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Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: April 13, 2015 01:54

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71Tele
Quote
Nikkei
Quote
Dreamer
It's reasonably fresh compared to what you're trying to sell as a five star dinner which is in fact a cold portion of 40 year old noodles...

if there was a way to "win" this thread, this comment would've done it!

Why? If it's supposed to be directed at me, it completely misses my point. The people proferring a stale meal are the Stones themselves, by putting on the same stadium nostalgia show, and the fans who keep consuming the same bland meal, albeit with fewer "noodles".

The "five star dinner" I would like to sell would be completely different. But by all means, continue with the tried, true, and familiar if that satisfies you.


Yes it's a scandal!
Oh and do bring your complaints and problems to the United Nations. Explain them in what way what you would like to sell is different compared to what's familiar. You got new songs??
I'd like to help you son but you're too young to vote... There's a tune in that!

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: April 13, 2015 01:57

Quote
71Tele
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It would have been "yeah, yeah, yeah, whoo" with Taylor as well smoking smiley

But better guitar, and perhaps we would have some different songs to go with the yaeah, yeah, yeah, wooh.

Only in your opinion, as I never cared much for Taylor's take on BS.

Different songs with Taylor would indeed be more interesting, as they could explore the arrangement with him. But BS would have sounded like Satisfaction, and I'm afraid some other songs would have sounded like Silver Train. I guess we'll never know...

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: April 13, 2015 02:03

Quote
71Tele
Quote
Nikkei
Quote
Dreamer
It's reasonably fresh compared to what you're trying to sell as a five star dinner which is in fact a cold portion of 40 year old noodles...

if there was a way to "win" this thread, this comment would've done it!

Why? If it's supposed to be directed at me, it completely misses my point. The people proferring a stale meal are the Stones themselves, by putting on the same stadium nostalgia show, and the fans who keep consuming the same bland meal, albeit with fewer "noodles".

The "five star dinner" I would like to sell would be completely different. But by all means, continue with the tried, true, and familiar if that satisfies you.

Sorry 71Tele, didn't mean it like that. I wanted to refer to this thread more generally as "battling a lost cause" and found the expression funny.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: April 13, 2015 02:07

Quote
Nikkei
Quote
71Tele
Quote
Nikkei
Quote
Dreamer
It's reasonably fresh compared to what you're trying to sell as a five star dinner which is in fact a cold portion of 40 year old noodles...

if there was a way to "win" this thread, this comment would've done it!

Why? If it's supposed to be directed at me, it completely misses my point. The people proferring a stale meal are the Stones themselves, by putting on the same stadium nostalgia show, and the fans who keep consuming the same bland meal, albeit with fewer "noodles".

The "five star dinner" I would like to sell would be completely different. But by all means, continue with the tried, true, and familiar if that satisfies you.

Sorry 71Tele, didn't mean it like that. I wanted to refer to this thread more generally as "battling a lost cause" and found the expression funny.

That's ok. It was a good line. I must give credit where it is due. smoking smiley

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: April 13, 2015 02:34

Quote
71Tele
Quote
Nikkei
Quote
71Tele
Quote
Nikkei
Quote
Dreamer
It's reasonably fresh compared to what you're trying to sell as a five star dinner which is in fact a cold portion of 40 year old noodles...

if there was a way to "win" this thread, this comment would've done it!

Why? If it's supposed to be directed at me, it completely misses my point. The people proferring a stale meal are the Stones themselves, by putting on the same stadium nostalgia show, and the fans who keep consuming the same bland meal, albeit with fewer "noodles".

The "five star dinner" I would like to sell would be completely different. But by all means, continue with the tried, true, and familiar if that satisfies you.

Sorry 71Tele, didn't mean it like that. I wanted to refer to this thread more generally as "battling a lost cause" and found the expression funny.

That's ok. It was a good line. I must give credit where it is due. smoking smiley

check please!

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: April 13, 2015 02:35

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Only in your opinion, as I never cared much for Taylor's take on BS.

But didn't Taylor contribute to the Muscle Shoals recording of BS? I thought Jimmy Johnson recalled he was playing a strat. Or was he mixed out of the final master? Anyway if he was playing on the basically live track as the cut it, Taylors take is part of the whole thing, imo.

But I kind of know what you mean, on a few of the live versions his lead work was kinda "outside the song" although his fills are good and I suspect he even wrote those original parts. Stuff Ronnie is still playing in the modern era.

But in any case that song swings in such an iconic way...I still love the original version and I do believe Keith's killer rhythm tracks are the primary reason.

peace



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-13 03:01 by Naturalust.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: LoganWaters ()
Date: April 13, 2015 02:53

And now, a little levity...



Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: April 13, 2015 03:04

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Naturalust
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Only in your opinion, as I never cared much for Taylor's take on BS.

But didn't Taylor contribute to the Muscle Shoals recording of BS? I thought Jimmy Johnson recalled he was playing a strat. Or was he mixed out of the final master? Anyway if he was playing on the basically live track as the cut it, Taylors take is part of the whole thing, imo.

But I kind of know what you mean, on a few of the live versions his lead work was kinda "outside the song" although his fills are good and I suspect he even wrote those original parts. Stuff Ronnie is still playing in the modern era.

But in any case that song swings in such an iconic way...I still love the original version and I do believe Keith's killer rhythm tracks are the primary reason.

peace

He was contributing, but they didn't use his take, and tried his overdubs as well as Keith's before ending up with the Berry-esque licks that Keith played on the final version.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Hound Dog ()
Date: April 13, 2015 03:15

Reading some of the posts here I don't get why people think most concert goers don't know who Mick Taylor is and think the fans only know the same 16 warhorses. I did a project in college where I polled people on the top 100 most well known Stones songs. On my campus just about everyone knew of more than 50 percent of them. And many of these people didn't consider themselves hardcore Stones fans, this was in the late 90s. So by saying casual fans only know the same warhorses is BS. You don't think people know songs like Under My Thumb, Lets Spend the Night Together and so on.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: alimente ()
Date: April 13, 2015 03:32

Quote
CousinC
I gave up on all that years ago,Tele.
We can only have some fun with what they are able and willing to give - or turn away.

It could be much more interesting and thats why I cooled down a lot over the years.

thumbs up

Yes, I think that's the brutal truth. I feel the same. But in the end, it's their band, not ours.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: SweetThing ()
Date: April 13, 2015 03:53

And, then, you have stuff like this... "...gives the band a little more expansion on stage"..

video: [www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: April 13, 2015 04:00

Quote
SweetThing
And, then, you have stuff like this... "...gives the band a little more expansion on stage"..

video: [www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

Cool. Even Keith see's the benefits of having Taylor along. And with these huge stadiums and a huge stage they can use all the expansion they can get. thumbs up

peace

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: palerider22 ()
Date: April 13, 2015 04:03

I think people may be underestimating the discontent regarding the absence of Taylor on this tour. There's a marketing rule of thumb that for every person that expresses their discontent there are 30 that don't and remain silent and that 70-90% that read those opinions are influenced by them to some degree. I don't think this MT thing is going away. There many more unhappy public comments then just here...YouTube, Facebook, etc. It might even escalate and I don't think they are necessarily laughing it off at Stones HQ. The issue was notable enough to be brought up in interviews with both Mick and Keith. The show will go on for sure but I wonder if they fumbled the ball on this one...

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: rob51 ()
Date: April 13, 2015 05:02

I think both MT and the Stones both made mistakes. First the band for not giving him more tunes to play on and then him for showboating when he got his chance.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: bigfrankie ()
Date: April 13, 2015 05:25

Almost 50,000 views and 1,600 posts in one month! Somebody, somebody, somebody with some connection tell MJ that MICK TAYLOR IS IMPORTANT!!!!

don't give me that ole one two, one two three four



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-13 05:26 by bigfrankie.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: April 13, 2015 06:14

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
71Tele
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It would have been "yeah, yeah, yeah, whoo" with Taylor as well smoking smiley

But better guitar, and perhaps we would have some different songs to go with the yaeah, yeah, yeah, wooh.

Only in your opinion, as I never cared much for Taylor's take on BS.

Different songs with Taylor would indeed be more interesting, as they could explore the arrangement with him. But BS would have sounded like Satisfaction, and I'm afraid some other songs would have sounded like Silver Train. I guess we'll never know...

I certainly cared for his playing on live versions of BS. They're blistering. Silver Train was a wreck because they gave both Taylor and Wood a solo on a song that does not require it. Why bother to rehearse it with Taylor and screw up the arrangement?

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: April 13, 2015 07:46

They rehearsed it with Taylor AND screwed up the arrangement, yes.

The lameness had nothing to do with the solos, imo. The first version only had a Taylor solo and was even worse, imo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-13 11:37 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: April 13, 2015 08:48

Silver Train....nice to see them taking risks, with extra guitarist. I think the singer was the problem with Silver Train and the guitarists were not quite sure where he was going 1/2 the time but listening hard for cues which weren't consistent. Not Mick's best vocal treatment all around.

peace

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: April 13, 2015 08:54

The second attempt had better vocals, but shaky guitars from all three guitarists.

It's not supposed to be easy smiling smiley

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: mtaylor ()
Date: April 13, 2015 09:00

Quote
Naturalust
Silver Train....nice to see them taking risks, with extra guitarist. I think the singer was the problem with Silver Train and the guitarists were not quite sure where he was going 1/2 the time but listening hard for cues which weren't consistent. Not Mick's best vocal treatment all around.

peace

The same with Sway, terrible singing by Mick. When the song begins to build up, MJ just interrupts it.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: April 13, 2015 11:36

Quote
mtaylor
Quote
Naturalust
Silver Train....nice to see them taking risks, with extra guitarist. I think the singer was the problem with Silver Train and the guitarists were not quite sure where he was going 1/2 the time but listening hard for cues which weren't consistent. Not Mick's best vocal treatment all around.

peace

The same with Sway, terrible singing by Mick. When the song begins to build up, MJ just interrupts it.

I think they had the same trouble with "Can't You Hear Me Knocking?" as well, until the jam part starts and makes it musically memorable and interesting. Jagger sings karaoke-like and Richards has no feel in his riffs, and teh whoel band sounds pointless - it almost look like that they all are just waiting the jam part to begin... I think the same thing happened even in those LICKS TOUR days. They rushed the 'song-part' through, and it was not until when Ronnie and Jagger took the control, they started to concentrate and things started to work out. Especially adding Jagger's harmonica solo there has been one of the best arrangement ideas they have had during the 'modern' days. Was it just a manouvre to hide the lack of Taylor-factor, and not giving all the responsibilty into Ronnie's shoulders, or whatever, but it worked damn well (and, I need to say here, I think Ronnie did fine as well, at least in the show I saw). It sounded great then, but now, knowing better, I would choose Taylor any day for those two...grinning smiley

- Doxa

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: April 13, 2015 11:57

Quote
71Tele
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
71Tele
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It would have been "yeah, yeah, yeah, whoo" with Taylor as well smoking smiley

But better guitar, and perhaps we would have some different songs to go with the yaeah, yeah, yeah, wooh.

Only in your opinion, as I never cared much for Taylor's take on BS.

Different songs with Taylor would indeed be more interesting, as they could explore the arrangement with him. But BS would have sounded like Satisfaction, and I'm afraid some other songs would have sounded like Silver Train. I guess we'll never know...

I certainly cared for his playing on live versions of BS. They're blistering. Silver Train was a wreck because they gave both Taylor and Wood a solo on a song that does not require it. Why bother to rehearse it with Taylor and screw up the arrangement?

Actually, the playing is indeed blistering - only not on Brown Sugar, imo. The licks take away the groove and the raggedness of the song - which is what I like about it in the first place. Good playing, bad arranging.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-13 11:58 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: LuxuryStones ()
Date: April 13, 2015 12:16

BS Essen '70 is amazing imo. Taylor almost sounds like an electric violin, the lead
plus solo is full of tension and feeling. Together with Richards' rhythm guitar this is one of the best rock duets for guitar Ive ever heard:




Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: April 13, 2015 13:54

Quote
LuxuryStones
BS Essen '70 is amazing imo. Taylor almost sounds like an electric violin, the lead
plus solo is full of tension and feeling. Together with Richards' rhythm guitar this is one of the best rock duets for guitar Ive ever heard:



I have always liked that version as well. Although there is a lot of noodling, it's much more fitting than his slide approach on BS, imo.

A note: Both Ronnie and Taylor have this urge to play within a major G during the chorus, whilst Keith played minor. Even Bobby started to play the lick in major round 1981. Some of the danger disappears by doing that, imo.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: April 13, 2015 13:56

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TheBlockbuster
Quote
71Tele

A: Why is that any different? Why please a few people who want to hear obscure songs when the throngs will only talk through them or use them for a piss break?

There are far more people who would like to hear more rare songs than there are people who is concerned about Taylor not participating on this tour. I've met quite a few casual fans, who has not really heard the rare songs, but still says they don't feel any need to see the Stones again, since they always play the same old songs. Even casual fans like to challenged.

Quote
Stoneburst
TheBlockbuster: the idea that the only people who care about Mick Taylor are ageing baby boomers is nonsense. It's part and parcel of this silly myth that no one from the younger generation appreciates classic rock because they're all too busy listening to Justin Bieber or something. I'm 25 and Mick Taylor is the reason I play guitar. I have lots of friends that also play guitar and dig Taylor just as much. Several of the 'Taylorites' (whatever that term even means now) posting on this board are young as well. A lot of the anti-Taylor posters here would do well to give the Stones' audiences more credit. Young or old, we all have ears, and we all know what Taylor bought to the Stones these past few years when they actually let him on stage. I think the Stones management might be surprised at just how many people would make like Naturalust and take a Taylor solo gig over one of theirs at this point.

I think you and your friends are in a minority. Younger people in general who listen to the Stones tends to appreciate Ronnie Wood a lot more than the Taylor fans on this board do. Of course there are younger fan who likes Taylors playing alot, just like I do, but not very many of them takes it to the extreme when they won't see the next concert since MT is not with the band. But that's just my observation of course.

I also think the majority of the audience at a stones concert sees the bigger picture: The Stones is in their 70's now and won't walk the earth much longer, they have been an excellent band for 40 years without depending on Mick Taylor, and these 40 years is really what they should be celebrating at this point.

Sure the majority don't give a damn about the music because it is of course nowhere near anything remotely close to what once made them great and famous. But of course younger fans care about the music. Even if the only reason to buy a ticket to the Stones is their fame and rep. and Jagger and Richards and to some possibly even Wood.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: LuxuryStones ()
Date: April 13, 2015 14:22

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
LuxuryStones
BS Essen '70 is amazing imo. Taylor almost sounds like an electric violin, the lead
plus solo is full of tension and feeling. Together with Richards' rhythm guitar this is one of the best rock duets for guitar Ive ever heard:



I have always liked that version as well. Although there is a lot of noodling, it's much more fitting than his slide approach on BS, imo.

A note: Both Ronnie and Taylor have this urge to play within a major G during the chorus, whilst Keith played minor. Even Bobby started to play the lick in major round 1981. Some of the danger disappears by doing that, imo.

As far as I hear it Keith starts that lick on the tone C on the studio version, which creates more tension indeed, it emphasises the Gsus 4 chord. On the other hand that's the reason why that tone "drowns" a bit, imo. Could be the reason why Taylor starts on the tone G.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: PhillyFAN ()
Date: April 13, 2015 14:34

Quote
DandelionPowderman
They rehearsed it with Taylor AND screwed up the arrangement, yes.

The lameness had nothing to do with the solos, imo. The first version only had a Taylor solo and was even worse, imo.



Here is Mick Taylor's version of Silver Train. He does know how to play it and very well in fact. Don't know what happened with the Stones version last year but here it is...

[www.youtube.com]

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: April 13, 2015 14:40

Quote
LuxuryStones
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
LuxuryStones
BS Essen '70 is amazing imo. Taylor almost sounds like an electric violin, the lead
plus solo is full of tension and feeling. Together with Richards' rhythm guitar this is one of the best rock duets for guitar Ive ever heard:



I have always liked that version as well. Although there is a lot of noodling, it's much more fitting than his slide approach on BS, imo.

A note: Both Ronnie and Taylor have this urge to play within a major G during the chorus, whilst Keith played minor. Even Bobby started to play the lick in major round 1981. Some of the danger disappears by doing that, imo.

As far as I hear it Keith starts that lick on the tone C on the studio version, which creates more tension indeed, it emphasises the Gsus 4 chord. On the other hand that's the reason why that tone "drowns" a bit, imo. Could be the reason why Taylor starts on the tone G.

Doesn't Taylor start on the B, or at least marks the B, after a brief hit on the G first?

But it is what Keith does next on the studio version that hits bull's eye, imo. After that C, which he slides up to, he hit the single string open notes D and G, just to back up that last G by sliding up to it on the D string. In a way, it's a non-textbook approach of playing the equivalent to country in minor smiling smiley

It just sounds... tough and cool thumbs up

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: April 13, 2015 14:40

Quote
PhillyFAN
Quote
DandelionPowderman
They rehearsed it with Taylor AND screwed up the arrangement, yes.

The lameness had nothing to do with the solos, imo. The first version only had a Taylor solo and was even worse, imo.



Here is Mick Taylor's version of Silver Train. He does know how to play it and very well in fact. Don't know what happened with the Stones version last year but here it is...

[www.youtube.com]

The Stones's version(S)











Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-13 14:43 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: LuxuryStones ()
Date: April 13, 2015 14:47

Quote
LuxuryStones

Quote
DandelionPowderman
It just sounds... tough and cool thumbs up

Absolutely, the third when Keith plays that C (intro) he hits that bull right between the eyes.cool smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-13 14:57 by LuxuryStones.

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