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I remember reading an interview quite awhile ago and someone said (it may have been his wife Valerie) that he was very surprised at the interest his fans had in him. Hard to believe! Dismissive is the appropriate term, indeed. Whatever the truth is, the sad thing was that he was promised songwriting credit and, of course, that never happened except on Ventilator Blues. He carried alot of anger for too long regarding that; made him very depressed. It's interesting that you mentioned the group Suede. In the new Simon Pegg movie, "The World's End", the song Too Young (think that's the name of it), is featured. It's pretty good.
Taylor and I have something in common.
You're always the comedian!!
I believe neither of you.
Ah, "can't remember"! I rest my case.
For Stones connaisseurs only. For the elite fans, not the unwashed masses.
The Jones world is full of some really @#$%& up people though. I got banned from some Jones sites. They don't like facts which mess with their beliefs. They'll accept Jones violence against women and his cruel, cold hearted ways towards his own kids, but not facts put forth in a rude manner. That's interesting.
Tayloritism seems relativley straight forward and he's generally more easily recognisable on recordings.
Hmm, there goes my years of posts saying he wasn't that distinctive.
Is this part of the reason why Brian Jones isn't anything like as big a topic here as Taylor is? I've always found that rather surprising, staunch Taylorite though I am. If you were to try coming to terms with Stones fandom purely by reading the IORR forums you'd come away with the impression that Mick Taylor casts an almighty shadow over every aspect of the band's past and present. This clearly isn't the case, otherwise Jagger would have cottoned onto the commercial viability of bringing him back in some capacity years ago. Jones, by contrast, still has lots of posthumous name-recognition value amongst the general public (most of whom wouldn't have a clue who Mick Taylor is or was). So what's the deal with his fans? Do they just hang out elsewhere?
This is a very interesting observation, and that kind of thing I have also tried to figure out. The point seems to be that for us who have been brought up in a world where rock and roll and rock culture, rock stars and things like that are a part of furniture, it is sometimes difficult to understand the point of view of those pioneer generations who actually didn't have that kind of point of reference at all, and anything they did was a step to unknown. People like Jagger and Dylan created the very world they mastered, and that they would have such an incredible career, was surely something they couldn't even have imagined in their formative years. For them I guess having a career of two years or something in the show business was probably the most they could have imagined. And the idea that they could have something with lasting significance would surely have make them laugh in the early days. In teh long run, I think that affects how they see their career - they really can't take so seriously as many of their followers, because more or less they see themselves just lucky ones - being in a right place in the right time, and suddenly being treated by the world of some kind of heroes of their time. There simply were so many happy co-incidences, how them and the world around them changed without any prior plan, that you simply can't take that too seriously.
If you think from where these people came from, even that is so transcendent to today's point of view. It is very different being inspired to make music if your hero is Woody Guthrie, Robert Johnson or Muddy Waters than Bob Dylan, Mick Jagger or Keith Richards. From Guthrie or Waters there is a helluva road to go if one tries to make a stance in a show business, but not at all if your idol and example is Dylan or Jagger, since there is an alraedy existing place for you in the show business and pop culture. You just follow, if you are good enough, their example and path.
The same holds for song-writing and credition policy - a kind of game these people learned by doing. The practises we now take for granted weren't for them available at all. A young Dylan thought that the point in song-writing is to make lyrics - the melodies are not that important, and it was perfectly alright to borrow existing melodies to back up your lyrics. Without the example of Lennon-McCartney, Jagger and Richards would probably never thought themselves being any 'song-writers', and they, famously, with a force were pushed into that. Even though Mick and Keith learned to write in a classical Tin Pan Alley way - you just made lyrics with a melody backed up with key chords, the way they learned to write as they matured was more that of "singer, not the song" approach. The whole band contributed to the song, and the boundaries between arrangement and composing became vague. Once again, there was no prior example for them to follow - they pretty much created the way how a rock band as a whole - something that didn't even exist before as a creative force - makes music. But they never changed their habit of crediting everything under "Jagger-Richards" label. They surely were the ones most responsible for the songs, but the monopoly they had for Rolling Stones credition policy was more that of certain habit and power they had achieved in the band by then than actually looking what happened in the process of making songs. The fate of the rest was just to check if their name accidently would appear on song creditions when the record was released. Mostly it didn't. But there was nothing they could do about it.
So it is not a wonder why this learned custom of credition policy have caused some criticism along the years. Most of them concerns the Brian Jones and Mick Taylor years - the years when those practises were formed, and the band learned to write as a unit. Sometimes - especially as far Bill Wyman is concerned - acknowledging the possibility of perhaps earning a credit, becomes years afterwards - that is, at the time when the songs actually were made, there was no need to even question the gesture, since the whole thing was still in the stage of formation - not having prior examples in sight. In many cases the issue is like Bellajane mentioned the vague boundary between, say, "working your guitar part" and "contributing enough to deserve a writing credit". I don't think there is a 'right' line to be drawn there, but only that of convention (based on old habits and customs). Some people draw the line more closer to "closed shop" of traditional Tin Pan Alley view of a song structure, and some people recognize the melodic and other ideas more substantive to the song. As far as Rolling Stones recordings go, that decision is solely in the hands of Mick and Keith, and all we can do is to trust their judgment.
I think the biggest sin, to bring my initial point home, in judging or interpreting the events of the past is that of anachronism - using the criteria and customs we are now used to as a sort of universal truth in these matters (what we think, say, composing a song means). No, especially when we are talking about these pioneers and their actions in the past we need to acknowledge the times they have lived in, and gone through. It is an issue of changing human practises. They pretty much created and mastered these practices. Without having any external check point to consult.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 09:58 by Doxa.
Yeah, I see the same funny phenomenon. Mick Taylor is almost like a secret hero of hardcore Rolling Stones fans, but a rather unknown figure to anyone else, excluded some guitar nerds of the world. After Mick and Keith he is no doubt the most discussed Stone here at IORR. But almost anyone who knows something about the history of rock and roll, knows Brian Jones (if anything else but the Rolling Stone who went to pool), but not much love or even interest for him among diehard Rolling Stones fans. Like His Majesty mentioned, Taylorites seem to get along rather well with the main stream Rolling Stones fans, but Brian Jones fans seem to go exile...
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 10:27 by Doxa.
No shit man!
- Doxa
Wow!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 13:04 by His Majesty.
Most Taylorians are also fan of Brian's input in the Stones music. At least I am and I totally agree here with LuxuryS. I always have mixed feelings when watching Hyde Park summer 69. In fact it's a sad event.
No way, some people are quite glad he went.
Then there's the people that see his era as merely a rehearsal for 1968 - 1974.
Read the comments on YouTube regarding songs Taylor is on. Then you see many posts about Taylor from people who possibly never heard of Iorr anyway. I think Taylor is well known amongst younger Stones fans who are interested in the music but weren't there when it actually happened. Like you for instance. Remember the crowd reaction last tour when Taylor did Sway and Knocking?
An accurate assessment of the incomparable Mick Taylor. I like more of MT's classic lines than Eric Claptons whose ultimate (for me) was the live version Cream's crossroads. Also the wah wah guitars on White Room and Ulysses. Mick Taylor plays a biting wah wah on a few Stones cuts.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 17:43 by triceratops.
I think the key line is "never had a blind respect for the band". With that kind of attitude he was so distinguished and musically independent, trusting rightfully to his own skills and intuitions - and was able to give so much for the band, and helped them to reinvent their sound. Of course he would clash with Keith occasionally - but we listeners could just enjoy the results...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 18:16 by Doxa.
+1. I love Taylor's playing and his musicianship (and not just in the context of the Stones: I was actually into his Bluesbreakers stuff beforehand) but Jones's best moments are timeless. The slide part on No Expectations is elegance and resonance epitomised, in a league of its own.
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Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
Bellajane
()
Date: January 22, 2014 17:12
Quote
LieBQuote
Bellajane
Where do you draw the line between working out your (guitar) part and contributing enough to deserve songwriting credit?
Be careful with that can of worms here.
Actually, I find it quite common among famous old rockers of Taylor's generation to be vague, inconsistent, aloof and generally dismissive about their own history and/or importance. Bob Dylan being a well-known example. Even Paul McCartney, who, while very friendly and courteous, can brush away things sometimes. I guess it's the nature of bohemian rock 'n' roll -- you're not supposed to care about your own history too much, that's for geeks like us (and Bill Wyman).
I saw a Swedish documentary about the music of the 1990s recently, and I noticed that many of the (former) stars who were being interviewed in the show were far more mindful about their own history, discography and so on, than ol' rockers like Jagger and Dylan. Now I'm talking about people like Suede, Stereo MCs, Blur, Primal Scream, Anything But The Girl, etc. It was almost like some kind of cultural gap. Perhaps it was coincidence. Probably age had something to do with it. But it made for enjoyable viewing. Being a geeky hard core fan of rock stars living on borrowed time can be a little frustrating at times.
I remember reading an interview quite awhile ago and someone said (it may have been his wife Valerie) that he was very surprised at the interest his fans had in him. Hard to believe! Dismissive is the appropriate term, indeed. Whatever the truth is, the sad thing was that he was promised songwriting credit and, of course, that never happened except on Ventilator Blues. He carried alot of anger for too long regarding that; made him very depressed. It's interesting that you mentioned the group Suede. In the new Simon Pegg movie, "The World's End", the song Too Young (think that's the name of it), is featured. It's pretty good.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: January 22, 2014 20:15
Quote
DandelionPowderman
IF he said it that way, something people with more knowledge than me doubt as well...
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 22, 2014 21:05
Quote
Bellajane
I remember reading an interview quite awhile ago and someone said (it may have been his wife Valerie) that he was very surprised at the interest his fans had in him.
Taylor and I have something in common.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
Bellajane
()
Date: January 22, 2014 21:07
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Bellajane
I remember reading an interview quite awhile ago and someone said (it may have been his wife Valerie) that he was very surprised at the interest his fans had in him.
Taylor and I have something in common.
You're always the comedian!!
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 22, 2014 21:29
Quote
Bellajane
You're always the comedian!!
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: January 22, 2014 21:30
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Bellajane
I remember reading an interview quite awhile ago and someone said (it may have been his wife Valerie) that he was very surprised at the interest his fans had in him.
Taylor and I have something in common.
I believe neither of you.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
Bellajane
()
Date: January 22, 2014 22:03
Well, I'm not making it up. I know I read that...possibly on the liner notes of his first album. Can't remember.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: January 22, 2014 22:20
Quote
Bellajane
Well, I'm not making it up. I know I read that...possibly on the liner notes of his first album. Can't remember.
Ah, "can't remember"! I rest my case.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 22, 2014 22:24
I was surprised by the taylortite thing here when I joined.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 23, 2014 00:02
The Taylor cult is the nitty gritty of fanhood
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
triceratops
()
Date: January 23, 2014 01:18
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The Taylor cult is the nitty gritty of fanhood
For Stones connaisseurs only. For the elite fans, not the unwashed masses.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 23, 2014 01:35
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The Taylor cult is the nitty gritty of fanhood
The Jones world is full of some really @#$%& up people though. I got banned from some Jones sites. They don't like facts which mess with their beliefs. They'll accept Jones violence against women and his cruel, cold hearted ways towards his own kids, but not facts put forth in a rude manner. That's interesting.
Tayloritism seems relativley straight forward and he's generally more easily recognisable on recordings.
Hmm, there goes my years of posts saying he wasn't that distinctive.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
Stoneburst
()
Date: January 23, 2014 03:38
Quote
His Majesty
The Jones world is full of some really @#$%& up people though. I got banned from some Jones sites. They don't like facts which mess with their beliefs. They'll accept Jones violence against women and his cruel, cold hearted ways towards his own kids, but not facts put forth in a rude manner. That's interesting.
Is this part of the reason why Brian Jones isn't anything like as big a topic here as Taylor is? I've always found that rather surprising, staunch Taylorite though I am. If you were to try coming to terms with Stones fandom purely by reading the IORR forums you'd come away with the impression that Mick Taylor casts an almighty shadow over every aspect of the band's past and present. This clearly isn't the case, otherwise Jagger would have cottoned onto the commercial viability of bringing him back in some capacity years ago. Jones, by contrast, still has lots of posthumous name-recognition value amongst the general public (most of whom wouldn't have a clue who Mick Taylor is or was). So what's the deal with his fans? Do they just hang out elsewhere?
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 23, 2014 05:15
Essentially Jones just has too much bullshit associated with him, so it's hard to just talk about him, for example, as a slide guitarist without people bringing in all the other stuff, true or otherwise. So, a lot of his fans, sane and otherwise, just go form their own Jones specific sites, forums etc.
I hate the term some of them use, but IORR is not deemed as being "Brian friendly". Barf.
The best Jones focused forum ended awhile back, in part I think due to all the bullshit and weirdness of fans.
Taylors place and standing is very much just about the music. His playing is nearly always recognisable so there's not that much confusion about what he played etc etc. The worst thing he ever did to the stones was leave them.
Ronnie is just ronnie eh?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 05:32 by His Majesty.
I hate the term some of them use, but IORR is not deemed as being "Brian friendly". Barf.
The best Jones focused forum ended awhile back, in part I think due to all the bullshit and weirdness of fans.
Taylors place and standing is very much just about the music. His playing is nearly always recognisable so there's not that much confusion about what he played etc etc. The worst thing he ever did to the stones was leave them.
Ronnie is just ronnie eh?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 05:32 by His Majesty.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 23, 2014 09:47
Quote
LieBQuote
Bellajane
Where do you draw the line between working out your (guitar) part and contributing enough to deserve songwriting credit?
Be careful with that can of worms here.
Actually, I find it quite common among famous old rockers of Taylor's generation to be vague, inconsistent, aloof and generally dismissive about their own history and/or importance. Bob Dylan being a well-known example. Even Paul McCartney, who, while very friendly and courteous, can brush away things sometimes. I guess it's the nature of bohemian rock 'n' roll -- you're not supposed to care about your own history too much, that's for geeks like us (and Bill Wyman).
I saw a Swedish documentary about the music of the 1990s recently, and I noticed that many of the (former) stars who were being interviewed in the show were far more mindful about their own history, discography and so on, than ol' rockers like Jagger and Dylan. Now I'm talking about people like Suede, Stereo MCs, Blur, Primal Scream, Anything But The Girl, etc. It was almost like some kind of cultural gap. Perhaps it was coincidence. Probably age had something to do with it. But it made for enjoyable viewing. Being a geeky hard core fan of rock stars living on borrowed time can be a little frustrating at times.
This is a very interesting observation, and that kind of thing I have also tried to figure out. The point seems to be that for us who have been brought up in a world where rock and roll and rock culture, rock stars and things like that are a part of furniture, it is sometimes difficult to understand the point of view of those pioneer generations who actually didn't have that kind of point of reference at all, and anything they did was a step to unknown. People like Jagger and Dylan created the very world they mastered, and that they would have such an incredible career, was surely something they couldn't even have imagined in their formative years. For them I guess having a career of two years or something in the show business was probably the most they could have imagined. And the idea that they could have something with lasting significance would surely have make them laugh in the early days. In teh long run, I think that affects how they see their career - they really can't take so seriously as many of their followers, because more or less they see themselves just lucky ones - being in a right place in the right time, and suddenly being treated by the world of some kind of heroes of their time. There simply were so many happy co-incidences, how them and the world around them changed without any prior plan, that you simply can't take that too seriously.
If you think from where these people came from, even that is so transcendent to today's point of view. It is very different being inspired to make music if your hero is Woody Guthrie, Robert Johnson or Muddy Waters than Bob Dylan, Mick Jagger or Keith Richards. From Guthrie or Waters there is a helluva road to go if one tries to make a stance in a show business, but not at all if your idol and example is Dylan or Jagger, since there is an alraedy existing place for you in the show business and pop culture. You just follow, if you are good enough, their example and path.
The same holds for song-writing and credition policy - a kind of game these people learned by doing. The practises we now take for granted weren't for them available at all. A young Dylan thought that the point in song-writing is to make lyrics - the melodies are not that important, and it was perfectly alright to borrow existing melodies to back up your lyrics. Without the example of Lennon-McCartney, Jagger and Richards would probably never thought themselves being any 'song-writers', and they, famously, with a force were pushed into that. Even though Mick and Keith learned to write in a classical Tin Pan Alley way - you just made lyrics with a melody backed up with key chords, the way they learned to write as they matured was more that of "singer, not the song" approach. The whole band contributed to the song, and the boundaries between arrangement and composing became vague. Once again, there was no prior example for them to follow - they pretty much created the way how a rock band as a whole - something that didn't even exist before as a creative force - makes music. But they never changed their habit of crediting everything under "Jagger-Richards" label. They surely were the ones most responsible for the songs, but the monopoly they had for Rolling Stones credition policy was more that of certain habit and power they had achieved in the band by then than actually looking what happened in the process of making songs. The fate of the rest was just to check if their name accidently would appear on song creditions when the record was released. Mostly it didn't. But there was nothing they could do about it.
So it is not a wonder why this learned custom of credition policy have caused some criticism along the years. Most of them concerns the Brian Jones and Mick Taylor years - the years when those practises were formed, and the band learned to write as a unit. Sometimes - especially as far Bill Wyman is concerned - acknowledging the possibility of perhaps earning a credit, becomes years afterwards - that is, at the time when the songs actually were made, there was no need to even question the gesture, since the whole thing was still in the stage of formation - not having prior examples in sight. In many cases the issue is like Bellajane mentioned the vague boundary between, say, "working your guitar part" and "contributing enough to deserve a writing credit". I don't think there is a 'right' line to be drawn there, but only that of convention (based on old habits and customs). Some people draw the line more closer to "closed shop" of traditional Tin Pan Alley view of a song structure, and some people recognize the melodic and other ideas more substantive to the song. As far as Rolling Stones recordings go, that decision is solely in the hands of Mick and Keith, and all we can do is to trust their judgment.
I think the biggest sin, to bring my initial point home, in judging or interpreting the events of the past is that of anachronism - using the criteria and customs we are now used to as a sort of universal truth in these matters (what we think, say, composing a song means). No, especially when we are talking about these pioneers and their actions in the past we need to acknowledge the times they have lived in, and gone through. It is an issue of changing human practises. They pretty much created and mastered these practices. Without having any external check point to consult.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 09:58 by Doxa.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 23, 2014 10:18
Quote
StoneburstQuote
His Majesty
The Jones world is full of some really @#$%& up people though. I got banned from some Jones sites. They don't like facts which mess with their beliefs. They'll accept Jones violence against women and his cruel, cold hearted ways towards his own kids, but not facts put forth in a rude manner. That's interesting.
Is this part of the reason why Brian Jones isn't anything like as big a topic here as Taylor is? I've always found that rather surprising, staunch Taylorite though I am. If you were to try coming to terms with Stones fandom purely by reading the IORR forums you'd come away with the impression that Mick Taylor casts an almighty shadow over every aspect of the band's past and present. This clearly isn't the case, otherwise Jagger would have cottoned onto the commercial viability of bringing him back in some capacity years ago. Jones, by contrast, still has lots of posthumous name-recognition value amongst the general public (most of whom wouldn't have a clue who Mick Taylor is or was). So what's the deal with his fans? Do they just hang out elsewhere?
Yeah, I see the same funny phenomenon. Mick Taylor is almost like a secret hero of hardcore Rolling Stones fans, but a rather unknown figure to anyone else, excluded some guitar nerds of the world. After Mick and Keith he is no doubt the most discussed Stone here at IORR. But almost anyone who knows something about the history of rock and roll, knows Brian Jones (if anything else but the Rolling Stone who went to pool), but not much love or even interest for him among diehard Rolling Stones fans. Like His Majesty mentioned, Taylorites seem to get along rather well with the main stream Rolling Stones fans, but Brian Jones fans seem to go exile...
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 10:27 by Doxa.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: January 23, 2014 12:24
It's not such a funny phenomenon I think. If Brian was still alive he would surely get a lot more attention on this or any music related site. And count in that Brian wasn't a innovating guitar hero like Jimi Hendrix, something that ensures immortal fame. That said, to me Brian was a great musician and founder of the greatest R&R band in the world. I put flowers on his grave and remained silent for a couple of minutes. Yes Doxa, even hardcore Taylorites have feelings and know life can be cruel sometimes.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 23, 2014 12:41
Quote
LuxuryStones
Yes Doxa, even hardcore Taylorites have feelings and know life can be cruel sometimes.
No shit man!
- Doxa
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: January 23, 2014 12:56
Quote
DoxaQuote
LuxuryStones
Yes Doxa, even hardcore Taylorites have feelings and know life can be cruel sometimes.
No shit man!
- Doxa
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 23, 2014 13:01
Quote
LuxuryStones
I put flowers on his grave and remained silent for a couple of minutes.
Wow!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 13:04 by His Majesty.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
Bellajane
()
Date: January 23, 2014 15:22
Quote
kleermakerQuote
Bellajane
Well, I'm not making it up. I know I read that...possibly on the liner notes of his first album. Can't remember.
Ah, "can't remember"! I rest my case.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: January 23, 2014 16:33
Quote
LuxuryStones
It's not such a funny phenomenon I think. If Brian was still alive he would surely get a lot more attention on this or any music related site. And count in that Brian wasn't a innovating guitar hero like Jimi Hendrix, something that ensures immortal fame. That said, to me Brian was a great musician and founder of the greatest R&R band in the world. I put flowers on his grave and remained silent for a couple of minutes. Yes Doxa, even hardcore Taylorites have feelings and know life can be cruel sometimes.
Most Taylorians are also fan of Brian's input in the Stones music. At least I am and I totally agree here with LuxuryS. I always have mixed feelings when watching Hyde Park summer 69. In fact it's a sad event.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 23, 2014 17:08
I think everybody loves Brian's input
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 23, 2014 17:20
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think everybody loves Brian's input
No way, some people are quite glad he went.
Then there's the people that see his era as merely a rehearsal for 1968 - 1974.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: January 23, 2014 17:25
Quote
Doxa
Yeah, I see the same funny phenomenon. Mick Taylor is almost like a secret hero of hardcore Rolling Stones fans, but a rather unknown figure to anyone else, excluded some guitar nerds of the world. After Mick and Keith he is no doubt the most discussed Stone here at IORR. But almost anyone who knows something about the history of rock and roll, knows Brian Jones (if anything else but the Rolling Stone who went to pool), but not much love or even interest for him among diehard Rolling Stones fans. Like His Majesty mentioned, Taylorites seem to get along rather well with the main stream Rolling Stones fans, but Brian Jones fans seem to go exile...
- Doxa
Read the comments on YouTube regarding songs Taylor is on. Then you see many posts about Taylor from people who possibly never heard of Iorr anyway. I think Taylor is well known amongst younger Stones fans who are interested in the music but weren't there when it actually happened. Like you for instance.
Remember the crowd reaction last tour when Taylor did Sway and Knocking?Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: January 23, 2014 17:31
Ya Ya's put Mick Taylor in an elite place among guitarists. Hi artistic and irreverent interpretations of already known songs is unequalled. Imagine if a new guitarist had joined Tull and changed the hooks and melody lines of the guitar parts... Impossible but Taylor did just that, partially because he never had blind respect for the band. As Nicky Hopkins he was already an established British musician and saw Mick and Keith as songwriters who could barely execute their own material... The era that Taylor joined the band was the height of blues guitar gunslinging, Taylor as one of the best can not be dismissed as Jones often is with "well that's Keith." His touch and sound are instantly recognizable, like Dickey Betts or Peter Frampton, you always know when it's Taylor. On the other side, also like Nicky, Mick T. was not a rugged touring guy like the rest of the group. In his golden era he used hard drugs to maintain composure, we saw in 50+ Taylor with less stage savvy than the rest of the players. The Mick I saw playing with Woody at The Cutting Room was in his comfort zone at the night club level...
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
triceratops
()
Date: January 23, 2014 17:42
Quote
DoomandGloom
Ya Ya's put Mick Taylor in an elite place among guitarists. Hi artistic and irreverent interpretations of already known songs is unequalled. Imagine if a new guitarist had joined Tull and changed the hooks and melody lines of the guitar parts... Impossible but Taylor did just that, partially because he never had blind respect for the band. As Nicky Hopkins he was already an established British musician and saw Mick and Keith as songwriters who could barely execute their own material... The era that Taylor joined the band was the height of blues guitar gunslinging, Taylor as one of the best can not be dismissed as Jones often is with "well that's Keith." His touch and sound are instantly recognizable, like Dickey Betts or Peter Frampton, you always know when it's Taylor. On the other side, also like Nicky, Mick T. was not a rugged touring guy like the rest of the group. In his golden era he used hard drugs to maintain composure, we saw in 50+ Taylor with less stage savvy than the rest of the players. The Mick I saw playing with Woody at The Cutting Room was in his comfort zone at the night club level...
An accurate assessment of the incomparable Mick Taylor. I like more of MT's classic lines than Eric Claptons whose ultimate (for me) was the live version Cream's crossroads. Also the wah wah guitars on White Room and Ulysses. Mick Taylor plays a biting wah wah on a few Stones cuts.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 17:43 by triceratops.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 23, 2014 17:57
See what I mean.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 23, 2014 18:12
Quote
DoomandGloom
Ya Ya's put Mick Taylor in an elite place among guitarists. Hi artistic and irreverent interpretations of already known songs is unequalled. Imagine if a new guitarist had joined Tull and changed the hooks and melody lines of the guitar parts... Impossible but Taylor did just that, partially because he never had blind respect for the band. As Nicky Hopkins he was already an established British musician and saw Mick and Keith as songwriters who could barely execute their own material... The era that Taylor joined the band was the height of blues guitar gunslinging, Taylor as one of the best can not be dismissed as Jones often is with "well that's Keith." His touch and sound are instantly recognizable, like Dickey Betts or Peter Frampton, you always know when it's Taylor. On the other side, also like Nicky, Mick T. was not a rugged touring guy like the rest of the group. In his golden era he used hard drugs to maintain composure, we saw in 50+ Taylor with less stage savvy than the rest of the players. The Mick I saw playing with Woody at The Cutting Room was in his comfort zone at the night club level...
I think the key line is "never had a blind respect for the band". With that kind of attitude he was so distinguished and musically independent, trusting rightfully to his own skills and intuitions - and was able to give so much for the band, and helped them to reinvent their sound. Of course he would clash with Keith occasionally - but we listeners could just enjoy the results...- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-23 18:16 by Doxa.
Re: Mick Taylor - "I wrote all the ballads"
Posted by:
Stoneburst
()
Date: January 23, 2014 18:13
Quote
kleermaker
Most Taylorians are also fan of Brian's input in the Stones music. At least I am and I totally agree here with LuxuryS. I always have mixed feelings when watching Hyde Park summer 69. In fact it's a sad event.
+1. I love Taylor's playing and his musicianship (and not just in the context of the Stones: I was actually into his Bluesbreakers stuff beforehand) but Jones's best moments are timeless. The slide part on No Expectations is elegance and resonance epitomised, in a league of its own.
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