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Dreamer
When was the last time MT played for a crowd of 750 or 1000 people?

He sold out Cadogan Hall in London in November 2012, which seats 950 people. If he can do it in London, there's plenty of other places he can do it as well.

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Dreamer
Practically all the assumptions here in this thread are filled with accusations in the direction of the RS. I think in a way it's the other way round: when you know you hardly have a chance to start a tour yourself and the RS ask you to join you just make more out of it...he didn't. History repeating: MT bitter again...

Rubbish. Absolutely nothing he did on tour would have made a difference to how they used him, and you know it.

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Stoneburst

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Dreamer
When was the last time MT played for a crowd of 750 or 1000 people?

He sold out Cadogan Hall in London in November 2012, which seats 950 people. If he can do it in London, there's plenty of other places he can do it as well.

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Dreamer
Practically all the assumptions here in this thread are filled with accusations in the direction of the RS. I think in a way it's the other way round: when you know you hardly have a chance to start a tour yourself and the RS ask you to join you just make more out of it...he didn't. History repeating: MT bitter again...

Rubbish. Absolutely nothing he did on tour would have made a difference to how they used him, and you know it.

Ironically, he wanted to be someplace else that night..

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DandelionPowderman

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Stoneburst

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Dreamer
When was the last time MT played for a crowd of 750 or 1000 people?

He sold out Cadogan Hall in London in November 2012, which seats 950 people. If he can do it in London, there's plenty of other places he can do it as well.

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Dreamer
Practically all the assumptions here in this thread are filled with accusations in the direction of the RS. I think in a way it's the other way round: when you know you hardly have a chance to start a tour yourself and the RS ask you to join you just make more out of it...he didn't. History repeating: MT bitter again...

Rubbish. Absolutely nothing he did on tour would have made a difference to how they used him, and you know it.

Ironically, he wanted to be someplace else that night..

Eh?

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Stoneburst

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DandelionPowderman

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Stoneburst

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Dreamer
When was the last time MT played for a crowd of 750 or 1000 people?

He sold out Cadogan Hall in London in November 2012, which seats 950 people. If he can do it in London, there's plenty of other places he can do it as well.

Quote
Dreamer
Practically all the assumptions here in this thread are filled with accusations in the direction of the RS. I think in a way it's the other way round: when you know you hardly have a chance to start a tour yourself and the RS ask you to join you just make more out of it...he didn't. History repeating: MT bitter again...

Rubbish. Absolutely nothing he did on tour would have made a difference to how they used him, and you know it.

Ironically, he wanted to be someplace else that night..

Eh?

Wasn't that the gig, in between the Stones gigs, that prevented him from participating in the New Jersey gig? If memory serves, he also re-phrased the lyrics on No Expectations to "take me to the airport and fly me to New York".

Or was this a different solo gig?

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DandelionPowderman

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Stoneburst

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DandelionPowderman

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Stoneburst

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Dreamer
When was the last time MT played for a crowd of 750 or 1000 people?

He sold out Cadogan Hall in London in November 2012, which seats 950 people. If he can do it in London, there's plenty of other places he can do it as well.

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Dreamer
Practically all the assumptions here in this thread are filled with accusations in the direction of the RS. I think in a way it's the other way round: when you know you hardly have a chance to start a tour yourself and the RS ask you to join you just make more out of it...he didn't. History repeating: MT bitter again...

Rubbish. Absolutely nothing he did on tour would have made a difference to how they used him, and you know it.

Ironically, he wanted to be someplace else that night..

Eh?

Wasn't that the gig, in between the Stones gigs, that prevented him from participating in the New Jersey gig? If memory serves, he also re-phrased the lyrics on No Expectations to "take me to the airport and fly me to New York".

Or was this a different solo gig?

November 30th, so immediately after the second night at the O2. The Barclays gig was seven or eight days later, so I don't think it was a factor, no (although he did indeed change the lyrics in No Expectations, as you say). Beforehand the rumour was that Keith was going to sit in on CYHMK.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-19 12:03 by Stoneburst.

OK, thanks. I think it was pretty much concluded here that he didn't wanna do this show because of the Barclays-gigs. But with that time span in between you're probably right.

Well he is 66 (?). Maybe he just wants to enjoy the quiet life.

Yes it seems to be the only logical explanation at this point...he was willing to continue playing with the Stones (massive crowds, no back to back nights, traveling in luxury, etc...) but going back to clubs or setting up a new band just doesn't tickle his fancy at this point.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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Stoneburst

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Dreamer
When was the last time MT played for a crowd of 750 or 1000 people?

He sold out Cadogan Hall in London in November 2012, which seats 950 people. If he can do it in London, there's plenty of other places he can do it as well.

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Dreamer
Practically all the assumptions here in this thread are filled with accusations in the direction of the RS. I think in a way it's the other way round: when you know you hardly have a chance to start a tour yourself and the RS ask you to join you just make more out of it...he didn't. History repeating: MT bitter again...

Rubbish. Absolutely nothing he did on tour would have made a difference to how they used him, and you know it.

Just once...during a period when he was back in the lights thanks to the RS: exactly the point I was making so thank you.
But before that? And how many times since 2000 or since 1990 did he sell out a 750 person venue just on his own? And when he did, did he ever do that five times in six weeks or seven times in eight months? And when was the last time he made an album? Do show that information and who knows people might see a buck in it getting him on tour...


Rubbish. Absolutely nothing he did on tour would have made a difference to how they used him, and you know it.[/quote]

You want to believe your own wishful thinking out loud so desperately that you continue to try to convince others of your believe or "truth": it has (maybe admirable sometimes) determination and conviction ...but nothing else.
No matter what facts others bring here against your desperetely believed conviction you don't have any fact yourself to prove what you're believing.

I call it a fantasy (fiction is close to conviction) because the only thing you have as an argument is repeating that the facts others bring in the discussion is "rubbish and you know it".

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Dreamer

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Stoneburst

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Dreamer
When was the last time MT played for a crowd of 750 or 1000 people?

He sold out Cadogan Hall in London in November 2012, which seats 950 people. If he can do it in London, there's plenty of other places he can do it as well.

Quote
Dreamer
Practically all the assumptions here in this thread are filled with accusations in the direction of the RS. I think in a way it's the other way round: when you know you hardly have a chance to start a tour yourself and the RS ask you to join you just make more out of it...he didn't. History repeating: MT bitter again...

Rubbish. Absolutely nothing he did on tour would have made a difference to how they used him, and you know it.

Just once...during a period when he was back in the lights thanks to the RS: exactly the point I was making so thank you.
But before that? And how many times since 2000 or since 1990 did he sell out a 750 person venue just on his own? And when he did, did he ever do that five times in six weeks or seven times in eight months? And when was the last time he made an album? Do show that information and who knows people might see a buck in it getting him on tour...


Rubbish. Absolutely nothing he did on tour would have made a difference to how they used him, and you know it.

You want to believe your own wishful thinking out loud so desperately that you continue to try to convince others of your believe or "truth": it has (maybe admirable sometimes) determination and conviction ...but nothing else.
No matter what facts others bring here against your desperetely believed conviction you don't have any fact yourself to prove what you're believing.

I call it a fantasy (fiction is close to conviction) because the only thing you have as an argument is repeating that the facts others bring in the discussion is "rubbish and you know it".[/quote]

Sorry, but precisely what hard evidence do you have that the RS were desperate to integrate Taylor properly over the past couple of years, yet were repeatedly frustrated in this by a) the people around Taylor and b) MT's own inability to capitalise on the chances he was given?

Also, consider this: the huge amount of conjecture on this and other boards is primarily a result of the Stones' own lack of transparency when it comes to issues such as this, issues that many of their long-time fans care deeply about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-19 12:57 by Stoneburst.

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DoomandGloom
I doubt MT will tour small time. He has mentioned it is simply too rough for him. I hope he made some dough and can learn to live without regrets. I believe he feels there is nothing for him beyond the greatest band on the world. He was really pressured to fail during his world tour with them. Lousy monitoring, disinterested roadies and inconsistent stage appearances. He excelled anyhow even when his solos got chopped.

I agree. Especially on the sentence in bold. Leaving the Stones has been and still is a heavy mental burden for him, I guess. Maybe he should make effort to finally get rid of that burden.

Of course there is a lot of things he can do musically without the Rolling Stones.

This must be a joke, kleerie?

I wouldn't be surprised he is considering lots of offers as we speak..

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DandelionPowderman
Of course there is a lot of things he can do musically without the Rolling Stones.

This must be a joke, kleerie?

I wouldn't be surprised he is considering lots of offers as we speak..

as great as MT is and I put him in the top 5 or 10 of all time players, he's unhirable. The Stones are not alone in classic rock, bands try to sound like their records these days. On the other hand he couldn't get the job in The Dead or any jam band, the material is alien to him. His only direction is a blues style band or a review of his career which is what he'd done.

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DoomandGloom

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DandelionPowderman
Of course there is a lot of things he can do musically without the Rolling Stones.

This must be a joke, kleerie?

I wouldn't be surprised he is considering lots of offers as we speak..

as great as MT is and I put him in the top 5 or 10 of all time players, he's unhirable. The Stones are not alone in classic rock, bands try to sound like their records these days. On the other hand he couldn't get the job in The Dead or any jam band, the material is alien to him. His only direction is a blues style band or a review of his career which is what he'd done.

He could do anything he wants, and I know he has calls from people who wants to work with him.

Not suggesting he'll take this route again, though.

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DoomandGloom
I doubt MT will tour small time. He has mentioned it is simply too rough for him. I hope he made some dough and can learn to live without regrets. I believe he feels there is nothing for him beyond the greatest band on the world. He was really pressured to fail during his world tour with them. Lousy monitoring, disinterested roadies and inconsistent stage appearances. He excelled anyhow even when his solos got chopped.

Is this true?

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MingSubu

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DoomandGloom
I doubt MT will tour small time. He has mentioned it is simply too rough for him. I hope he made some dough and can learn to live without regrets. I believe he feels there is nothing for him beyond the greatest band on the world. He was really pressured to fail during his world tour with them. Lousy monitoring, disinterested roadies and inconsistent stage appearances. He excelled anyhow even when his solos got chopped.

Is this true?

No.

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DoomandGloom

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DandelionPowderman
Of course there is a lot of things he can do musically without the Rolling Stones.

This must be a joke, kleerie?

I wouldn't be surprised he is considering lots of offers as we speak..

as great as MT is and I put him in the top 5 or 10 of all time players, he's unhirable. The Stones are not alone in classic rock, bands try to sound like their records these days. On the other hand he couldn't get the job in The Dead or any jam band, the material is alien to him. His only direction is a blues style band or a review of his career which is what he'd done.

Do you say this because players like Derek Trucks and Jimmy Herring have raised the technical bar for jam band guitarists, or because you don't think Taylor would be a good fit for that sort of music anyway? I thought he played well when he sat in with the Dead back in 1989 or whenever it was (although, yes, he just played blues tunes with them). I always wanted to hear him sit in with the Allman Brothers. Back when Dickey was in the band I thought they could have meshed really well, given the chance.

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DandelionPowderman
Of course there is a lot of things he can do musically without the Rolling Stones.

This must be a joke, kleerie?

I wouldn't be surprised he is considering lots of offers as we speak..

No joking Dandie, I really think the Stones (era) still is a difficult burden for him mentally. All signs are pointing at it for such a long time.

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
Of course there is a lot of things he can do musically without the Rolling Stones.

This must be a joke, kleerie?

I wouldn't be surprised he is considering lots of offers as we speak..

No joking Dandie, I really think the Stones (era) still is a difficult burden for him mentally. All signs are pointing at it for such a long time.

I don't disagree with that.

This, however, is dubious as best: I believe he feels there is nothing for him beyond the greatest band on the world

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DandelionPowderman

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
Of course there is a lot of things he can do musically without the Rolling Stones.

This must be a joke, kleerie?

I wouldn't be surprised he is considering lots of offers as we speak..

No joking Dandie, I really think the Stones (era) still is a difficult burden for him mentally. All signs are pointing at it for such a long time.

I don't disagree with that.

This, however, is dubious as best: I believe he feels there is nothing for him beyond the greatest band on the world

Yes, that sounds too absolute.

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Stoneburst


Sorry, but precisely what hard evidence do you have that the RS were desperate to integrate Taylor properly over the past couple of years, yet were repeatedly frustrated in this by a) the people around Taylor and b) MT's own inability to capitalise on the chances he was given?

Also, consider this: the huge amount of conjecture on this and other boards is primarily a result of the Stones' own lack of transparency when it comes to issues such as this, issues that many of their long-time fans care deeply about.

When someone says "What would help him, imho, is getting together with the right group of musicians who could truly showcase his skills and having the management and support staff to put on a really good tour and show at some really exciting venues around the world." I just say it will never happen because there is no money in it based on the audiences he reached or failed to reach in the past. There's plenty of evidence to support that and even you brought it in; there's only a sold out gig of 950 people during the first concerts the RS gave after five years not touring with MT after almost 40 years...that was the reason those 950 came to see him.
So my point is there is only wishful thinking to support the theory of the possibility of a succesful MT tour in the future. And that a kickstarter campaign would be a good idea indeed because the usual or old ways to finance something like this will just not happen for MT.

And it's a very poor position to depend on the RS for a couple of years as he had manouvered himself into between November 2012 up to 2014, by never denying reports they owed him something and supporting those reports or even starting to give comments like that himself. And even now after that period he's playing the same card..."unfortunately they didn't ask me." So again he's bitter and they should ask him (again) because they owe him...
The RS asked him back again: for things to play on the reissue of EOMS. After that they asked him back for the second time: to go on tour under certain conditions.
They didn't have to do that but they did. He didn't have to do that but he did.
After that they didn't asked him again. They didn't have to and they didn't.
In comes speculation and assumptions and accusations...
All the rest you and some other people in this thread believe is just that...a conviction filled with determination and wishful thinking out loud mixed with a lot of fantasy: like I said sometimes the determination is admirable and sweet and touchy but...very far from truth or reality.

The huge amount of conjecture on this and other boards is not at all a result of the Stones' own lack of transparency when it comes to issues such as this, they don't need to give explanations or other forms of transparency to anyone just because you ask for it on iorr or just because you believe they should. That's an incorrect perception of reality...

The huge amount of conjecture is largely a result of your conviction; ever thought of the possibility you care too much too deeply...?
You only accept those who support your vision; the conviction and believe they share and exchange with you is all and enough prove you need. That's not a discussion. And certainly the comments in which you so desperately defend yourself and what you believe by attacking others with 'rubbish' (one of the sweetest expressions you used) who dare mention something else...does not indicate you would like to exchange facts or anything close.

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MingSubu

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DoomandGloom
I doubt MT will tour small time. He has mentioned it is simply too rough for him. I hope he made some dough and can learn to live without regrets. I believe he feels there is nothing for him beyond the greatest band on the world. He was really pressured to fail during his world tour with them. Lousy monitoring, disinterested roadies and inconsistent stage appearances. He excelled anyhow even when his solos got chopped.

Is this true?

Well the fact that they couldn't even hand him another guitar when he broke a string in Zurich (if memory serves) would seem to indicate he was not very well "assisted" yes ! As for the "lousy monitoring", he was indeed often seen asking for the volume to be raised, some have said that it was a sign he was nervous not necessarily that the sound was too low, guess we'll never know.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse

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MingSubu

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DoomandGloom
I doubt MT will tour small time. He has mentioned it is simply too rough for him. I hope he made some dough and can learn to live without regrets. I believe he feels there is nothing for him beyond the greatest band on the world. He was really pressured to fail during his world tour with them. Lousy monitoring, disinterested roadies and inconsistent stage appearances. He excelled anyhow even when his solos got chopped.

Is this true?

Well the fact that they couldn't even hand him another guitar when he broke a string in Zurich (if memory serves) would seem to indicate he was not very well "assisted" yes ! As for the "lousy monitoring", he was indeed often seen asking for the volume to be raised, some have said that it was a sign he was nervous not necessarily that the sound was too low, guess we'll never know.

During the beginning of the American leg of the world celebration tour he was hardly audible at the beginning of MR. I recall him trying to do something about it. But it was obvious from the videos.

Dreamer you totally underestimate the the attraction Taylor has in this world where nostalgia, name recognition and anything associated with the Rolling Stones have huge marketing potential.

Besides, I'm not suggesting Taylor go it alone, quite the opposite. I believe he excels in an environment with other great songwriting musicians. Look at what he brought to the Stones table on the single friggin' song he was allowed to play on. If you didn't catch any of those shows you missed some of the most musically exciting moments in RS history in a long time. I'm not talking about a Tonight: Mick Taylor tour anymore than I'm talking about a Tonight: Mick Jagger tour.

And you blatantly suggest Taylor didn't make the most of his RS gig? Like playing on more songs? No doubt he would have liked to do just that, it was obviously the Stones tying his hands on that aspect. If allowed a few more songs I have no doubt his value would have been even more apparent to the Stones and their fans and he would have made the most of it. The audiences came alive when he played and he was universally very very well received.

If you are just suggesting he hasn't done much since you are right, but in all fairness he was probably expecting a call from the Stones again. The fact that that call came from some lawyer and wasn't an invitation but a dismissal is both unfortunate and telling. Couldn't Mick or Keith pick up the phone?

A kickstarter campaign is for people who need funding (and expect a return). We don't know Taylors financial situation, he could probably fund his own tour, certainly could if he had the royalties that have been denied him the last 32 years! In the meantime SF is selling like hotcakes and who would deny that Taylor deserves just as much from that as say Charlie does?

I still think the right management, marketing and collaboration would do wonders for Taylor's career. Obviously playing more with the Stones would have been an ideal jumpstart and a perfect platform for his skills but we know that's not happening. Taylor's appeal as a virtuoso guitar player in a good band is undeniable. He's still one of the most exciting guitarists from that era still alive and playing and to suggest that couldn't be parlayed into future success is just plain ignorant.

peace

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RollingFreak

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roller99

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Naturalust

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roller99
Mick Taylor = Jimmy Page
Both: known for playing Les Pauls
Both: incredibly gifted
Both: not much stage presence
Both: did nothing with their careers after their biggest gig
Both: have legions of fans that want them out there playing
Both: could probably start a great band today but for some reason don't.

Page didn't have much stage presence? Did you ever see Zeppelin in concert? His playing was often sloppy but his presence was pretty undeniable.

I also wouldn't say neither did anything with their careers after the big gigs, sure neither was nearly as successful but each tried in their own way. Comparing anything to arguably the two greatest rock bands to ever exist is bound to come up a bit short.

peace

Jimmy Page was an incindiery player, but no presence at all. Stood pretty much to the side. Compare him to Keith. KR has presence. Page??? No. Plant and Bonham were the animated ones. Page has done nothing but sit around rehashing old Zep records.

Lol maybe you'll kill me, but I'd say hands down Page has more presence than Keith. He had the whole god damn violin bow and the posing and getting a solo spot where he's the only one on stage. Totally different from Taylor and Keith. Keith has presence, but a totally different, and frankly much more understated one than Jimmy Page. I agree with the second comment though. If you want to compare Taylor's presence to anyone in Zeppelin, its John Paul Jones, as both stood to the sidelines but effortlessly carried the bands they were in.

Now this comment is actually dead-on correct! OK, maybe Jimmy did have more stage presence because he did the thing with the violin bow, and the theremin, but I always considered those things gimmicky (even though I have the theremin and a video of me doing Whole Lotta Love on youtube). I used to think Led Zeppelin was a great band, but now mostly Jimmy Page appears as a pathetic has-been to me. The only thing he has done since the 90's is work with Robert Plant. And over time, the number of songs that LZ ripped off just makes me lose all respect for them. And LZ was Jimmy Page's band. So he's the big thief. When you go play at a gig, you'll find a lot of artists being covered, but universally NOBODY ever plays any LZ songs (these are blues gigs). They are just off-limit...

I may have already posted this, but what I think would be cool is to have:

Paul Rodgers (vocals)
Rich Robinson (rhythm)
Mick Taylor (lead)
Bass (Whoever that would fit)
Simon Kirke (drums)

And they tour playing Free/Bad Company and a few Stones/Black Crowes type numbers.

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bigmac7895
I may have already posted this, but what I think would be cool is to have:

Paul Rodgers (vocals)
Rich Robinson (rhythm)
Mick Taylor (lead)
Bass (Whoever that would fit)
Simon Kirke (drums)

And they tour playing Free/Bad Company and a few Stones/Black Crowes type numbers.

or with Jim Keltner (drums)
I love rich robinson is a very good guitar player.

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Stoneburst

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DoomandGloom

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DandelionPowderman
Of course there is a lot of things he can do musically without the Rolling Stones.

This must be a joke, kleerie?

I wouldn't be surprised he is considering lots of offers as we speak..

as great as MT is and I put him in the top 5 or 10 of all time players, he's unhirable. The Stones are not alone in classic rock, bands try to sound like their records these days. On the other hand he couldn't get the job in The Dead or any jam band, the material is alien to him. His only direction is a blues style band or a review of his career which is what he'd done.

Do you say this because players like Derek Trucks and Jimmy Herring have raised the technical bar for jam band guitarists, or because you don't think Taylor would be a good fit for that sort of music anyway? I thought he played well when he sat in with the Dead back in 1989 or whenever it was (although, yes, he just played blues tunes with them). I always wanted to hear him sit in with the Allman Brothers. Back when Dickey was in the band I thought they could have meshed really well, given the chance.

yes the bar is high but guys like Eric Clapton and Duane Allman were excellent sidemen back in the day. Taylor is more of a Roy Buchanan, players must adapt to him and his desire to improv in whatever direction he is feeling. This works in The Stones by perfect storm at his greatest he's in another musical dimension creating counterpoint in ways that defy all other pop musicians. I don't see another vehicle and the Glimmer's feel he's pissing in their health shakes.

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roller99

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RollingFreak

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roller99

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Naturalust

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roller99
Mick Taylor = Jimmy Page
Both: known for playing Les Pauls
Both: incredibly gifted
Both: not much stage presence
Both: did nothing with their careers after their biggest gig
Both: have legions of fans that want them out there playing
Both: could probably start a great band today but for some reason don't.

Page didn't have much stage presence? Did you ever see Zeppelin in concert? His playing was often sloppy but his presence was pretty undeniable.

I also wouldn't say neither did anything with their careers after the big gigs, sure neither was nearly as successful but each tried in their own way. Comparing anything to arguably the two greatest rock bands to ever exist is bound to come up a bit short.

peace

Jimmy Page was an incindiery player, but no presence at all. Stood pretty much to the side. Compare him to Keith. KR has presence. Page??? No. Plant and Bonham were the animated ones. Page has done nothing but sit around rehashing old Zep records.

Lol maybe you'll kill me, but I'd say hands down Page has more presence than Keith. He had the whole god damn violin bow and the posing and getting a solo spot where he's the only one on stage. Totally different from Taylor and Keith. Keith has presence, but a totally different, and frankly much more understated one than Jimmy Page. I agree with the second comment though. If you want to compare Taylor's presence to anyone in Zeppelin, its John Paul Jones, as both stood to the sidelines but effortlessly carried the bands they were in.

Now this comment is actually dead-on correct! OK, maybe Jimmy did have more stage presence because he did the thing with the violin bow, and the theremin, but I always considered those things gimmicky (even though I have the theremin and a video of me doing Whole Lotta Love on youtube). I used to think Led Zeppelin was a great band, but now mostly Jimmy Page appears as a pathetic has-been to me. The only thing he has done since the 90's is work with Robert Plant. And over time, the number of songs that LZ ripped off just makes me lose all respect for them. And LZ was Jimmy Page's band. So he's the big thief. When you go play at a gig, you'll find a lot of artists being covered, but universally NOBODY ever plays any LZ songs (these are blues gigs). They are just off-limit...

I would respectfully submit that Jimmy Page is a rock icon, having created the biggest band of his time and one of the most recognizable SOUNDS in all of popular music.

Mick Taylor is a WONDERFUL guitarist. But if you saw Zeppelin in the 70's Page's bona fides are beyond reproach. Whatever he may or may not have done in the intervening years, Page was the mastermind behind quite possibly the greatest six-albums-in-a-row run (seven if you count PHYSICAL GRAFFITTI as two) in all of rock'n'roll,

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LongBeachArena72

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roller99

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RollingFreak

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roller99

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Naturalust

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roller99
Mick Taylor = Jimmy Page
Both: known for playing Les Pauls
Both: incredibly gifted
Both: not much stage presence
Both: did nothing with their careers after their biggest gig
Both: have legions of fans that want them out there playing
Both: could probably start a great band today but for some reason don't.

Page didn't have much stage presence? Did you ever see Zeppelin in concert? His playing was often sloppy but his presence was pretty undeniable.

I also wouldn't say neither did anything with their careers after the big gigs, sure neither was nearly as successful but each tried in their own way. Comparing anything to arguably the two greatest rock bands to ever exist is bound to come up a bit short.

peace

Jimmy Page was an incindiery player, but no presence at all. Stood pretty much to the side. Compare him to Keith. KR has presence. Page??? No. Plant and Bonham were the animated ones. Page has done nothing but sit around rehashing old Zep records.

Lol maybe you'll kill me, but I'd say hands down Page has more presence than Keith. He had the whole god damn violin bow and the posing and getting a solo spot where he's the only one on stage. Totally different from Taylor and Keith. Keith has presence, but a totally different, and frankly much more understated one than Jimmy Page. I agree with the second comment though. If you want to compare Taylor's presence to anyone in Zeppelin, its John Paul Jones, as both stood to the sidelines but effortlessly carried the bands they were in.

Now this comment is actually dead-on correct! OK, maybe Jimmy did have more stage presence because he did the thing with the violin bow, and the theremin, but I always considered those things gimmicky (even though I have the theremin and a video of me doing Whole Lotta Love on youtube). I used to think Led Zeppelin was a great band, but now mostly Jimmy Page appears as a pathetic has-been to me. The only thing he has done since the 90's is work with Robert Plant. And over time, the number of songs that LZ ripped off just makes me lose all respect for them. And LZ was Jimmy Page's band. So he's the big thief. When you go play at a gig, you'll find a lot of artists being covered, but universally NOBODY ever plays any LZ songs (these are blues gigs). They are just off-limit...

I would respectfully submit that Jimmy Page is a rock icon, having created the biggest band of his time and one of the most recognizable SOUNDS in all of popular music.

Mick Taylor is a WONDERFUL guitarist. But if you saw Zeppelin in the 70's Page's bona fides are beyond reproach. Whatever he may or may not have done in the intervening years, Page was the mastermind behind quite possibly the greatest six-albums-in-a-row run (seven if you count PHYSICAL GRAFFITTI as two) in all of rock'n'roll,

Well said, it's strange to judge these guys by what they haven't done as opposed to what they have. Calling Page a big thief and a has been is totally missing the point of how great an impact Zep had and arguably still has on rock music. If is never picked up a guitar since 1980 he would still be a rock god in my mind...beyond reproach indeed.

Besides, Page made every song he borrowed his own and Plant was just as responsible for outright reusing blues lyrics. Getting hung up on this aspect of Zep seems like you are missing the other 99% of what made them great.

I also agree Page had more stage presence than Keith, of course more than Taylor. Both spoke volumes with their guitar playing but Page was also a bit of a showman, striking iconic poses, drawing attention to himself and working the crowd with his strutting, wardrobe and movement. With front men like Plant and Jagger he and Keith had quite a bit off freedom to just allow the singers to carry the showmanship aspects, but with Zep there was a lot more instrumental/jam time and Page stepped up to the plate took the spotlight quite well, imo.

One of the things that was so attractive about Taylor to me was that he didn't have to rely on showmanship to get his point across and be totally relevant. Something about him just standing there, eyes of his fret board and devastating us with his guitar playing was so cool and amazing, it was perfect. Humility even though great, no gimmicks just the real thing. The only person I ever saw do it as effectively as Taylor was Barry Bailey of the Atlanta Rhythm Section. I saw a show where he didn't move a muscle, just stood perfectly still in the same spot the whole night, ripping it up on that Les Paul. For that reason, I remember that performance above so many others, stage presence can obviously come in different forms.

peace