....Dunno where this party thing for Exile comes from....It's more like an orgy in a sewer



ROCKMAN

Ha Ha Ha! Good on ya, Rockee.

Great thread, great song, great posts from Doxa, Witness Swiss and others. To me the album sounds like someone reminiscing, crying, getting high, f-ing, trying to boost the ego, longing for a lost love, a dead friend, and finally in this last gem of a song, screaming inside the cell on the island of Saint Helena or maybe screaming outside the island, on a boat, escaping the hell hole where the prisoner spilled out his life to the muddy walls. The album is a monologue.

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Great thread, great song, great posts from Doxa, Witness Swiss and others. To me the album sounds like someone reminiscing, crying, getting high, f-ing, trying to boost the ego, longing for a lost love, a dead friend, and finally in this last gem of a song, screaming inside the cell on the island of Saint Helena or maybe screaming outside the island, on a boat, escaping the hell hole where the prisoner spilled out his life to the muddy walls. The album is a monologue.

Brilliant -- brilliant!! One of the best things I've "heard articulated" about Exile.

71Tele -- agreed -- and I did say Mick polished it up in LA -- however, it still has mildew on the walls
- no matter how much Mediterranean white wall wash was swathed over it! And you know me better than to
imagine I think there's "filler" in Exile....except maybe like some spackle for my own soul...that kind
of "filler."

Rockman, I certainly didn't say party...I said 10-day bender. Tho' could be one 72-hour night or 3 months...

treaclef, love your post -- cognitive dissonance, without any angst, all rolling by.

Weren't Mick AND Keith touching Exile up in LA?

And once again: Don't forget the "oldies" that also made this album great.

Loving Cup
Shine A Light
Shake Your Hips
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia
Sweet Black Angel
All Down The Line
Stop Breaking Down

All of these songs were either pre prod-recorded or written in 1969 or 1970...

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Weren't Mick AND Keith touching Exile up in LA?

And once again: Don't forget the "oldies" that also made this album great.

Loving Cup
Shine A Light
Shake Your Hips
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia
Sweet Black Angel
All Down The Line
Stop Breaking Down

All of these songs were either pre prod-recorded or written in 1969 or 1970...

Those songs are almost the cornerstone of the album. Yeah, I think many of us tend to forget they were already floating around.

Quote
Silver Dagger

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Weren't Mick AND Keith touching Exile up in LA?

And once again: Don't forget the "oldies" that also made this album great.

Loving Cup
Shine A Light
Shake Your Hips
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia
Sweet Black Angel
All Down The Line
Stop Breaking Down

All of these songs were either pre prod-recorded or written in 1969 or 1970...

Those songs are almost the cornerstone of the album. Yeah, I think many of us tend to forget they were already floating around.

I admit I do.
(But then to me EXILE is not the album. That is, above everything else, "only" among rather many great ones.)

By the way, is it well known in such detail which of those songs were respectively a) pre-recorded, b) pre-recorded, but recorded anew, c) written in 1969 or 1970, but not recorded before?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-09-10 13:00 by Witness.

I've always wondered why Soul Survivor didn't get more recognition. Sure the mix on Exile is a bit thick, but when you listen to the song, not the mix, what you have is a classic rock anthem that somehow got lost on an album (actually 2) of classics. I play this one at least once a week on a 5 string cranked up to the point that my neighbors complain. It fires me up every time.

I know it will never happen, but I'd love to hear this one live.

Lyrically the song is a type similar to Tumbling Dice and Start Me Up with the general common central theme of relationships, sexual usually, draped in nautical, or gambling/casino or automotive imagery. Perhaps you can think of others. One can imagine these songs being fun to write once you got started on the idea.

Quote
swiss

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Great thread, great song, great posts from Doxa, Witness Swiss and others. To me the album sounds like someone reminiscing, crying, getting high, f-ing, trying to boost the ego, longing for a lost love, a dead friend, and finally in this last gem of a song, screaming inside the cell on the island of Saint Helena or maybe screaming outside the island, on a boat, escaping the hell hole where the prisoner spilled out his life to the muddy walls. The album is a monologue.

Brilliant -- brilliant!! One of the best things I've "heard articulated" about Exile.

71Tele -- agreed -- and I did say Mick polished it up in LA -- however, it still has mildew on the walls
- no matter how much Mediterranean white wall wash was swathed over it! And you know me better than to
imagine I think there's "filler" in Exile....except maybe like some spackle for my own soul...that kind
of "filler."

Rockman, I certainly didn't say party...I said 10-day bender. Tho' could be one 72-hour night or 3 months...

treaclef, love your post -- cognitive dissonance, without any angst, all rolling by.

Thanks Swiss!

Quote
swiss

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Great thread, great song, great posts from Doxa, Witness Swiss and others. To me the album sounds like someone reminiscing, crying, getting high, f-ing, trying to boost the ego, longing for a lost love, a dead friend, and finally in this last gem of a song, screaming inside the cell on the island of Saint Helena or maybe screaming outside the island, on a boat, escaping the hell hole where the prisoner spilled out his life to the muddy walls. The album is a monologue.

Brilliant -- brilliant!! One of the best things I've "heard articulated" about Exile.

71Tele -- agreed -- and I did say Mick polished it up in LA -- however, it still has mildew on the walls
- no matter how much Mediterranean white wall wash was swathed over it! And you know me better than to
imagine I think there's "filler" in Exile....except maybe like some spackle for my own soul...that kind
of "filler."

Rockman, I certainly didn't say party...I said 10-day bender. Tho' could be one 72-hour night or 3 months...

treaclef, love your post -- cognitive dissonance, without any angst, all rolling by.

No, no. My "filler" comment was not about you. I was having fun with the other thread we just did on "overrated" albums.

Thanks Swiss!



ROCKMAN

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Weren't Mick AND Keith touching Exile up in LA?

And once again: Don't forget the "oldies" that also made this album great.

Loving Cup
Shine A Light
Shake Your Hips
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia
Sweet Black Angel
All Down The Line
Stop Breaking Down

All of these songs were either pre prod-recorded or written in 1969 or 1970...

A quick look at these songs (Thanks Dandy for bringing them up here).

Theoretically all of them could have been released in STICKY FINGERS or LET IT BLEED, right (even though none of them were ready to be released, or at least having the form they ended up in EXILE)?

Of all EXILE songs, I think "Loving Cup" is probably the most challenging one sturucturewise, and it have that Jagger/Richards ambitious touch they had especially 1968/69 to make 'big songs'. It seemingly a potential LET IT BLEED song (Hyde Park performance confirms that), but failed to make it (challenged by, say, "Gimme Shelter", "Midnight Rambler". "You Can't Always Get What You Want", and, probably its biggest rival, "Let It Bleed). Probably the album would have been too 'heavy' on those kind of songs; we needed "Live With Me", "You Got the Silver", etc. kind of songs to make the album breath more. I do understand the decision to leave it out. For STICKY FINGERS they had enough new, different sounding material and pretty hard to imagine "Loving Cup" there (one "Sister Morphine" was enough 'from the vaults').

"Shine A Light", if I recall right, is another song from the 68/69 era. Probably having gospel in LET IT BLEED or STICKY FINGERS wasn't artistically right move yet? STICKY FINGERS is a showcase for how many different musical genres the Stones are able to do by sounding original, but there was no room for everything (yet). Was it Jagger or Richards who once said that there were songs that made EXILE but were not "fitting" - instead of being good enough - for earlier albums? Especially this song comes to mind (to an extent "Loving Cup" I guess too).

Then we have two cover blues songs, "Hip Shake" and "Stop Breaking Down" (both from Jagger's country home sessions?). Difficult to say how seriously they were done. It was, however, "You Gotta Move" that made STICKY FINGERS, for a reason or other fitting there better. No matter how great - and different - "Hip Shake" is, I don't think there was more room for covers in STICKY FINGERS. And most likely if EXILE would not have been a double album, we would not have seen two cover songs there. (Once again the utility of a double: enough room).

Why "Sweet Virginia" was left out of STICKY FINGERS I guess is easy to understand. It was "Wild Horses" and "Dead Flowers" it needed compete against, and including three country numbers in a single album would have given a bit too heavy picture of band's direction. Too much is too much. I guess the issue was between "Sweet Virginia" and "Dead Flowers", a tongue-in-a-cheek numbers - "Wild Horses" was something different ('honest'). Understable decision.

Then we have two songs that seemed to be long-time works in process, "Tumbling Dice" and "All Down The Line". That is to say that they had high hopes for both of them, but weren't satisfied with results earlier. They seemingly worked hard for both of them to get them 'right'. For that reason I think they are EXILE numbers, not any 'earlier rejects', but very constitution to the new album to come. It just took them longer, but they were sure they will record them (me thinks). They were the potential followers of "Jumpin' Jack Flash", "Honky Tonk Women" and "Brown Sugar" (If I recall right, it was between them which will be the leading single.) Gig regulars, and probably the most well-known songs, with "Happy", from EXILE ever since.

We are finally left with "Sweet Black Angel". I don't know anything of its history, not even that it was such a 'older song'. Probably sharing the fate with "Shine A Light". Not a 'suitable' song for STICKY FINGERS?

In the end, I think it is rather safe to say that the Stones were so damn productive qualitywise in 1968-70 that an album like EXILE, taking care of the best leftovers, was quite a natural move to make sooner or later... But the point is that the genious of the album is that the result is damn organ and cohesive, and so 1972, that is to say: they did a helluva job in finishing, over-dubbing and mixing the songs!

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-09-11 10:53 by Doxa.

In a way, Shine A Light is Salt Of The Earth part III.

It's the third gospel-ish song in a row, after SOTE and YCAGWYW.

Had they finished it, and included it as the album ender on SF, people would probably have expected all Stones albums to end with a gospel-song from there on

What a brilliant string of songs!

Do let me put a long story short: 'why certain EXILE songs didn't make LET IT BLEED/STICK FINGERS'...

"Loving Cup": a sister song "Let It Bleed" first, and then other 'oldie' "Sister Morphine" standing in a way.
"Shine A Light" and "Sweet Black Angel": not fitting to the mood and nature of the albums earlier.
"Hip Shake" and "Stop Breaking Down": 'just covers', "You Gotta Move" standing in a way.
"Sweet Virginia": a sister song "Dead Flowers" standing in a way.
"Tumbling Dice" and "All Down The Line": not ready yet.

Guessing shouldn't hurt anyone...



- Doxa

Quote
DandelionPowderman
In a way, Shine A Light is Salt Of The Earth part III.

It's the third gospel-ish song in a row, after SOTE and YCAGWYW.

Had they finished it, and included it as the album ender on SF, people would probably have expected all Stones albums to end with a gospel-song from there on

What a brilliant string of songs!

Very good observation! I didn't realize the connection. Thanks!

It really belongs that type of 'chorus'-heavy 'gospelish' songs, and probably they wanted to change the course in STICKY FINGERS, even though "Moonlight Mile" continues that 'epic' feel, but by different means, like the two big closers earlier.

So, if the 'competion' was with YCAGWYW (if it was ready yet) and MM, hmmm.... no wonder it didn't make it!

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-09-11 11:17 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa
We are finally left with "Sweet Black Angel". I don't know anything of its history, not even that it was such a 'older song'.
- Doxa

One source has Anita stating it was played over and over at Nellcote but "Sweet Black Angel" is usually said being a more or less complete instrumental backing track from Stargroves (under the title "Bent Green Needles" ).

Here´s an interesting quote from Trevor Churchill in "EXILE" about those "old tracks":
I went down to Nellcote with rough mixes of all the material I´d found and remember them listening to them and saying "God, that´s pretty good, what is all this?" One of the tracks that I specifically remember was "Shake Your Hips" which definitely came out of that bunch of tapes. Another was "Stop Breaking Down", and all the ones with Stu on the piano. There was also a version of the Jimi Hendrix song "Red House".

Stargroves yes.

This is what became Happy but it also has that Sweet black angel feel to it. When the Stones sit down and sing together.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-09-11 15:18 by Redhotcarpet.

Quote
RobberBride

Quote
Doxa
We are finally left with "Sweet Black Angel". I don't know anything of its history, not even that it was such a 'older song'.
- Doxa

One source has Anita stating it was played over and over at Nellcote but "Sweet Black Angel" is usually said being a more or less complete instrumental backing track from Stargroves (under the title "Bent Green Needles" ).

Here´s an interesting quote from Trevor Churchill in "EXILE" about those "old tracks":
I went down to Nellcote with rough mixes of all the material I´d found and remember them listening to them and saying "God, that´s pretty good, what is all this?" One of the tracks that I specifically remember was "Shake Your Hips" which definitely came out of that bunch of tapes. Another was "Stop Breaking Down", and all the ones with Stu on the piano. There was also a version of the Jimi Hendrix song "Red House".

Sweet Black Angel sounds to me like it was originally a folk kind of tune - perhaps Keith and Mick sitting round the fire at Stargroves or Redlands and just jamming a folk melody. The lyrics are perfect in helping enhance the Stones anti-establishment image and siding with those on the other side of the law. Remember, Jagger had recently made the film Ned Kelly.

Seems like they worked on Sweet Black Angel from Stargroves, via Olympic, via Nellcote (if what Anita says is true) to Sunset Sound Studios

Sweet Black Angel
Composers: Mick Jagger & Keith Richards
Recording date: October 1970 & December 1971-March 1972
Recording locations: Rolling Stones Mobile Unit, Mick Jagger's home, Newbury, England; Olympic Sound Studios, London, England
& Sunset Sound Studios, Los Angeles, USA

The lyrics are about Angela Davis, but I don't know when they abandoned the green needles and became more interested in her...

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Stargroves yes.

This is what became Happy but it also has that Sweet black angel feel to it. When the Stones sit down and sing together.

It's not possible being THAT literal when it comes to music, imo.

Yep, by pulling some of the chords out of this track, one can say that they are (almost) identical to the opening chords on Happy. There are some crucial differences in minor/major within those chords, though, and the chords work more like pure percussion in this song.

So to conclude with this being what became Happy is an enormous stretch, imo.

I'm with you on the caribbean "feel" you get from this rhythm, though, without thinking Sweet Black Angel right away



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-09-11 15:55 by DandelionPowderman.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Stargroves yes.

This is what became Happy but it also has that Sweet black angel feel to it. When the Stones sit down and sing together.

It's not possible being THAT literal when it comes to music.

Yep, by pulling some of the chords out of this track, one can say that they are (almost) identical to the opening chords on Happy. There are some crucial differences in minor/major within those chords, though, and the chords work more like pure percussion in this song.

So to conclude with this being what became Happy is an enormous stretch, imo.

I'm with you on the caribbean "feel" you get from this rhythm, though, without thinking Sweet Black Angel right away

Can't hear either Happy or Sweet Black Angel in there. Sounds more like the type of thing The Pretty Things were doing at the end of the 60s, especially on the Electric Banana albums.

Sure you can, the Happy riff is right there and the idea of the songs is there (Who Am I see I love you - I need a love/Anita love to keep me Happy). There s no way this isn't the blueprint for Happy. Also the feel, the rhythm of Sweet black angel. It's there.