It is their best achievement on record, I think. It is not just a 'typical' hit, but in there they reach into such epical waters that it transcends time and place, even though capturing the zeitgest better than any Stones song ever. A real masterpiece. Even though I don't usually like to cut a work of art into pieces, one thing needs to be said: it is Keith's most memorable contribution in record as well. That guitar intro is simply genious, being among the most capturing pieces ever done with that instrument.

Live it worked masterfully too back in the old days, presenting that transcendental, haunting atmosphere by some different means. But unfortunately during the modern era it suffered the same fate as many legendary 'dangerous' Stones songs: it was put into Vegas entertainment machine and played to death. Just for the honour of the song, I was pleased that they skipped it during A BIGGER BANG tour, and I thought it could rest in peace. But unfortunately they picked it up again in this victory lap of theirs. It was sad to notice in Hyde Park that hearing a live version of my favourite song ever couldn't move me at all and just made me bored. But doesn't change a thing when I put my LET IT BLEED album on, and hear that opening track. Still brings me shivers every time I hear it.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 10:01 by Doxa.

They never managed to create THAT feeling again on stage (maybe with the exception of the 1969 live versions), like they did with the studio version - with or without Taylor.

The studio version is magic and transcending. Philly 72 or Brussels 73 are not. They are impressive and played with a lot of energy - but not anywhere near the original, imo.

Maybe it's the harp. Maybe it's Mick's singing. Maybe it's Keith's guitar. Maybe it's MC. Most likely, it's a combination of all these factors that are missing in the Stones's live versions of this gem.

Yes. And I agree Keith's guitar intro is genius. Many times I've thought "how did he come up with that?". Hendrix did many amazing things with a guitar, but for me, nothing stays so fresh and beautiful to hear as Kieth's relatively simple intro - and his rhythm that follows. I've listened to probably over a hundred versions of GS and thousands of times in total. And I'm looking forward to listening to GS another thousand times.

It was my favorite song during the 50 and counting tour, especially the 2013 concerts, even though I agree with the critical remarks about the live version, especially in the 2000s. I probably enjoyed it, live, so much this year, because it was played so poorly during ABB. I did not like any performance I heard during ABB (and some were terrible, such as Fort Lauderdale '06), so the much better live version this year sounded super. Even though, compared to the studio version and the early live versions, it was nowhere near as great.

On second thought, during this tour, I enjoyed MR and the rarer CYHMK as much or more than GS, but GS was still very special for me , live, this year.

Apart from on the pay per view (too slow), Paint It Black was fantastic throughout the tour. MR and YGTS as well. And I have never heard a better BTMMR than in London on November 25.

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DandelionPowderman
They never managed to create THAT feeling again on stage (maybe with the exception of the 1969 live versions), like they did with the studio version - with or without Taylor.

The studio version is magic and transcending. Philly 72 or Brussels 73 are not. They are impressive and played with a lot of energy - but not anywhere near the original, imo.

Maybe it's the harp. Maybe it's Mick's singing. Maybe it's Keith's guitar. Maybe it's MC. Most likely, it's a combination of all these factors that are missing in the Stones's live versions of this gem.

True that the great live versions from their peak years couldn't create THAT feeling, but their "road version" brought a new angle into it - like with their all readings of classical BEGGARS/BLEED material. Live it transformed into something different (but still haunting and dangerous), or it had a new life, which I take to be an achievement of its own. During modern era they started to copy the original version too closely, to recreate its atmosphere, and watered it down. Yep, some great versions exist - such as Paradiso '95 - but most of their versions are just lame copies, where you can hear too clearly how they miss the mark.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 11:34 by Doxa.

<their "road version" brought to a new angle into it - like with their all readings of classical BEGGARS/BLEED material.>

On Ya Yas I think they succeeded the most with the decision of Keith playing his bass riff with his guitar, instead of what he played on Live With Me on the album. That really improved the song, imo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 11:54 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman
<their "road version" brought to a new angle into it - like with their all readings of classical BEGGARS/BLEED material.>

On Ya Yas I think they succeeded the most with the decision of Keith playing his bass riff with his guitar, instead of what he played on the album. That really improved the song, imo.

You mean "Live With Me"? Yeah, a nice "road version". Keith's guitar does a lot, and probably is the most important individual factor, but I think they all over-all transformed song's feel into more hard-rocking direction.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<their "road version" brought to a new angle into it - like with their all readings of classical BEGGARS/BLEED material.>

On Ya Yas I think they succeeded the most with the decision of Keith playing his bass riff with his guitar, instead of what he played on the album. That really improved the song, imo.

You mean "Live With Me"? Yeah, a nice "road version". Keith's guitar does a lot, and probably is the most important individual factor, but I think they all over-all transformed song's feel into more hard-rocking direction.

- Doxa

Ha ha, did I forget to say which song? Brilliant Yes, Live With Me!

I thought you were just testing me....

- Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
They never managed to create THAT feeling again on stage (maybe with the exception of the 1969 live versions), like they did with the studio version - with or without Taylor.

The studio version is magic and transcending. Philly 72 or Brussels 73 are not. They are impressive and played with a lot of energy - but not anywhere near the original, imo.

Maybe it's the harp. Maybe it's Mick's singing. Maybe it's Keith's guitar. Maybe it's MC. Most likely, it's a combination of all these factors that are missing in the Stones's live versions of this gem.

I think the reason the '69 US Tour nearly matched the studio is because its simple and haunting in its own way.
Jagger's voice is great on the '69 tour and pounding bass and guitars give it a powerful effect..see Altamont version - brilliant.
The 72/73 were also great live...but missed that haunting feel that both the album and live 1969 have....which is the essence of the song.

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Eleanor Rigby

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DandelionPowderman
They never managed to create THAT feeling again on stage (maybe with the exception of the 1969 live versions), like they did with the studio version - with or without Taylor.

The studio version is magic and transcending. Philly 72 or Brussels 73 are not. They are impressive and played with a lot of energy - but not anywhere near the original, imo.

Maybe it's the harp. Maybe it's Mick's singing. Maybe it's Keith's guitar. Maybe it's MC. Most likely, it's a combination of all these factors that are missing in the Stones's live versions of this gem.

I think the reason the '69 US Tour nearly matched the studio is because its simple and haunting in its own way.
Jagger's voice is great on the '69 tour and pounding bass and guitars give it a powerful effect..see Altamont version - brilliant.
The 72/73 were also great live...but missed that haunting feel that both the album and live 1969 have....which is the essence of the song.

That's how I feel, too, Eleanor. You're spot on about the guitars' and Bill's interplay in particular, imo. Mick also sang it better. It was fresher.

Yep..agreed...more original.

No, GS, Satisfaction and JJF are all equally great...

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IGTBA
Yes. And I agree Keith's guitar intro is genius. Many times I've thought "how did he come up with that?". Hendrix did many amazing things with a guitar, but for me, nothing stays so fresh and beautiful to hear as Kieth's relatively simple intro - and his rhythm that follows. I've listened to probably over a hundred versions of GS and thousands of times in total. And I'm looking forward to listening to GS another thousand times.

It was my favorite song during the 50 and counting tour, especially the 2013 concerts, even though I agree with the critical remarks about the live version, especially in the 2000s. I probably enjoyed it, live, so much this year, because it was played so poorly during ABB. I did not like any performance I heard during ABB (and some were terrible, such as Fort Lauderdale '06), so the much better live version this year sounded super. Even though, compared to the studio version and the early live versions, it was nowhere near as great.

whether it was mostly luck/mainly good touch or really pure genious meticolous piece of work: the studio version is one of those cases (few) you feel as if a bunch of people (Keif mainly) were not only at their peak of creativity but also managed to tight togather many small pieces of brilliant items. like with the golden slumbers et all melody closing abby road. like Layla of Eric Clapton. These masterpieces aare so inspiring that they must "escort" some epic violent acene in a Scorcese mafia film...

Anyway - with these type of song getting their full magic into the stage is nearly impossible even when it comes to perfectionists like Macca... impossible for our beloved sloppy RS... same goes witg JJF btw. many magic live versions but nothing like the studio version. You love GS live not so much for the quality but ...well... SINCE ITS GS AND THATS KEIF PLAYING IT!

thats why I love The Who as my twin "best loved band": they are the opposite from the RS: great at the studio. greater on atage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-01 18:18 by Wroclaw.

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LongBeachArena72

"Gimme Shelter" is their best studio performance.

^ This by far. The tremelo on the guitar, the percussion, the way it builds up. It's clearly their best moment in the studio.

The best SONG song (written) by the Stones as a SONG would probably be, Satisfaction, as it has been covered by many artists in many different genres, eras and styles and it always has a very "universal" message. EVERYBODY can relate to it, even people who don't like the Stones can listen to Devo or Otis Redding or Britney Spears, bringing its audience into the millions and millions.

But in my mind, the "best Stones song" overall in the catalog might actually be

"Love In Vain"


-- not written by the Stones of course, but certainly a truly great song that will survive the ages, completely timeless. Just as a SONG -- music, lyrics, melody, poetry - "Love In Vain" is way better than Satisfaction or Gimme Shelter, Tumbling Dice, etc. "The blue light was my blues and the red light was my mind" -- really haunting and sad image, that sums it all up in very few words.

The blue light was my blues and the red light was my mind"

.... Thanks and praises to Blind Lemon Jefferson and his Dry Southern Blues...



ROCKMAN

Yes. Yes it is.

Regardless, it's certainly in their (all time) Top Ten Songs. It's essentially the perfect song with doomage. They have other songs that are just as great but that are clearly different in context etc.

Gimme Shelter is supreme. Their best? Very likely.

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GasLightStreet
Regardless, it's certainly in their (all time) Top Ten Songs. It's essentially the perfect song with doomage. They have other songs that are just as great but that are clearly different in context etc.

Gimme Shelter is supreme. Their best? Very likely.

Why the doom? There's enough of that in the world today. Honky Tonk Women!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-02 02:48 by shadooby.

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shadooby

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GasLightStreet
Regardless, it's certainly in their (all time) Top Ten Songs. It's essentially the perfect song with doomage. They have other songs that are just as great but that are clearly different in context etc.

Gimme Shelter is supreme. Their best? Very likely.

Why the doom? Honky Tonk Women!

CONTEXT! Subject matter! HTW is BORRRRRRRRING compared to Gimme Shelter.

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DandelionPowderman

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Eleanor Rigby

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DandelionPowderman
They never managed to create THAT feeling again on stage (maybe with the exception of the 1969 live versions), like they did with the studio version - with or without Taylor.

The studio version is magic and transcending. Philly 72 or Brussels 73 are not. They are impressive and played with a lot of energy - but not anywhere near the original, imo.

Maybe it's the harp. Maybe it's Mick's singing. Maybe it's Keith's guitar. Maybe it's MC. Most likely, it's a combination of all these factors that are missing in the Stones's live versions of this gem.

I think the reason the '69 US Tour nearly matched the studio is because its simple and haunting in its own way.
Jagger's voice is great on the '69 tour and pounding bass and guitars give it a powerful effect..see Altamont version - brilliant.
The 72/73 were also great live...but missed that haunting feel that both the album and live 1969 have....which is the essence of the song.

That's how I feel, too, Eleanor. You're spot on about the guitars' and Bill's interplay in particular, imo. Mick also sang it better. It was fresher.

Yes, the 1969 versions are most likely closest to the 'original' haunting feel of the song. Probably the song still was so fresh that its feel was so much present that there was no other way to deliver it. And altogether the band has never sounded so threatening and dangerous as they did during that tour. The versions of the songs were played straight to the core, with their just invented 'hard rock' sound, with no extra gimmicks. In many ways I would rate the 1969 tour their peak year as a live act. They never been so 'hot' zeitgeist-wise, and still felt challenged, to prove they really are the 'greatest rock and roll band in the world'. Plus, they never have had so much new hot material to deliver as they did then - "Honky Tonk", "Flash" and all of BEGGARS BANQUET and LET IT BLEED... 1969 was really THE momentum for them as a live act, and GET YER YA-YA'S OUT! proved that to the whole world.

But that said, I love the way the band 'naturally' developed from the premises of 1969 tour in the following tours. The songs evolved as well when they found new angles to them. That what happened to "Gimme Shelter" as well, and I think especially the versions during 1972/73 tour are classical in terms of their own. Probably some of the 'original' haunting feel was lost, but they gave it a new essence and feel - still damn dangerous and magical - showing that there is more potential in the song as already shown. What a guitar fiesta it turned out to be, and a sure gig highlight. What I admire in those classical old days is the way each tour sounded so original and novel - the band never looked back or thought that the songs should always sound the same. No, they were living those songs, and breathed them, and the versions altered as the years and tours go by.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-02 11:29 by Doxa.

Yes! A marvellous version! Straight to the point. There is - especially in Jagger's spot-on, humble delivery - that almost melancholic despair, which just hits to your face.

- Doxa

A bit off topic but I wonder if anyone ever found out: how come in 1970 and 1971 - with the exception of that early 1970 EU tour in Sweden, GS was never included in the setlist? was that just a coincidence? deliberate choice (curse of Altamont)?

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Wroclaw
A bit off topic but I wonder if anyone ever found out: how come in 1970 and 1971 - with the exception of that early 1970 EU tour in Sweden, GS was never included in the setlist? was that just a coincidence? deliberate choice (curse of Altamont)?

It wasn't a staple in the setlist in 1969 either.

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DandelionPowderman

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Wroclaw
A bit off topic but I wonder if anyone ever found out: how come in 1970 and 1971 - with the exception of that early 1970 EU tour in Sweden, GS was never included in the setlist? was that just a coincidence? deliberate choice (curse of Altamont)?

It wasn't a staple in the setlist in 1969 either.

thats cause it hasnt been issued during most of it. even in the 3-5 occasions it was performed in the US it was late on the tour and you can hear audience are quiet as they hardly know this song. summer 1970 is another story. by this time RS magazine already crowned as PTBRSEW or something like that...

That's true.

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Doxa
Yes! A marvellous version! Straight to the point. There is - especially in Jagger's spot-on, humble delivery - that almost melancholic despair, which just hits to your face.

- Doxa

Yes Jagger's voice was as menacing as the guitars on the '69 tour.
There's also another great version from Phoenix (from memory), its the show that is incomplete.
Dandy can you post that one also?

That 'you really dressed up tonight' etc - did he say that at every show on that tour or was that put in to the MSG footage for GIMME SHELTER?