Robin should be forgiven - the video of the songs was awesome LOL

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Lynd8
Robin should be forgiven - the video of the songs was awesome LOL

Oh I'm sure if the judgment holds he'll be plenty forgiven, just possibly a few million dollars poorer.

peace

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drbryant

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schillid

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drbryant
I am an attorney, have dealt with copyright issues, and have a hard time understanding this decision. I haven't listened to the songs closely or studied the music but my initial reaction is that there isn't enough to support a copyright infringement claim.

I wonder if the jury was properly instructed. Appeal.

Do you know how they'd have to go about it?...
The legal process, that is, if they want to appeal the verdict?

Yes. If they believe that a mistake was made in the application of the law, they can appeal to an federal court of appeals. The problem that I have is that while the songs sound similar, most of the similarity is based on which I believe are "non-protected" elements. That is why the reports are that the jury was not allowed to listen to the whole track and spent most of its time with sheet music. But just casual listening tells me that the protectible elements aren't very similar. That said, I haven't studied the organ parts, the melody, the lyrics, etc., which are all protectible.

I'll wait for articles by legal professionals, but it's definitely an interesting case. The one thing I do know - it's clear that you can still make money in the music industry!

drbryant,

In your opinion, how heavily might real or perceived inconsistency of "story" have impacted the verdict?

"Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams also were not able to keep their story straight.
Most people paid attention to Thicke's inconsistency -- he went from saying he told
Pharrell to create a song like "Got to Give It Up" to saying he wanted to have that
feeling to saying he wanted to evoke the era to not having any conversations at all.
They might have had an excuse for Thicke, but what was Pharrell's explanation for
what I believe were inconsistent and irreconcilable statements? We showed his taped
deposition at trial. It was powerful." [ source ]


- swiss

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BowieStone

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woodyweaving
Forgive my ignorance but what was the reference about Bo Diddley estate?

Well, who hasn't ripped off the Bo Diddley beat?

I think The Beatles are in the clear on that one. However there is a very very big list of their songs which appear to have been "heavily influenced" at the very least by other records.
A half decent music lawyer could probably spend some time with the fabs, Stones, Kinks, Who, Yardbirds back catalogue and start ambulance chasing. Sad thing would be that in all certainty, the original writers would not benefit being dead or having had their rights ripped off.
Didn't someone like Tom Petty (i forget exactly who), maybe John Fogerty get sued for stealing their own song ? That's a classic.

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ash
Didn't someone like Tom Petty (i forget exactly who), maybe John Fogerty get sued for stealing their own song ? That's a classic.

Yes. John Fogerty stole his own song. Run Through the Jungle <--> The Old Man Down the Road. He won the case though.

Mark O'Connor is a Violinist/Fiddler of the highest level. On his facebook page he has a number of posts (and a few amazing videos) thinking about this case, the verdict and the trend it could set for the future. The following is the first thing I saw that he posted. Interesting thoughts.

Peace,

Mr DJA




Weighing in on the Marvin Gaye estate vs. Pharrell Williams/Robin Thicke law suit for copyright infringement of "Blurred Lines" with Gaye's "Got to Give it Up."

May I comment by posing a few questions:

Every 3rd country song sounds the same and uses the same 3 or 4 chords in about the same places and with the same drum track and nearly the same "melody" line...?


What about the session musicians (I was a session musician at one time) who actually create these tracks with drums, bass lines, grooves, tempo, feels, hooks to what are largely normal songs that most any good musician could write etc... Should session musicians not be suing for all of the hits they helped to "write?" Did the session musicians on Gaye's original track write as much of that soundtrack and the feel of that song that inspired Pharrell and Thicke to pattern theirs after?

Does Charlie Parker owe the writer of "Back Home in Indiana" a writer's credit for "Donna Lee" because it has the same harmonic structure? Do I owe Charlie Parker the same for "Sweet Suzanne" that shares partially a common chord structure and similar motifs as his "Donna Lee"?

Does this unfolding can of worms just take money out of musician's hands and puts it in lawyers hands and the hands of estates and heirs whom most are not in the music industry nor contributing artists on any kind of big scale?

And my final question, shouldn't we be owed 7 million dollars as the public in general who has to endure such bad radio songs as "Blurred Lines" anyway. Make the check out to O'Connor Method Camps so we can get some talent in there with some original melody lines! And way better lyrics while we're at it!

What a mess... really. MOC

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BowieStone

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ash
Didn't someone like Tom Petty (i forget exactly who), maybe John Fogerty get sued for stealing their own song ? That's a classic.

Yes. John Fogerty stole his own song. Run Through the Jungle <--> The Old Man Down the Road. He won the case though.

and "Street Fighting Man" sure sounds like "Did Everyone Pay Their Dues" to me!

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drbryant
I am an attorney, have dealt with copyright issues, and have a hard time understanding this decision. I haven't listened to the songs closely or studied the music but my initial reaction is that there isn't enough to support a copyright infringement claim.

I wonder if the jury was properly instructed. Appeal.

It's going to be appealed. Sure, it's clearly influenced by Marvin Gaye but it's not a rip off. They're different. And different enough. They have a similar feel and groove but so what! If the Williams-Thick track hadn't of made so much money this would not've happened.

If the case for suing is because it sounds too much like Marvin Gaye then The Black Crowes should be sued because they 'sound like' the Stones...

I thought there was no money go be had these days from record sales, only from performances?
7.2 million seems a lot of dosh.

Pharrell’s ‘Happy’ Might Face the Wrath of Marvin Gaye’s Family, Too
By Dee Lockett

Lawsuit

Just when you thought the legal battle between Pharrell and Marvin Gaye's family had simmered down, yet another song has entered the conversation. And it just so happens to be the biggest hit of Pharrell's career: "Happy." Nona Gaye, Marvin's daughter, told CBS, "I'm not going to lie. I do think they sound alike." She specifically thinks it sounds like 1965's "Ain't That Peculiar." "I heard the mash-ups — but I didn't really need to hear them," Janis Gaye, Marvin's ex-wife, noted. "I know 'Ain't That Peculiar' and I've heard 'Happy.'" Luckily, for now, Pharrell can wipe the sweat off his brow because the Gaye family say they aren't considering taking legal action ... yet. "We're not in that space. We're just in the moment today and we're satisfied," they said. Tread lightly, Pharrell.






_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-13 20:19 by Hairball.

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jlowe
I thought there was no money go be had these days from record sales, only from performances?
7.2 million seems a lot of dosh.

There's (comparatively) not much in record sales but realize that, performance also includes when a song is played on radio, tv and I believe certain places on the internet. At that point the publishers are paid. Possibly only a penny or two but with millions and millions of plays, it adds up. People with more knowledge of the publishing industry can probably explain this more accurately than I can but lets just say that although the performers on your favorite song aren't making much money anymore, the WRITERS and publishers of your favorite songs are still getting PAID.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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BowieStone

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ash
Didn't someone like Tom Petty (i forget exactly who), maybe John Fogerty get sued for stealing their own song ? That's a classic.

Yes. John Fogerty stole his own song. Run Through the Jungle <--> The Old Man Down the Road. He won the case though.

I read somewhere that he lost!!

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ash

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BowieStone

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woodyweaving
Forgive my ignorance but what was the reference about Bo Diddley estate?

Well, who hasn't ripped off the Bo Diddley beat?

I think The Beatles are in the clear on that one.

Umm I Wanna Be Your Man? Check out one of their versions from the BBC, it sounds more like the Stones version.
Anyway, using the "standards" of this case, Chuck Berry could make a lot of money, specifically off of the Stones (Star Star, Respectable, etc) AC/DC (most of their stuff), the Beach Boys (besides the obvious, Surfin Safari, Fun Fun Fun, etc) to name three.
It does seem ridiculous to sue over "influences". Led Zeppelin's situation is different because there there was outright plagarism on songs like How Many More Times, Dazed and Confused, Bring it on Home and Whole Lotta Love.

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2000 LYFH

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BowieStone

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ash
Didn't someone like Tom Petty (i forget exactly who), maybe John Fogerty get sued for stealing their own song ? That's a classic.

Yes. John Fogerty stole his own song. Run Through the Jungle <--> The Old Man Down the Road. He won the case though.

and "Street Fighting Man" sure sounds like "Did Everyone Pay Their Dues" to me!

Sad Sad Sad is just Brown Sugar inverted... It Must Be Hell is Soul Survivor played with a jangle and sung with an excellent sneer. Look What The Cat Dragged In is just Rock And A Hard Place (only much better).

Emotional Rescue is Miss You minus everything about it being like Miss You.

Start Me Up is just Turd On The Run on its head.

Nona Gaye, Marvin's daughter, told CBS, "I'm not going to lie. I do think they sound alike."

Did anyone ever imply she was going to lie? Was she accused of lying? Has she lied before? Why can't people simply SAY what they want to say instead of polluting it with garbage?

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leteyer

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BowieStone

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ash
Didn't someone like Tom Petty (i forget exactly who), maybe John Fogerty get sued for stealing their own song ? That's a classic.

Yes. John Fogerty stole his own song. Run Through the Jungle <--> The Old Man Down the Road. He won the case though.

I read somewhere that he lost!!

This is what I read:

Fogerty won over the jury by bringing his guitar to the witness stand and personally demonstrating why the two songs were different.

I watched Graham Norton show last night with noel gallagher doing a performance of his new song. I think it is called "The ballad of mighty I" or something. Although I did like the song I couldn't get my mind from thinking it had some parts that is very close to the Beatles track "things we said to day".

Making new songs is hard without doing something that has been done before. But beeing sued for steeling your own song? Epic!!

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BowieStone

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leteyer

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BowieStone

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ash
Didn't someone like Tom Petty (i forget exactly who), maybe John Fogerty get sued for stealing their own song ? That's a classic.

Yes. John Fogerty stole his own song. Run Through the Jungle <--> The Old Man Down the Road. He won the case though.

I read somewhere that he lost!!

This is what I read:

Fogerty won over the jury by bringing his guitar to the witness stand and personally demonstrating why the two songs were different.

The Fogerty case was unusual in that the party which instigated the action were actually the publishers of the first composition.

So it would be a bit like ABKCO (as publishers and owners of the pre1971 material) suing Mick and Keith if it was felt the Glimmers had nicked any bits for one of their later masterworks. As if!

Actually it was also a landmark decision for Fogerty as,but only following an appeal to the Supreme Court, he got his legal feees paid by the other party (the litigant).

If you want to see how much artists borrow and steal, check this out. Stones content included!!



Drew

Interesting video Wonder if you have to admit to have stolen from other songs or if it's just enough that a song is similar to another song/ melody to get you convicted? I mean if you make a song without knowing it has been done before, is it considered a crime?

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gibsonman
Interesting video Wonder if you have to admit to have stolen from other songs or if it's just enough that a song is similar to another song/ melody to get you convicted? I mean if you make a song without knowing it has been done before, is it considered a crime?

Still a copyright infringement, yes.

peace

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Naturalust

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gibsonman
Interesting video Wonder if you have to admit to have stolen from other songs or if it's just enough that a song is similar to another song/ melody to get you convicted? I mean if you make a song without knowing it has been done before, is it considered a crime?

Still a copyright infringement, yes.

peace

Ignorance of the song is no excuse!

Drew

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gibsonman
being sued for stealing your own song? Epic!!

It could have happened to the Stones with "Must Be Hell" (1983) and "Soul Survivor" (1972).

Maybe we fans who bought "Undercover" should start a class action against the band? Is it too late to let justice prevail? ><

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dcba

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gibsonman
being sued for stealing your own song? Epic!!

It could have happened to the Stones with "Must Be Hell" (1983) and "Soul Survivor" (1972).

Maybe we fans who bought "Undercover" should start a class action against the band? Is it too late to let justice prevail? ><

Or "one more shot" vs "street fighting man"?

I dont know where to draw the line here, but I think the Stones would have had a lot explenation to do if we sued them. Keith's open g chords, chords progressions, way of playing etc. Fogertys lawsuit would have been nothing compared to that! Oh man.......

Ridiculous!! And if there was an award it should have been no more than one million dollars. This is nothing more than theft on a grand scale

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GasLightStreet
[. Look What The Cat Dragged In is just Rock And A Hard Place (only much better).

High praise indeed.

The first time I heard BL, I heard the feel and groove of GTGIU. But not as a rip-off, more as an homage. They were obviously going for that groove, as Thicke said initially. Anyone who knows Marvin's song can hear it.
I don't know why the story changed into the song not having anything to do with Marvin's song. It obviously did, in a respectful way. They became defensive and acted like it was 100 percent separate from GTGIU...
They should have just said, 'We were going for the feel of...' etc..
Nothing wrong with that (But then I guess you'd have to let the songwriting credits reflect that, so I don't know.)

I do know that these cases are rarely a true case of thievery. Huey Lewis, to this day, is convinced that Ghostbusters is 'Brand New Drug' because of the horn section and drum beat or whatever and Ray Parker Jr.'s career was never the same, while Lewis is still bitching about it.
As Keith said, 'It's all the same song...'



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-18 03:39 by stupidguy2.

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leteyer

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BowieStone

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ash
Didn't someone like Tom Petty (i forget exactly who), maybe John Fogerty get sued for stealing their own song ? That's a classic.

Yes. John Fogerty stole his own song. Run Through the Jungle <--> The Old Man Down the Road. He won the case though.

I read somewhere that he lost!!

The Fogerty case was the first case in my copyright law course many years ago. Fogerty was sued for infringement by Saul Zaentz, whose company owned the CCR copyrights. Zaentz was pissed about another song on Centerfield, Zanz Can't Dance. Fogerty won. Zaentz had to pay Fogerty's attorney fees.

Wasm't Neil Young sued by his record company in the 1980s, during his electronica phase, for making records that did not sound like Neil Young?

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GasLightStreet
Nona Gaye, Marvin's daughter, told CBS, "I'm not going to lie. I do think they sound alike."

Did anyone ever imply she was going to lie? Was she accused of lying? Has she lied before? Why can't people simply SAY what they want to say instead of polluting it with garbage?

At this point in time...you made me laugh