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HenrikBB

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ironbelly
HenrikBB
So called "new ABKCO" version appeared on 2002 remasters. SACD hybrid discs from 2002 and their redbook reissues from 2006, japanese mini vinyls etc.

It is a compromise between 4.05 and 3.54 versions. Just slightly different fade out. It fades a bit later than the "old ABKCO" but does not cold end as on the first version of London CD.

Try to A->B any version from old ABKCO CD and SACD like EU version with catalog # 8822872.

That is the same take, but different fade. So, you know, you can call it a different edit of 4.05 version.

You´re absolutely true !
Post 2002 a 3.59 fade seems to be the new standard.
- Still the same take, - but adding a "new" runningtime for this song.
I recall a tread a couple of years ago, - where someone had listed all runningtimes for "Tell Me" he knew of, - from More Hot Rocks, -
Rolled Gold, - etc. etc. - and I think he came up with at least 10 different
fades !
- and BTW, - the 7" version runs 2.36 on most vinyls, - but 2.44 on
CD - The London Years, - 1989

It was me
4:09.13 on Self Titled German London discs 820 047-2 with matrix 820 047-2 01#. Ends cold.

4:08.30 on Japanese Self Titled Polydor P33L-25014. Here it ends cold too. (Different peak level + different gap). P25L 25031 and POCD-1911 are the same.

3:52.40 on Self Titled German and French London discs 820 047-2 with different matrices (i.e. 820 047-2 02# or 03#). Fade out early.

3:53.28 on German London More Hot Rocks 1 820 515-2 (I believe it is the same as above, just different gap) Fade out early

3:53.70 on Japanese More Hot Rocks 1 Polydor P25L-25049 (Peak level is different + different gap) Fade out early

3:51.27 on ABKCO More Hot Rocks 2CD (62672 in the US or 844 478-2 in Europe) Fade out early

2:46.12 on old ABKCO Singles collection (London 820 900-2 or ABKCO 844 481-2 in Europe) (instrumental part edited off, fade)

4:05.65 on 2002 SACD-DSD remaster England's Newest Hit Makers (93752 US) (fade out late, but no cold ending)

3:49.50 on 2002 remaster More Hot Rocks (96262 US)

3:48.37 on 2002 remaster Singles Collection (92312 US)

3:49.26 on 2007 Rolled Gold + (5303281, Europe)

The problem with CD is also hidden in so 'called null' samples and 'pre-gaps'. sometime you have extra second or two in the beginning and at the end of the track. I.e. different indexation points for different editions. Thus, the fade could be the same, but the counter on the player (or EAC) will return different timing. I believe +- 2 sec. is normal and should be neglected.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 12:44 by ironbelly.

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ironbelly
1963luca0
Don't get me wrong, but you gave a kind of misleading info for digital domain. I mean the situation for CDs is not exactly like you posted.

To my best knowledge none of More Hot Rock CD contain 4.05 version of the song. They all came with 3.49-3.52 version with fade out (depending on pre-gap for particular pressing). Although it is marked 4.05 on back cover.

All (but one) post 1988 (West) German London CDs came with the same 'fade out' version, although it is stated on the back cover 4.05. There is only one post 1988 CD that contains 4.05 version with matrix 820 047-2 01# MADE IN W.GERMANY BY PDO. However it is rather rare because they change matrix to 02# in the middle of the run. I.e. there are CDs 820 047-2 with 12 page booklet both with matrices 820 047-2 01# MADE IN W.GERMANY BY PDO (ends cold) and 820 047-2 02# MADE IN W.GERMANY BY PDO (with fade out). And in most cases you'll hit on the secondary market the CD with 02# matrix. This is VERY confusing.



Anyway,

For CDs the line is following.
Version I - 2.52 - never issued officially. Only on bootlegs.
Version II - 4.05, cold end. - German CD London 820 047-2 Early pressings from 1984-1986 (CDs with matrix 820 047-2 01#) and very rare CD with matrix 820 047-2 01# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO (1988). Also on Japanese London-Polydor KK P33L-25014 (1985), P25L-25031 (1989) and POCD-1911 (1995). For Japanese CDs the final EQ is different.
Version III - 3.44 (3.49-3.52), fade out - on US Englands New Hitmakers CD 375 (1986) and US reissues of this title. Also on late pressings of German London CD 820 047-2 (post 1988 editions with matrices 820 047-2 02# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN GERMANY, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN GERMANY BY PMDC, all CDs with 'clear plastic' hub) and all French, Brazil and Australian London CDs 820 047-2, Spanish London 844 055-2. Later - on European CD Englands New Hitmakers 844 460-2 (1995) and Japanese POCD-1936 (1995). All 'More Hot Rocks' no matter what country or pressing.

Hmm.. My RS No1. on CD (bought on the day they were all released in the UK, has the exact matrix number you mention (820 047-2 01 #) but looks nothing at all like the illustration! It's on the London Label (black shield ona red triangle), the abkco logo is on the right.

But it does have the sudden ending at 4' 07" - just listened to it.

Odd or what?

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Captain Corella
Hi, there. And congratulations! You have the praised 1st pressing.
Check out here. I made a long list for that one.
[www.iorr.org]

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
HenrikBB

Quote
ironbelly
HenrikBB
So called "new ABKCO" version appeared on 2002 remasters. SACD hybrid discs from 2002 and their redbook reissues from 2006, japanese mini vinyls etc.

It is a compromise between 4.05 and 3.54 versions. Just slightly different fade out. It fades a bit later than the "old ABKCO" but does not cold end as on the first version of London CD.

Try to A->B any version from old ABKCO CD and SACD like EU version with catalog # 8822872.

That is the same take, but different fade. So, you know, you can call it a different edit of 4.05 version.

You´re absolutely true !
Post 2002 a 3.59 fade seems to be the new standard.
- Still the same take, - but adding a "new" runningtime for this song.
I recall a tread a couple of years ago, - where someone had listed all runningtimes for "Tell Me" he knew of, - from More Hot Rocks, -
Rolled Gold, - etc. etc. - and I think he came up with at least 10 different
fades !
- and BTW, - the 7" version runs 2.36 on most vinyls, - but 2.44 on
CD - The London Years, - 1989

It was me
4:09.13 on Self Titled German London discs 820 047-2 with matrix 820 047-2 01#. Ends cold.

4:08.30 on Japanese Self Titled Polydor P33L-25014. Here it ends cold too. (Different peak level + different gap). P25L 25031 and POCD-1911 are the same.

3:52.40 on Self Titled German and French London discs 820 047-2 with different matrices (i.e. 820 047-2 02# or 03#). Fade out early.

3:53.28 on German London More Hot Rocks 1 820 515-2 (I believe it is the same as above, just different gap) Fade out early

3:53.70 on Japanese More Hot Rocks 1 Polydor P25L-25049 (Peak level is different + different gap) Fade out early

3:51.27 on ABKCO More Hot Rocks 2CD (62672 in the US or 844 478-2 in Europe) Fade out early

2:46.12 on old ABKCO Singles collection (London 820 900-2 or ABKCO 844 481-2 in Europe) (instrumental part edited off, fade)

4:05.65 on 2002 SACD-DSD remaster England's Newest Hit Makers (93752 US) (fade out late, but no cold ending)

3:49.50 on 2002 remaster More Hot Rocks (96262 US)

3:48.37 on 2002 remaster Singles Collection (92312 US)

3:49.26 on 2007 Rolled Gold + (5303281, Europe)

The problem with CD is also hidden in so 'called null' samples and 'pre-gaps'. sometime you have extra second or two in the beginning and at the end of the track. I.e. different indexation points for different editions. Thus, the fade could be the same, but the counter on the player (or EAC) will return different timing. I believe +- 2 sec. is normal and should be neglected.

- Hey ! - That´s our Man ! ! !
Fantastic !
As you have created such a detailed list, - you actually have to add the
3.15 French edit, - and the 7" 2.36 edit.
(My timings are much more primitive than yours, - simply using a stop-watch) !
Thanks a lot ! - and keep up the good work ! ! !

HenrikBB
Are those are from vinyls? I need to make separate list for them. These I posted above were from CDs I have/had in hands.

It's clocking in on 4:04 on this release:

I guess I need to say that the box set The Singles 1963-1965, features the short fade (2.36?) as well.

Quote
ironbelly
Captain Corella
Hi, there. And congratulations! You have the praised 1st pressing.
Check out here. I made a long list for that one.
[www.iorr.org]

Thanks. Mine is indeed the same as the first illustration in the thread you refer to.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Quote
ironbelly
HenrikBB
Are those are from vinyls? I need to make separate list for them. These I posted above were from CDs I have/had in hands.

Yes ! - those are vinyls !

The 3.15 edit, is on a French EP, - Decca 457.039 M, -
which - from memory - also had a Belgian release, - I think you can check it on
the "stones.7"

I don´t have the US-7", - but I know it´s labeled 2.35.

I do however have a South African-EP, - labeled 2.54, -
but running 2.36, - and I assume it´s equivalent to the US-7"-edit ... ?
(If someone owns the US-7" - please post ! )

The 4.05 late fade, - 2002, - sounds very interesting !
- will have to check it out !

Quote
Blueranger
I guess I need to say that the box set The Singles 1963-1965, features the short fade (2.36?) as well.

Interesting !
Can you confirm that it actually runs 2.36, -
and in that way is different from the 2.44 edit on "The London Years" 1989 ?

Quote
Blueranger
I guess I need to say that the box set The Singles 1963-1965, features the short fade (2.36?) as well.

Yes. EAC returns 02:39.50 with pre-gap appended. It is the same known take but different short edit.
- instrumental part is edited off.
- fade out really early.

Although the core of the song sounds like recent 2002 remaster

Here is a kind of thing

On old ABKCO The Singles Collection - The London Years
Tell Me 2.46. After the line 'I hear the telephone that hasn't rung' there are 8 repetitions of 'You've got to tell me you're coming back to me'

On the single from the box The Singles 1963-1965
Tell Me 2.39 After the line 'I hear the telephone that hasn't rung' there are 6 repetitions of 'You've got to tell me you're coming back to me'

For 2002 reissue of The Singles Collection - The London Years the total fade begins appr. @ 3.49. with line 'Oh, yeah, Come home, come home, come on home'. The same story for Rolled Gold +

For 2002 reissue of England's Newest Hitmakers the fade begins a bit later - after 'Come home, come home, come home'. This adds a couple of seconds.

For old ABKCO and late London CDs the fade starts a bit earlier and the line 'Come home, come home, come home' is barely audible.

Thus, it is all about fade at the end. But still the same take.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 14:39 by ironbelly.

I give up!
Ironbelly and Henrik BB: I'm floored! ;-)

So, as it looks right now for CD media
Version I - 2.52+-sec. - Alternative take, never issued officially. Only on bootlegs.
Version II - 4.05+-sec., cold end. - German CD London 820 047-2 Early pressings from 1984-1986 (CDs with matrix 820 047-2 01#) and very rare CD with matrix 820 047-2 01# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO (1988). Also on Japanese London-Polydor KK P33L-25014 (1985), P25L-25031 (1989) and POCD-1911 (1995). For Japanese CDs the final EQ is different.
Version III - 3.44 (3.49-3.52), the same take as Version II with fade out. On US Englands New Hitmakers CD 375 (1986) and US reissues of this title. Also on late pressings of German London CD 820 047-2 (post 1988 editions with matrices 820 047-2 02# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN GERMANY, 820 047-2 03# MADE IN GERMANY BY PMDC, all CDs with 'clear plastic' hub) and all French, Brazil and Australian London CDs 820 047-2, Spanish London 844 055-2. Later - on European CD Englands New Hitmakers 844 460-2 (1995) and Japanese POCD-1936 (1995). All pre-2002 'More Hot Rocks' no matter what country or pressing.
Version IV - 2.41+-sec. edit. The same take as Version II with instrumental part edited out. On The Singles Collection - The London Years 1989 and 1995 editions (820 900-2 and 844 481-2 for Europe, 1218-2 and 1231-2 for the US), Japanese POCD-1938/40. This version is an edit and not an equivalent to Version I
Version V 4.05+-sec.- late fade out but not cold ended. The same take as Version II. Compromise between Version II and Version III. - SACD-DSD remasters from 2002 of England's Newest Hitmakers.
Version VI 3.49+-sec. - edit of Version V with fade out. It fades earlier, than Version V, but a bit later than Version III. On 2002 SACD-DSD remasters of The Singles Collection - The London Years, More Hot Rocks and Rolled Gold +
Version VII 2.39+-sec. - edit of the same take as Version II without instrumental part (Like Version IV) but fades even earlier. The same SACD-DSD mastering. On 2004 Singles 1963-1965 box set.
Version VIII - 2.20 rehearsal, Soundtrack of Charlie is My Darling



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 15:38 by ironbelly.

Quote
Blueranger
I give up!
Ironbelly and Henrik BB: I'm floored! ;-)

Nobody leaves The Rolling Stones! (c)

Quote
Blueranger
I give up!
Ironbelly and Henrik BB: I'm floored! ;-)

-
I´m knocked out as well ! ! !
- Ironbelly has to be crowned as the IORR-Muhammed Ali ! ! !
Great stuff Ironbelly !
-Will have to go to work now, - but will try to digest your info´s
tonight !
Thanks again ! !

Version IX with the extra stretched outro have a measured time at 04.09 Sharp! pip...that's the one that really rocks taken from the original UK-album only released in the Cheltenham area...

2 1 2 0

Quote
Come On
Version IX with the extra stretched outro have a measured time at 04.09 Sharp! pip...that's the one that really rocks taken from the original UK-album only released in the Cheltenham area...

Since this is a thread for the ultra pedants and geeks, I'm going to ultra-pedantically correct that last point.

The first pressings of the original UK-album had the SHORT version on them in error. That would be Matrix Number XARL-6271-1A. So the longer 4' 09" version didn't appear until the SECOND pressings.

Although only available for a short time, it wasn't only available in the Cheltenham area (where the heck does that claim come from?) because I have one and I lived in London at the time.

Yes, I seem to have some strange first issues. The third one I have is XEX 606-1 (Google is your friend), again because it was bought in London on the day of release.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Quote
Come On
Version IX with the extra stretched outro have a measured time at 04.09 Sharp! pip...that's the one that really rocks taken from the original UK-album only released in the Cheltenham area...

- LOL ! - and absolutely !
- That´s the one we´re all searching for ! ! !
- Wasn´t it released in Derby as well ?

Quote
CaptainCorella

Quote
Come On
Version IX with the extra stretched outro have a measured time at 04.09 Sharp! pip...that's the one that really rocks taken from the original UK-album only released in the Cheltenham area...

Since this is a thread for the ultra pedants and geeks, I'm going to ultra-pedantically correct that last point.

The first pressings of the original UK-album had the SHORT version on them in error. That would be Matrix Number XARL-6271-1A. So the longer 4' 09" version didn't appear until the SECOND pressings.

Although only available for a short time, it wasn't only available in the Cheltenham area (where the heck does that claim come from?) because I have one and I lived in London at the time.

Yes, I seem to have some strange first issues. The third one I have is XEX 606-1 (Google is your friend), again because it was bought in London on the day of release.

Now this is developing !

Dear Captain C. !

I think that "Come On" made his comment for the "geekyness" of this thread !
- which is absolutely understandable !

But the word "Ultra Pedants" ! - Of course not ! ! !
This is science !
- and a lot of fun ! ! !