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keefriffhards

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HMS
Would rather travel back in time to see the Stones in a 1962-club-performance than these drunky, chauvinistic Rat-Pack-guys in their smokings telling cheap and more often than not racist jokes before an audience of Hollywood moguls, starlets, bankers, mobsters & gamblers.

The Rat Pack all loved Sammy Davis Jnr . They helped him out so many times. No way were the Rat pack racist
Sammy was a member remember !!
Where did you get that from ?
Drunken ?? Err come on the Stones fall into that catogory at times lol Chauvinistic ?? Have you read Jagger Richards lyrics

Exactly, I just rolled my eyes at the other comment.

And it would also be fun to time travel back to the 80s and party with the Brat pack. The 80s get a lot of crap, but it sure was a fun time to live

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keefriffhards

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HMS
Would rather travel back in time to see the Stones in a 1962-club-performance than these drunky, chauvinistic Rat-Pack-guys in their smokings telling cheap and more often than not racist jokes before an audience of Hollywood moguls, starlets, bankers, mobsters & gamblers.

The Rat Pack all loved Sammy Davis Jnr . They helped him out so many times. No way were the Rat pack racist
Sammy was a member remember !!
Where did you get that from ?
Drunken ?? Err come on the Stones fall into that catogory at times lol Chauvinistic ?? Have you read Jagger Richards lyrics

Listened to a Rat-Pack-Live-CD some years ago and in the comedy part of the show the constantly made jokes about Sammy´s color, called him "one-eyed jew" and on and on. The audience laughed their guts out. I know Frank was in reality the opposite of a racist, but these jokes were cheap. What was that good for - pleasing a racist audience? Remember these were the early 60s...

Apart from all this, Frank was not only a singer, he was a true artist in the best sense of the word. He was the best singer in popular music the world has ever known or will ever know. He will stand on top of the mountain forever.

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HMS

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keefriffhards

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HMS
Would rather travel back in time to see the Stones in a 1962-club-performance than these drunky, chauvinistic Rat-Pack-guys in their smokings telling cheap and more often than not racist jokes before an audience of Hollywood moguls, starlets, bankers, mobsters & gamblers.

The Rat Pack all loved Sammy Davis Jnr . They helped him out so many times. No way were the Rat pack racist
Sammy was a member remember !!
Where did you get that from ?
Drunken ?? Err come on the Stones fall into that catogory at times lol Chauvinistic ?? Have you read Jagger Richards lyrics

Listened to a Rat-Pack-Live-CD some years ago and in the comedy part of the show the constantly made jokes about Sammy´s color, called him "one-eyed jew" and on and on. The audience laughed their guts out. I know Frank was in reality the opposite of a racist, but these jokes were cheap. What was that good for - pleasing a racist audience? Remember these were the early 60s...

Apart from all this, Frank was not only a singer, he was a true artist in the best sense of the word. He was the best singer in popular music the world has ever known or will ever know. He will stand on top of the mountain forever.

Yeah, it got pretty bad and very curious since frank was a huge civil rights supporter. The documentary covers this as mostly a bad and inexplicable lapse of judgement. Not his finest moment.

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Turner68

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HMS

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keefriffhards

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HMS
Would rather travel back in time to see the Stones in a 1962-club-performance than these drunky, chauvinistic Rat-Pack-guys in their smokings telling cheap and more often than not racist jokes before an audience of Hollywood moguls, starlets, bankers, mobsters & gamblers.

The Rat Pack all loved Sammy Davis Jnr . They helped him out so many times. No way were the Rat pack racist
Sammy was a member remember !!
Where did you get that from ?
Drunken ?? Err come on the Stones fall into that catogory at times lol Chauvinistic ?? Have you read Jagger Richards lyrics

Listened to a Rat-Pack-Live-CD some years ago and in the comedy part of the show the constantly made jokes about Sammy´s color, called him "one-eyed jew" and on and on. The audience laughed their guts out. I know Frank was in reality the opposite of a racist, but these jokes were cheap. What was that good for - pleasing a racist audience? Remember these were the early 60s...

Apart from all this, Frank was not only a singer, he was a true artist in the best sense of the word. He was the best singer in popular music the world has ever known or will ever know. He will stand on top of the mountain forever.

Yeah, it got pretty bad and very curious since frank was a huge civil rights supporter. The documentary covers this as mostly a bad and inexplicable lapse of judgement. Not his finest moment.

Times were different then..you could get away with that humor back then but now it's unacceptable...for example Hulk Hogan

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reg thorpe

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Turner68

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HMS

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keefriffhards

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HMS
Would rather travel back in time to see the Stones in a 1962-club-performance than these drunky, chauvinistic Rat-Pack-guys in their smokings telling cheap and more often than not racist jokes before an audience of Hollywood moguls, starlets, bankers, mobsters & gamblers.

The Rat Pack all loved Sammy Davis Jnr . They helped him out so many times. No way were the Rat pack racist
Sammy was a member remember !!
Where did you get that from ?
Drunken ?? Err come on the Stones fall into that catogory at times lol Chauvinistic ?? Have you read Jagger Richards lyrics

Listened to a Rat-Pack-Live-CD some years ago and in the comedy part of the show the constantly made jokes about Sammy´s color, called him "one-eyed jew" and on and on. The audience laughed their guts out. I know Frank was in reality the opposite of a racist, but these jokes were cheap. What was that good for - pleasing a racist audience? Remember these were the early 60s...

Apart from all this, Frank was not only a singer, he was a true artist in the best sense of the word. He was the best singer in popular music the world has ever known or will ever know. He will stand on top of the mountain forever.

Yeah, it got pretty bad and very curious since frank was a huge civil rights supporter. The documentary covers this as mostly a bad and inexplicable lapse of judgement. Not his finest moment.

Times were different then..you could get away with that humor back then but now it's unacceptable...for example Hulk Hogan

The point i was trying to make is this
Jokes aside, i don't think Dean Martin or Frank Sinatra were racist
They would not make those jokes today, and rightly so
It's difficult to make judgements about these things today, because so much has changed since then. It's a bit unfair to judge people morally on jokes they said in the 1960's, as they had no idea of their ignorance
It was wrongly accepted then

And only the crystal ball knows what terms and slang we use these days which will horrify the social justice warriors of 2050-2060.

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HMS
Would rather travel back in time to see the Stones in a 1962-club-performance than these drunky, chauvinistic Rat-Pack-guys in their smokings telling cheap and more often than not racist jokes before an audience of Hollywood moguls, starlets, bankers, mobsters & gamblers.

not a fan of Sin city (Las Vegas) ?

Haven't read the whole thread, but a sad comment re Sammy Davis Jr., and certain times, is that, until the late 1960s, his name would be in big letters on the marquee outside a casino when appearing there, but he was still made to go around to the back of whatever casino he was appearing in and use the service entrance to get inside the casino. On another note, Davis wrote his autobigraphy twice. The second was an update and embellishment on the first where, because times had changed, he was freer to tell his story and make comments on people, places and things. An extremely talented man and performer. If you want to hear something by him that is sweet, simple and revealing of his singing ability, check out the album "Sammy Davis, Jr. Sings and Laurindo Almeida Plays". An excellent listen especially nice with the lights down low, some JD on the rocks and your head laid back against the seat cushion. Follow Sammy with Almeida with Sinatra's album with Almeida. You'll be having your own Rat Pack gathering.

frank was the man-no way did he ever let a casino make one of his guys go into the place by the service entrance,if that was in sammy's biography he was most likely talking about shows he did without the rat pack.

there's a story they tell about sinatra in vegas-he picked his car up from the valet and told the kid"hey,what's the biggest tip you ever got?"

kid says "200 dollars" and sinatra said "well,here's 500"[this was in the 1960's]
as franks leaving he says"by the way.who gave you the $200 ?" valet says-"you did mr sinatra"

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lem motlow
frank was the man-no way did he ever let a casino make one of his guys go into the place by the service entrance,if that was in sammy's biography he was most likely talking about shows he did without the rat pack.

there's a story they tell about sinatra in vegas-he picked his car up from the valet and told the kid"hey,what's the biggest tip you ever got?"

kid says "200 dollars" and sinatra said "well,here's 500"[this was in the 1960's]
as franks leaving he says"by the way.who gave you the $200 ?" valet says-"you did mr sinatra"

haha brilliant

New James Kaplan Bio of Frank Sinatra is out.

[www.amazon.com]

What an all around entertainer and very interesting cat!

I´ve had my share of Sinatra songs for this year...
at the Dylan show in Hamburg. Yawn.

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latebloomer
New James Kaplan Bio of Frank Sinatra is out.

[www.amazon.com]

Yes and there are striking similarities between off stage Mick and Sinatra.

ESQUIRE MAGAZINE (1985): "Do you like Sinatra?"

MICK JAGGER: "Hate him."

ESQUIRE: "Why?"

JAGGER: "He's not much of a role model, is he? I don't like his music very much, either."

Sammy had his Stones connection as well:





Sammy Davis Jr with Wyman backstage at The London Palladium early evening, 8th October 1976.

Frank Sinatra was the Mick Jagger of his generation, a much loved performer for those of a certain age. I thought he was cool as a cucumber and comparisons of his woman, booze and music lifestyle sure have some analogies to the sex, drugs and rock and roll of the Stones. The Rat Pack patented the elegantly wasted image that Keith would come to epitomize in later years, while Frank, like Mick, seemed to float above it all somehow.

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Turner68

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HMS

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keefriffhards

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HMS
Would rather travel back in time to see the Stones in a 1962-club-performance than these drunky, chauvinistic Rat-Pack-guys in their smokings telling cheap and more often than not racist jokes before an audience of Hollywood moguls, starlets, bankers, mobsters & gamblers.

The Rat Pack all loved Sammy Davis Jnr . They helped him out so many times. No way were the Rat pack racist
Sammy was a member remember !!
Where did you get that from ?
Drunken ?? Err come on the Stones fall into that catogory at times lol Chauvinistic ?? Have you read Jagger Richards lyrics

Listened to a Rat-Pack-Live-CD some years ago and in the comedy part of the show the constantly made jokes about Sammy´s color, called him "one-eyed jew" and on and on. The audience laughed their guts out. I know Frank was in reality the opposite of a racist, but these jokes were cheap. What was that good for - pleasing a racist audience? Remember these were the early 60s...

Apart from all this, Frank was not only a singer, he was a true artist in the best sense of the word. He was the best singer in popular music the world has ever known or will ever know. He will stand on top of the mountain forever.

Yeah, it got pretty bad and very curious since frank was a huge civil rights supporter. The documentary covers this as mostly a bad and inexplicable lapse of judgement. Not his finest moment.

The Sinatra documentary on Netflix focused on the racist jokes, saying the members were far from racists, but the crowd liked that they played around with Sammy. After a while it went a bit out of hand coming to the point that Sammy didn't enjoy it anymore..

When you reach a certain age, Frank Sinatra's mastery of/importance to American popular music becomes undeniable. Its grownup music (hated it as a teen, like most yutes). I'm guessing at some point he must have given his old school New Jersey opinion of a certain skinny foppish english long hair prancing around in mascara and a sequined jumpsuit, which is why Mick says he hated him. But Frank was a heavyweight musically- good actor too.

And to think Sinatra later called SOMETHING "My favorite Lennon & McCartney song," (according to Paul on Later with Bob Costas).

It was Frank's world. We just lived in it.

I have posted this before, but I love this performance (and the whole show is great):

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-14 19:06 by pmk251.

SInatra will always be the standard to use regarding singing. Interestingly, SInatra once said Tony Bennett was a better singer than him. Both are superb.

My favorite Sinatra quotes:

WE FEEL SORRY FOR PEOLPE THAT DON'T DRINK, BECAUSE WHEN THEY GET UP IN THE MORNING, THAT'S THE BEST THEY ARE GONNA FEEL FOR THE REST OF THE DAY.

and the best:

MAY YOU LIVE TO BE ONE HUNDRED, AND MAY MY VOICE BE THE LAST THING YOU HERE.

Hmmm...used to think the Stones playing Satisfaction was the last song I wanted to hear as I was called to the Pearly Gates. But, seeing the qoute above from lucifshmr about Sinatra on living to 100, I think my fave Sinatra song would be what I want to hear as I finally ease move over to the other side. Maybe Satisfaction could play right before it.

[www.youtube.com]

I want to hear 'Ring them bells' with Dylan as last song...



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dmay,

MAY YOU LIVE TO BE ONE HUNDRED, AND MAY MY VOICE BE THE LAST THING YOU HERE

It is an old toast said by someone before Frank. I forget where he got it, but I will try to find out. He bended it to fit HIS voice.

We begin our Family Sunday Dinner in my home with this,and my grandkids love it.
It means have a long life, and if you hear my voice that means I will there with you. So it's a wish of a long friendship or relationship.
Then the end is a wish that the toaster will last longer. Just a little dig.

Satisfaction for a last song? Not ever for me.That song like the term "Bucket- List" says only one thing to me.
If you need a "B-L", you f'n did it wrong. ;-D

Me, I could never end with Satisfaction, if only even for one reason.
In 1972 I stood 3 feet from the stage in the Spectrum between Bill and Kieth for both shows on July 20th and 21st. I was in the engine room for "Philly Special". Or at least as close as they would let a mortal man be.
I would have done it for the afternoon show too, but Stan the stage manager for the band that year gave me not too good tickets in the back and I took my buddies girlfriend in while he hung with Stan and Ollie Brown out back.
I got closer over the years, but that is one day I'll never forget for the rest of my life.
Some people get all wide-eyed when I tell them that story. So I guess that means "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" shouldn't ever be in my mind. Anyone else agree?

Fred



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-24 03:48 by lucifrshmr.

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Title5Take1
And to think Sinatra later called SOMETHING "My favorite Lennon & McCartney song," (according to Paul on Later with Bob Costas).

I recall he did it in concert, shortly after Lennon died, as a Lennon tribute mistakenly introducing it a Lennon/McCartney number.

Oh well, he meant well. He should have sang I Am The Walrus.

I wanted to get something before Frank died, so I had a friend get me this.



My Mother was a fanatic Frank fan all her life. Growing up in an Italian home it was expected back then. He just fit in with Enrico Caruso, and Mario Lanza. Some of my earliest musical memories.

My sweet Mom was a bobby-soxer back in the 40's and attended his shows in Philly, New York, and Atlantic City. She had a collection to die for as she told me. Signed handbills form the Paramount in NY and the like.She might have one of those skinny ties too. Well around 1952 she is getting ready to marry my Father and she looked at that stuff and thought it was silly to bring into a marriage, she had grown up now. So she gave it all away to the Philladelphia based Sinatra Fan Club.
Of course when I started collecting my Stones stuff and began to realize the worth of some of that Sinatra stuff I really got on her case."Ma, how could you do that to me, you could have at least kept some of it." Every time she complained about my collection all over the house I always brought it up, "we could have been rich with that stuff", we always had a laugh for the rest of her life.
She is gone now GRHS, but I stlll look up and complain to her even now.
Ma, I'm sill angry with you, and I know you can hear me.



One day I got this original photo behind something else I bought. It was a photo session they did together. You can find the session on the internet with a whole bunch of other photos too, but this one is not listed anywhere. Or at least I never found it. I always thought it was her way of making it up to me for selling her collection out from under me.
Ma, if your listening, and I know she is she is an Italian Mother, thanks. But I'm still mad. :-D