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His Majesty


"I will send the cassette to you as soon as possible. Your contact has stirred some memories, I think the tapes contain nazi speeches set to experimental music. There's only about 30 minutes of music."

Wow! This is dissapointing if this is true. This will not be received well. The media will have a field day. It might be better if you listen to the tapes and then do a detailed synopsis for everyone. Then do a (I won't mention his name) and toss them in the fire. 45 years later and he still can't get a break. Maybe the speech part can be edited out and only the music remains.

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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-12 00:54 by His Majesty.

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ovalvox

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His Majesty


"I will send the cassette to you as soon as possible. Your contact has stirred some memories, I think the tapes contain nazi speeches set to experimental music. There's only about 30 minutes of music."

Wow! This is dissapointing if this is true. This will not be received well. The media will have a field day. It might be better if you listen to the tapes and then do a detailed synopsis for everyone. Then do a (I won't mention his name) and toss them in the fire. 45 years later and he still can't get a break. Maybe the speech part can be edited out and only the music remains.

That would be a most unwise and unfortunate move, in addition to doing a disservice to the composer by removing the music from its original intended context.

Consider the reason Brian allowed himself to be photographed in a Nazi uniform to begin with: It's the same motivation that led the punks 10 years later to don Nazi symbols and the like--as a rebellious piss take, to trivialize and even lampoon the madness that so ravaged their landscape and changed and destroyed so many lives. It's a coping mechanism.

Anyone who doesn't understand the context of transforming madness and tragedy into humor through rebellion just suffers from pure ignorance. And if this includes people in the media with their soapbox of self-righteous indignation, then they are just part of the problem and have no business throwing stones at a Stone.

For all we know, the composition(s) over these speeches may well serve as musical comedy to render the subject matter as ridiculous. I say, give the material a chance, consider the context of the composer's intentions and the times in which he lived, before condemning it out of hand.

Well said.

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stonehearted

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ovalvox

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His Majesty


"I will send the cassette to you as soon as possible. Your contact has stirred some memories, I think the tapes contain nazi speeches set to experimental music. There's only about 30 minutes of music."

Wow! This is dissapointing if this is true. This will not be received well. The media will have a field day. It might be better if you listen to the tapes and then do a detailed synopsis for everyone. Then do a (I won't mention his name) and toss them in the fire. 45 years later and he still can't get a break. Maybe the speech part can be edited out and only the music remains.

That would be a most unwise and unfortunate move, in addition to doing a disservice to the composer by removing the music from its original intended context.

Consider the reason Brian allowed himself to be photographed in a Nazi uniform to begin with: It's the same motivation that led the punks 10 years later to don Nazi symbols and the like--as a rebellious piss take, to trivialize and even lampoon the madness that so ravaged their landscape and changed and destroyed so many lives. It's a coping mechanism.

Anyone who doesn't understand the context of transforming madness and tragedy into humor through rebellion just suffers from pure ignorance. And if this includes people in the media with their soapbox of self-righteous indignation, then they are just part of the problem and have no business throwing stones at a Stone.

For all we know, the composition(s) over these speeches may well serve as musical comedy to render the subject matter as ridiculous. I say, give the material a chance, consider the context of the composer's intentions and the times in which he lived, before condemning it out of hand.

I just don't want to see Brian get another raw deal. If he did record with Nazi whatever we'll never know what his intentions were. The media misconstrued the Jack boot Nazi pose in the 60's. This could be why the tapes never surfaced till now. He's not alive to offer any explaination. The media may not really care at this point but they could basically spin this anyway they want to. Most likely in a negative fashion. I'd still like to hear the music but not if it will be taken in a negative way and the guy destroyed even further by the media and hardcore Mick and Keith fans. The tapes we all want to hear are from Cotchford Farm 1969 but those we all fear were destroyed the night he died. He must have been with Anita when this was recorded. Maybe Keith is on it as well since he lived with them for awhile, and the two were jamming together again. That would be priceless. The reference to potentially anything nazi just makes it controversial even if it was potentially a joke. I can envision @#$%& rambling in the background while the music mocks him. That would be phenominal. Well hopefully HM will shed some positive thoughts on this after he listens to it.

and toss them in the fire. ..... WHAT????



ROCKMAN

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His Majesty
If the tapes date from before the whole Morocco mess maybe Keith will be on these the recordings too. I'm wondering where he/they might have sourced nazi speeches from? TV? It's a weird world so maybe they were they released on lp's?

I was hoping Keith was on it too. It has been written that Keith and Brian jammed together like the early Edith Grove days when Keith lived with him and Anita. Maybe they jammed one night while listening to one of @#$%&'s public speech lunatic ramblings and jammed to it. Of course Keith is alive and could offer an explaination. Wishful thinking. If it is experimental it's Brian possibly on the mellotron with possible overdubs and no Keith. I just hope the musical quality is good and that you report that Brian did a fine job regardless what other content is on there.

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Rockman
and toss them in the fire. ..... WHAT????

Yeah I should have thought that out better before I posted it. I don't want to see Brian scandalized by the media. He's been beat up enough the last 50 years.

I volunteer to do any reel-to-reel or tape transfers!

I don't want to see Brian scandalized by the media. He's been beat up enough the last 50 years.

..... maybe better ta burn his enemies... ya reckon????.....



ROCKMAN

Having been around a long time, I am not buying what many hereon are selling. Everyone says Brian has been so "maligned" thru the years, or marginalized thru the years. Horse hockey! A motion picture, a group named after him, and book after book after book written about him? Maligned and marginalized? REALLY? C'mon! He was a founder but his input (for all real purposes) into original stuff was during 63-68. Sorry, he offered nothing in 69, despite JR's insistence that Brian was on an early Rambler that was worth hearing.

Does anyone else understand that he wrote nothing of any import, and the ONLY result of his "work" besides as a band member is a little-heard soundtrack of very ordinary (for its time) music and a little bought or heard recording of African music? I hear "Mick & Keith mistreated him." and "He was so fragile." We have nothing but conjecture to base any opinion on.

It is clear that some really WANT to think that there is something of value, be it a rehearsal of his No Expectations solo, maybe a (gasp!) vocal, or even something where someone on this list can LEGITIMATELY cry, "Mick & Keith took this from him and wrote this BIG song." on this or these tapes. "Lose your dreams and you can lose your mind."

Let's HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE and even HOPE there is something of interest here, as I, for one, would love to hear GOOD stuff, not the schleck of before!

Kick me like you kicked before
I can't even feel the pain no more

"Rocks Off", Exile on Main Street
Rolling Stones, 1972

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-12 00:55 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty


I think the tapes contain nazi speeches set to experimental music. There's only about 30 minutes of music."

I think it could be an Art- Experimental Soundtrack, and maybe Anita was there.. it looks interesting to me

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runaway

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His Majesty


I think the tapes contain nazi speeches set to experimental music. There's only about 30 minutes of music."

I think it could be an Art- Experimental Soundtrack, and maybe Anita was there.. it looks interesting to me

All sorts of possibilities for it to be very interesting - though it does not sound like material for commercial release (or, fortunately, something that ABKCO will want to lay claim to!) However, I can see it igniting a big censorship debate, if that description is accurate.

I am sceptical

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His Majesty

"I think the tapes contain nazi speeches set to experimental music. There's only about 30 minutes of music."

So... when he said Brian an @sshole, a jerk, a guy who never could finish writing a song, etc etc Keith was right after all...?

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ovalvox

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Blueranger

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ovalvox

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Blueranger

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His Majesty

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Blueranger
Whatever it is, it will certainly bring out some evidence and shed some light regarding his compositorial skills.
Those who claim that he wrote Ruby Tuesday, will be either surprised or dissapointed.

Seems you are putting too much weight on a snap shot of some home recordings.

We know he could compose already, his contributions to the stones and his soundtrack are proof of that.

Anybody can compose, but there is a difference of putting some chords together or adding textures to someone's songs, compared to actually 'write' a song with both words and music. I presume Brian was in the first category.
I don't expect anything other than historic relevance from these tapes.
The soundtrack is typical mid-sixties hipster music, and not peticular great at all. If this is all what this 'great mastermind' could come up with, I'm glad he contributed the things to the Stones he did, and not anything else.

First of all not just anybody can compose. You need some musical ability and knowledge. Second of all, as you marginalize Brian Jones let me educate you. The Last Time. Take Brian's dominating guitar out and Mick and Keith don't have a hit. As far as I'm concerned he took a mediocre song and turned it into a hit. Take Brian's textures out of Aftermath and see if the Stones would have competed with Dylan's Blonde on Blonde and the Beatles Rubber Soul and Revolver. As for A Degree of Murder. The film maker liked what Brian did so your opinion doesn't really matter. Considering the shape he was in he did a good job. Lastly, if not for "this great mastermind" there would not have been any Rolling Stones. No one will ever accuse Brian of being a songwriter. And if he didn't fall apart at the seams he would have contributed a lot more and made the stones even better than they were so lighten up on the guy.

Maybe I wasn't that clear, but listen up: I am a great admire of Brian Jones. I am sure he could compose, which is why his musical skills in the Stones were so important. But he didn't write the song. He added musical textures to them and made them even better. There is a difference. I love his contributions to the records, no doubt.
Regarding the soundtrack, does people really enjoy it? If it wasn't Brian's name on it, wouldn't people be less than overstatic? Compared to what he did with The Stones, the soundtrack is poor.
The term "The Great Mastermind" was a provocation. There are people who believe that The Stones were nothing without him. Well, now they have played 45 years without him and arguebly made their best records when he was out of the band. Those people who swear to Jones and nothing else are idolising him and are taking his persona out of the musical context.

Maybe I misunderstood you. I Haved read a lot of knocks on Brian Jones over the years. Some deserved. Some not. My opinion of a texture is Brian's riff on Mothers. Dulcimer on I am Waiting, etc. The Last Time I would consider his repetitive riff as far more. It dominates the entire song. It completely makes the song. And like I said he'll never be accused of being a songwriter. He has been marginalized more and more over the years. I think he deserves credit for what he did with and without the stones. Nothing more. Nothing less. So if I misunderstood you then my appologies.

I agree. He deserves the credit for what he did. He was a musical magician.

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CaptainCorella
I think that any value of these tapes, other than archival & historic just vanished.

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ovalvox
It might be better if you listen to the tapes and then do a detailed synopsis for everyone. Then do a (I won't mention his name) and toss them in the fire.

I can't believe what I am reading.
We are talking about private home recording tapes which were not supposed to be release officially and that nobody here has heard yet...
As a bootleg collectioner, I am fond of every note played by the stones in studio.
For once we have the opportunity to hear some BJ solo works it is a unique chance not to pass.
I don't care about political speeches, Goering mercedes, ss uniforms, etc...
Fortunately "His Majesty" won't follow some crazy advices given here by some people who react by mixing all without discernment.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-12 00:55 by His Majesty.

I think Bill Wyman, who knew him, unlike the judgmental poster above, said it best: "He wasn't an angel--but he wasn't a devil either. He was... something in the middle. He was alright."

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mitch

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CaptainCorella
I think that any value of these tapes, other than archival & historic just vanished.

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ovalvox
It might be better if you listen to the tapes and then do a detailed synopsis for everyone. Then do a (I won't mention his name) and toss them in the fire.

I can't believe what I am reading.
We are talking about private home recording tapes which were not supposed to be release officially and that nobody here has heard yet...
As a bootleg collectioner, I am fond of every note played by the stones in studio.
For once we have the opportunity to hear some BJ solo works it is a unique chance not to pass.
I don't care about political speeches, Goering mercedes, ss uniforms, etc...
Fortunately "His Majesty" won't follow some crazy advices given here by some people who react by mixing all without discernment.

Come on everybody. I am a german and I guess my grandpa was a nazi (we don't talked about that). History is tragic, yes. But I love the british nazi humor. Thats great. BJ in a nazi uniform -- i love it. Prince Harry -- @#$%& great. That kind of sarcastic humor is the way to handle that one of the most misanthropic periods in history of mankind. Just because everybody can be sure that BJ and Price Harry really don't want to spread nazi ideas. So what the @#$%&. As long as averybody is complaining about such provocations, I love it.

Would be funny to hear a nazi speech with some fancy spacy 60ies hippie synthie music. Why not?

Well, please. Don't mention the war. Wasn't @#$%& the young guy on Ya Ya's yelling "paint it black, you devils!"?

NEWS FLASH PEOPLE: BRIAN JONES WAS AN @#$%& !
ANYTHING THIS MAN DID WHILE ALIVE SHOULD SURPRISE NO ONE.
IT IS AMAZING THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO REVERE HIS MEMORY AS A PERSON.
CHECK HIS RECORD WITH WOMEN & CHILDREN, FOLKS.
AND BILL'S QUOTE IS HIGH PRAISE FROM SOMEONE WHO HAD SEX WITH A 14YR OLD.
BRING IT ON.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-12 00:55 by His Majesty.

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty


"I will send the cassette to you as soon as possible. Your contact has stirred some memories, I think the tapes contain nazi speeches set to experimental music. There's only about 30 minutes of music."

That's our concept boy...

..then most probably it's the tape he scared the monkeys in Gibraltar with...

just adding to the discussion visually...

Honestly, it's a long time ago that anything about the Stones got me interested.
I don't care about their current blingbling-cameo-tour or whatever they did over the last 20+ years.
But now I'm looking forward what comes up regarding Brian's recordings.

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stonesstein
I hear "Mick & Keith mistreated him." and "He was so fragile." We have nothing but conjecture to base any opinion on.

Well, we have Spanish Tony's Up & Down with the Rolling Stones.

........maybe a lil' more pink an green while we wait so patiently ...



ROCKMAN

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-12 00:56 by His Majesty.