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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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stanlove

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Mathijs
I find Ernie Watts just utterly fantastic on the 81 tour. He really added a melodic sense to the tracks he played on, enabling the band to really extend and reach further than they ever been. And I love his sound.

Mathijs

I don't know about the reaching further and extending stuff ,sounds like music critic rambling, but to me Watts sounded great with the Stones in 81. Loved his contributions and there was not a lot to love in 81.

What?

There was nothing that was not to love in 1981. Or maybe that it - like all good thing - ended.

I agree with that, but he wrote the opposite...

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DandelionPowderman

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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stanlove

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Mathijs
I find Ernie Watts just utterly fantastic on the 81 tour. He really added a melodic sense to the tracks he played on, enabling the band to really extend and reach further than they ever been. And I love his sound.

Mathijs

I don't know about the reaching further and extending stuff ,sounds like music critic rambling, but to me Watts sounded great with the Stones in 81. Loved his contributions and there was not a lot to love in 81.

What?

There was nothing that was not to love in 1981. Or maybe that it - like all good thing - ended.

I agree with that, but he wrote the opposite...

I know that you know...

I always say that '81 was the last tour without a safety net. But maybe Ernie was just that, a safety net, keeping it together.

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"Music is the frozen tapioca in the ice chest of history."

"Shit!... No shit, awright!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-22 16:59 by Greg.

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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stanlove

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Mathijs
I find Ernie Watts just utterly fantastic on the 81 tour. He really added a melodic sense to the tracks he played on, enabling the band to really extend and reach further than they ever been. And I love his sound.

Mathijs

I don't know about the reaching further and extending stuff ,sounds like music critic rambling, but to me Watts sounded great with the Stones in 81. Loved his contributions and there was not a lot to love in 81.

What?

There was nothing that was not to love in 1981. Or maybe that it - like all good thing - ended.

I agree with that, but he wrote the opposite...

I know that you know...

I always say that '81 was the last tour without a safety net. But maybe Ernie was just that, a safety net, keeping it together.

Yeah, tough job indeed. Their first sax player on that tour only lasted a few shows, didn't he?

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DandelionPowderman

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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stanlove

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Mathijs
I find Ernie Watts just utterly fantastic on the 81 tour. He really added a melodic sense to the tracks he played on, enabling the band to really extend and reach further than they ever been. And I love his sound.

Mathijs

I don't know about the reaching further and extending stuff ,sounds like music critic rambling, but to me Watts sounded great with the Stones in 81. Loved his contributions and there was not a lot to love in 81.

What?

There was nothing that was not to love in 1981. Or maybe that it - like all good thing - ended.

I agree with that, but he wrote the opposite...

I know that you know...

I always say that '81 was the last tour without a safety net. But maybe Ernie was just that, a safety net, keeping it together.

Yeah, tough job indeed. Their first sax player on that tour only lasted a few shows, didn't he?

My Stones knowledge has become too rusty over time to know that... but I think you're right. Mathijs will know for sure.

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"Music is the frozen tapioca in the ice chest of history."

"Shit!... No shit, awright!"

I found his playing annoying and very repetitive. He didn't understand the concept of less is more.

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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stanlove

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Mathijs
I find Ernie Watts just utterly fantastic on the 81 tour. He really added a melodic sense to the tracks he played on, enabling the band to really extend and reach further than they ever been. And I love his sound.

Mathijs

I don't know about the reaching further and extending stuff ,sounds like music critic rambling, but to me Watts sounded great with the Stones in 81. Loved his contributions and there was not a lot to love in 81.

What?

There was nothing that was not to love in 1981. Or maybe that it - like all good thing - ended.

I agree with that, but he wrote the opposite...

I know that you know...

I always say that '81 was the last tour without a safety net. But maybe Ernie was just that, a safety net, keeping it together.

Yeah, tough job indeed. Their first sax player on that tour only lasted a few shows, didn't he?

My Stones knowledge has become too rusty over time to know that... but I think you're right. Mathijs will know for sure.

Always good to have IORR [www.iorr.org]

Lee Allen (saxophone):

He played three shows in October 1981 with the Rolling Stones:
on October first at the Metro Centre (Rockford, Illinois), and
on the third and the fourth at Folsom Field (Boulder, Colorado).
According to Ian McLagan,[1] who played keyboards with the Stones
on the 1981 Tattoo You tour, Allen was so bewildered by playing
with the Stones for over 80,000 people in attendance "he [Allen]
completely choked up". Audio recordings of the shows confirm
McLagan. Allen was replaced by Ernie Watts for the remainder of
the tour. wikipedia

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Ross
I found his playing annoying and very repetitive. He didn't understand the concept of less is more.

I think the problem you, and some others, have here is the fact that he, simply by his outstanding playing, stole some limelight from Keith and Ronnie. Which for some is a crime in Stonesland.

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Stoneage

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Ross
I found his playing annoying and very repetitive. He didn't understand the concept of less is more.

I think the problem you, and some others, have here is the fact that he, simply by his outstanding playing, stole some limelight from Keith and Ronnie. Which for some is a crime in Stonesland.

No. I found his playing annoying and repetitive, not outstanding. I cant even listen to that version of "Waiting On A Friend", he plays the same phrase about 72 times. Lazy. Sonny Rollins was brilliant on the original!

I did like some of Ernie's stuff with Charlie Hayden, I just don't think he fits here.

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Mathijs

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stanlove

I don't know about the reaching further and extending stuff ,sounds like music critic rambling,

First and last time they played 10 minute versions of Let Me Go, Imagination, BoB, WOAF, LIB etc.

LIsten to the band jamming on Imagination from Hampton -even Bill Wyman starts freewheeling!

Mathijs

10 minute version of Let Me Go? Great time for a walk.

Hampton is probobly my favourite Stonesrecording...ever

And Ernie Watts is very much the main ingredient in this success.

His style fits so well on the newer - more new wavelike -numbers as well as on the older ones like YCAGWYW (best version I've ever heard.....and i do love MT and the version from brussels 73) and LIB.

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Tops
Hampton is probobly my favourite Stonesrecording...ever

And Ernie Watts is very much the main ingredient in this success.

His style fits so well on the newer - more new wavelike -numbers as well as on the older ones like YCAGWYW (best version I've ever heard.....and i do love MT and the version from brussels 73) and LIB.

Completely agree. And you can tell the other Stones dug him too.

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Mathijs

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stanlove

I don't know about the reaching further and extending stuff ,sounds like music critic rambling,

First and last time they played 10 minute versions of Let Me Go, Imagination, BoB, WOAF, LIB etc.

LIsten to the band jamming on Imagination from Hampton -even Bill Wyman starts freewheeling!

Mathijs

so true !!!

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DandelionPowderman

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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Greg

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DandelionPowderman

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stanlove

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Mathijs
I find Ernie Watts just utterly fantastic on the 81 tour. He really added a melodic sense to the tracks he played on, enabling the band to really extend and reach further than they ever been. And I love his sound.

Mathijs

I don't know about the reaching further and extending stuff ,sounds like music critic rambling, but to me Watts sounded great with the Stones in 81. Loved his contributions and there was not a lot to love in 81.

What?

There was nothing that was not to love in 1981. Or maybe that it - like all good thing - ended.

I agree with that, but he wrote the opposite...

I know that you know...

I always say that '81 was the last tour without a safety net. But maybe Ernie was just that, a safety net, keeping it together.

Yeah, tough job indeed. Their first sax player on that tour only lasted a few shows, didn't he?

My Stones knowledge has become too rusty over time to know that... but I think you're right. Mathijs will know for sure.

Always good to have IORR [www.iorr.org]

Lee Allen (saxophone):

He played three shows in October 1981 with the Rolling Stones:
on October first at the Metro Centre (Rockford, Illinois), and
on the third and the fourth at Folsom Field (Boulder, Colorado).
According to Ian McLagan,[1] who played keyboards with the Stones
on the 1981 Tattoo You tour, Allen was so bewildered by playing
with the Stones for over 80,000 people in attendance "he [Allen]
completely choked up". Audio recordings of the shows confirm
McLagan. Allen was replaced by Ernie Watts for the remainder of
the tour. wikipedia

At the Rockford show my friend and I observed the sax player would
Continually get in Mick's stage space. Mick may have even bumped
Into him. I always thought this was Ernie Watts but it now makes
More sense that it was Lee Allen.

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dmay
Ahh, yes, I remember that storm well. Me and the missus send the little ones out to clear a path through the snow to the street. They got all bundled up, took their little snow shovels and scooted out the front door. As we closed the door behind them we could hear the sound of what seemed to be a saxophone playing somewhere far off. Unknown to us, the little ones went off to find the source of that sound. The last we heard they were traveling from town to town, festival to festival, in search of the lost chord and that far off saxophone playing through the storm. Mick sent us a card, saying it might be little Ernie that they heard, but the @#$%& never did reply to our reply. So, the missus and I came to reconcile ourselves to the disappearance of our little ones to the pied piper's call. We summed it all up by realizing they had discovered what we did in our youth - drugs and sex and rock'n'roll - and heeded that devil music's call.

I hope the little ones are doing well...I do see them from time to time still bundled up and carrying their shovels just in case...As you probably are aware of they have found Ernie, Mick and the lost chord...1981 Stripped Down, Great Sound, Great Stage Production...I caught 3 just outside Chicago in Rosemont...Really the end of an era before the huge spectacle Michael Cohl Productions.

Thank you 2120Wolf for letting me know the little ones are okay. I shall inform the missus of your update. She will be comforted to know they have found Mick, Ernie and the lost chord, though I know she would prefer they had found Springsteen, her fave. She still misses the little ones so, except for when her favorite shows come on the telly or she's involved in playing all those online word games on her computer or sipping wine and eating brie with her friends or otherwise engaged in whatever she's engaged in. May the good lord and the other gods sunning themselves in the heavens bestow many blessings upon you for your kindness in letting us know, again, the kids are alright.

I asking myself if I am not in on a joke here. That I am thinking everyone is hamming it up, and I am taking it serious, like a fool.
Ernie Watts great sound? Stones able to reach new musical heights because of his contributions??

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dmay
Thank you 2120Wolf for letting me know the little ones are okay. I shall inform the missus of your update. She will be comforted to know they have found Mick, Ernie and the lost chord, though I know she would prefer they had found Springsteen, her fave. She still misses the little ones so, except for when her favorite shows come on the telly or she's involved in playing all those online word games on her computer or sipping wine and eating brie with her friends or otherwise engaged in whatever she's engaged in. May the good lord and the other gods sunning themselves in the heavens bestow many blessings upon you for your kindness in letting us know, again, the kids are alright.

Yes DMay....May the Good Lord and other Gods guide you and the missus as well. And yes Ernie, Moonie and.....the Kids are Alright !!!

So was "Mick" Taylor related to "Mick" Jagger?

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shadooby
So was "Mick" Taylor related to "Mick" Jagger?

No, to the third Mick in the Stones (Avory)

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shadooby
So was "Mick" Taylor related to "Mick" Jagger?

Yes and "Micky" Rooney and of course "Micky" Dolenzzzzz !!!!

ROCKMAN

According to Karnbach/Bernson - sax players in 1981 were:
Sep 25, 26 (JFK, Philadelphia) - Ernie Watts
Sep 27 (Rich Stadium, Buffalo) - Ernie Watts
Oct 1 (Metro Center, Rockfield) - Ernie Watts plus "Saxophonist Lee Allen was a special guest at this gig and went on to Colorado with the band. His performance at this gig was something to see!"
Oct 3 (Folsom Field , Boulder) - Ernie Watts plus "Lee Allen travelled with the band from Rockfield and was again a special guest on tenor sax. Allen had recorded with Little Richard, Etta James and Fats Domino in the late 50's-early 60's"
Oct 4 (Folsom Field, Boulder) - Ernie Watts plus "Lee Allen was special guest on sax"
Oct 7 (Jack Murphy Stadium, San Diego) - Ernie Watts
Oct 9 (Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles) - Ernie Watts plus "Bobby Keys joined the tour at this performance; the backup musicians now included two sax players. Keys does a solo on Brown Sugar. (Also the show where Prince left the stage after 4 songs when garbage was thrown at him)"

According to Nico's website:
Lee Allen (sax; 1st - 4th October)/
Ernie Watts (sax; from 7th October onwards)/
Bobby Keys (sax; on Let It Bleed and Brown Sugar from 24th October onwards)

Any more for any more? Some clarification would be welcome...better start listening to those concerts, I suppose...

IMO part of what made the '81/'82 tours so great was the amount of jamming that tok place onstage, allowing the guitars lots of opportunities for improvising licks and for the whole band to find a real nice groove.

Although this sort of playing probably would have taken place with or without Ernie Watts, I do think he made a great contribution to the band's sound on that tour. He played with a real sense of melody, the likes of which hadn't been seen since Mick Taylor left the band. He really shines in the Hampton show (moreso in the second Hampton show IMO). I love what he added to Just My Imagination, Black Limousine, Beast of Burden, YCAGWYW,and Waiting on a Friend.

I liked Gene Barge as well, although he did seem to overplay at times in his solos and was more jazz-influenced than Ernie. I really dig Gene's atonal playing alongside Bobby (can be heard in the Leeds '82 show on Satisfaction and Tumbling Dice.)

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Zagalo
According to Karnbach/Bernson - sax players in 1981 were:
Sep 25, 26 (JFK, Philadelphia) - Ernie Watts
Sep 27 (Rich Stadium, Buffalo) - Ernie Watts
Oct 1 (Metro Center, Rockfield) - Ernie Watts plus "Saxophonist Lee Allen was a special guest at this gig and went on to Colorado with the band. His performance at this gig was something to see!"
Oct 3 (Folsom Field , Boulder) - Ernie Watts plus "Lee Allen travelled with the band from Rockfield and was again a special guest on tenor sax. Allen had recorded with Little Richard, Etta James and Fats Domino in the late 50's-early 60's"
Oct 4 (Folsom Field, Boulder) - Ernie Watts plus "Lee Allen was special guest on sax"
Oct 7 (Jack Murphy Stadium, San Diego) - Ernie Watts
Oct 9 (Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles) - Ernie Watts plus "Bobby Keys joined the tour at this performance; the backup musicians now included two sax players. Keys does a solo on Brown Sugar. (Also the show where Prince left the stage after 4 songs when garbage was thrown at him)"

According to Nico's website:
Lee Allen (sax; 1st - 4th October)/
Ernie Watts (sax; from 7th October onwards)/
Bobby Keys (sax; on Let It Bleed and Brown Sugar from 24th October onwards)

Any more for any more? Some clarification would be welcome...better start listening to those concerts, I suppose...

Correction for Rockfield...It is Rockford, IL.

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2120Wolf
LETS KEEP IN MIND FOLKS THIS WAS THE LAST TIME AROUND FOR IAN STEWART...AND HE WAS SMOKING !!!

Amen brother... Ernie was great too in 81,loved his work.

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2120Wolf

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Zagalo
According to Karnbach/Bernson - sax players in 1981 were:
Sep 25, 26 (JFK, Philadelphia) - Ernie Watts
Sep 27 (Rich Stadium, Buffalo) - Ernie Watts
Oct 1 (Metro Center, Rockfield) - Ernie Watts plus "Saxophonist Lee Allen was a special guest at this gig and went on to Colorado with the band. His performance at this gig was something to see!"
Oct 3 (Folsom Field , Boulder) - Ernie Watts plus "Lee Allen travelled with the band from Rockfield and was again a special guest on tenor sax. Allen had recorded with Little Richard, Etta James and Fats Domino in the late 50's-early 60's"
Oct 4 (Folsom Field, Boulder) - Ernie Watts plus "Lee Allen was special guest on sax"
Oct 7 (Jack Murphy Stadium, San Diego) - Ernie Watts
Oct 9 (Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles) - Ernie Watts plus "Bobby Keys joined the tour at this performance; the backup musicians now included two sax players. Keys does a solo on Brown Sugar. (Also the show where Prince left the stage after 4 songs when garbage was thrown at him)"

According to Nico's website:
Lee Allen (sax; 1st - 4th October)/
Ernie Watts (sax; from 7th October onwards)/
Bobby Keys (sax; on Let It Bleed and Brown Sugar from 24th October onwards)

Any more for any more? Some clarification would be welcome...better start listening to those concerts, I suppose...

Correction for Rockfield...It is Rockford, IL.

And no sax player on the first gigs...

I must be in the minority. I always thought The Stones sounded so rubbish in this tour. Not enough riffing, too much doodling. Too loose and ramshackle for my taste.

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2120Wolf
Charlie and Ernie are not related...
Legend has it that Ernie was a young lad delivering the London Herald in the late 70's. One of Mick Jaggers homes was located on young Ernies paper route. Mick would waive to Ernie on occasion as the young boy fulfilled his dailey paper route duties and of course young Ernie would waive back.. During Christmas time of 79' London was burried in 13 Feet of snow, however this did not prevent the young Ernie from delivering papers to the Heralds customers...According to Keith Moon of the Who, very early on Christmas morning he witnessed Ernie being invited into Micks place for tea and crumpettes. That morning Mick presented young Ernie a gift...a plastic childs saxophone...Mick told Ernie if you could learn to play it he would allow young Ernie to tour with the Stones next time around... "delivering papers in 13 feet of snow is no way for a young man to earn a living", you're feet must be frost bit by now......Soooo Ernie practiced and practiced and practiced until he was almost as good as Bobby Keys.....And that children is how the Rolling Stones found Ernie, not related to Charlie...Watts.

I don't get it. Did Keith Moon witness this episode in Christmas 1979? More than a year after he died?

And I have always thought Ernie was an American. Listened to him in different constellations already at the time of the Christmas snow episode. He played with Lee Ritenour, Friendship and many more.
Have always thought, and still think, that's the man playing with the Stones at the '81 tour.
Have I got something wrong here?

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bitusa2012
I must be in the minority. I always thought The Stones sounded so rubbish in this tour. Not enough riffing, too much doodling. Too loose and ramshackle for my taste.

But, but... they were riffing all the time – from both sides – constantly...