributions to the track, Keith is inaudible (only strumming, and no new overdubs).
I hope you understand that there was no melody or anything to the outtake, it was basically just bass and drums and faint rhythm guitar.

The vocal parts (Jagger) and electric guitars (Taylor) are what makes the song and they were recorded in 2009. Acoustic guitar is 2009 Jagger, not Keith.

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Somethinelse

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DancelittleSister

Keith inaudible? Loud and clear to me. I pointed out in a previous post that 'Kleermaker's version', the one with the stripping blond lady footage is the best to me. Taylor is more audible there and he plays more fills. That's another good reason to prefer that outake.

I was responding to your claim: "Taylor only had a minor role, apart from the intro".

I take it you're now disavowing your earlier statement ?
Compared to Taylor's extensive contributions to the track, Keith is inaudible (only strumming, and no new overdubs).
I hope you understand that there was no melody or anything to the outtake, it was basically just bass and drums and faint rhythm guitar.

The vocal parts (Jagger) and electric guitars (Taylor) are what makes the song and they were recorded in 2009. Acoustic guitar is 2009 Jagger, not Keith.

Disavowing my statement? No, I'm trying to explain in a more detailed way what I like about this song. But Keith "strumming"? Look that one up in the dictionary.
To me he sounds like a maniac cranking an Ampeg up to 11

The (Exile outtakes) weren't all recorded in the same place. Some of them I really remembered, but some I didn't remember at all. Some of them were really together - maybe the one you've heard, it was called Plundered My Soul, that was perfect, you didn't have to edit, it was all perfect. Some of the others were much more loose jams.
- Mick Jagger, 2010


I’ve put Mick Taylor on Plundered My Soul, because he wasn’t on it. I wasn’t on it, he wasn’t on it, so obviously we were driving to the studio when that was done (laughs)... (I)t was very nice, it was just like the old days, you know, I just sat Mick down and we did it like half an hour...
- Mick Jagger, 2010

(I)t was one of Mick's songs. It was among the outtakes that had to be finished. Actually, some of them were finished. But this particular song didn't have a vocal on it and it didn't have any lead guitar. It just had Keith Richards, Bill Wyman and Charlie Watts playing on it. So he asked me to step into the studio one afternoon, and I did some guitar in about three or four passes. I thought it turned out well.

- Mick Taylor, 2012

It's not typical of Exile on Main Street - it's just that it was recorded during that period. It's got backup vocals and things on it that were done a couple of years ago. The original track is just sort of Keith's rhythm guitar, Bill Wyman's bass playing and Charlie Watts' drumming, and it's very raw.

- Mick Taylor, 2012

Let me get this straight.
You first stated that Taylor only had a minor role in this, and his main contribution was the intro.

Then you brought up a YT video (which is simply an upload from an official release, not a new version or anything), and said this is where Taylor can be heard best and he plays 'fills'. (He doesn't really play fills by the way. It's his playing and Jagger's singing that carry the melody).

So which one is it ? It can't be both. Either Taylor is only playing the intro or - if you're willing to acknowledge that he plays lead guitar - then it's obvious he's all over the track.

And at which point in the YT video referenced do you hear Keith cranking up his amp ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-02 00:26 by Somethinelse.

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mtaylor

It's not typical of Exile on Main Street - it's just that it was recorded during that period. It's got backup vocals and things on it that were done a couple of years ago. The original track is just sort of Keith's rhythm guitar, Bill Wyman's bass playing and Charlie Watts' drumming, and it's very raw.

- Mick Taylor, 2012

Well said, although to me it sounds typical Exile on Main Street....

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DandelionPowderman

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TeddyB1018
They managed on Start Me Up to get away with a more modern mix for that time. Not often since.

On that track Mick delivered one of his best vocals ever, though.

I fully agree about modern mixes not being very suitable for the Stones's sound, but I think the problem arose when fully digital recording processes occured in the 90s. On SW Mick is still integratedly mixed into the soundscape. On Love Is Strong he is on the top of it. That's when we started to hear every breath and grunt..

I don't give a F**K about these SOUND details. It's all about THE ROLLING STONES and THE SONGS they play. I have been listening to crap sound bootleg versions from the age of 14. Gimme more songs recorded by fans through bathroomwindows like in Rotterdam 1975 or from the streets in Paris 2012 !!!

"Mick delivered one of his best vocals ever, though"...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-02 00:35 by RipThisBone.

??

SMU isn't one of Mick's best vocals?

You like Mick high in the mix, RipThisBone?

Mick's vocals are amazing on start me up. Start me up is not a particularly creative song; rather, it is the band (singer included) at the top of their recording craft.

How anyone can't hear Keith's guitar on Plundered must be deaf. Taylor's playing sounds as good as it did in 1971. And whoever thought he did just the intro, if that really is what was said, is obviously deaf as well! The UK single mix has much more Taylor in it than the LP version.

Plundered UK Single Version
[www.youtube.com]

Found my excellent copy of Guitar Player Keith Exile cover issue dated June 2010.

Richards overdubbed some guitar on a few tracks, but stresses that he did as little as possible.

"I brushed a little acoustic guitar, I can't even remember what song now. The original guitar track sort of stuttered and fell apart halfway through. so Don (Was) said 'Well we better replace that'. But that's all I did really. As I said to Don, these tracks already are Exile, because they come out of that dusty basement. You can't really screw with them that much. Just tack them on. They are what they are, right from the same place".

Richards also speaks fondly of his former co-guitarist Mick Taylor. Richards denies rumours that Taylor, who left the band in late 1974, contributed overdubs to the reissue package.

"That's a rumour babe.. if he was on there, I would know. We've had no contact with Mick for a long time".



Shows Keith's lack of input and interest during these cleaning up sessions which was ultimately led by Mick Jagger and Don Was.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Vocals should not be buried in the mix, I mean ''If You Can't Rock Me'' on IORR is kind of ruined by it.
Mick's vocals on these ''new'' Exile tracks are a tiny bit upfront in the mix though, but that's how they're mixed lived nowadays so it's not a big disaster.

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Hairball
Found my excellent copy of Guitar Player Keith Exile cover issue dated June 2010.

Richards overdubbed some guitar on a few tracks, but stresses that he did as little as possible.

"I brushed a little acoustic guitar, I can't even remember what song now. The original guitar track sort of stuttered and fell apart halfway through. so Don (Was) said 'Well we better replace that'. But that's all I did really.

I guess he forgot he added those chicken strangled notes to the end of So Divine!

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Hairball
Found my excellent copy of Guitar Player Keith Exile cover issue dated June 2010.

Richards overdubbed some guitar on a few tracks, but stresses that he did as little as possible.

"I brushed a little acoustic guitar, I can't even remember what song now. The original guitar track sort of stuttered and fell apart halfway through. so Don (Was) said 'Well we better replace that'. But that's all I did really. As I said to Don, these tracks already are Exile, because they come out of that dusty basement. You can't really screw with them that much. Just tack them on. They are what they are, right from the same place".

Richards also speaks fondly of his former co-guitarist Mick Taylor. Richards denies rumours that Taylor, who left the band in late 1974, contributed overdubs to the reissue package.

"That's a rumour babe.. if he was on there, I would know. We've had no contact with Mick for a long time".



Shows Keith's lack of input and interest during these cleaning up sessions which was ultimately led by Mick Jagger and Don Was.

He also played electric guitar on So Divine and Dancing In The Light.

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DandelionPowderman

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Hairball
Found my excellent copy of Guitar Player Keith Exile cover issue dated June 2010.

Richards overdubbed some guitar on a few tracks, but stresses that he did as little as possible.

"I brushed a little acoustic guitar, I can't even remember what song now. The original guitar track sort of stuttered and fell apart halfway through. so Don (Was) said 'Well we better replace that'. But that's all I did really. As I said to Don, these tracks already are Exile, because they come out of that dusty basement. You can't really screw with them that much. Just tack them on. They are what they are, right from the same place".

Richards also speaks fondly of his former co-guitarist Mick Taylor. Richards denies rumours that Taylor, who left the band in late 1974, contributed overdubs to the reissue package.

"That's a rumour babe.. if he was on there, I would know. We've had no contact with Mick for a long time".



Shows Keith's lack of input and interest during these cleaning up sessions which was ultimately led by Mick Jagger and Don Was.

He also played electric guitar on So Divine and Dancing In The Light.

Interesting that he makes no mention of that.
This article/cover issue was dedicated to Exile, and the promotion of the deluxe re-issue...maybe he completely forgot or just didn't care about it.
Or maybe he didn't even know he was on it just like he didn't know MT was on it haha.

The majority of the article is great though - very lengthy history and discussion about the making of the original Exile.
If I had a scanner....

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Does anyone have a definitive answer on which guitars are played by who on PMS?

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Turner68
Does anyone have a definitive answer on which guitars are played by who on PMS?

Keith Richards - Rhythm guitar
Mick Taylor - Lead guitar
Acoustic - Mick Jagger

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GasLightStreet

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Turner68
Does anyone have a definitive answer on which guitars are played by who on PMS?

Keith Richards - Rhythm guitar
Mick Taylor - Lead guitar
Acoustic - Mick Jagger

Almost right.

Keith Richards - Rhythm guitar (old)
Mick Taylor - Lead guitar & rhythm guitar (new)
Mick Jagger - Acoustic

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Somethinelse

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GasLightStreet

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Turner68
Does anyone have a definitive answer on which guitars are played by who on PMS?

Keith Richards - Rhythm guitar
Mick Taylor - Lead guitar
Acoustic - Mick Jagger

Almost right.

Keith Richards - Rhythm guitar (old)
Mick Taylor - Lead guitar & rhythm guitar (new)
Mick Jagger - Acoustic

Taylor plays only leads throughout the song, not rhythm.

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GasLightStreet

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Somethinelse

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GasLightStreet

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Turner68
Does anyone have a definitive answer on which guitars are played by who on PMS?

Keith Richards - Rhythm guitar
Mick Taylor - Lead guitar
Acoustic - Mick Jagger

Almost right.

Keith Richards - Rhythm guitar (old)
Mick Taylor - Lead guitar & rhythm guitar (new)
Mick Jagger - Acoustic

Taylor plays only leads throughout the song, not rhythm.

That is what I am hearing. However, according to people who were present during the recording, Taylor also laid down rhythm guitar.

I can't hear that, though...

Mick's acoustic is also new.

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DandelionPowderman

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GasLightStreet

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Somethinelse

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GasLightStreet

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Turner68
Does anyone have a definitive answer on which guitars are played by who on PMS?

Keith Richards - Rhythm guitar
Mick Taylor - Lead guitar
Acoustic - Mick Jagger

Almost right.

Keith Richards - Rhythm guitar (old)
Mick Taylor - Lead guitar & rhythm guitar (new)
Mick Jagger - Acoustic

Taylor plays only leads throughout the song, not rhythm.

That is what I am hearing. However, according to people who were present during the recording, Taylor also laid down rhythm guitar.

I can't hear that, though...

I've never heard any Taylor rhythm - on either mix.