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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman


However, making songs ready to play live is the way to go. Still, the whiners will complain about the songs sounding generic on record, but so what - IORR!

A-ha, that very word belongs to your vocabulary as well. I hope everything's alright in the cheerleaders' section...

- Doxa

Everything's all right in the FAN section

You have never heard me criticise anything about the Stones, right?

Not much, unless there is Mick Taylor involved...

- Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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lem motlow

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flacnvinyl
Steel Wheels was butchered in post-production. We all love hearing the guys together in a room grooving together. Hold On To Your Hat is a great example of what went wrong. I do not have the recording handy (currently redoing my RAID server at home) but there is a great version of HOTYH where you can actually hear the rhythm guitar which SLAYS. Keith's fills are ok, but the rhythm drives it like crazy. The studio version puts snare and vocals up front with guitars in the background... ruins it.

The other hidden thing is that the main problem with the record is the drum sound. Charlie's snare sounds like a nail being driven by a hammer. Give me the sound off Emotional Rescue or Voodoo Lounge for Charlie ANYDAY! Steel Wheels gives us the thinnest and worst drum mix of any album aside from the early 60s material.

Guitars are no longer prominent. The production blends everything together. Sad Sad Sad is a great example... by far my favorite track on the record. The guitars are great but still too low in the mix and often very thin. If you have a decent stereo you can make some adjustments to bring out the hidden/buried guitars in the mix and tune them to the surround speakers. Dolby M (music) does this PERFECTLY. Great little guitar fills across the spectrum and just buried in the mix!!

FX - That is the main thing that destroys the vibe. I have thought many times that I would love for the Stones to do what the Beatles did with Let It Be... 'naked'. Get rid of the Spector stuff on it, and present the tracks as originally recorded. Steel Wheels without the 80s sheen could be a fantastic record. Heck, let Don Was at it but make him use a good mastering engineer who wont destroy the dynamic range.

EQ - It is just too bright and thin. Listen to She's So Cold, then listen to Mixed Emotions. The drum sound is most startling.. a decade later and they managed to RUIN the great sound the Stones had over in Parthe.

this is exactly what i was thinking,though you expressed it better than i ever could have.listening to these tracks really brought out something that i had been suspecting for years-the stones are the stones,its the production thats killing these latter day records.

i'm not saying they could've made let it bleed in the 80's but these records seem like they could've held up against maybe a goats head or an emotional rescue if they were recorded properly.
when you said "listen to she's so cold, then listen to mixed emotions" that was perfect.

people think i'm joking when i say i like dirty work,but its the same kind of thing.listen to the actual guitar playing on DW ,they are playing their asses off on that record.
at the time keith said dirty work "cooked just below the surface,its built for the road" -looking back,the production IS that surface.without it,it would've just cooked.
[-and you guys, spare me the "its micks vocals on DW,its the lyrics, it just sucks blah blah.i know its a badge of honor to outdo each other about not liking the record but its redundant at this point]

theres a thread about"should the stones make another record" -i've actually changed my mind about it-yes they should,just dont make it sound like it was recorded through the filter in my fishtank.

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treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

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lem motlow

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flacnvinyl
Steel Wheels was butchered in post-production. We all love hearing the guys together in a room grooving together. Hold On To Your Hat is a great example of what went wrong. I do not have the recording handy (currently redoing my RAID server at home) but there is a great version of HOTYH where you can actually hear the rhythm guitar which SLAYS. Keith's fills are ok, but the rhythm drives it like crazy. The studio version puts snare and vocals up front with guitars in the background... ruins it.

The other hidden thing is that the main problem with the record is the drum sound. Charlie's snare sounds like a nail being driven by a hammer. Give me the sound off Emotional Rescue or Voodoo Lounge for Charlie ANYDAY! Steel Wheels gives us the thinnest and worst drum mix of any album aside from the early 60s material.

Guitars are no longer prominent. The production blends everything together. Sad Sad Sad is a great example... by far my favorite track on the record. The guitars are great but still too low in the mix and often very thin. If you have a decent stereo you can make some adjustments to bring out the hidden/buried guitars in the mix and tune them to the surround speakers. Dolby M (music) does this PERFECTLY. Great little guitar fills across the spectrum and just buried in the mix!!

FX - That is the main thing that destroys the vibe. I have thought many times that I would love for the Stones to do what the Beatles did with Let It Be... 'naked'. Get rid of the Spector stuff on it, and present the tracks as originally recorded. Steel Wheels without the 80s sheen could be a fantastic record. Heck, let Don Was at it but make him use a good mastering engineer who wont destroy the dynamic range.

EQ - It is just too bright and thin. Listen to She's So Cold, then listen to Mixed Emotions. The drum sound is most startling.. a decade later and they managed to RUIN the great sound the Stones had over in Parthe.

this is exactly what i was thinking,though you expressed it better than i ever could have.listening to these tracks really brought out something that i had been suspecting for years-the stones are the stones,its the production thats killing these latter day records.

i'm not saying they could've made let it bleed in the 80's but these records seem like they could've held up against maybe a goats head or an emotional rescue if they were recorded properly.
when you said "listen to she's so cold, then listen to mixed emotions" that was perfect.

people think i'm joking when i say i like dirty work,but its the same kind of thing.listen to the actual guitar playing on DW ,they are playing their asses off on that record.
at the time keith said dirty work "cooked just below the surface,its built for the road" -looking back,the production IS that surface.without it,it would've just cooked.
[-and you guys, spare me the "its micks vocals on DW,its the lyrics, it just sucks blah blah.i know its a badge of honor to outdo each other about not liking the record but its redundant at this point]

theres a thread about"should the stones make another record" -i've actually changed my mind about it-yes they should,just dont make it sound like it was recorded through the filter in my fishtank.

I'd also like to see a new album, but to say Dirty Work is bad just because of the production is ridiculous. The writing is important, the lyrics are important, Mick's singing is important, the playing is important...in total they suck on this album. Saying the production would have improved it is like putting lipstick on a pig.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
lem motlow

Quote
flacnvinyl
Steel Wheels was butchered in post-production. We all love hearing the guys together in a room grooving together. Hold On To Your Hat is a great example of what went wrong. I do not have the recording handy (currently redoing my RAID server at home) but there is a great version of HOTYH where you can actually hear the rhythm guitar which SLAYS. Keith's fills are ok, but the rhythm drives it like crazy. The studio version puts snare and vocals up front with guitars in the background... ruins it.

The other hidden thing is that the main problem with the record is the drum sound. Charlie's snare sounds like a nail being driven by a hammer. Give me the sound off Emotional Rescue or Voodoo Lounge for Charlie ANYDAY! Steel Wheels gives us the thinnest and worst drum mix of any album aside from the early 60s material.

Guitars are no longer prominent. The production blends everything together. Sad Sad Sad is a great example... by far my favorite track on the record. The guitars are great but still too low in the mix and often very thin. If you have a decent stereo you can make some adjustments to bring out the hidden/buried guitars in the mix and tune them to the surround speakers. Dolby M (music) does this PERFECTLY. Great little guitar fills across the spectrum and just buried in the mix!!

FX - That is the main thing that destroys the vibe. I have thought many times that I would love for the Stones to do what the Beatles did with Let It Be... 'naked'. Get rid of the Spector stuff on it, and present the tracks as originally recorded. Steel Wheels without the 80s sheen could be a fantastic record. Heck, let Don Was at it but make him use a good mastering engineer who wont destroy the dynamic range.

EQ - It is just too bright and thin. Listen to She's So Cold, then listen to Mixed Emotions. The drum sound is most startling.. a decade later and they managed to RUIN the great sound the Stones had over in Parthe.

this is exactly what i was thinking,though you expressed it better than i ever could have.listening to these tracks really brought out something that i had been suspecting for years-the stones are the stones,its the production thats killing these latter day records.

i'm not saying they could've made let it bleed in the 80's but these records seem like they could've held up against maybe a goats head or an emotional rescue if they were recorded properly.
when you said "listen to she's so cold, then listen to mixed emotions" that was perfect.

people think i'm joking when i say i like dirty work,but its the same kind of thing.listen to the actual guitar playing on DW ,they are playing their asses off on that record.
at the time keith said dirty work "cooked just below the surface,its built for the road" -looking back,the production IS that surface.without it,it would've just cooked.
[-and you guys, spare me the "its micks vocals on DW,its the lyrics, it just sucks blah blah.i know its a badge of honor to outdo each other about not liking the record but its redundant at this point]

theres a thread about"should the stones make another record" -i've actually changed my mind about it-yes they should,just dont make it sound like it was recorded through the filter in my fishtank.

I'd also like to see a new album, but to say Dirty Work is bad just because of the production is ridiculous. The writing is important, the lyrics are important, Mick's singing is important, the playing is important...in total they suck on this album. Saying the production would have improved it is like putting lipstick on a pig.

I agree, but the playing on DW was probably just as good as what they'd done in the past.

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
lem motlow

Quote
flacnvinyl
Steel Wheels was butchered in post-production. We all love hearing the guys together in a room grooving together. Hold On To Your Hat is a great example of what went wrong. I do not have the recording handy (currently redoing my RAID server at home) but there is a great version of HOTYH where you can actually hear the rhythm guitar which SLAYS. Keith's fills are ok, but the rhythm drives it like crazy. The studio version puts snare and vocals up front with guitars in the background... ruins it.

The other hidden thing is that the main problem with the record is the drum sound. Charlie's snare sounds like a nail being driven by a hammer. Give me the sound off Emotional Rescue or Voodoo Lounge for Charlie ANYDAY! Steel Wheels gives us the thinnest and worst drum mix of any album aside from the early 60s material.

Guitars are no longer prominent. The production blends everything together. Sad Sad Sad is a great example... by far my favorite track on the record. The guitars are great but still too low in the mix and often very thin. If you have a decent stereo you can make some adjustments to bring out the hidden/buried guitars in the mix and tune them to the surround speakers. Dolby M (music) does this PERFECTLY. Great little guitar fills across the spectrum and just buried in the mix!!

FX - That is the main thing that destroys the vibe. I have thought many times that I would love for the Stones to do what the Beatles did with Let It Be... 'naked'. Get rid of the Spector stuff on it, and present the tracks as originally recorded. Steel Wheels without the 80s sheen could be a fantastic record. Heck, let Don Was at it but make him use a good mastering engineer who wont destroy the dynamic range.

EQ - It is just too bright and thin. Listen to She's So Cold, then listen to Mixed Emotions. The drum sound is most startling.. a decade later and they managed to RUIN the great sound the Stones had over in Parthe.

this is exactly what i was thinking,though you expressed it better than i ever could have.listening to these tracks really brought out something that i had been suspecting for years-the stones are the stones,its the production thats killing these latter day records.

i'm not saying they could've made let it bleed in the 80's but these records seem like they could've held up against maybe a goats head or an emotional rescue if they were recorded properly.
when you said "listen to she's so cold, then listen to mixed emotions" that was perfect.

people think i'm joking when i say i like dirty work,but its the same kind of thing.listen to the actual guitar playing on DW ,they are playing their asses off on that record.
at the time keith said dirty work "cooked just below the surface,its built for the road" -looking back,the production IS that surface.without it,it would've just cooked.
[-and you guys, spare me the "its micks vocals on DW,its the lyrics, it just sucks blah blah.i know its a badge of honor to outdo each other about not liking the record but its redundant at this point]

theres a thread about"should the stones make another record" -i've actually changed my mind about it-yes they should,just dont make it sound like it was recorded through the filter in my fishtank.

I'd also like to see a new album, but to say Dirty Work is bad just because of the production is ridiculous. The writing is important, the lyrics are important, Mick's singing is important, the playing is important...in total they suck on this album. Saying the production would have improved it is like putting lipstick on a pig.

I agree, but the playing on DW was probably just as good as what they'd done in the past.

one out of 5 ain't bad!

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
lem motlow

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flacnvinyl
Steel Wheels was butchered in post-production. We all love hearing the guys together in a room grooving together. Hold On To Your Hat is a great example of what went wrong. I do not have the recording handy (currently redoing my RAID server at home) but there is a great version of HOTYH where you can actually hear the rhythm guitar which SLAYS. Keith's fills are ok, but the rhythm drives it like crazy. The studio version puts snare and vocals up front with guitars in the background... ruins it.

The other hidden thing is that the main problem with the record is the drum sound. Charlie's snare sounds like a nail being driven by a hammer. Give me the sound off Emotional Rescue or Voodoo Lounge for Charlie ANYDAY! Steel Wheels gives us the thinnest and worst drum mix of any album aside from the early 60s material.

Guitars are no longer prominent. The production blends everything together. Sad Sad Sad is a great example... by far my favorite track on the record. The guitars are great but still too low in the mix and often very thin. If you have a decent stereo you can make some adjustments to bring out the hidden/buried guitars in the mix and tune them to the surround speakers. Dolby M (music) does this PERFECTLY. Great little guitar fills across the spectrum and just buried in the mix!!

FX - That is the main thing that destroys the vibe. I have thought many times that I would love for the Stones to do what the Beatles did with Let It Be... 'naked'. Get rid of the Spector stuff on it, and present the tracks as originally recorded. Steel Wheels without the 80s sheen could be a fantastic record. Heck, let Don Was at it but make him use a good mastering engineer who wont destroy the dynamic range.

EQ - It is just too bright and thin. Listen to She's So Cold, then listen to Mixed Emotions. The drum sound is most startling.. a decade later and they managed to RUIN the great sound the Stones had over in Parthe.

this is exactly what i was thinking,though you expressed it better than i ever could have.listening to these tracks really brought out something that i had been suspecting for years-the stones are the stones,its the production thats killing these latter day records.

i'm not saying they could've made let it bleed in the 80's but these records seem like they could've held up against maybe a goats head or an emotional rescue if they were recorded properly.
when you said "listen to she's so cold, then listen to mixed emotions" that was perfect.

people think i'm joking when i say i like dirty work,but its the same kind of thing.listen to the actual guitar playing on DW ,they are playing their asses off on that record.
at the time keith said dirty work "cooked just below the surface,its built for the road" -looking back,the production IS that surface.without it,it would've just cooked.
[-and you guys, spare me the "its micks vocals on DW,its the lyrics, it just sucks blah blah.i know its a badge of honor to outdo each other about not liking the record but its redundant at this point]

theres a thread about"should the stones make another record" -i've actually changed my mind about it-yes they should,just dont make it sound like it was recorded through the filter in my fishtank.

I'd also like to see a new album, but to say Dirty Work is bad just because of the production is ridiculous. The writing is important, the lyrics are important, Mick's singing is important, the playing is important...in total they suck on this album. Saying the production would have improved it is like putting lipstick on a pig.

I agree, but the playing on DW was probably just as good as what they'd done in the past.

one out of 5 ain't bad!

It's something...

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
lem motlow

Quote
flacnvinyl
Steel Wheels was butchered in post-production. We all love hearing the guys together in a room grooving together. Hold On To Your Hat is a great example of what went wrong. I do not have the recording handy (currently redoing my RAID server at home) but there is a great version of HOTYH where you can actually hear the rhythm guitar which SLAYS. Keith's fills are ok, but the rhythm drives it like crazy. The studio version puts snare and vocals up front with guitars in the background... ruins it.

The other hidden thing is that the main problem with the record is the drum sound. Charlie's snare sounds like a nail being driven by a hammer. Give me the sound off Emotional Rescue or Voodoo Lounge for Charlie ANYDAY! Steel Wheels gives us the thinnest and worst drum mix of any album aside from the early 60s material.

Guitars are no longer prominent. The production blends everything together. Sad Sad Sad is a great example... by far my favorite track on the record. The guitars are great but still too low in the mix and often very thin. If you have a decent stereo you can make some adjustments to bring out the hidden/buried guitars in the mix and tune them to the surround speakers. Dolby M (music) does this PERFECTLY. Great little guitar fills across the spectrum and just buried in the mix!!

FX - That is the main thing that destroys the vibe. I have thought many times that I would love for the Stones to do what the Beatles did with Let It Be... 'naked'. Get rid of the Spector stuff on it, and present the tracks as originally recorded. Steel Wheels without the 80s sheen could be a fantastic record. Heck, let Don Was at it but make him use a good mastering engineer who wont destroy the dynamic range.

EQ - It is just too bright and thin. Listen to She's So Cold, then listen to Mixed Emotions. The drum sound is most startling.. a decade later and they managed to RUIN the great sound the Stones had over in Parthe.

this is exactly what i was thinking,though you expressed it better than i ever could have.listening to these tracks really brought out something that i had been suspecting for years-the stones are the stones,its the production thats killing these latter day records.

i'm not saying they could've made let it bleed in the 80's but these records seem like they could've held up against maybe a goats head or an emotional rescue if they were recorded properly.
when you said "listen to she's so cold, then listen to mixed emotions" that was perfect.

people think i'm joking when i say i like dirty work,but its the same kind of thing.listen to the actual guitar playing on DW ,they are playing their asses off on that record.
at the time keith said dirty work "cooked just below the surface,its built for the road" -looking back,the production IS that surface.without it,it would've just cooked.
[-and you guys, spare me the "its micks vocals on DW,its the lyrics, it just sucks blah blah.i know its a badge of honor to outdo each other about not liking the record but its redundant at this point]

theres a thread about"should the stones make another record" -i've actually changed my mind about it-yes they should,just dont make it sound like it was recorded through the filter in my fishtank.

I'd also like to see a new album, but to say Dirty Work is bad just because of the production is ridiculous. The writing is important, the lyrics are important, Mick's singing is important, the playing is important...in total they suck on this album. Saying the production would have improved it is like putting lipstick on a pig.

I agree, but the playing on DW was probably just as good as what they'd done in the past.

one out of 5 ain't bad!

It's something...

Maybe they should have played on someone else's album from 1986?

JUST THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES!

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
lem motlow

Quote
flacnvinyl
Steel Wheels was butchered in post-production. We all love hearing the guys together in a room grooving together. Hold On To Your Hat is a great example of what went wrong. I do not have the recording handy (currently redoing my RAID server at home) but there is a great version of HOTYH where you can actually hear the rhythm guitar which SLAYS. Keith's fills are ok, but the rhythm drives it like crazy. The studio version puts snare and vocals up front with guitars in the background... ruins it.

The other hidden thing is that the main problem with the record is the drum sound. Charlie's snare sounds like a nail being driven by a hammer. Give me the sound off Emotional Rescue or Voodoo Lounge for Charlie ANYDAY! Steel Wheels gives us the thinnest and worst drum mix of any album aside from the early 60s material.

Guitars are no longer prominent. The production blends everything together. Sad Sad Sad is a great example... by far my favorite track on the record. The guitars are great but still too low in the mix and often very thin. If you have a decent stereo you can make some adjustments to bring out the hidden/buried guitars in the mix and tune them to the surround speakers. Dolby M (music) does this PERFECTLY. Great little guitar fills across the spectrum and just buried in the mix!!

FX - That is the main thing that destroys the vibe. I have thought many times that I would love for the Stones to do what the Beatles did with Let It Be... 'naked'. Get rid of the Spector stuff on it, and present the tracks as originally recorded. Steel Wheels without the 80s sheen could be a fantastic record. Heck, let Don Was at it but make him use a good mastering engineer who wont destroy the dynamic range.

EQ - It is just too bright and thin. Listen to She's So Cold, then listen to Mixed Emotions. The drum sound is most startling.. a decade later and they managed to RUIN the great sound the Stones had over in Parthe.

this is exactly what i was thinking,though you expressed it better than i ever could have.listening to these tracks really brought out something that i had been suspecting for years-the stones are the stones,its the production thats killing these latter day records.

i'm not saying they could've made let it bleed in the 80's but these records seem like they could've held up against maybe a goats head or an emotional rescue if they were recorded properly.
when you said "listen to she's so cold, then listen to mixed emotions" that was perfect.

people think i'm joking when i say i like dirty work,but its the same kind of thing.listen to the actual guitar playing on DW ,they are playing their asses off on that record.
at the time keith said dirty work "cooked just below the surface,its built for the road" -looking back,the production IS that surface.without it,it would've just cooked.
[-and you guys, spare me the "its micks vocals on DW,its the lyrics, it just sucks blah blah.i know its a badge of honor to outdo each other about not liking the record but its redundant at this point]

theres a thread about"should the stones make another record" -i've actually changed my mind about it-yes they should,just dont make it sound like it was recorded through the filter in my fishtank.

I'd also like to see a new album, but to say Dirty Work is bad just because of the production is ridiculous. The writing is important, the lyrics are important, Mick's singing is important, the playing is important...in total they suck on this album. Saying the production would have improved it is like putting lipstick on a pig.

I agree, but the playing on DW was probably just as good as what they'd done in the past.

one out of 5 ain't bad!

It's something...

Maybe they should have played on someone else's album from 1986?

JUST THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES!

Think Visual (1986)by The Kinks was a little light on guitars...

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Gazza

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GasLightStreet
When y'all ape about Continental Drift are you talking about the actual song or what the Master Musicians Of Joujouka did?

the song in general. Its probably the best thing theyve done post-Tattoo You.

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DandelionPowderman
He wasn't a contemporary producer in the musical sense. He was "contemporary" because he took the bands he worked with back to their roots and stripped them down. Listen to what he did with the Cult. Amazing!

Before Rubin:





With Rubin as the producer:

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GasLightStreet

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DandelionPowderman
He wasn't a contemporary producer in the musical sense. He was "contemporary" because he took the bands he worked with back to their roots and stripped them down. Listen to what he did with the Cult. Amazing!

Before Rubin:





With Rubin as the producer:

Then you know of Electric Ocean and how that changed. Although the first version of it is excellent without a doubt (and is essentially the closest thing they've ever done to imitiating Rain outright) the one on Peace is way too long and rambling. The Electric version is astounding.

Aphrodisiac Jacket didn't change a whole lot, possibly the only song from Peace to make the transisition to Electric without losing the most.

Wild Flower is almost a completely differnt song, although I like the bridge from the Peace version.

Rubin did a great job of stripping down that "pussy English music" as he put it.

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Erik_Snow

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NICOS
They sound much better to me than what they released on Steels Wheels

I bet Blinded By Love sound better in an even earlier stage.....before the song was ever written!