Many thanks to Ron for sending me the link. I can do the same for someone else, just send me an email.

Testify
I am also from Greece. Have you tried the other thread about SF Live?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-07 11:37 by ahgriorr.

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maumau
thing that i dont like it is not what there is not on the record but something there is: the sound of sweet summer sun...

Can you please explain this one?
Can't say I dug the sound of ''Sweet Summer Sun''...

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yeababyyea

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maumau
thing that i dont like it is not what there is not on the record but something there is: the sound of sweet summer sun...

Can you please explain this one?
Can't say I dug the sound of ''Sweet Summer Sun''...

Neither did Maumau. He hears the same overcompression on this as on that and he doesn't like it.

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with sssoul

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yeababyyea

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maumau
thing that i dont like it is not what there is not on the record but something there is: the sound of sweet summer sun...

Can you please explain this one?
Can't say I dug the sound of ''Sweet Summer Sun''...

Neither did Maumau. He hears the same overcompression on this as on that and he doesn't like it.

thanks a lot with sssoul, I'm italian sometimes I write in English as if I am gesticulating it
dont you feel the same about the sound of it?
I was listening this morning on my pod, had this image of a flower not bloomed, each instrument and the whole sound. mick is prominent then it is as if each instrument is behind a layer. also the crowd, I cant feel the room, the space, it is like a block at a certain distance, it is particularly evident in YGM and IGTB where the music is lower and the crowd goes nuts, still you can't take a breath in it. think of mocambo, think of the terrific effect of "paint it black you devil" it is like a movie shot where you have different planes and your eye can move around from what is near and what is far. I am not a sound eng so I cant articulate it technically but sure know how I feel it



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-07 12:46 by maumau.

No problem Maumau - I dance hieroglyphics so I know the feeling :E

I tried listening to this again. Can't do it. Bob Clearmountain has lost his magic touch. This thing is muddy and compressed beyond enjoyment. I have deleted the MP3s and will wait for the vinyl pressing. Here's hoping they fix the mix before pressing the vinyl.

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flacnvinyl
I tried listening to this again. Can't do it. Bob Clearmountain has lost his magic touch. This thing is muddy and compressed beyond enjoyment. I have deleted the MP3s and will wait for the vinyl pressing. Here's hoping they fix the mix before pressing the vinyl.

From what I understand, the resurgence of vinyl is just a record company gimmick to get more $$ (i.e. fans buy in multiple formats) ... it is all recorded from the same 'digital' source, whether that gets pressed to CD or Vinyl. It's not like old vinyl that was based on analog.

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flacnvinyl
I have deleted the MP3s and will wait for the vinyl pressing. Here's hoping they fix the mix before pressing the vinyl.

That is what I call an audiophile. He pays for a mp3 download and then deletes the files in disgust.

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LeonidP

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flacnvinyl
I tried listening to this again. Can't do it. Bob Clearmountain has lost his magic touch. This thing is muddy and compressed beyond enjoyment. I have deleted the MP3s and will wait for the vinyl pressing. Here's hoping they fix the mix before pressing the vinyl.

From what I understand, the resurgence of vinyl is just a record company gimmick to get more $$ (i.e. fans buy in multiple formats) ... it is all recorded from the same 'digital' source, whether that gets pressed to CD or Vinyl. It's not like old vinyl that was based on analog.

Maybe in some cases you are right but there are tons of examples of vinyl releases having better quality audio due to factors like better mastering and increased dynamic range. If you don't believe me just look at the DR database. Vinyl has it's limitations too of course but at least dynamic range generally isn't one of them.

[dr.loudness-war.info]

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Naturalust

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LeonidP

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flacnvinyl
I tried listening to this again. Can't do it. Bob Clearmountain has lost his magic touch. This thing is muddy and compressed beyond enjoyment. I have deleted the MP3s and will wait for the vinyl pressing. Here's hoping they fix the mix before pressing the vinyl.

From what I understand, the resurgence of vinyl is just a record company gimmick to get more $$ (i.e. fans buy in multiple formats) ... it is all recorded from the same 'digital' source, whether that gets pressed to CD or Vinyl. It's not like old vinyl that was based on analog.

Maybe in some cases you are right but there are tons of examples of vinyl releases having better quality audio due to factors like better mastering and increased dynamic range. If you don't believe me just look at the DR database. Vinyl has it's limitations too of course but at least dynamic range generally isn't one of them.

[dr.loudness-war.info]

Understood, and thanks for clearing that up. I said it because I know there were complaints on a site from another band i follow, someone did a comparison and was able to tell that the vinyl source was brickwalled as well.

Still, I think the topic, although clearly has merit, is way overblown by (as some call them) music snobs. Music is for enjoyment, the beat, the groove, the singing, the dancing etc. People have enjoyed music for years on horrible equipment, record players with horrible sounding records, with scratches etc. It is sad to me that some are quick to dismiss music based on how it is brickwalled (as i pointed out earlier, almost ALL music brickwalled these days, you'll see these complaints on sites for all bands) rather than the quality of the songs themselves.

In the past: "hey, did you hear the new Stones album, it's great"
In the present: "hey, did you see how the new Stones album looks in Pro Tools? Horrible!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-07 22:11 by LeonidP.

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LeonidP

In the past: "hey, did you hear the new Stones album, it's great"
In the present: "hey, did you see how the new Stones album looks in Pro Tools? Horrible!"

Ha! That is a great observation and well fit for a New York Magazine cartoon!

I would completely agree with you but my sensitive ears actually do sense a huge difference in brickwalled vs. unbrickwalled music. No matter how good the music is it tends to decrease my overall enjoyment of it and considering music is such a huge part of my life, it pissed me off.

I rarely analyze music (that I am not recording) on Pro Tools or other other complex computer tools but can tell an overcompressed track instantly with the best analysis tools available, my ears. Repeated listening makes it even more obvious and irritating. I don't think that makes me a music snob.

Hopefully as people's awareness of this issue gets greater and us "snobs" complain loud enough the music will get better for everyone. I find it totally ironic that the very thing digital music is so much better at reproducing (dynamic range), is being completely unused when it should be exploited for maximum effect.

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LeonidP

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flacnvinyl
I tried listening to this again. Can't do it. Bob Clearmountain has lost his magic touch. This thing is muddy and compressed beyond enjoyment. I have deleted the MP3s and will wait for the vinyl pressing. Here's hoping they fix the mix before pressing the vinyl.

From what I understand, the resurgence of vinyl is just a record company gimmick to get more $$ (i.e. fans buy in multiple formats) ... it is all recorded from the same 'digital' source, whether that gets pressed to CD or Vinyl. It's not like old vinyl that was based on analog.

The difference between a regular CD (or digital download) and a vinyl pressing is the quality of the source : CD is (obviously) 16 bit while vinyl are often made from higher resolution masters (24 bit) and sometimes higher sampling (88.2kHz or 96kHz).
So they're not exactly "all recorded from the same digital source".

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Naturalust

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LeonidP

In the past: "hey, did you hear the new Stones album, it's great"
In the present: "hey, did you see how the new Stones album looks in Pro Tools? Horrible!"

Ha! That is a great observation and well fit for a New York Magazine cartoon!

I would completely agree with you but my sensitive ears actually do sense a huge difference in brickwalled vs. unbrickwalled music. No matter how good the music is it tends to decrease my overall enjoyment of it and considering music is such a huge part of my life, it pissed me off.

I rarely analyze music (that I am not recording) on Pro Tools or other other complex computer tools but can tell an overcompressed track instantly with the best analysis tools available, my ears. Repeated listening makes it even more obvious and irritating. I don't think that makes me a music snob.

Hopefully as people's awareness of this issue gets greater and us "snobs" complain loud enough the music will get better for everyone. I find it totally ironic that the very thing digital music is so much better at reproducing (dynamic range), is being completely unused when it should be exploited for maximum effect.

Yes, it does seem crazy though, it's such a big issue, I read about it all the time, the record companies and mixing engineers have to be aware of it. That's what makes it so strange that they keep it up. I can't explain that but it won't stop me from listening to the bands/albums that I love!

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kowalski

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LeonidP

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flacnvinyl
I tried listening to this again. Can't do it. Bob Clearmountain has lost his magic touch. This thing is muddy and compressed beyond enjoyment. I have deleted the MP3s and will wait for the vinyl pressing. Here's hoping they fix the mix before pressing the vinyl.

From what I understand, the resurgence of vinyl is just a record company gimmick to get more $$ (i.e. fans buy in multiple formats) ... it is all recorded from the same 'digital' source, whether that gets pressed to CD or Vinyl. It's not like old vinyl that was based on analog.

The difference between a regular CD (or digital download) and a vinyl pressing is the quality of the source : CD is (obviously) 16 bit while vinyl are often made from higher resolution masters (24 bit) and sometimes higher sampling (88.2kHz or 96kHz).
So they're not exactly "all recorded from the same digital source".

True, I am sure not 'all'. I did do my own vinyl rips from my old Stones bootleg albums and I love the way they sound. I still believe my Hampton '81 and Brussels '73 sound better than anything recently released. I have several great ones from '78 as well.

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LeonidP

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Naturalust

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LeonidP

In the past: "hey, did you hear the new Stones album, it's great"
In the present: "hey, did you see how the new Stones album looks in Pro Tools? Horrible!"

Ha! That is a great observation and well fit for a New York Magazine cartoon!

I would completely agree with you but my sensitive ears actually do sense a huge difference in brickwalled vs. unbrickwalled music. No matter how good the music is it tends to decrease my overall enjoyment of it and considering music is such a huge part of my life, it pissed me off.

I rarely analyze music (that I am not recording) on Pro Tools or other other complex computer tools but can tell an overcompressed track instantly with the best analysis tools available, my ears. Repeated listening makes it even more obvious and irritating. I don't think that makes me a music snob.

Hopefully as people's awareness of this issue gets greater and us "snobs" complain loud enough the music will get better for everyone. I find it totally ironic that the very thing digital music is so much better at reproducing (dynamic range), is being completely unused when it should be exploited for maximum effect.

Yes, it does seem crazy though, it's such a big issue, I read about it all the time, the record companies and mixing engineers have to be aware of it. That's what makes it so strange that they keep it up. I can't explain that but it won't stop me from listening to the bands/albums that I love!

Yeah it generally doesn't keep me from listening to them either, sometimes the music is just too compelling, but I do find it keeps me from listening to them as much as I'd like to.

No doubt the engineers are aware of the issue, most of them don't necessarily approve of the process but are just doing whatever it takes to please the powers that be. They mix and master stuff for others and I doubt any of them would apply brickwalling to music they were mixing for their own listening pleasure.

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kowalski

CD is (obviously) 16 bit while vinyl are often made from higher resolution masters (24 bit) and sometimes higher sampling (88.2kHz or 96kHz).

The so-called 'Dithering' from 24 to 16 bit.

From my subjective experience a iTunes file directly made from a 24bit HD-file (with the Mastered-for-iTunes process) sounds a little bit better than a iTunes file from a normal 16bit source (which was made in turn from a HD-source) ....

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Irix

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kowalski

CD is (obviously) 16 bit while vinyl are often made from higher resolution masters (24 bit) and sometimes higher sampling (88.2kHz or 96kHz).

The so-called 'Dithering' from 24 to 16 bit.

From my subjective experience a iTunes file directly made from a 24bit HD-file (with the Mastered-for-iTunes process) sounds a little bit better than a iTunes file from a normal 16bit source (which was made in turn from a HD-source) ....

Maybe, but whatever the source you use iTunes audio files are mp3 quality anyway.
The only difference with the mastered for itunes is they try to avoid clipping when converting from lossless to lossy format.

About the Fonda release, I can't really tell if it's because of the lossy format or because of the mix but the music surely lacks of definition.

People have way too much time on their hands. Music is for listening, not analyzing (brick walled v.s. not brick walled, lossy, d/a conversions, etc). Listen with your ears. Sound good? Great! Sounds like crap, wait for the next live recording of Sticky Fingers. I can't believe people run the music through pro tools to find out these arcane facts. Unbelievable.

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roller99
People have way too much time on their hands. Music is for listening, not analyzing (brick walled v.s. not brick walled, lossy, d/a conversions, etc). Listen with your ears. Sound good? Great! Sounds like crap, wait for the next live recording of Sticky Fingers. I can't believe people run the music through pro tools to find out these arcane facts. Unbelievable.

Roller, great post, I like you believe if you ear likes then great. If not leave it alone.

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roller99
People have way too much time on their hands. Music is for listening, not analyzing (brick walled v.s. not brick walled, lossy, d/a conversions, etc). Listen with your ears. Sound good? Great! Sounds like crap, wait for the next live recording of Sticky Fingers. I can't believe people run the music through pro tools to find out these arcane facts. Unbelievable.

Roller, great post, I like you believe if you ear likes then great. If not leave it alone..

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ahgriorr
Testify
I am also from Greece. Have you tried the other thread about SF Live?

I am Italian, after a day I did what you not should (torrent). Perhaps the problem is that I use Ubuntu, but I do not know ...

Just listened to the whole thing. I saw the Stones in San Diego and my review is on the review list. SD was the first show after this and I have to say the whole thing is good --- quite good in fact -- which every Stones show ALWAYS is these days! However...I think Keith's playing was not "On Fire" in this show. HE seemed to be laying back somewhat. The intro to CYHMK was played by both KR & RW and that has always been a strictly KR affair. Mick was spot on as always. Anyway, listen to it again with that in mind and see what you think Again, Good but Not Great.

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roller99
People have way too much time on their hands. Music is for listening, not analyzing (brick walled v.s. not brick walled, lossy, d/a conversions, etc). Listen with your ears. Sound good? Great! Sounds like crap, wait for the next live recording of Sticky Fingers. I can't believe people run the music through pro tools to find out these arcane facts. Unbelievable.

I always listen to music with my ears (never tried with something else though) and my ears tell me it doesn't sound so good. My brain then recognizes an overcompressed mix (which can explain the boxy sound) and a tiny sound typical of lossy encoded audio files (which can explain the lack of definition).

What I can't believe is that in 2015 music is still sold in a mp3 like format - exactly 20 years after the invention of this lossy format - and for a high price. An album in mp3 quality should be less than $5 or given for free. That's what I find unbelievable.

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Tonstone

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roller99
People have way too much time on their hands. Music is for listening, not analyzing (brick walled v.s. not brick walled, lossy, d/a conversions, etc). Listen with your ears. Sound good? Great! Sounds like crap, wait for the next live recording of Sticky Fingers. I can't believe people run the music through pro tools to find out these arcane facts. Unbelievable.

Roller, great post, I like you believe if you ear likes then great. If not leave it alone.

Ummm, I think that's the whole point. brickwalled music doesn't sound as good, but the music on this release is so good and compelling I want it to. Some people here are audio professionals, some just interested in music technology, many just what makes good music sound good considering we are talking about music on this board these issues are real and a part of it all.

We've all said the performance and the music on this release is great nothing wrong with a little deeper analysis for people who do care about care things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-08 01:40 by Naturalust.

I think the general buyinig public has been conditioned for ages to love mp3 which has inturn dumbed down audio quality expectations. Loud = Better is an eg of this. compression = phat = good etc etc

great last few pages on here, am in flacvinyl's camp for sure

what can I say? Me - victim of circumstances....

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[email protected]
I am digging Moonlight Mile. I might get a Bose soundbar just to listen to this.
I still think the disc is a cheap marketing ploy in a way, but fantastic.

I wouldn't do that.

A soundbar is not designed for music.

They have 2 main purposes :

1) provide a somewhat reasonable facsimile of surround sound,mainly for movies with surround sound tracks +

2) upgrade the sound of your TV's built-in speakers,adding some bass when there is a (low-end) subwoofer involved

Really most useful in a secondary room ..... not your primary entertainment area.

Also,Bose is fine for small,portable stuff like bluetooth speakers but,there are dozens of better options for serious audio equipment.

Also by using a Bluetooth connection (if you do) ,you are adding even more compression to these already compressed tracks.

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Naturalust

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Tonstone

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roller99
People have way too much time on their hands. Music is for listening, not analyzing (brick walled v.s. not brick walled, lossy, d/a conversions, etc). Listen with your ears. Sound good? Great! Sounds like crap, wait for the next live recording of Sticky Fingers. I can't believe people run the music through pro tools to find out these arcane facts. Unbelievable.

Roller, great post, I like you believe if you ear likes then great. If not leave it alone.

Ummm, I think that's the whole point. brickwalled music doesn't sound as good, but the music on this release is so good and compelling I want it to. Some people here are audio professionals, some just interested in music technology, many just what makes good music sound good considering we are talking about music on this board these issues are real and a part of it all.

We've all said the performance and the music on this release is great nothing wrong with a little deeper analysis for people who do care about care things.

Absolutley, that's why it's an open forum.

Before I leave again and return....there's a beautiful Gospel vibe here. Can't You Hear Me Knocking, You Gotta Move and I Got The Blues are revelations. Truly, it's a good spiritual vibe with this group. They top every song here form '71. I personally can't wait for the new album. Considering the fidelity, and price wise, this Fonda Itunes is the dog's bollocks.