Not that I don’t enjoy most of it, but I don’t understand why it receives just so much praise. First of all, market-wise, it is more like a typical, short «US» rock album where you get two full A/B single tracks stuck in there. So taking away the single, what is left... Parachute Woman has grooving Keith licks, but it is a very plain, ordinary 12-bar blues, that does not stand out by any other features at all to my ear. Salt of the Earth does not shatter anything either; kind of a novelty flavour to it, but it drags... Factory Girl recreates brilliantly a style of folk music (which I cannot nail). It kind of grates in a way, although it’s admirably performed... I love Prodigal Son. Although I have never heard the original version, I have the impression by that special way Mick sings that it is also a purposefully faithful recreation... Dear Doctor is hilarious country spoof. Jigsaw Puzzle is just brilliant Stones writing (lyrics and music), but when you think about it, it has almost the same structure and feel (the way it is sung, how it builds up) than SftD. So I find it a bit tiring to listen to BOTH of these in a single play... I have nothing to criticize re. Stray Cat Blues and Sympathy.
Not that I have this thing that the Stones should always be rocking, heavy, or whatever (I hate Voodoo Lounge!). But with B’sB, I am left with the feeling that even with an album like TSMR, there is more of a band actually rocking on, more creative input (Brian’s? Bill’s?). B’sB sounds to me a bit like a Jagger/Richards duo thing (I know: with great accompaniment), like also parts of EoMS. It’s as if Keith was a bit stuck with B’sB, with Brian’s purported performing handicap, and no one else around to fill in, and himself not having yet the full sonic capacity (gear?) to really shine like he was probably yearning to by then...

listen again. it's their best album...period.

Something tells me that you weren't listening to the Stones when Beggars came out. It took them back to their roots and then some. It redefined who they were and who they would be through Exile. And, there weren't any other groups around at the time playing that 'raw', funky/bluesy roots music. So, it stood out from everything else that was on the market. In a way it was The Stones showing everyone, (one more time!), oh, so this is where it all comes form

(I forgot the flames

I almost forgot, the guitar solo(s) on SFD are the best Keith, (yes that's him) has ever done IMHO.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-26 21:40 by RankOutsider.

Odd-beat,

Agree with you a little bit that the album is over-rated. I think it's a great disc, but not quite up to LIB or EOMS. At the time of its release it was warmly received because it was such a return to the roots. No posturing or silly acid noodling. This fact, IMO, is why it's always been so highly regarded.

Have to disagree though about Keith not having his "sonic capacity". I think his playing is brilliant, and was a great expansion of sounds and genres for him. He had in the past been pretty much limited to Chuck Berry imitations and straight Chicago electric blues. On BB he journeys into folk blues, country, and hard rock. Everyone talks about the "Taylor albums", but 1968-73 was Keith at his peak also. So far as BB being a Jagger/Richard album, thank goodness!

The other real keys to making this an excellent album are Jimmy Miller and Nicky Hopkins. BB is (again MHO) the best-sounding album the Stones have released. And Nicky's piano was an absolutely essential part of Jigsaw Puzzle, SFTD, and No Expectations. What a great RnR player that guy was!

Karl

I´have always wondered whats so great about BB. If you listen carefully to Between To Buttons, it holds the same standard. The 'roots' feeling is much stronger on Aftermath & to some degrees more at LIB, SF & twice that on Exile. GHS is my favorite, but that´s because they - as I get it - are getting into the pop again. White people doing the blues is tough sh*t; works sometimes.

BB is my favorite Stones Album...a "desert island disc" for me. Keith at his peak as is the rest of the band sans Brian. I agree that it is the Stones at their roots. I look at it the same way I look at Aftermath because it's a "Stones" album of their roots music vs a bunch of covers on a Stones album.

I agree with RankOutsider that SFTD is Keith's best solo work...ever! SFM was a very clever song in it's pacing and the way the acoustic guitars are layered in. Stray Cat is one of my all-time favorite songs. The pacing, the noise, the rythm are outstanding. The guitar playing on Prodigal Son is also brilliant.

Nicky Hopkins makes this album complete. This is a disc that once you finish listening to it, you would to yourself, "what should I listen to next? What can top that?"

It is a very complete disc.

Keith of course is completely straight

Interesting PoVs.
RankOutsider, I was not even into music when it came out! And not only that, I have actually just listened to the full album for the first time in my life this year!!! For some reason, once I did got out of my short pants and into music, this album hadn't registered either with the music pals I hung out with, so no one ever lent it to me (whereas those same friends did turned me on to TSMR, LiB, Through the Past Darkly, etc.).
Hey I am glad they did it, and now that you mention it, it does stand out historically as a milestone of sorts. Maybe it will grow on me...

Baboon, come on Bro! BTB and BB are like two different bands! And while there are 'some' bluesy things on Aftermath, (5 out of 13 tunes), the majority are not. It's almost as if Aftermath were a turning point for the band, they could stay with their roots or go on to become pop/rock stars. They choose the latter, hense BTB being the result. Had they chosen the other course they could have gone straight to BB. Which is not only them doing more basic musical idioms, but, (and that is a huge BUT), mastering them for the first time. IMHO of course



I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-26 22:15 by RankOutsider.

RankOutsider said " --- And while there are 'some' bluesy things on Aftermath, (5 out of 13 tunes), the majority are not. --- ". I didnt say blues, I said roots; its as much an American country or country blues feeling I was aiming at. Unfortunately I havent the complete Their Satanic Majesties Request in my collection, so I cant go back to that one right one... But each song I´ve heard from that album.
...Still, the discussion on pop/blues is interesting: How great role played Jagger´s notorious hunting for hits and being 'in' in period ab. 1967-68?
...And I can change my mind tomorrow. I have a feeling though that some people raise BB to the skies without reflection

Nice site with lyrics to TSMR:
[www.rom.gr]

I feel the BTB was the Stones trying to be trendy. I can see how one might draw a parallel to BB because of the heavy acoustic guitars but I think that the Stones went way back to American roots vs. perhaps their own roots. They played country/bluegrass(Factory Girl and Dear Doctor) , Delta Blues (Parachute), Country Blues (Prodigal and No Expectations), folk (Jigsaw and Salt).Maybe they felt they didn't need a "hit" because of JJF being released as a single.

Keith of course is completely straight

You know what, I have never been impressed or moved by Keith’s guitar solo on SftD either (so I did had something to rant against that one too...) To me, it is just a blues lick, played too fast for the chops of the player, with that nervous feel that isn’t Keith really, grating sound like that small dentist drill everyone dreads, and a not too good sense of vibrato...

I love Keith as Chuck Berry wannabe...
I love Keith filling in loud psychedelic noise and lazy, sustained one-note solos (TSMR, WLY, SFM)...
I love Keith and the open-chord, electric wall of sound he invented as of HTW, then into the sonic Stones of the future...
But I just don’t like this fast, guitar-god type soloing of SftD I don’t think he was really cut for.

And also BTW, I do love the SFM single, but I just don’t see it fair to count both those songs as part of the album. ...But wait a minute, that was a genuine single after all, right? How long did it got released before BB ?

That's why I didn't use the term 'roots' because people make it mean whatever they want. I used the term 'bluesy' because those are the 'roots' that the Stones have drawn from in much of their work. Which, on 8 out of the 13 tunes on Aftermath is NOT the case. There is nothing 'rootsy' about them, they are, (for that period), contemporary pop/rock songs. To say that Aftermath is more or as 'rootsy' as BB is ludicrous.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

"To say that Aftermath is more or as 'rootsy' as BB is ludicrous."
- I could say the same about your opinion.
I find BB tame & pale at moments, too many moments.
Christ sake; compare it with Exile!!
More guts on Aftermath. It´s just opinions.

Beggar's really galvanized the Stones at the time. Jumping Jack Flash was a huge hit, and very important to the survival of the band itself. Beggar's was a testament to their staying power. Also don't forget that the Beatles at the time were really floundering (this was just before the release of Abbey Road...that is) Rumors of their iminent breakup were everywhere, and everyone assumed the Stones would implode as well.


the shoot 'em dead, brainbell jangler!

It's a great and very important album in the history of the band. After their psychedelic trip of "Satanic Majesties" which wasn't really their cup of tea they found their way back to their roots. It was like a new start for them which opened new doors, showed them their way to their absolute masterpieces in the following years. So I wouldn't say it's their very best album but for sure it's one of their best and definitely the most important album in their career.

Stray cat blues, sympathy for the devil and salt of the earth are extremily good songs. And then you got jumpin`jack flash that is the single to BB. In my opinion BB is not overrated. But I`m agree with those who think that Aftermath is underrated.

Baboon Bro, sorry man 'ludicrous' was over the top. I was having a 'Bitch' moment. I enjoy your enthusiasm for the Stones, and, reading your posts. I think Aftermath is a great album.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

Overated? I doubt it. Why don't you try to write an ablum as good as this.
Secondly, Aftermath is the best Stones album in my opinion.

Beggars is a true Stones masterpiece.
To say it's over-rated is to say you don't like the Stones of the late 60's !
Raunchy, bluesy, rock 'n roll.....

Esky

What is all this bullshit about Beggars being overrated?

Jeez if anyone of us had of written a track from Beggars we'd be up for induction into the rock & roll hall of fame!

Play it loud and enjoy... Stones Classic

ROCKMAN

right on rockman!!!!.....LUNAR HAS RETURNED!!! belch

STONES JAM!! MICKEYS RULES!!! (burp) NADER IN 2016!!!!! GO GIANTS!!

I've been a stones fan for 6 years, i know this sounds ridiculous but i never heard beggers banquet until this year... when i first got into the stones my girlfriend bought me the singles collection, so i owned every album from let it be on, once i realized i've heard everything a million times and decided to get BB i flipped out about how great the album is, its the only one of the big four i didnt have. Jigsaw puzzle is my favorite tune that i never heard... after reading this post i guess i am gonna have to get aftermath.

Havent heard alot of the other old sixties albums, but i think i gotta start saving up for the tour

Then I said Hi, like a spider to a fly...

Mickjagg65

Dont hesitate, go back as far as you can, for the pit of rewards is bottomless.

ROCKMAN

Everybody knows it's a great album, but you gotta remember the year:1968.
Like all the books say, everybody did get back to their roots
after all the flower-power stuff. Once the press and media, TV and movies got
into it, ther was only one way it could go. Also, Dylan's JWH and Basement Tapes
play a big role in all of this which cannot be understated. Marianne Faithfull
said that MJ was listeing to the Basement Tapes in early-mid '68, as
a great many musicians were. I think they were going forward and going back
at the same time. Some Girls, I think, was the sort of the same.
Hopefully, they'll do the same with this next record.

I agree with Rockman that we should give this thread a rest: BB is an incredibly nice piece of work & a sure masterpiece, one of the best albums in the whole darned world. But not - IMHO - one of the three best Stones-album. And you can´t praise the BB-album for the governorship of JJF-single, can you? You can praise the 1968-era; but I happen to be more delighted about 1966-67... The latter maybe because I fell in a huge jar of lsd while I was a little baby.

Rank, no hard feelings. You´ve probably seen I have my bitchy moments too.

But (completely off thew subject, but vey heavy & bluesy), still you all should go to [www.pmobil.hu], and (after scrolling sown to the 2nd last row, and see to the left: ) click A Négy Rocktenor-klip... And I promise you´ll never regret it!

Finally; my fav´s on BB (placed after the very taste of today) :
Salt Of The Earth
Sympathy...
Stray Cat Blues (at times at the top)
Parachute Man
Jig-Saw Puzzle
Comment: ......Street Fighting Man is a type of song that one (at least moi)
gets freaked out at start, totally devoted. But its easy to get
tired by it.

Hail! Hail! Beggar´s Banquet!

/BB on BB

Sympathy For The Devil
Street Fighting Man
Stray Cat Blues
Prodigal Son
Factory Girl
Salt Of The Earth

Records with that many excellent songs can't be overrated. There's only one song on the album I don't like; Jig Saw Puzzle (a bit boring...).

BTW, it's not Keith's solo that is so great on SFTD, it's the feel and choice of sound in a song with that kind of lyrics and vibe. The playing is mediocre at best, but the effect of it is enormous!

(BTW All of you that are into this "huuh-huu" choir groove thing* thats something fo the Stones´ signum; you should listenb to tsool, because they have almost build a whole world career on that... Still, on their last album, Origin they have returned a little bit to the older sound from the Union Carbide era).

* Which can be heard at Gimme Shelter, Sympathy... and Thru & Thru... And one or two of the tracks on GHS

Sympathy for the devil sets an amazingly high standard for this album - it's arguably the Stones best song ever!
This song, along with Gimme Shelter, are the Stones best opening tracks to any album they have done.
Beggars would have to be in the Stones top 5 albums of all time...easily.

Esky

<This song, along with Gimme Shelter, are the Stones best opening tracks to any album they have done.>

Along with:

Brown Sugar
Rocks Off
If You Can't Rock Me
Start Me Up
Dance (Pt.1)

Off of the newer albums, IMO Love Is Strong is a strong opener.

Weakest openers:

Sing This All Together
Yesterdays Papers
Flip The Switch

My top-14-(standard)album list to-day

GHS
Exile
LIB
SG
Aftermath
BB
Between The Buttons (...yesterday it was better than BB...)
Their Satanic Majesties request
SF
Tattoo You
------
Voodoo Lounge
Steel Wheels
------
all the others

My top-10 boots to-day
Palais Royale 2002 (note: Have still not heard Ya-Ya´s)

...[www.under-cover.net] all covers, all lyrics
(or [www.netaxs.com])



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-27 13:05 by Baboon Bro.