You're welcome --there's some more (from 1965) in this thread, though I think it's mostly about clothes!

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Blueranger
The Circus were live, but a set-up.
The last live performance before public, were the NME concert.

Ok the Circus may have been the last time he stood on stage but when was the last time he was plugged in, actually playing in front of an live audience?

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DiscoVolante

Ok the Circus may have been the last time he stood on stage but when was the last time he was plugged in, actually playing in front of an live audience?

He was plugged in and actually playing in front of a live audience at R&R Circus.

They just mixed him very low on 2 of the tracks (JJF & TCAGWYW) and audible, but relatively low on 1 track (Parachute Woman) on the official CD/DVD release.

Is there any way to hear Brian clearly in the Circus? Does anyone have any way to turn him up or isolate him?

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Jayce
Is there any way to hear Brian clearly in the Circus? Does anyone have any way to turn him up or isolate him?

It could be attempted using OOPS method, but it helps if you know what he's playing. Seek out the bootleg outtakes of Parachute Woman and YCAGWYW, he's more audile on those, basic Chuck Berry rhythm on PW, basic strummed partial chords on YCAGWYW.

I notice some people (mostly deluded Brian Jones fans) seem to think he's playing the main intro guitar on YCAGWYW. Oops of a different kind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-15 11:47 by His Majesty.

Tony Iommi talks about R'n'R Circus in his book Iron Man. Keith and Brian having a shouting match across the stage about one of them being out of tune.

Brian was probably the culprit... and his spirit haunted Keith's guitars during the Hyde Park show!

They always had problems with their guitars and tuning.Until they hired helping hands.

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dcba
Brian was probably the culprit... and his spirit haunted Keith's guitars during the Hyde Park show!

Haha.

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His Majesty

He was plugged in and actually playing in front of a live audience at R&R Circus.

They just mixed him very low on 2 of the tracks (JJF & TCAGWYW) and audible, but relatively low on 1 track (Parachute Woman) on the official CD/DVD release.

What a dirty trick.

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kleermaker

What a dirty trick.

Common practice by then.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-15 22:50 by His Majesty.

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dcba
Brian was probably the culprit... and his spirit haunted Keith's guitars during the Hyde Park show!

As well as large portions of the 69 tour

I was listening to JJFlash at an incredibly loud volume this morning on the way to a gig and I thought I finally heard Brian Jones on a few parts. Very subtle, just providing a few harmonizing notes to accent Keith. Very low in the mix. I could hear nothing on Parachute Woman. Slide on No Expectations is loud n clear. Are there any other moments when he can be heard clearly? Is what I heard on JJFlash just Keith's open tuning harmonizing?

No harmonising from Brian on JJF, he's shown playing a very basic version of the riff and just bar chords during the chorus.

Keith is in standard tuning for the whole set. Maybe the harmonising you hear is from Nicky's piano.

Brian plays basic Chuck Berry rhythm on PW and it's audible, but mixed low, if I remember correctly it's placed more to the left speaker.

On YCAGWYW he plays the low 3 strings playing partial chords, then moves to first position D chord and then back to the C low 3 string version of C chord. Basically just basic strumming on unimportant low notes of C and F chords for the majority of the track, mixed low.

He's shown playing during the intro, but his guitar isn't actually audible until the band comes in on the D chord "try some time..." . The bass mostly drowns out his guitar even when it is brought in.

There's actually a very quiet overdubbed guitar playing during the intro doing a different variation of what Brian is shown playing. This goes away when the band kicks in.

Imagine giving a beginner guitarist some basic parts to play along with the stones, that's kinda the extent of Brians guitar playing at R&R Circus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-17 23:57 by His Majesty.

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DandelionPowderman

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dcba
Brian was probably the culprit... and his spirit haunted Keith's guitars during the Hyde Park show!

As well as large portions of the 69 tour

And also one of Marianne's dreams.

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His Majesty
No harmonising from Brian on JJF, he's shown playing a very basic version of the riff and just bar chords during the chorus.

Keith is in standard tuning for the whole set. Maybe the harmonising you hear is from Nicky's piano.

Brian plays basic Chuck Berry rhythm on PW and it's audible, but mixed low, if I remember correctly it's placed more to the left speaker.

On YCAGWYW he plays the low 3 strings playing partial chords, then moves to first position D chord and then back to the C low 3 string version of C chord. Basically just basic strumming on unimportant low notes of C and F chords for the majority of the track, mixed low.

He's shown playing during the intro, but his guitar isn't actually audible until the band comes in on the D chord "try some time..." . The bass mostly drowns out his guitar even when it is brought in.

There's actually a very quiet overdubbed guitar playing during the intro doing a different variation of what Brian is shown playing. This goes away when the band kicks in.

Imagine giving a beginner guitarist some basic parts to play along with the stones, that's kinda the extent of Brians guitar playing at R&R Circus.

I have never understood this whole element of the Brian Jones saga. How does a guy who plays shimmering parts like slide on "No Expectations," funky harmonica on various tracks, imaginative mellotron parts through 1968 simply lose it on basic guitar accompaniment? DId he simply just not give a @#$%&, or was he physically incapable of staying in rhythm? I am not a professional musician; I am an intermediate on a few instruments (guitar, drums, bass, piano). EVen at my most inebriated or otherwise compromised state of mind, I am able to do basic things. I am not bragging about this, just using my [limited] skills as a benchmark for my utter confusion about Brian Jones incredible instrumental inconsistency after spring 1968.

By most accounts, after losing his woman, he was still able to function creatively in the studio, to often dazzling degrees (think "We Love You," Satanic, select Beggars tracks, etc.). Yet, as far as I can see, it's the May drug bust that finished him. But as @#$%& up as one gets, does he simply FORGET how to play his @#$%& instrument? It could not be sober inability; it had to be refusal or mind-altered inability. I am babbling, but this is how frustrating this period is for me. To go from such dazzling creativity to out-of-tune incompetence in a few months - or seemingly on a dime, if we look at May 1968 as some kind of important date?

The only comparison I see is to Keith Moon - but even at his worst, he delivered (definitely not to his once incredible heights, but to more mortal levels). Brian, however, seems to have simply LOST IT. What the @#$%&? Help!

He started saying his fingers hurt at sessions as early as 1966 or 1967, that's a sure sign of someone neglecting to play guitar enough. He later developed big time anxiety about playing with the stones. He was also an ill little mixed up boy who was on various prescription drugs and was a full on alcoholic.

Yes, the May 1968 bust and resulting wait for court case in September seems to have been a near deadly blow to what ever spirit he had left.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-18 04:32 by His Majesty.

Some obviously bad Brian guitar playing can be heard on early takes of The Lantern on the Satanic Sessions.

It's clear from the sound of his acoustic that he's not fretting the chords well, the sound is all buzzy and farty like when a beginner - intermediate guitarist gets shown a chord they don't know.

Maybe Brian was just wasted, but his fretting, note choice and rhythm are all kinda out to varying degrees with what the rest of the band is doing so the shakyness etc was there in 1967 already. It sounds noticabley different to someone just making mistakes. There's plenty of mistakes from Keith in those box sets, but his acoustic playing just has a whole lot more assured sound quality to it.

I think Brian lost his touch on guitar, but managed to carry it on a bit with slide for a while longer (in to spring 1968) as it doesn't quite require the same force and consistency with regards to fretting individual notes.

No Expectations at R&R Circus is a sorrowful thing to view. I think it is Brian's obvious bad condition, lost abilities and distance from the band that was the main reasons for the film not being released within reasonable time after the filming.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-18 04:35 by His Majesty.

How was his guitar playing on the 1967 tour? Any different then the 1966 tour(s)? I know he was playing other instruments on stage, but assume he was still playing guitar on some songs...

I had not heard about the pained fingers. Jesus.

HM, I have heard your postings of "The Lantern" takes on YouTube and Brian's playing, but had forgotten about that. That was "FLy My Kite," right?

Re: his appearance and demeanor at the Circus - His makeup certainly doesn't help.

But man, when he was on - even at his lowest - could he just create transcendent music. As simple as it is, I think his work on "No Expectations" is one of the greatest things I have ever heard.

Why the hell did they change the key at the Circus?

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Jayce
The only comparison I see is to Keith Moon - but even at his worst, he delivered

Well, not entirely. Apparently the Who Are You sessions had to be cut short as a result of Moon's impairments. For one track, Music Must Change, he could not handle the timing needed, so as a result a foot/shoe walking across the floor had to be substituted instead, and that's why there's no drums on that track.

But of course, there is another poster on this forum who could provide the full details.

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2000 LYFH
How was his guitar playing on the 1967 tour? Any different then the 1966 tour(s)? I know he was playing other instruments on stage, but assume he was still playing guitar on some songs...

Similar to how he played in 1966 US tour, but some what different.

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His Majesty
No harmonising from Brian on JJF, he's shown playing a very basic version of the riff and just bar chords during the chorus.

Keith is in standard tuning for the whole set. Maybe the harmonising you hear is from Nicky's piano.

Brian plays basic Chuck Berry rhythm on PW and it's audible, but mixed low, if I remember correctly it's placed more to the left speaker.

On YCAGWYW he plays the low 3 strings playing partial chords, then moves to first position D chord and then back to the C low 3 string version of C chord. Basically just basic strumming on unimportant low notes of C and F chords for the majority of the track, mixed low.

He's shown playing during the intro, but his guitar isn't actually audible until the band comes in on the D chord "try some time..." . The bass mostly drowns out his guitar even when it is brought in.

There's actually a very quiet overdubbed guitar playing during the intro doing a different variation of what Brian is shown playing. This goes away when the band kicks in.

Imagine giving a beginner guitarist some basic parts to play along with the stones, that's kinda the extent of Brians guitar playing at R&R Circus.

Thank you for the clarification. You confirmed what I had thought since I first heard the recording. The harmonizing I am referring to is the twangs that occur at the very very end of JJFlash. The riff is all Keith but I believe I hear a 3rd note in there. Two are clearly from Keith's guitar. The third seems to have different timing and bending. Probably just my overactive imagination. Keith is compensating for lacking someone to duel with.

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flacnvinyl
Keith is compensating for lacking someone to duel with.

Indeed.

I think Brian's limited playing on the R&R Circus might be explained by the fact that the simply hadn't learned the songs properly. Maybe he had been absent for so many of their '68 sessions and was so out of touch with what the band was doing that he just had to stick with extremely simple guitar playing when he finally hit the stage.

If true, it would only be part of the explanation, I suppose. One would expect Brian "Elmo Lewis" Jones to have a far better grasp of a pure 12 bar blues like Parachute Woman, compared to what he did at R&R Circus, no matter how absent he was at the time of the song's inception.

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LieB
I think Brian's limited playing on the R&R Circus might be explained by the fact that the simply hadn't learned the songs properly. Maybe he had been absent for so many of their '68 sessions and was so out of touch with what the band was doing that he just had to stick with extremely simple guitar playing when he finally hit the stage.

If true, it would only be part of the explanation, I suppose. One would expect Brian "Elmo Lewis" Jones to have a far better grasp of a pure 12 bar blues like Parachute Woman, compared to what he did at R&R Circus, no matter how absent he was at the time of the song's inception.

He plays a chuck berry rhythm on PW much as he would have done for other similar types of songs in the past. There's nothing wrong with what he plays on that, but for what ever reason, they just decided to not have his guitar be all that audible for it.

What you describe is probably true for YCAGWYW though, present, but did nothing for the track when it was recorded during a November 1968 session.

HM, is there any extant recording of the NME Poll Winners Concert in 1968? I wonder how he played JJF then.

The other thing is that I would guess there is NOT a multitrack recording available. Instead it was mixed at the gig live just like normal TV. I do find it odd that JJFlash is mostly mono where Keith's guitar is faded to the right on YCAGWYW.

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flacnvinyl
The other thing is that I would guess there is NOT a multitrack recording available. Instead it was mixed at the gig live just like normal TV. I do find it odd that JJFlash is mostly mono where Keith's guitar is faded to the right on YCAGWYW.

It was recorded to multi-track, atleast 4 track.

Always wondered why the entire set was played in standard tuning? Was it because Keith's now standard practice of changing guitars (of various tunings) every song, or every few songs had not yet been developed?