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Koen

Quote
mr_dja
Now that we know the "what", I wish we could know the "why". Maybe if DoomandGloom can find a set and run a test we'll see if he notices any differences.

I think they are made of snake oil covered with foofoo dust

Whenever i converted from kluson tuners to heavier grover style the guitar has more sustain but that's not always a plus on Fenders. THese tuners could shift the weight and make the guitar neck heavy which is a distraction. Much of the sound of a Fender guitar comes from the tuners, nut and type of fingerboard. Some fancy pickups can sound too good and mask the natural tone. That Esquire is a juicy piece, ash body. The mods are easily covered by hardware. Looks like it had a Bigsby once from the holes behind the bridge.

Quote
DoomandGloom

Quote
Koen

Quote
mr_dja
Now that we know the "what", I wish we could know the "why". Maybe if DoomandGloom can find a set and run a test we'll see if he notices any differences.

I think they are made of snake oil covered with foofoo dust

Whenever i converted from kluson tuners to heavier grover style the guitar has more sustain but that's not always a plus on Fenders. THese tuners could shift the weight and make the guitar neck heavy which is a distraction. Much of the sound of a Fender guitar comes from the tuners, nut and type of fingerboard. Some fancy pickups can sound too good and mask the natural tone. That Esquire is a juicy piece, ash body. The mods are easily covered by hardware. Looks like it had a Bigsby once from the holes behind the bridge.

so you are saying the sound has more to do with hardware rather than a ash body with a maple neck and a alder body with a rosewood fingerboard on a maple neck .you are not giving enough credit to the TONEWOODS used to build a Fender guitar .now pickups do play a important role in the sonic qualities of a instrument. ditto for very heavy gears on a headstock . but the sound all begins with the tonewoods .

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
DoomandGloom

Quote
Koen

Quote
mr_dja
Now that we know the "what", I wish we could know the "why". Maybe if DoomandGloom can find a set and run a test we'll see if he notices any differences.

I think they are made of snake oil covered with foofoo dust

Whenever i converted from kluson tuners to heavier grover style the guitar has more sustain but that's not always a plus on Fenders. THese tuners could shift the weight and make the guitar neck heavy which is a distraction. Much of the sound of a Fender guitar comes from the tuners, nut and type of fingerboard. Some fancy pickups can sound too good and mask the natural tone. That Esquire is a juicy piece, ash body. The mods are easily covered by hardware. Looks like it had a Bigsby once from the holes behind the bridge.

so you are saying the sound has more to do with hardware rather than a ash body with a maple neck and a alder body with a rosewood fingerboard on a maple neck .you are not giving enough credit to the TONEWOODS used to build a Fender guitar .now pickups do play a important role in the sonic qualities of a instrument. ditto for very heavy gears on a headstock . but the sound all begins with the tonewoods .

Actually DoomandGloom said "much" which implies a significant amount but not necesarilly a majority of the sound. If he had said "more" it would imply a majority of the sound.

I'd agree with what I think is your implication (and won't be surprised if DoomandGloom does as well) that the wood is, in most cases, responsible for MORE of the tonal qualities. However, I too have noticed that swapping out hardware on Fenders can have more of an effect on the tone than similar changes on other brands. Not to meantion the risk of making a neck-heavy instrument - which I despise.

Speaking of wood & Fenders, and such... I caught Teb Benoit's set at the NO Jazz Festival on TV last night. He was playing a Thinline Tele that looked to be about 100 years old (or maybe it just had about 1,000,000 miles on it) that sounded SOOO good. That Wood... Ohhh...

Peace,
Mr DJA

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
DoomandGloom

Quote
Koen

Quote
mr_dja
Now that we know the "what", I wish we could know the "why". Maybe if DoomandGloom can find a set and run a test we'll see if he notices any differences.

I think they are made of snake oil covered with foofoo dust

Whenever i converted from kluson tuners to heavier grover style the guitar has more sustain but that's not always a plus on Fenders. THese tuners could shift the weight and make the guitar neck heavy which is a distraction. Much of the sound of a Fender guitar comes from the tuners, nut and type of fingerboard. Some fancy pickups can sound too good and mask the natural tone. That Esquire is a juicy piece, ash body. The mods are easily covered by hardware. Looks like it had a Bigsby once from the holes behind the bridge.

so you are saying the sound has more to do with hardware rather than a ash body with a maple neck and a alder body with a rosewood fingerboard on a maple neck .you are not giving enough credit to the TONEWOODS used to build a Fender guitar .now pickups do play a important role in the sonic qualities of a instrument. ditto for very heavy gears on a headstock . but the sound all begins with the tonewoods .

Actually DoomandGloom said "much" which implies a significant amount but not necesarilly a majority of the sound. If he had said "more" it would imply a majority of the sound.

I'd agree with what I think is your implication (and won't be surprised if DoomandGloom does as well) that the wood is, in most cases, responsible for MORE of the tonal qualities. However, I too have noticed that swapping out hardware on Fenders can have more of an effect on the tone than similar changes on other brands. Not to meantion the risk of making a neck-heavy instrument - which I despise.

Speaking of wood & Fenders, and such... I caught Teb Benoit's set at the NO Jazz Festival on TV last night. He was playing a Thinline Tele that looked to be about 100 years old (or maybe it just had about 1,000,000 miles on it) that sounded SOOO good. That Wood... Ohhh...

Peace,
Mr DJA

there is nothing better than AGED wood . esp old fender's and gibson's from the fifties .the big problem is cost of vintage fender and gibsons guitars .

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
DoomandGloom

Quote
Koen

Quote
mr_dja
Now that we know the "what", I wish we could know the "why". Maybe if DoomandGloom can find a set and run a test we'll see if he notices any differences.

I think they are made of snake oil covered with foofoo dust

Whenever i converted from kluson tuners to heavier grover style the guitar has more sustain but that's not always a plus on Fenders. THese tuners could shift the weight and make the guitar neck heavy which is a distraction. Much of the sound of a Fender guitar comes from the tuners, nut and type of fingerboard. Some fancy pickups can sound too good and mask the natural tone. That Esquire is a juicy piece, ash body. The mods are easily covered by hardware. Looks like it had a Bigsby once from the holes behind the bridge.

so you are saying the sound has more to do with hardware rather than a ash body with a maple neck and a alder body with a rosewood fingerboard on a maple neck .you are not giving enough credit to the TONEWOODS used to build a Fender guitar .now pickups do play a important role in the sonic qualities of a instrument. ditto for very heavy gears on a headstock . but the sound all begins with the tonewoods .

Actually DoomandGloom said "much" which implies a significant amount but not necesarilly a majority of the sound. If he had said "more" it would imply a majority of the sound.

I'd agree with what I think is your implication (and won't be surprised if DoomandGloom does as well) that the wood is, in most cases, responsible for MORE of the tonal qualities. However, I too have noticed that swapping out hardware on Fenders can have more of an effect on the tone than similar changes on other brands. Not to meantion the risk of making a neck-heavy instrument - which I despise.

Speaking of wood & Fenders, and such... I caught Teb Benoit's set at the NO Jazz Festival on TV last night. He was playing a Thinline Tele that looked to be about 100 years old (or maybe it just had about 1,000,000 miles on it) that sounded SOOO good. That Wood... Ohhh...

Peace,
Mr DJA

there is nothing better than AGED wood . esp old fender's and gibson's from the fifties .the big problem is cost of vintage fender and gibsons guitars .

AMEN. I remember having a Stanley Clarke album as a kid called "If This Bass Could Talk". Very often when I'm in the presence of an old instrument I think of all the songs/sounds it has produced. That's the way I felt last night looking at Tab's guitar. I'd just like to hold it and let it resonate on it's own a bit!

Peace,
Mr DJA

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
DoomandGloom

Quote
Koen

Quote
mr_dja
Now that we know the "what", I wish we could know the "why". Maybe if DoomandGloom can find a set and run a test we'll see if he notices any differences.

I think they are made of snake oil covered with foofoo dust

Whenever i converted from kluson tuners to heavier grover style the guitar has more sustain but that's not always a plus on Fenders. THese tuners could shift the weight and make the guitar neck heavy which is a distraction. Much of the sound of a Fender guitar comes from the tuners, nut and type of fingerboard. Some fancy pickups can sound too good and mask the natural tone. That Esquire is a juicy piece, ash body. The mods are easily covered by hardware. Looks like it had a Bigsby once from the holes behind the bridge.

so you are saying the sound has more to do with hardware rather than a ash body with a maple neck and a alder body with a rosewood fingerboard on a maple neck .you are not giving enough credit to the TONEWOODS used to build a Fender guitar .now pickups do play a important role in the sonic qualities of a instrument. ditto for very heavy gears on a headstock . but the sound all begins with the tonewoods .

Actually DoomandGloom said "much" which implies a significant amount but not necesarilly a majority of the sound. If he had said "more" it would imply a majority of the sound.

I'd agree with what I think is your implication (and won't be surprised if DoomandGloom does as well) that the wood is, in most cases, responsible for MORE of the tonal qualities. However, I too have noticed that swapping out hardware on Fenders can have more of an effect on the tone than similar changes on other brands. Not to meantion the risk of making a neck-heavy instrument - which I despise.

Speaking of wood & Fenders, and such... I caught Teb Benoit's set at the NO Jazz Festival on TV last night. He was playing a Thinline Tele that looked to be about 100 years old (or maybe it just had about 1,000,000 miles on it) that sounded SOOO good. That Wood... Ohhh...

Peace,
Mr DJA

there is nothing better than AGED wood . esp old fender's and gibson's from the fifties .the big problem is cost of vintage fender and gibsons guitars .

AMEN. I remember having a Stanley Clarke album as a kid called "If This Bass Could Talk". Very often when I'm in the presence of an old instrument I think of all the songs/sounds it has produced. That's the way I felt last night looking at Tab's guitar. I'd just like to hold it and let it resonate on it's own a bit!

Peace,
Mr DJA

i am with you a 100% .the way fender and gibson finished guitars with a real thin coat of lacquer back in the fifties also makes a big difference , where guitars with a thin coat of lacquer resonate forever and that is a big reason why you mentioned the thinline tele from way back.

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
DoomandGloom

Quote
Koen

Quote
mr_dja
Now that we know the "what", I wish we could know the "why". Maybe if DoomandGloom can find a set and run a test we'll see if he notices any differences.

I think they are made of snake oil covered with foofoo dust

Whenever i converted from kluson tuners to heavier grover style the guitar has more sustain but that's not always a plus on Fenders. THese tuners could shift the weight and make the guitar neck heavy which is a distraction. Much of the sound of a Fender guitar comes from the tuners, nut and type of fingerboard. Some fancy pickups can sound too good and mask the natural tone. That Esquire is a juicy piece, ash body. The mods are easily covered by hardware. Looks like it had a Bigsby once from the holes behind the bridge.

so you are saying the sound has more to do with hardware rather than a ash body with a maple neck and a alder body with a rosewood fingerboard on a maple neck .you are not giving enough credit to the TONEWOODS used to build a Fender guitar .now pickups do play a important role in the sonic qualities of a instrument. ditto for very heavy gears on a headstock . but the sound all begins with the tonewoods .

Actually DoomandGloom said "much" which implies a significant amount but not necesarilly a majority of the sound. If he had said "more" it would imply a majority of the sound.

I'd agree with what I think is your implication (and won't be surprised if DoomandGloom does as well) that the wood is, in most cases, responsible for MORE of the tonal qualities. However, I too have noticed that swapping out hardware on Fenders can have more of an effect on the tone than similar changes on other brands. Not to meantion the risk of making a neck-heavy instrument - which I despise.

Speaking of wood & Fenders, and such... I caught Teb Benoit's set at the NO Jazz Festival on TV last night. He was playing a Thinline Tele that looked to be about 100 years old (or maybe it just had about 1,000,000 miles on it) that sounded SOOO good. That Wood... Ohhh...

Peace,
Mr DJA

there is nothing better than AGED wood . esp old fender's and gibson's from the fifties .the big problem is cost of vintage fender and gibsons guitars .

AMEN. I remember having a Stanley Clarke album as a kid called "If This Bass Could Talk". Very often when I'm in the presence of an old instrument I think of all the songs/sounds it has produced. That's the way I felt last night looking at Tab's guitar. I'd just like to hold it and let it resonate on it's own a bit!

Peace,
Mr DJA

i am with you a 100% .the way fender and gibson finished guitars with a real thin coat of lacquer back in the fifties also makes a big difference , where guitars with a thin coat of lacquer resonate forever and that is a big reason why you mentioned the thinline tele from way back.

Of course I do not discount the resonance of the body and type of wood I guess I just assumed that as a given. My point is upgrading the tuners or the bridge can bring a calculated result of more sustain and fatter tone but that result can be counter productive. Great vintage guitars rattle from the tail piece to the tuners. If you eliminate this synchronisity because it's noticed as a flaw when played unamplified you may be doing your amplified tone some harm. As far as finish, a thin coat seems to be a no brainer but Keith's Custom's are black. I would guess neither is "better" just depends. For gigs I have held onto a few faded series cheaper Gibsons so I guess I prefer the wood to breath but a Black Les Paul Custom or White SG still sound nice to me as well. My 58 Tele is much the same as this one photoed without the routs but refinished natural with a thin coat.

Quote
DoomandGloom

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
DoomandGloom

Quote
Koen

Quote
mr_dja
Now that we know the "what", I wish we could know the "why". Maybe if DoomandGloom can find a set and run a test we'll see if he notices any differences.

I think they are made of snake oil covered with foofoo dust

Whenever i converted from kluson tuners to heavier grover style the guitar has more sustain but that's not always a plus on Fenders. THese tuners could shift the weight and make the guitar neck heavy which is a distraction. Much of the sound of a Fender guitar comes from the tuners, nut and type of fingerboard. Some fancy pickups can sound too good and mask the natural tone. That Esquire is a juicy piece, ash body. The mods are easily covered by hardware. Looks like it had a Bigsby once from the holes behind the bridge.

so you are saying the sound has more to do with hardware rather than a ash body with a maple neck and a alder body with a rosewood fingerboard on a maple neck .you are not giving enough credit to the TONEWOODS used to build a Fender guitar .now pickups do play a important role in the sonic qualities of a instrument. ditto for very heavy gears on a headstock . but the sound all begins with the tonewoods .

Actually DoomandGloom said "much" which implies a significant amount but not necesarilly a majority of the sound. If he had said "more" it would imply a majority of the sound.

I'd agree with what I think is your implication (and won't be surprised if DoomandGloom does as well) that the wood is, in most cases, responsible for MORE of the tonal qualities. However, I too have noticed that swapping out hardware on Fenders can have more of an effect on the tone than similar changes on other brands. Not to meantion the risk of making a neck-heavy instrument - which I despise.

Speaking of wood & Fenders, and such... I caught Teb Benoit's set at the NO Jazz Festival on TV last night. He was playing a Thinline Tele that looked to be about 100 years old (or maybe it just had about 1,000,000 miles on it) that sounded SOOO good. That Wood... Ohhh...

Peace,
Mr DJA

there is nothing better than AGED wood . esp old fender's and gibson's from the fifties .the big problem is cost of vintage fender and gibsons guitars .

AMEN. I remember having a Stanley Clarke album as a kid called "If This Bass Could Talk". Very often when I'm in the presence of an old instrument I think of all the songs/sounds it has produced. That's the way I felt last night looking at Tab's guitar. I'd just like to hold it and let it resonate on it's own a bit!

Peace,
Mr DJA

i am with you a 100% .the way fender and gibson finished guitars with a real thin coat of lacquer back in the fifties also makes a big difference , where guitars with a thin coat of lacquer resonate forever and that is a big reason why you mentioned the thinline tele from way back.

Of course I do not discount the resonance of the body and type of wood I guess I just assumed that as a given. My point is upgrading the tuners or the bridge can bring a calculated result of more sustain and fatter tone but that result can be counter productive. Great vintage guitars rattle from the tail piece to the tuners. If you eliminate this synchronisity because it's noticed as a flaw when played unamplified you may be doing your amplified tone some harm. As far as finish, a thin coat seems to be a no brainer but Keith's Custom's are black. I would guess neither is "better" just depends. For gigs I have held onto a few faded series cheaper Gibsons so I guess I prefer the wood to breath but a Black Les Paul Custom or White SG still sound nice to me as well. My 58 Tele is much the same as this one photoed without the routs but refinished natural with a thin coat.

can you tell me more about "few faded series cheaper gibsons " please?

Quote
DoomandGloom
That Esquire is a juicy piece, ash body. The mods are easily covered by hardware. Looks like it had a Bigsby once from the holes behind the bridge.

It looks like it was once fitted with some kind of locking trem, judging by the holes in the headstock. I'll post some more pics soon (hopefully...) in the IORRians Guitars thread.

I have a brown SG Faded which is the best all around SG I've ever had. Mine has a fat 50's style neck while most I've played have thin necks. The bass pickup sounds like a Les Paul or Jazz guitar. Best of all it has even tone in all pickup positions so it's never a distraction. Right now it has a Pearly Gates Duncan in the bridge and an old T Top Gibson in the neck but it sounded fine with the stock 490's I changed them mainly because without covers the pickups felt clumsy to my pick hand. I also have a black faded Melody Maker with a wraparound tailpiece bridge, although it is a $300 guitar it is one of the best Gibson's I've ever had and I knew it from the first time I played it. Perfectly in tune without an adjustable bridge, Gibsons sometime are a miracle. This is a single pickup and a tech installed a duncan full size custom/custom humbucker. I split the coil to single with a push pull pot. He also took the jack off the front and put it on the edge like a Les Paul or Tele. It's still worth only 300 bucks but a killer guitar. People always ask me about it when I use it, more so than fancy stuff it seems.. Lastly I have a faded Special SL, which has factory Humbuckers. It is TV color but the jury is still out on this one for me as it's a newer acquisition. It also has a fat neck and stock 490's, these are selling used for 550, the SG's sell for less and I think are better but you must buy them in person as there are many that are not very good. Never buy a cheap guitar thinking you can make it better, it should be good from the start or move to the next. It's different from vintage stuff where the upside is greater if you get it happening.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-02 20:12 by DoomandGloom.

DoomandGloom -> Are the "faded series" guitars you're referring to part of the series that Gibson released in about 2003 to compete with Fender's Hwy-1 series? A couple pictures on the web make me think possibly so. I got a LP Jr. from that series back in '03 that I loved from the moment I took it out of the case. Love the fact that it's aging well and singing like a bird whenever I get to play it.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Quote
mr_dja
DoomandGloom -> Are the "faded series" guitars you're referring to part of the series that Gibson released in about 2003 to compete with Fender's Hwy-1 series? A couple pictures on the web make me think possibly so. I got a LP Jr. from that series back in '03 that I loved from the moment I took it out of the case. Love the fact that it's aging well and singing like a bird whenever I get to play it.

Peace,
Mr DJA

yes exactly... the early ones were good, apparently which model you get doesn't matter, finding a good one of any model is the key. They are out there but the big variation in quality makes them rougher to buy on EBAY or mail order but yes I have 2 that are very lively, hold tune and don't choke. By coincidence I also have a Highway Strat HSS with a Dimarzio Dual Sound and Duncan single coils. It's way ahead of a Mexi but needed many painful hours of setup and break in time. It's good not great but my band loves the way it sounds so I use it. It's crazy for me to carry vintage stuff as we stop on the road to eat and shop, anything can happen. The oldest guitar I gig with is a Black 70's Gibson ES 347 , it looks a little like Keith's ES 355 and is addicting to play.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-02 22:03 by DoomandGloom.

Quote
DoomandGloom

Quote
mr_dja
DoomandGloom -> Are the "faded series" guitars you're referring to part of the series that Gibson released in about 2003 to compete with Fender's Hwy-1 series? A couple pictures on the web make me think possibly so. I got a LP Jr. from that series back in '03 that I loved from the moment I took it out of the case. Love the fact that it's aging well and singing like a bird whenever I get to play it.

Peace,
Mr DJA

yes exactly... the early ones were good, apparently which model you get doesn't matter, finding a good one of any model is the key. They are out there but the big variation in quality makes them rougher to buy on EBAY or mail order but yes I have 2 that are very lively, hold tune and don't choke. By coincidence I also have a Highway Strat HSS with a Dimarzio Dual Sound and Duncan single coils. It's way ahead of a Mexi but needed many painful hours of setup and break in time. It's good not great but my band loves the way it sounds so I use it. It's crazy for me to carry vintage stuff as we stop on the road to eat and shop, anything can happen. The oldest guitar I gig with is a Black 70's Gibson ES 347 , it looks a little like Keith's ES 355 and is addicting to play.

Apparently I got lucky (Yea Me!)! I got mine early as it was an inexpensive way to get a Gibson with a Made in USA stamp (also wanted a Jr w/ P-90s). Also had the fortune to be working for a fender dealer when the Hwy-1 series came out so I could pick and choose which one I wanted from the dozzen he had in stock (ended up with a blonde strat, rosewood fretboard).

I totally understand what you mean about not carrying the expensive/vintage stuff to gigs. I don't have much that would classify as "vintage" but my Jazz Bass Deluxe tends to stay home & away from the drunks while the Washburn hangs around my neck night after night. While I feel badly that the Jazz doesn't get to sing in public as often as I'd like, I couldn't begin to replace it as easily as I could the Washburn.

Peace,
Mr DJA