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stoneheartedQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stonehearted
Plunder My Soul--that's the two Micks working together, quite creatively and with impressive results.
Is Mick's vocals and Taylor's guitar impressive on PMS?
I meant the track as a whole. Mick J has said how he could write against the melodic quality of Mick T's playing, and Plundered is another example of that.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
treaclefingersQuote
marcovandereijk
I think creativity is an overrated quality for a Rock 'n' Roll band.
It's what separates the greatest bands from average bands.
It's what takes the best from the past and creates a new path for the future, not simply regurgitating it.
Creativity coupled with competent musicianship are required.
Yeah, but you know too that it is a bit different with the Stones. None of the Stones were brilliant musicians that individually could stand out outside of the Stones bubble - merely as master musicians.
The swing and the groove that the Stones had/have is/was unique. Much of the reason for that was that they dared to keep it down, imo (aka simple, aka the groove). Then, all of a sudden they made Moonlight Mile. They couldn't have kept that up creatively - writing songs like that, and they knew it.
That's probably why they made Exile
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Raymond82
This is such a stupid thread. I don't post on here too often but I read it every day. From an outsider looking in, I'd swear people had it in for Mick Taylor.
All bands go through hot streaks and cold streaks, nobody is consistently brilliant. Mick Taylor's contribution is something to celebrate not query!!
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
stoneheartedQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stonehearted
Plunder My Soul--that's the two Micks working together, quite creatively and with impressive results.
Is Mick's vocals and Taylor's guitar impressive on PMS?
I meant the track as a whole. Mick J has said how he could write against the melodic quality of Mick T's playing, and Plundered is another example of that.
Is it? How?
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PhillyFAN
It is difficult to understand why many people want to disparage [Taylor] as much as they do.
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sonomastone
on the face of it, the evidence is clear.
...
but by the time he left, they had just released "it's only rock-n-roll," one of their worst albums to date.
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treaclefingersQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
treaclefingersQuote
marcovandereijk
I think creativity is an overrated quality for a Rock 'n' Roll band.
It's what separates the greatest bands from average bands.
It's what takes the best from the past and creates a new path for the future, not simply regurgitating it.
Creativity coupled with competent musicianship are required.
Yeah, but you know too that it is a bit different with the Stones. None of the Stones were brilliant musicians that individually could stand out outside of the Stones bubble - merely as master musicians.
The swing and the groove that the Stones had/have is/was unique. Much of the reason for that was that they dared to keep it down, imo (aka simple, aka the groove). Then, all of a sudden they made Moonlight Mile. They couldn't have kept that up creatively - writing songs like that, and they knew it.
That's probably why they made Exile
But you're arguing a point I didn't make. You're saying that none of the stones are brilliant musicians. That's exactly what I've said, I said they were competent and there is a massive difference between brilliant and competent. You don't need to be a brilliant musician to be amongst the pantheon of greatest groups.
You do need creativity, otherwise you just spit out what came before.
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funkydrummer
open tuning has immense possibility but it has always angered me that the Stones have barely bothered to explore them.
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StoneburstQuote
PhillyFAN
It is difficult to understand why many people want to disparage [Taylor] as much as they do.
Initially, they disparaged Taylor because he disrupts their mythology of the Stones (who the hell does this guy think he is, leaving the greatest rock and roll band in the world?) These days, they disparage him because when he played with them on the past tour he highlighted - both onstage and off - how mediocre they are now.
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DreamerQuote
treaclefingersQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
treaclefingersQuote
marcovandereijk
I think creativity is an overrated quality for a Rock 'n' Roll band.
It's what separates the greatest bands from average bands.
It's what takes the best from the past and creates a new path for the future, not simply regurgitating it.
Creativity coupled with competent musicianship are required.
Yeah, but you know too that it is a bit different with the Stones. None of the Stones were brilliant musicians that individually could stand out outside of the Stones bubble - merely as master musicians.
The swing and the groove that the Stones had/have is/was unique. Much of the reason for that was that they dared to keep it down, imo (aka simple, aka the groove). Then, all of a sudden they made Moonlight Mile. They couldn't have kept that up creatively - writing songs like that, and they knew it.
That's probably why they made Exile
But you're arguing a point I didn't make. You're saying that none of the stones are brilliant musicians. That's exactly what I've said, I said they were competent and there is a massive difference between brilliant and competent. You don't need to be a brilliant musician to be amongst the pantheon of greatest groups.
You do need creativity, otherwise you just spit out what came before.
At the same time lots of bands and people did not make it while having a lot more creativity.. Most important factor? Luck.
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StoneburstQuote
PhillyFAN
It is difficult to understand why many people want to disparage [Taylor] as much as they do.
Initially, they disparaged Taylor because he disrupts their mythology of the Stones (who the hell does this guy think he is, leaving the greatest rock and roll band in the world?) These days, they disparage him because when he played with them on the past tour he highlighted - both onstage and off - how mediocre they are now.
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three16
Mick Taylor is responsible for removing himself from the band and therefor seizing his own ability to create within the band. In walks Ronnie and the rest is history.
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Doxa
There is one thing peculiar in those three albums - GHS, IORR, B&B - in compared to the 'Big Four': that of lacking almost totally references to American country music tradition. In many ways that source of inspiration was a rather constitutional element in the blues rock sound they created in those four milestone albums - and in "Honky Tonk Women". Why that happened? I somehow always tend to link the country element more to Keith Richards than to Jagger. Was Gram's death so shocking to Keith that he dropped playing the stuff for years? Or is that an indication of his drug problems affecting on his creativity - or losing the power in the band? If it has something to do with Jagger, the most I can think of him thinking that 'country rock' is too passe or too 'red-neck' for the Stones to record any longer. But that wasn't the case, or was it?
Anyway, it is interesting that the country element is strongly back again in SOME GIRLS sessions, almost totally in contrast to the trends of the day (or at least it looks like that). The SOME GIRLS bonus album rather strongly confirmed this. Johnny Rotten or Village People were not any big country & western lovers, now were them? Whatever the truth is, this is at least an example why creativity, inspiration, following trends etc. are not so easily to put into simple causal relations, and the story behind them is much more complex...
- Doxa
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DandelionPowderman
Wasn't the song IORR huge back then, with the saying in graffiti all over the place and all?
Surely, they must still have been relevant up to a point in 1974?
They couldn't tour, though, and Taylor left. BAB was merely a session album for new guitar players. So, the cool, calm and collectedness just wasn't there before 1978 - when they really hit hard. I'm pretty sure they would have anyway, punk or no punk. They were a real working band again in 1978, for the first time since 1973.
The ridiculous amount of music - all styles of music - shows a very active band again.
And let's not forget it was Miss You that made them relevant again, not Respectable
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sonomastone
on the face of it, the evidence is clear. just prior to hiring taylor, the stones had recorded "beggar's banquet" and "let it bleed," two of their greatest albums. they were on a roll.
but by the time he left, they had just released "it's only rock-n-roll," one of their worst albums to date.
however, i'm inclined to give taylor some more credit than that. clearly heroin and distractions of being rich and comfortable took some of the edge of their creativity too.
what do you think, is mick taylor the reason the band completely tanked creatively in the mid-70s?
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Silver Dagger
And the input he gave to Sticky Fingers, Exile and Goats Head Soup was immense.
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funkydrummer
I agree that open tuning has immense possibility but it has always angered me that the Stones have barely bothered to explore them.
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LuxuryStones
Anyone with a musical ear can hear similarities in Jagger's melody lines and Taylor's melodic conception during critical moments
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LuxuryStonesQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stoneheartedQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stonehearted
Plunder My Soul--that's the two Micks working together, quite creatively and with impressive results.
Is Mick's vocals and Taylor's guitar impressive on PMS?
I meant the track as a whole. Mick J has said how he could write against the melodic quality of Mick T's playing, and Plundered is another example of that.
Is it? How?
Anyone with a musical ear can hear similarities in Jagger's melody lines and Taylor's melodic conception during critical moments, songs like "Moonlight Mile" and live versions of YCAGWYW, or Heartbreaker. Taylor and Jagger spent a lot of time together, they must have inspired each other musically. That's the "how". What else do you want to dispute, songwriting again?