Anyway, I actually think they could easily do today a TATTOO YOU style album of their unreleased material, starting from, say, VOODOO LOUNGE sessions, and there wouldn't be any problem, since they haven't artistically changed one bit from those days. It would sound as original and update - or retro - as VOODOO LOUNGE, BRIDGES TO BABYLON or A BIGGER BANG does.

The other issue is why bother - most likely there wouldn't be TATTOO YOU like miracle to be born (the material that actually made the albums during these years wasn't that spectacular, so what about the left-overs...), and like Ron Wood has remarked some years ago, it is easier from them to start from a scratch than continue once rejected project (which also says something of the material in question - they can autopilot-like do new tunes if they feel like to, and the old ideas probably weren't that inspiring or important they would go back to them).

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-21 06:56 by Doxa.

I have no desire to hear any more material from their last three albums, or whatever that new crap was they came up for Licks.

Quote
24FPS
I have no desire to hear any more material from their last three albums, or whatever that new crap was they came up for Licks.

From the base on the left-overs I've heard - or, for example, the stuff they release as single B-sides. etc. - and then comparing them to the material they've decided to release on albums, I would suggest that the quality of such a 'Tattoo You' type album wouldn't be much inferior to those three recent studio albums. To my taste their over-all standard had been rather constant - not much highlights, but not much total limbos either. Such a 'Tattoo You' album would be 'just another Stones album' we have used to during the last decades, not dramatically better or worse.

Funny thing also is that when an unreleased bootleg gem is finally released - as it took place in EXILE/SOME GIRLS projects - some of its greatness seems to fade away when it sees the daylight... The only 'winners' seem to be the ones we never have heard before (such as "Plundered My Soul"). Also, I don't believe that any masterpiece album was ever lost due to 'wrong' song choices (even though some slightly better ones could have been composed).

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-21 09:48 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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big4

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gotdablouse
"Memory Hotel" - all that's known about it is available here : [www.iorr.org]

"Tattoo You" was not promoted as a "leftovers" album, it only surfaced (to the general public at least) in 1989 when Mick told NME (or Melody Maker) that he was scared that people would say that they were using "old song" on TY...I'm not even sure "Worried About You" was known to have been played at the El Mocambo? None of the TY reviews I remember reading a few years later mentioned that.

It wasn't promoted as such, but even when it was released the reviews and articles stated that the tracks on it spanned several years. I even think the Stones themselves said as much during some interviews of that period.

They didn't hide its origin but they weren't too vocal about it either. For example, the sleeve didn't contain any info of the origin of the songs or even who did contribute in them (Rollins, Taylor...) I can't even remember when I actually realized that it wasn't a 'normal' album...

- Doxa

It wasn't made official (Mick interview) until Steel Wheels but when UC came out some magazines did say that all the tracks were new as they'd run out of old material from the produective 77/78 sessions...not quite true since "Too Tough" dated back to 1975 tough.

I'd bought old copies of magazines in the mid-80s dating back to the TY release and there was nothing to indicate that it wasn't a new album as all the others had been. When asked about the lack of credits by Ray Bonici [syp.blog4ever.com] Mick said he couldn't remember who had played on what and that people had been played so it didn't matter...

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Quote
gotdablouse

Quote
Doxa

Quote
big4

Quote
gotdablouse
"Memory Hotel" - all that's known about it is available here : [www.iorr.org]

"Tattoo You" was not promoted as a "leftovers" album, it only surfaced (to the general public at least) in 1989 when Mick told NME (or Melody Maker) that he was scared that people would say that they were using "old song" on TY...I'm not even sure "Worried About You" was known to have been played at the El Mocambo? None of the TY reviews I remember reading a few years later mentioned that.

It wasn't promoted as such, but even when it was released the reviews and articles stated that the tracks on it spanned several years. I even think the Stones themselves said as much during some interviews of that period.

They didn't hide its origin but they weren't too vocal about it either. For example, the sleeve didn't contain any info of the origin of the songs or even who did contribute in them (Rollins, Taylor...) I can't even remember when I actually realized that it wasn't a 'normal' album...

- Doxa

It wasn't made official (Mick interview) until Steel Wheels but when UC came out some magazines did say that all the tracks were new as they'd run out of old material from the produective 77/78 sessions...not quite true since "Too Tough" dated back to 1975 tough.

I'd bought old copies of magazines in the mid-80s dating back to the TY release and there was nothing to indicate that it wasn't a new album as all the others had been. When asked about the lack of credits by Ray Bonici [syp.blog4ever.com] Mick said he couldn't remember who had played on what and that people had been played so it didn't matter...

So it was, one could say, like a public secret for years. Educated folks would know its 'story' - as I recall people saying here that they did know, or had read about it, by the the time of its release - but over-all strategy by the band was to be if not 'hush-hush', but not at least shouting it too aloud...

But there was that excellent CREEM Keith Richards interview from 1981 where the issue was discussed rather openly. I recall Keith mentioning that he didn't have much to do in finishing the album, because "all there was Jagger's job left to do" or something to the effect. Probably the nature of the album wasn't such a 'fake' or 'playing a foul game' for them, but just a bit differently way made album; they had used the old non-used songs earlier - most notably in EXILE - so even that was not any novelty or a 'sin'. Reporting the history of recording processes wasn't any newsworthy thing, or a thing one should include to the promotion of the album.

But there is another aspect in TATTOO YOU that I think plays a role here; making EMOTIONAL RESCUE was a real pain in the ass for them (thanks to Mick and Keith's relationship) - so probably doing an album without them needing to face each other too much was a healthy option at the time... so better to use tracks - and especially Keith's contribution - already in the can. The other reason could've been the time schedules; they wanted to have a new album to go with the new tour, and making one a'la EMOTIONAL RESCUE would have taken damn too long...

I think the reputation of TATTOO YOU as not a 'real' album or some kind of 'fake' has been a product of post-80's years. But it wasn't that 'oddity' in the first place...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-21 11:20 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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gotdablouse

Quote
Doxa

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big4

Quote
gotdablouse
"Memory Hotel" - all that's known about it is available here : [www.iorr.org]

"Tattoo You" was not promoted as a "leftovers" album, it only surfaced (to the general public at least) in 1989 when Mick told NME (or Melody Maker) that he was scared that people would say that they were using "old song" on TY...I'm not even sure "Worried About You" was known to have been played at the El Mocambo? None of the TY reviews I remember reading a few years later mentioned that.

It wasn't promoted as such, but even when it was released the reviews and articles stated that the tracks on it spanned several years. I even think the Stones themselves said as much during some interviews of that period.

They didn't hide its origin but they weren't too vocal about it either. For example, the sleeve didn't contain any info of the origin of the songs or even who did contribute in them (Rollins, Taylor...) I can't even remember when I actually realized that it wasn't a 'normal' album...

- Doxa

It wasn't made official (Mick interview) until Steel Wheels but when UC came out some magazines did say that all the tracks were new as they'd run out of old material from the produective 77/78 sessions...not quite true since "Too Tough" dated back to 1975 tough.

I'd bought old copies of magazines in the mid-80s dating back to the TY release and there was nothing to indicate that it wasn't a new album as all the others had been. When asked about the lack of credits by Ray Bonici [syp.blog4ever.com] Mick said he couldn't remember who had played on what and that people had been played so it didn't matter...

So it was, one could say, like a public secret for years. Educated folks would know its 'story' - as I recall people saying here that they did know, or had read about it, by the the time of its release - but over-all strategy by the band was to be if not 'hush-hush', but not at least shouting it too aloud...

But there was that excellent CREEM Keith Richards interview from 1981 where the issue was discussed rather openly. I recall Keith mentioning that he didn't have much to do in finishing the album, because "all there was Jagger's job left to do" or something to the effect. Probably the nature of the album wasn't such a 'fake' or 'playing a foul game' for them, but just a bit differently way made album; they had used the old non-used songs earlier - most notably in EXILE - so even that was not any novelty or a 'sin'. Reporting the history of recording processes wasn't any newsworthy thing, or a thing one should include to the promotion of the album.

But there is another aspect in TATTOO YOU that I think plays a role here; making EMOTIONAL RESCUE was a real pain in the ass for them (thanks to Mick and Keith's relationship) - so probably doing an album without them needing to face each other too much was a healthy option at the time... so better to use tracks - and especially Keith's contribution - already in the can. The other reason could've been the time schedules; they wanted to have a new album to go with the new tour, and making one a'la EMOTIONAL RESCUE would have taken damn too long...

I think the reputation of TATTOO YOU as not a 'real' album or some kind of 'fake' has been a product of post-80's years. But it wasn't that 'oddity' in the first place...

- Doxa

But I read somewhere (Giles' book?) that they both attended the mixing sessions. Mick finished it alone, though, making some changes that Keith wasn't too happy about - especially the album's name change - from "Tattoo" to Tattoo You"...

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DandelionPowderman

But I read somewhere (Giles' book?) that they both attended the mixing sessions. Mick finished it alone, though, making some changes that Keith wasn't too happy about - especially the album's name change - from "Tattoo" to Tattoo You"...

I have also heard about it. But I think what is essential is that Keith's involvement was rather minimal compared to his usual contribution. By contrast, I recall reading Jagger's interview from 1980 in where he complained that Keith had been mixing EMOTIONAL RESCUE for weeks and weeks - actually months - without any notable result or difference (to Mick's taste), and Jagger having lost not just patience but interest... My picture is that with TATTOO YOU they wanted to get rid of those routines in order to get at least something done... which meant more command to Jagger.

Which didn't mean that Richards hadn't a role at all. If I have understood right, he was also in the process of picking up the songs (or his opinion wanted to be heard), he did some overdubs, and he took part in mixing it (which took place again in New York, if I recall right). What was the nature of the latter like, just having him 'okaying' the stuff Mick had made in Paris, or more, or what, who knows

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-21 11:49 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

But I read somewhere (Giles' book?) that they both attended the mixing sessions. Mick finished it alone, though, making some changes that Keith wasn't too happy about - especially the album's name change - from "Tattoo" to Tattoo You"...

I have also heard about it. But I think what is essential is that Keith's involvement was rather minimal compared to his usual contribution. By contrast, I recall reading Jagger's interview from 1980 in where he complained that Keith had been mixing EMOTIONAL RESCUE for weeks and weeks - actually months - without any notable result or difference (to Mick's taste), and Jagger having lost not just patience but interest... My picture is that with TATTOO YOU they wanted to get rid of those routines in order to get at least something done... which meant more command to Jagger.

Which didn't mean that Richards hadn't a role at all. If I have understood right, he was also in the process of picking up the songs (or his opinion wanted to be heard), he did some overdubs, and he took part in mixing it (which took place again in New York, if I recall right). What was the nature of the latter like, just having him 'okaying' the stuff Mick had made in Paris, or more, or what, who knows

- Doxa

A point there might be that most of the songs were close to finished, except for the vocals. We can tell that from the bootlegs, and how much of the recorded tracks they used on the album.

Of course, Keith could have been there, laying down more back up vocals, but if he was happy with how the songs sounded, perhaps he chose to pass. Actually, he sings back up vocals on a lot of the tracks, so maybe he understood that it was up to Mick to finish these songs without his presence?

Originally Mick had planned to tour behind ER (just read that in an old "Hit Parader" from October 1980 that someone uploaded here [www.mediafire.com]) but he/they must have realized it was not strong enough to tour hence the (bright) idea of TY. No mention of Keith's endless remixing of ER though, do you remember where you read that?



--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-21 12:57 by gotdablouse.

They need to take a leaf from The Grateful Dead and Neil YOung, and open the flood gates and let the fans take their choices. I'm don't like this drip feed of re-releases of the same old material. Let's have some more live shows starting with the classics like Leeds 71, then move onto studio stuff. The way they are sdoing it at the moment is a little too mercenary.

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crumbling_mice
They need to take a leaf from The Grateful Dead and Neil YOung, and open the flood gates and let the fans take their choices. I'm don't like this drip feed of re-releases of the same old material. Let's have some more live shows starting with the classics like Leeds 71, then move onto studio stuff. The way they are sdoing it at the moment is a little too mercenary.

Why not a different 71 show, that we don't have in good quality already?

Newcastle, please!

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Doxa

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gotdablouse

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Doxa

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big4

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gotdablouse
"Memory Hotel" - all that's known about it is available here : [www.iorr.org]

"Tattoo You" was not promoted as a "leftovers" album, it only surfaced (to the general public at least) in 1989 when Mick told NME (or Melody Maker) that he was scared that people would say that they were using "old song" on TY...I'm not even sure "Worried About You" was known to have been played at the El Mocambo? None of the TY reviews I remember reading a few years later mentioned that.

It wasn't promoted as such, but even when it was released the reviews and articles stated that the tracks on it spanned several years. I even think the Stones themselves said as much during some interviews of that period.

They didn't hide its origin but they weren't too vocal about it either. For example, the sleeve didn't contain any info of the origin of the songs or even who did contribute in them (Rollins, Taylor...) I can't even remember when I actually realized that it wasn't a 'normal' album...

- Doxa

It wasn't made official (Mick interview) until Steel Wheels but when UC came out some magazines did say that all the tracks were new as they'd run out of old material from the produective 77/78 sessions...not quite true since "Too Tough" dated back to 1975 tough.

I'd bought old copies of magazines in the mid-80s dating back to the TY release and there was nothing to indicate that it wasn't a new album as all the others had been. When asked about the lack of credits by Ray Bonici [syp.blog4ever.com] Mick said he couldn't remember who had played on what and that people had been played so it didn't matter...

So it was, one could say, like a public secret for years. Educated folks would know its 'story' - as I recall people saying here that they did know, or had read about it, by the the time of its release - but over-all strategy by the band was to be if not 'hush-hush', but not at least shouting it too aloud...

But there was that excellent CREEM Keith Richards interview from 1981 where the issue was discussed rather openly. I recall Keith mentioning that he didn't have much to do in finishing the album, because "all there was Jagger's job left to do" or something to the effect. Probably the nature of the album wasn't such a 'fake' or 'playing a foul game' for them, but just a bit differently way made album; they had used the old non-used songs earlier - most notably in EXILE - so even that was not any novelty or a 'sin'. Reporting the history of recording processes wasn't any newsworthy thing, or a thing one should include to the promotion of the album.

But there is another aspect in TATTOO YOU that I think plays a role here; making EMOTIONAL RESCUE was a real pain in the ass for them (thanks to Mick and Keith's relationship) - so probably doing an album without them needing to face each other too much was a healthy option at the time... so better to use tracks - and especially Keith's contribution - already in the can. The other reason could've been the time schedules; they wanted to have a new album to go with the new tour, and making one a'la EMOTIONAL RESCUE would have taken damn too long...

I think the reputation of TATTOO YOU as not a 'real' album or some kind of 'fake' has been a product of post-80's years. But it wasn't that 'oddity' in the first place...

- Doxa

I have that Creem issue somewhere, in that interview also I think that Keith stated they needed an album to tour behind, and since there wasn't enough time to record one before the fall of '81 tour they went the route they did with TTY. Also, shortly after it came out didn't Mick Taylor complain about not being credited for Tops and Waiting On A Friend. I recall them being fairly open about TTY being an odds and sods type of release, but not being specific regarding what was recorded when.

Here's the Rolling Stone review of TTY, and in it they touch upon the fact of the tracks dating back several years, what was unknown at the time was which track was recorded when, but it was pretty much common knowledge that the new tracks were Heaven and Neighbors--the rest stretching as far back as GHS.

When Waiting On A Friend came out as a single, it was mentioned that the song originated back as far as GHS sessions (though actually it goes even further back of course). Also, here's a link and many of the quotes are from the 1981-1983 time period with the band talking openly about TTY not being an album of new material. I maintain that was a known fact well before 1989, but the specifics of when each track was recorded didn't become public knowledge until around '89.

Whilst MJ and KR can hardly stand to be on the same stage for 2 hours it's hard to see them recording much together.

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big4

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Doxa

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gotdablouse

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Doxa

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big4

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gotdablouse
"Memory Hotel" - all that's known about it is available here : [www.iorr.org]

"Tattoo You" was not promoted as a "leftovers" album, it only surfaced (to the general public at least) in 1989 when Mick told NME (or Melody Maker) that he was scared that people would say that they were using "old song" on TY...I'm not even sure "Worried About You" was known to have been played at the El Mocambo? None of the TY reviews I remember reading a few years later mentioned that.

It wasn't promoted as such, but even when it was released the reviews and articles stated that the tracks on it spanned several years. I even think the Stones themselves said as much during some interviews of that period.

They didn't hide its origin but they weren't too vocal about it either. For example, the sleeve didn't contain any info of the origin of the songs or even who did contribute in them (Rollins, Taylor...) I can't even remember when I actually realized that it wasn't a 'normal' album...

- Doxa

It wasn't made official (Mick interview) until Steel Wheels but when UC came out some magazines did say that all the tracks were new as they'd run out of old material from the produective 77/78 sessions...not quite true since "Too Tough" dated back to 1975 tough.

I'd bought old copies of magazines in the mid-80s dating back to the TY release and there was nothing to indicate that it wasn't a new album as all the others had been. When asked about the lack of credits by Ray Bonici [syp.blog4ever.com] Mick said he couldn't remember who had played on what and that people had been played so it didn't matter...

So it was, one could say, like a public secret for years. Educated folks would know its 'story' - as I recall people saying here that they did know, or had read about it, by the the time of its release - but over-all strategy by the band was to be if not 'hush-hush', but not at least shouting it too aloud...

But there was that excellent CREEM Keith Richards interview from 1981 where the issue was discussed rather openly. I recall Keith mentioning that he didn't have much to do in finishing the album, because "all there was Jagger's job left to do" or something to the effect. Probably the nature of the album wasn't such a 'fake' or 'playing a foul game' for them, but just a bit differently way made album; they had used the old non-used songs earlier - most notably in EXILE - so even that was not any novelty or a 'sin'. Reporting the history of recording processes wasn't any newsworthy thing, or a thing one should include to the promotion of the album.

But there is another aspect in TATTOO YOU that I think plays a role here; making EMOTIONAL RESCUE was a real pain in the ass for them (thanks to Mick and Keith's relationship) - so probably doing an album without them needing to face each other too much was a healthy option at the time... so better to use tracks - and especially Keith's contribution - already in the can. The other reason could've been the time schedules; they wanted to have a new album to go with the new tour, and making one a'la EMOTIONAL RESCUE would have taken damn too long...

I think the reputation of TATTOO YOU as not a 'real' album or some kind of 'fake' has been a product of post-80's years. But it wasn't that 'oddity' in the first place...

- Doxa

I have that Creem issue somewhere, in that interview also I think that Keith stated they needed an album to tour behind, and since there wasn't enough time to record one before the fall of '81 tour they went the route they did with TTY. Also, shortly after it came out didn't Mick Taylor complain about not being credited for Tops and Waiting On A Friend. I recall them being fairly open about TTY being an odds and sods type of release, but not being specific regarding what was recorded when.

Here's the Rolling Stone review of TTY, and in it they touch upon the fact of the tracks dating back several years, what was unknown at the time was which track was recorded when, but it was pretty much common knowledge that the new tracks were Heaven and Neighbors--the rest stretching as far back as GHS.

When Waiting On A Friend came out as a single, it was mentioned that the song originated back as far as GHS sessions (though actually it goes even further back of course). Also, here's a link and many of the quotes are from the 1981-1983 time period with the band talking openly about TTY not being an album of new material. I maintain that was a known fact well before 1989, but the specifics of when each track was recorded didn't become public knowledge until around '89.

Did they keep what Taylor played on Waiting On A Friend? I can't hear him, and I've listened closely for decades

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gotdablouse
No mention of Keith's endless remixing of ER though, do you remember where you read that?

I read that in a Finnish rock magazine called SOUNDI. The issue of late 1980 I think. The problem is that I have lost it, but I would like very much get into my hands again, and translate it into English here.

Namely, it is damn intersting interview, made by a Scottish freelancer who contributed a lot to that magazine (Jagger mentioned that "for a Finn, you seem to have a heavy Scottish accent...). The interview was done in Jagger's country home in England, and was actually interrupted by a sudden surprise appearance of (not totally straight) Keith Richards, and there was some tension... I can't recall if the album alraedy finished by then - Jagger was complaining the time wasted in studio (and of Keith's mixes), and was not sounding at all all too pleased about it. Keith, on the other hand, praised the album to heavens and mocked SOME GIRLS, saying that they have got their balls back or something to the effect... Anyway, Jagger talked a lot of intersting things there, and - for example, compared to that HIT PARADER interview - sounding surprisingly serious (funny littel detail I recall: they were watching football from a telly as they talked, and seemingly watching the match got so intense that Jagger said "well, I can talk alone to the tape, so you can watch football at peace..."><).

Shit, I need to get that issue to my hands!

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-21 14:30 by Doxa.

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DandelionPowderman

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big4

Quote
Doxa

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gotdablouse

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Doxa

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big4

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gotdablouse
"Memory Hotel" - all that's known about it is available here : [www.iorr.org]

"Tattoo You" was not promoted as a "leftovers" album, it only surfaced (to the general public at least) in 1989 when Mick told NME (or Melody Maker) that he was scared that people would say that they were using "old song" on TY...I'm not even sure "Worried About You" was known to have been played at the El Mocambo? None of the TY reviews I remember reading a few years later mentioned that.

It wasn't promoted as such, but even when it was released the reviews and articles stated that the tracks on it spanned several years. I even think the Stones themselves said as much during some interviews of that period.

They didn't hide its origin but they weren't too vocal about it either. For example, the sleeve didn't contain any info of the origin of the songs or even who did contribute in them (Rollins, Taylor...) I can't even remember when I actually realized that it wasn't a 'normal' album...

- Doxa

It wasn't made official (Mick interview) until Steel Wheels but when UC came out some magazines did say that all the tracks were new as they'd run out of old material from the produective 77/78 sessions...not quite true since "Too Tough" dated back to 1975 tough.

I'd bought old copies of magazines in the mid-80s dating back to the TY release and there was nothing to indicate that it wasn't a new album as all the others had been. When asked about the lack of credits by Ray Bonici [syp.blog4ever.com] Mick said he couldn't remember who had played on what and that people had been played so it didn't matter...

So it was, one could say, like a public secret for years. Educated folks would know its 'story' - as I recall people saying here that they did know, or had read about it, by the the time of its release - but over-all strategy by the band was to be if not 'hush-hush', but not at least shouting it too aloud...

But there was that excellent CREEM Keith Richards interview from 1981 where the issue was discussed rather openly. I recall Keith mentioning that he didn't have much to do in finishing the album, because "all there was Jagger's job left to do" or something to the effect. Probably the nature of the album wasn't such a 'fake' or 'playing a foul game' for them, but just a bit differently way made album; they had used the old non-used songs earlier - most notably in EXILE - so even that was not any novelty or a 'sin'. Reporting the history of recording processes wasn't any newsworthy thing, or a thing one should include to the promotion of the album.

But there is another aspect in TATTOO YOU that I think plays a role here; making EMOTIONAL RESCUE was a real pain in the ass for them (thanks to Mick and Keith's relationship) - so probably doing an album without them needing to face each other too much was a healthy option at the time... so better to use tracks - and especially Keith's contribution - already in the can. The other reason could've been the time schedules; they wanted to have a new album to go with the new tour, and making one a'la EMOTIONAL RESCUE would have taken damn too long...

I think the reputation of TATTOO YOU as not a 'real' album or some kind of 'fake' has been a product of post-80's years. But it wasn't that 'oddity' in the first place...

- Doxa

I have that Creem issue somewhere, in that interview also I think that Keith stated they needed an album to tour behind, and since there wasn't enough time to record one before the fall of '81 tour they went the route they did with TTY. Also, shortly after it came out didn't Mick Taylor complain about not being credited for Tops and Waiting On A Friend. I recall them being fairly open about TTY being an odds and sods type of release, but not being specific regarding what was recorded when.

Here's the Rolling Stone review of TTY, and in it they touch upon the fact of the tracks dating back several years, what was unknown at the time was which track was recorded when, but it was pretty much common knowledge that the new tracks were Heaven and Neighbors--the rest stretching as far back as GHS.

When Waiting On A Friend came out as a single, it was mentioned that the song originated back as far as GHS sessions (though actually it goes even further back of course). Also, here's a link and many of the quotes are from the 1981-1983 time period with the band talking openly about TTY not being an album of new material. I maintain that was a known fact well before 1989, but the specifics of when each track was recorded didn't become public knowledge until around '89.

Did they keep what Taylor played on Waiting On A Friend? I can't hear him, and I've listened closely for decades

I remember a quote (from someone somewhere) that Taylor's guitar solo was replaced - note for note - by the sax solo we all know today

Quote
Doxa
Anyway, I actually think they could easily do today a TATTOO YOU style album of their unreleased material, starting from, say, VOODOO LOUNGE sessions, and there wouldn't be any problem, since they haven't artistically changed one bit from those days. It would sound as original and update - or retro - as VOODOO LOUNGE, BRIDGES TO BABYLON or A BIGGER BANG does.

The other issue is why bother - most likely there wouldn't be TATTOO YOU like miracle to be born (the material that actually made the albums during these years wasn't that spectacular, so what about the left-overs...), and like Ron Wood has remarked some years ago, it is easier from them to start from a scratch than continue once rejected project (which also says something of the material in question - they can autopilot-like do new tunes if they feel like to, and the old ideas probably weren't that inspiring or important they would go back to them).

- Doxa

Well that's absolutely correct, from Ronnie's perspective. Tattoo You though is a Mick album. It's Mick being left to his own devices...Tattoo You, Some Girls Deluxe disc and Exile deluxe disc are examples of that.

While I'd be happy with a new Stones album, I'd be just as happy with Mick pouring over, rerecording, adding some Mick Taylor etc, to the post Voodoo material in the vault and releasing that as Tattoo You II.

Honest man was pretty good and didnt vl. Also Jump on top of me, the storm and others were excellent and better than some of the stuff on vl. So I do thing some gems might be out there. Didnt Rob Fraboni work w keith on b2b stuff but mick ultimately rejected? I believe they don't always pick the best stuff to go on thier albums. MJ wanted b2b and vl to be curent and missed opportunity. On top of tue mysterious memory hotel album didn't Jerry Lee Lewis have an extended jam session in ireland w the Stones around vl? Jerry had hit a good period as far as his playing then. So yes there is some interesting stuff hiding out there.

Go Dawgs!

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big4

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gotdablouse

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gotdablouse
"Memory Hotel" - all that's known about it is available here : [www.iorr.org]

"Tattoo You" was not promoted as a "leftovers" album, it only surfaced (to the general public at least) in 1989 when Mick told NME (or Melody Maker) that he was scared that people would say that they were using "old song" on TY...I'm not even sure "Worried About You" was known to have been played at the El Mocambo? None of the TY reviews I remember reading a few years later mentioned that.

It wasn't promoted as such, but even when it was released the reviews and articles stated that the tracks on it spanned several years. I even think the Stones themselves said as much during some interviews of that period.

They didn't hide its origin but they weren't too vocal about it either. For example, the sleeve didn't contain any info of the origin of the songs or even who did contribute in them (Rollins, Taylor...) I can't even remember when I actually realized that it wasn't a 'normal' album...

- Doxa

It wasn't made official (Mick interview) until Steel Wheels but when UC came out some magazines did say that all the tracks were new as they'd run out of old material from the produective 77/78 sessions...not quite true since "Too Tough" dated back to 1975 tough.

I'd bought old copies of magazines in the mid-80s dating back to the TY release and there was nothing to indicate that it wasn't a new album as all the others had been. When asked about the lack of credits by Ray Bonici [syp.blog4ever.com] Mick said he couldn't remember who had played on what and that people had been played so it didn't matter...

So it was, one could say, like a public secret for years. Educated folks would know its 'story' - as I recall people saying here that they did know, or had read about it, by the the time of its release - but over-all strategy by the band was to be if not 'hush-hush', but not at least shouting it too aloud...

But there was that excellent CREEM Keith Richards interview from 1981 where the issue was discussed rather openly. I recall Keith mentioning that he didn't have much to do in finishing the album, because "all there was Jagger's job left to do" or something to the effect. Probably the nature of the album wasn't such a 'fake' or 'playing a foul game' for them, but just a bit differently way made album; they had used the old non-used songs earlier - most notably in EXILE - so even that was not any novelty or a 'sin'. Reporting the history of recording processes wasn't any newsworthy thing, or a thing one should include to the promotion of the album.

But there is another aspect in TATTOO YOU that I think plays a role here; making EMOTIONAL RESCUE was a real pain in the ass for them (thanks to Mick and Keith's relationship) - so probably doing an album without them needing to face each other too much was a healthy option at the time... so better to use tracks - and especially Keith's contribution - already in the can. The other reason could've been the time schedules; they wanted to have a new album to go with the new tour, and making one a'la EMOTIONAL RESCUE would have taken damn too long...

I think the reputation of TATTOO YOU as not a 'real' album or some kind of 'fake' has been a product of post-80's years. But it wasn't that 'oddity' in the first place...

- Doxa

I have that Creem issue somewhere, in that interview also I think that Keith stated they needed an album to tour behind, and since there wasn't enough time to record one before the fall of '81 tour they went the route they did with TTY. Also, shortly after it came out didn't Mick Taylor complain about not being credited for Tops and Waiting On A Friend. I recall them being fairly open about TTY being an odds and sods type of release, but not being specific regarding what was recorded when.

Here's the Rolling Stone review of TTY, and in it they touch upon the fact of the tracks dating back several years, what was unknown at the time was which track was recorded when, but it was pretty much common knowledge that the new tracks were Heaven and Neighbors--the rest stretching as far back as GHS.

When Waiting On A Friend came out as a single, it was mentioned that the song originated back as far as GHS sessions (though actually it goes even further back of course). Also, here's a link and many of the quotes are from the 1981-1983 time period with the band talking openly about TTY not being an album of new material. I maintain that was a known fact well before 1989, but the specifics of when each track was recorded didn't become public knowledge until around '89.

Did they keep what Taylor played on Waiting On A Friend? I can't hear him, and I've listened closely for decades

I remember a quote (from someone somewhere) that Taylor's guitar solo was replaced - note for note - by the sax solo we all know today

Interesting! I´ve never heard that before...

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No mention of Keith's endless remixing of ER though, do you remember where you read that?

I read that in a Finnish rock magazine called SOUNDI. The issue of late 1980 I think. The problem is that I have lost it, but I would like very much get into my hands again, and translate it into English here.

Namely, it is damn intersting interview, made by a Scottish freelancer who contributed a lot to that magazine (Jagger mentioned that "for a Finn, you seem to have a heavy Scottish accent...). The interview was done in Jagger's country home in England, and was actually interrupted by a sudden surprise appearance of (not totally straight) Keith Richards, and there was some tension... I can't recall if the album alraedy finished by then - Jagger was complaining the time wasted in studio (and of Keith's mixes), and was not sounding at all all too pleased about it. Keith, on the other hand, praised the album to heavens and mocked SOME GIRLS, saying that they have got their balls back or something to the effect... Anyway, Jagger talked a lot of intersting things there, and - for example, compared to that HIT PARADER interview - sounding surprisingly serious (funny littel detail I recall: they were watching football from a telly as they talked, and seemingly watching the match got so intense that Jagger said "well, I can talk alone to the tape, so you can watch football at peace..."><).

Shit, I need to get that issue to my hands!

- Doxa

That would be a great read. I think the first time I read about the lengthy mixing process was in the Rolling With The Stones book and here on IORR-corteousy Doxa.

This could also be why TTY was so easy to put together. Maybe Mick and Keith compromised on what songs would appear on ER, and the songs left off which were complete made up most of Side 1 of TTY, the only song from the Pathe Marconi era on Side 2 is probably Ain't No Use in Crying.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-21 18:24 by big4.

It's been said by a few people in various threads over the last few years that some of the VOODOO leftovers like You Got It Made, It's Funny (brilliant), Make It Now and Hold On You (another brilliant track, the drums, bass, keyboard and some really nice harmonica, at least the version I've got on the ol' boot - it almost has the feel of something from SOME GIRLS or whatever, a more tuneful kind of Miss You/Emotional Rescue vamp but more musically structured) would be great for the backbone of an album of this sort.

Based on those tracks musically they seem to be more interesting and some of them better than at least half if not more than what appeared on VL.

Maybe they didn't sound retro enough for Don Was.

Whatever they did for LICKS only two of the four on the album turned out decent to me (Don't Stop and Losing My Touch). The other two are not good at all. The farting around that was recorded for FOUR FLICKS is fun to watch but songwise it makes Cook Cook Blues seem genius.

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GasLightStreet
It's been said by a few people in various threads over the last few years that some of the VOODOO leftovers like You Got It Made, It's Funny (brilliant), Make It Now and Hold On You (another brilliant track, the drums, bass, keyboard and some really nice harmonica, at least the version I've got on the ol' boot - it almost has the feel of something from SOME GIRLS or whatever, a more tuneful kind of Miss You/Emotional Rescue vamp but more musically structured) would be great for the backbone of an album of this sort.

Based on those tracks musically they seem to be more interesting and some of them better than at least half if not more than what appeared on VL.

Maybe they didn't sound retro enough for Don Was.

Whatever they did for LICKS only two of the four on the album turned out decent to me (Don't Stop and Losing My Touch). The other two are not good at all. The farting around that was recorded for FOUR FLICKS is fun to watch but songwise it makes Cook Cook Blues seem genius.

According to articles at the time Was stated he had some kind of anti-groove tune edict during the recording of VL. This turned out to be a poor decision because the tunes you mention are both groove-oriented tunes and far superior to much of the released VL. The exclusion of Honest Man is still a head-scratcher.

If they went the TTY-style route for album. I wonder if we'd get anything they recorded during the 2002 Saber sessions that Teddy B has alluded to a few times on here.

Mick said Was was anti-groove! It's possible that if Mick had gotten what he wanted it may have turned out to be a better album, which seems a bit strange to say considering some of his other ideas. Although his work on TY, from what we know of anyway, turned out to be brilliant (supposedly a few leftover that were finished).

Perhaps VL could have been up in that atmosphere as well, at least in regard to the tracks they decided to finsish (who the hell decided New Faces was good!??) being left in the can for the ones they should have finished, like the ones mentioned.

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GasLightStreet
Mick said Was was anti-groove! It's possible that if Mick had gotten what he wanted it may have turned out to be a better album, which seems a bit strange to say considering some of his other ideas. Although his work on TY, from what we know of anyway, turned out to be brilliant (supposedly a few leftover that were finished).

Perhaps VL could have been up in that atmosphere as well, at least in regard to the tracks they decided to finsish (who the hell decided New Faces was good!??) being left in the can for the ones they should have finished, like the ones mentioned.

To me, New Faces is the perfect example of Was getting what he wanted in terms of 'Stones retro' for Voodoo Lounge.

Lady Jane sound-a-like, check!

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big4
I have that Creem issue somewhere, in that interview also I think that Keith stated they needed an album to tour behind, and since there wasn't enough time to record one before the fall of '81 tour they went the route they did with TTY. Also, shortly after it came out didn't Mick Taylor complain about not being credited for Tops and Waiting On A Friend. I recall them being fairly open about TTY being an odds and sods type of release, but not being specific regarding what was recorded when.

Here's the Rolling Stone review of TTY, and in it they touch upon the fact of the tracks dating back several years, what was unknown at the time was which track was recorded when, but it was pretty much common knowledge that the new tracks were Heaven and Neighbors--the rest stretching as far back as GHS.

When Waiting On A Friend came out as a single, it was mentioned that the song originated back as far as GHS sessions (though actually it goes even further back of course). Also, here's a link and many of the quotes are from the 1981-1983 time period with the band talking openly about TTY not being an album of new material. I maintain that was a known fact well before 1989, but the specifics of when each track was recorded didn't become public knowledge until around '89.

Thanks for the links, nice RS review too, they don't write them like that anymore, eh...like Stones albums I suppose. Anyway, yes they did say quite a bit about "old" tracks, more than I remembered from the interviews I read a few years after in old magazines. As a side note WOF was started during the GHS sessions AFAIK, where did you read that might not be the case?

What are these "2002 Saber" sessions? Are they supposed to have happened before or after the Paris sessions that produced the 4 tracks and according to Keith (or Ronnie ?) "30 songs" ? I still wish they had slapped together an album in Paris and hit the road. These sessions clearly went better than expected since they had announced 2 new songs at the "Blimp Press Conference", with Keith saying that the "one small problem" was they actually had to record the song, and ended up with 4, which were not worse (or better granted) than anything on ABB.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-21 23:43 by gotdablouse.

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gotdablouse

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big4
I have that Creem issue somewhere, in that interview also I think that Keith stated they needed an album to tour behind, and since there wasn't enough time to record one before the fall of '81 tour they went the route they did with TTY. Also, shortly after it came out didn't Mick Taylor complain about not being credited for Tops and Waiting On A Friend. I recall them being fairly open about TTY being an odds and sods type of release, but not being specific regarding what was recorded when.

Here's the Rolling Stone review of TTY, and in it they touch upon the fact of the tracks dating back several years, what was unknown at the time was which track was recorded when, but it was pretty much common knowledge that the new tracks were Heaven and Neighbors--the rest stretching as far back as GHS.

When Waiting On A Friend came out as a single, it was mentioned that the song originated back as far as GHS sessions (though actually it goes even further back of course). Also, here's a link and many of the quotes are from the 1981-1983 time period with the band talking openly about TTY not being an album of new material. I maintain that was a known fact well before 1989, but the specifics of when each track was recorded didn't become public knowledge until around '89.

Thanks for the links, nice RS review too, they don't write them like that anymore, eh...like Stones albums I suppose. Anyway, yes they did say quite a bit about "old" tracks, more than I remembered from the interviews I read a few years after in old magazines. As a side note WOF was started during the GHS sessions AFAIK, where did you read that might not be the case?

What are these "2002 Saber" sessions? Are they supposed to have happened before or after the Paris sessions that produced the 4 tracks and according to Keith (or Ronnie ?) "30 songs" ? I still wish they had slapped together an album in Paris and hit the road. These sessions clearly went better than expected since they had announced 2 new songs at the "Blimp Press Conference", with Keith saying that the "one small problem" was they actually had to record the song, and ended up with 4, which were not worse (or better granted) than anything on ABB.

Thanks! Yeah I agree with you about the state of album reviews.

As for WOF, I read that a while back, but here's a brief on WOF from last-fm

IORR thread w/ info on there being 2002 sessions with Danny Saber

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big4

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GasLightStreet
It's been said by a few people in various threads over the last few years that some of the VOODOO leftovers like You Got It Made, It's Funny (brilliant), Make It Now and Hold On You (another brilliant track, the drums, bass, keyboard and some really nice harmonica, at least the version I've got on the ol' boot - it almost has the feel of something from SOME GIRLS or whatever, a more tuneful kind of Miss You/Emotional Rescue vamp but more musically structured) would be great for the backbone of an album of this sort.

Based on those tracks musically they seem to be more interesting and some of them better than at least half if not more than what appeared on VL.

Maybe they didn't sound retro enough for Don Was.

Whatever they did for LICKS only two of the four on the album turned out decent to me (Don't Stop and Losing My Touch). The other two are not good at all. The farting around that was recorded for FOUR FLICKS is fun to watch but songwise it makes Cook Cook Blues seem genius.

According to articles at the time Was stated he had some kind of anti-groove tune edict during the recording of VL. This turned out to be a poor decision because the tunes you mention are both groove-oriented tunes and far superior to much of the released VL. The exclusion of Honest Man is still a head-scratcher.

If they went the TTY-style route for album. I wonder if we'd get anything they recorded during the 2002 Saber sessions that Teddy B has alluded to a few times on here.

Honest Man is VERY similar to Sweet Thing, but dressed up as a rock track.

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big4
Thanks! Yeah I agree with you about the state of album reviews.

As for WOF, I read that a while back, but here's a brief on WOF from last-fm

IORR thread w/ info on there being 2002 sessions with Danny Saber

Weird, I wonder when they would have fit in these sessions? Did they try to get an album done for the 2002 tour and then gave up and went for the "2 new songs" announced at the "Blimp PC"? I've certainly never read anything about that anywhere else! Not sure what to look for in your WOAF link? I do remember 100 Years Ago and Silver Train (I think) having been started in 1970 but not WOAF, hopefully all that kind of stuff will be documented in detail one day...

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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exhpart
Whilst MJ and KR can hardly stand to be on the same stage for 2 hours it's hard to see them recording much together.

Well, the two of them they did most of ABB together in France

What boot is Honest Man on?

Some horrible lyrics in that one... I'll move into the danger zone...