Tell Me :
Talk
(laughing)
Yes, I hear it too, but what's your point? Every LIVE album has overdubs.
I play STICKY FINGERS LIVE 2015 (six or seven times) more than STICKY FINGERS DELUXE BONUS CD 2015 (one time as a whole and two times the outtakes).
Just curious what you guys are hearing that screams overdub? Thanks.
There are some corrections/overdubs, but they don't bother me at all. I DON'T CARE ANYWAY and SCREAM: STICKY FINGERS LIVE 2015 is a GREAT LIVE album.
LIVE IN TEXAS? BRUSSELS?
how about the STICKY FINGERS original release (as a whole, and also side one and side two separately)? also how often do you play the LOVE YOU LIVE version of brown sugar?
I hear ya and I'm not trying to be picky but that's not technically an overdub but an edit, something incredibly easy to do these days.Cut and paste with pitch and tempo corrections if necessary.
As far as the Fonda live release, lots of mixing and editing tricks could make the intro of CYHMK sound like more guitars. No doubt they added a delay on Keith's intro track to fatten it up, perhaps even doubled it. Jimmy Miller once talked about the tight slap back delay he used to get the amazing sound on that intro on the record. Perhaps they were trying to reproduce that somewhat. If they even got close it makes me even more anxious for the DVD/CD release.
If the live multitrack mix didn't sound better in some respects than the live show I'd be surprised. They have all the tools and time to get good clarity on all the instruments, fix slightly off vocals, get the relative levels perfect and even line up beats that are milliseconds off. Bob Clearmountain probably took over a week to properly mix a 2 hour show.
i think the big point you're making is that no "live" show is ever unaltered, the simple act of amplifying and recording sound means that alterations are happening, and no one should think that what they here is exactly what was played.
obviously this point can be taken step further, as no two seats in the house hear exactly the same show in a live performance.
that's a good point. on ya-ya's they did overdubbing, and now all the guitars are perfectly in tune. if any of the guitars were out of tune on the official release, then obviously there would have been no overdubbing.
hmm. doesn't sound right.
There was a time when live shows were recorded with some room mics and the feed from the stereo mix bus but almost all high end acts these record every show on multitracks with every instrument, vocal, cymbal, drum having at least on track. The average track count for most big acts is around 96 (2 48-track digital recorders sync'ed together) but can even be higher.
Mixing a live record these days is not much different than mixing a studio record. It's just a bunch of first take tracks instead of a bunch of best take tracks. So it is generally what the musicians played but it's usually going to sound different when the engineer is done.
Some people theorize that this is one of the reasons music sounds more sterile and manufactured these days. Back in the 60's these was much less post production control and much more bleed between instruments and true live sounding tracks. I always thought the title Let It Bleed was more about the bleeding of the instruments during the recording process, maybe it was?
It´s so easy living in the past. Because it is definitely gone ;-)
To me it sounds like tweo guitars: Keith and Ronnie ;-)
Yes, and Bobbey Keys as well :-)
i've heard living is easy with eyes closed too.
bump
That is HILARIOUS!
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Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
slewan
()
Date: July 14, 2015 22:38
what was obviously done is to mix the show in away that it's unlistenable on real stereo
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: July 14, 2015 22:41
Quote
triceratops
This should be interesting especially if Mick Taylor was brought in for a few overdubs (joking)
(laughing)
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
RipThisBone
()
Date: July 14, 2015 23:08
Quote
SuperC
Just listened to the apple download of Sticky Fingers set. Is it me or to anyone else's ear do you hear a number of overdubs. CYHMK in particular sounds especially "tampered with". I know a number of IORR followers have a far keener ear then I, so please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
Yes, I hear it too, but what's your point? Every LIVE album has overdubs.
I play STICKY FINGERS LIVE 2015 (six or seven times) more than STICKY FINGERS DELUXE BONUS CD 2015 (one time as a whole and two times the outtakes).
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: July 15, 2015 00:17
Quote
RipThisBoneQuote
SuperC
Just listened to the apple download of Sticky Fingers set. Is it me or to anyone else's ear do you hear a number of overdubs. CYHMK in particular sounds especially "tampered with". I know a number of IORR followers have a far keener ear then I, so please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
Yes, I hear it too, but what's your point? Every LIVE album has overdubs.
I play STICKY FINGERS LIVE 2015 (six or seven times) more than STICKY FINGERS DELUXE BONUS CD 2015 (one time as a whole and two times the outtakes).
Just curious what you guys are hearing that screams overdub? Thanks.
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
roller99
()
Date: July 15, 2015 00:25
I don't know if it's "overdubs" or mixing, I'll have to bow to your knowledge here Naturalust as it seems you have more background in the studio than I do. It sounded different in person. Much different. It sounds much better on the download than it was in person. Especially the bass. But perhaps at a live gig like that your placement has everything to do with the sound. Unfortunately, it's hard to classify this unless you are someone with a background in recording, and you were at the gig. Next time it happens, maybe I'll be able to float you a ticket and you can judge it. Sounds like you have an ear for it. I'm not as analytical. I just really love the sound of the download. I thought CYHMK was a big let down at the gig, and when I heard the download, it didn't even sound the same to me. The download is like "best version of this I've ever heard live", and at the Fonda, it wasn't even as good as San Diego a few nights later. How does that work? I would buy "I'm so thrilled to be there everything was great", but in this case it was the opposite. I was thrilled, but some songs just fell flat in my opinion. The download is much different.
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
SuperC
()
Date: July 15, 2015 00:25
For starters, the intro and riffing on CYHMK sounds as if there are 3 guitars, 2 playing the intro. If you listen to the Toronto Club show CHYMK from a few years back, for instance, there is distinctly one guitar (Keith, of course), playing the into.
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
RipThisBone
()
Date: July 15, 2015 00:25
Quote
NaturalustQuote
RipThisBoneQuote
SuperC
Just listened to the apple download of Sticky Fingers set. Is it me or to anyone else's ear do you hear a number of overdubs. CYHMK in particular sounds especially "tampered with". I know a number of IORR followers have a far keener ear then I, so please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
Yes, I hear it too, but what's your point? Every LIVE album has overdubs.
I play STICKY FINGERS LIVE 2015 (six or seven times) more than STICKY FINGERS DELUXE BONUS CD 2015 (one time as a whole and two times the outtakes).
Just curious what you guys are hearing that screams overdub? Thanks.
There are some corrections/overdubs, but they don't bother me at all. I DON'T CARE ANYWAY and SCREAM: STICKY FINGERS LIVE 2015 is a GREAT LIVE album.
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
SuperC
()
Date: July 15, 2015 00:43
Just curious as there didn't seem to be time to edit in the overdubs so soon after the actual show date, on-going touring, etc..... Overall, save the odd vocal pace on Sway that always seems to be an issue with that tune, I enjoyed the live versions at this particular show. Especially Moonlight, Morphine, I Got The Blues, & You Gotta Move. I do wish they'd tone down the horns on Bitch and re-emphasize the rhythm guitar a la Taylor's playing on the live 70's versions. Speaking of Taylor, Sway & CYHMK missed his work but the other tunes were well played by Wood. In terms of SF Deluxe, I listen to the live stuff from that release quite a bit more then the new SF live largely due to the versions of SCB, HTW, DF, Bitch being among my favorites takes of those tunes.
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: July 15, 2015 00:55
Quote
Testify
I think the Stones in their career they never released an official live without overdubs. If there is a mistake they correct you do this for the overdubs. It would be annoying to hear every time a mistake, especially when it is obvious.
LIVE IN TEXAS? BRUSSELS?
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: July 15, 2015 02:07
Brussels has overdobs. All Down The Line - Mick Taylor's solo from the 1st show was used whole the body of the song is from the 2nd show.Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
Testify
I think the Stones in their career they never released an official live without overdubs. If there is a mistake they correct you do this for the overdubs. It would be annoying to hear every time a mistake, especially when it is obvious.
LIVE IN TEXAS? BRUSSELS?
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: July 15, 2015 02:16
Quote
RipThisBoneQuote
SuperC
Just listened to the apple download of Sticky Fingers set. Is it me or to anyone else's ear do you hear a number of overdubs. CYHMK in particular sounds especially "tampered with". I know a number of IORR followers have a far keener ear then I, so please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
Yes, I hear it too, but what's your point? Every LIVE album has overdubs.
I play STICKY FINGERS LIVE 2015 (six or seven times) more than STICKY FINGERS DELUXE BONUS CD 2015 (one time as a whole and two times the outtakes).
how about the STICKY FINGERS original release (as a whole, and also side one and side two separately)? also how often do you play the LOVE YOU LIVE version of brown sugar?
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: July 15, 2015 02:32
Quote
ironbellyBrussels has overdobs. All Down The Line - Mick Taylor's solo from the 1st show was used whole the body of the song is from the 2nd show.Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
Testify
I think the Stones in their career they never released an official live without overdubs. If there is a mistake they correct you do this for the overdubs. It would be annoying to hear every time a mistake, especially when it is obvious.
LIVE IN TEXAS? BRUSSELS?
I hear ya and I'm not trying to be picky but that's not technically an overdub but an edit, something incredibly easy to do these days.Cut and paste with pitch and tempo corrections if necessary.
As far as the Fonda live release, lots of mixing and editing tricks could make the intro of CYHMK sound like more guitars. No doubt they added a delay on Keith's intro track to fatten it up, perhaps even doubled it. Jimmy Miller once talked about the tight slap back delay he used to get the amazing sound on that intro on the record. Perhaps they were trying to reproduce that somewhat. If they even got close it makes me even more anxious for the DVD/CD release.
If the live multitrack mix didn't sound better in some respects than the live show I'd be surprised. They have all the tools and time to get good clarity on all the instruments, fix slightly off vocals, get the relative levels perfect and even line up beats that are milliseconds off. Bob Clearmountain probably took over a week to properly mix a 2 hour show.
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: July 15, 2015 02:38
Quote
NaturalustQuote
ironbellyBrussels has overdobs. All Down The Line - Mick Taylor's solo from the 1st show was used whole the body of the song is from the 2nd show.Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
Testify
I think the Stones in their career they never released an official live without overdubs. If there is a mistake they correct you do this for the overdubs. It would be annoying to hear every time a mistake, especially when it is obvious.
LIVE IN TEXAS? BRUSSELS?
I hear ya and I'm not trying to be picky but that's not technically an overdub but an edit, something incredibly easy to do these days.Cut and paste with pitch and tempo corrections if necessary.
As far as the Fonda live release, lots of mixing and editing tricks could make the intro of CYHMK sound like more guitars. No doubt they added a delay on Keith's intro track to fatten it up, perhaps even doubled it. Jimmy Miller once talked about the tight slap back delay he used to get the amazing sound on that intro on the record. Perhaps they were trying to reproduce that somewhat. If they even got close it makes me even more anxious for the DVD/CD release.
If the live multitrack mix didn't sound better in some respects than the live show I'd be surprised. They have all the tools and time to get good clarity on all the instruments, fix slightly off vocals, get the relative levels perfect and even line up beats that are milliseconds off. Bob Clearmountain probably took over a week to properly mix a 2 hour show.
i think the big point you're making is that no "live" show is ever unaltered, the simple act of amplifying and recording sound means that alterations are happening, and no one should think that what they here is exactly what was played.
obviously this point can be taken step further, as no two seats in the house hear exactly the same show in a live performance.
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
donvis
()
Date: July 15, 2015 02:42
I don't believe there any overdubs. If there were why didn't they fix the vocal error in the second verse of Moonlight mile. "I am sleeping under strange strange skies" is the correct verse. It is not corrected on the download.
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: July 15, 2015 02:50
Quote
donvis
I don't believe there any overdubs. If there were why didn't they fix the vocal error in the second verse of Moonlight mile. "I am sleeping under strange strange skies" is the correct verse. It is not corrected on the download.
that's a good point. on ya-ya's they did overdubbing, and now all the guitars are perfectly in tune. if any of the guitars were out of tune on the official release, then obviously there would have been no overdubbing.
hmm. doesn't sound right.
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: July 15, 2015 02:56
Quote
Turner68Quote
NaturalustQuote
ironbellyBrussels has overdobs. All Down The Line - Mick Taylor's solo from the 1st show was used whole the body of the song is from the 2nd show.Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
Testify
I think the Stones in their career they never released an official live without overdubs. If there is a mistake they correct you do this for the overdubs. It would be annoying to hear every time a mistake, especially when it is obvious.
LIVE IN TEXAS? BRUSSELS?
I hear ya and I'm not trying to be picky but that's not technically an overdub but an edit, something incredibly easy to do these days.Cut and paste with pitch and tempo corrections if necessary.
As far as the Fonda live release, lots of mixing and editing tricks could make the intro of CYHMK sound like more guitars. No doubt they added a delay on Keith's intro track to fatten it up, perhaps even doubled it. Jimmy Miller once talked about the tight slap back delay he used to get the amazing sound on that intro on the record. Perhaps they were trying to reproduce that somewhat. If they even got close it makes me even more anxious for the DVD/CD release.
If the live multitrack mix didn't sound better in some respects than the live show I'd be surprised. They have all the tools and time to get good clarity on all the instruments, fix slightly off vocals, get the relative levels perfect and even line up beats that are milliseconds off. Bob Clearmountain probably took over a week to properly mix a 2 hour show.
i think the big point you're making is that no "live" show is ever unaltered, the simple act of amplifying and recording sound means that alterations are happening, and no one should think that what they here is exactly what was played.
obviously this point can be taken step further, as no two seats in the house hear exactly the same show in a live performance.
There was a time when live shows were recorded with some room mics and the feed from the stereo mix bus but almost all high end acts these record every show on multitracks with every instrument, vocal, cymbal, drum having at least on track. The average track count for most big acts is around 96 (2 48-track digital recorders sync'ed together) but can even be higher.
Mixing a live record these days is not much different than mixing a studio record. It's just a bunch of first take tracks instead of a bunch of best take tracks. So it is generally what the musicians played but it's usually going to sound different when the engineer is done.
Some people theorize that this is one of the reasons music sounds more sterile and manufactured these days. Back in the 60's these was much less post production control and much more bleed between instruments and true live sounding tracks. I always thought the title Let It Bleed was more about the bleeding of the instruments during the recording process, maybe it was?
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: July 15, 2015 03:05
the beatles at the star club in hamburg in 1962 has got to be one of the most
"authentic" live recordings ever if we define authentic as replicating what a single person sitting in the actual audience might have heard.
recorded with a single mike and released without any involvement of the beatles.
example:
[www.youtube.com]
i suppose this is true of most bootlegs though.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-15 03:10 by Turner68.
"authentic" live recordings ever if we define authentic as replicating what a single person sitting in the actual audience might have heard.
recorded with a single mike and released without any involvement of the beatles.
example:
[www.youtube.com]
i suppose this is true of most bootlegs though.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-15 03:10 by Turner68.
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
Cristiano Radtke
()
Date: July 15, 2015 17:09
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
Testify
()
Date: July 15, 2015 21:08
I always respected and appreciated Mick Taylor also after leaving the Stones, but this year this forum has managed to make me hate.
Possible that in any discussion where Taylor has nothing to do, you have to talk about him missing (stones) for 40 years? I am beginning to really hate him!
Possible that in any discussion where Taylor has nothing to do, you have to talk about him missing (stones) for 40 years? I am beginning to really hate him!
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
powerage78
()
Date: July 24, 2015 13:54
When you listen Deead flowers solo here and after listen to this... Well...
[www.youtube.com]
Beyond the solo, for me, the absolute genius of Mick Taylor is from 3'04 where solo finished, he keeps coming dressed the song harmonically with his licks, it's incredibly well positioned and musically fabulous.
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
[www.youtube.com]
Beyond the solo, for me, the absolute genius of Mick Taylor is from 3'04 where solo finished, he keeps coming dressed the song harmonically with his licks, it's incredibly well positioned and musically fabulous.
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
RockingLonestar
()
Date: July 24, 2015 15:23
Quote
Testify
I always respected and appreciated Mick Taylor also after leaving the Stones, but this year this forum has managed to make me hate.
Possible that in any discussion where Taylor has nothing to do, you have to talk about him missing (stones) for 40 years? I am beginning to really hate him!
It´s so easy living in the past. Because it is definitely gone ;-)
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
RockingLonestar
()
Date: July 24, 2015 15:25
Quote
SuperC
For starters, the intro and riffing on CYHMK sounds as if there are 3 guitars, 2 playing the intro. If you listen to the Toronto Club show CHYMK from a few years back, for instance, there is distinctly one guitar (Keith, of course), playing the into.
To me it sounds like tweo guitars: Keith and Ronnie ;-)
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
RockingLonestar
()
Date: July 24, 2015 15:31
Quote
triceratops
This should be interesting especially if Mick Taylor was brought in for a few overdubs (joking)
Yes, and Bobbey Keys as well :-)
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
powerage78
()
Date: July 24, 2015 16:22
YES, while the grim reality is here, ruthless and disappointing... 
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
Quote
RockingLonestarQuote
Testify
I always respected and appreciated Mick Taylor also after leaving the Stones, but this year this forum has managed to make me hate.
Possible that in any discussion where Taylor has nothing to do, you have to talk about him missing (stones) for 40 years? I am beginning to really hate him!
It´s so easy living in the past. Because it is definitely gone ;-)
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: July 24, 2015 23:03
Quote
RockingLonestarQuote
Testify
I always respected and appreciated Mick Taylor also after leaving the Stones, but this year this forum has managed to make me hate.
Possible that in any discussion where Taylor has nothing to do, you have to talk about him missing (stones) for 40 years? I am beginning to really hate him!
It´s so easy living in the past. Because it is definitely gone ;-)
i've heard living is easy with eyes closed too.
Re: Fonda Show - Overdubs?
Posted by:
pepganzo
()
Date: July 25, 2015 07:32
we can tell the same also for the intro of Brown Sugar of this releaseQuote
RockingLonestarQuote
SuperC
For starters, the intro and riffing on CYHMK sounds as if there are 3 guitars, 2 playing the intro. If you listen to the Toronto Club show CHYMK from a few years back, for instance, there is distinctly one guitar (Keith, of course), playing the into.
To me it sounds like tweo guitars: Keith and Ronnie ;-)
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: November 11, 2015 16:47
Quote
NaturalustQuote
StonedRamblerOkay so you don't want to believe it? >Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
StonedRamblerDefinitely pitch correction. The "lying" is just off in the yt video but not on the iTunes release.Quote
DandelionPowderman
No pitch correction, as Mick is quite off several times, including the "lying by your side-line".
It's okay and I can accept that but we shouldn't lie to ourselfes
It's off on the release as well, timing-wise and pitch-wise. You can even hear Mick going out of breath prior to it. Would have been easy to correct, but they didn't. There are probably 50 more examples on this release<
Here:
[www.dropbox.com]
Just for you
It's pretty subtle but I hear some definite correction on the new release. Nice catch Rambler.
bump
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: November 11, 2015 16:56
Quote
Turner68Quote
flacnvinyl
Just FYI... on the whole vinyl vs mp3 vs cd thing. A Bigger Bang is a prime example of vinyl being done POORLY. It is the exact same source as the CD. 44.1kHz, no added range, nothing. When artists/labels do not use a superior source for vinyl, the result is that the vinyl is absolutely pointless. It is tantamount to playing a CD and adding crackling to the soundscape.
Contrast that to any previous Stones vinyl and it is night and day. I remember listening to Undercover and Emotional Rescue over and over and over on vinyl. Then one day we picked up the CD (can't remember which one, it was over two decades ago) and I remember thinking 'where is the room?'. Vinyl was from the original source material, properly mastered from analog sources. The CD was fine, just couldn't match the presence of the analog playback.
Instead, if the same source is used there is simply no benefit. Honestly, given the Stones track record, I would bet that the vinyl will sound exactly the same as these mp3s. The muddy bass-heavy mix is so disappointing. I really don't get how so many people can enjoy it. I listened to Handsome Girls while mowing the lawn the other day and MAN does that thing sound amazing. Every single instrument mixed to perfection. Raw sound, clean, clear, lots of mids, drums mixed perfectly... Handsome Girls ROCKS. Then I put on the Fonda gig, just to see if my ears had changed. Nope, sounds like crap.
What lawnmower do you use? Was that a factor? I use a Stihl weed eater since I am in California and don't have a lawn.
That is HILARIOUS!
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
Rank Stranger
()
Date: November 11, 2015 19:58
I'm still hoping for the whole gig; I was expecting this for Christmas with another live release from the Zip Code tour.
Anybody got info on this?
Anybody got info on this?
Re: Sticky Fingers Live (Fonda Theatre 2015) officially on i-tunes
Posted by:
Green Lady
()
Date: November 11, 2015 22:22
I was still hoping for some way to acquire this legally that doesn't involve ITunes. *sigh*
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