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Kurt
Wow...well done hopkins and thanks for that above ^^^^
At the risk of disappointing myself for chiming in on a THIRTEEN YEAR OLD[[/b]/b] thread, I will only add this...
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Ronnie Wood SAVED The Rolling Stones.
He is playing WONDERFULLY well today and I feel extremely lucky to still be a fan of his work.
The man has PEDIGREE.
A true Rock N' Roll Survivor.
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keithsmanQuote
Kurt
A true Rock N' Roll Survivor.
Good for you Ronnie,we love you, we forgive you, but i'm one of them that can't forget how absolutely terrible you was, and the fact that you can play so great now kind of makes it worse because now we know you weren't trying.
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KurtQuote
keithsmanQuote
Kurt
A true Rock N' Roll Survivor.
Good for you Ronnie,we love you, we forgive you, but i'm one of them that can't forget how absolutely terrible you was, and the fact that you can play so great now kind of makes it worse because now we know you weren't trying.
keithsman, I appreciate your opinion on this:
Do you really think he wasn't trying???
Addiction is a bitch. It's no excuse, but I tend to believe he was lost back then.
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PhillyFAN
RW was excellent in The Faces. I have seen them live three times and was very impressed. He does not have the opportunity to compose as he did in The Faces. RW wrote some beautiful songs and played beautifully as well.
If you listen to the Stones "Rough Justice" it sounds exactly like The Faces. I could tell RW fuzzy funky guitar from the opening cords.
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Chester
There is one thing that has not been mentioned in this thread, but is extremely important when it comes to Ronnie and the Stones: He looked the part.
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PhillyFAN
I still here Faces influence. Especially Rw slide work. Reminiscent of Stay with Me and Miss Judy's Farm. At least to my old ears. It's still a stellar song.
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DandelionPowderman
I'm just curious to know what the statement "Ronnie lacks a distinctive sound" is based on?
It's not an opinion. On the contrary, it's easy to prove that this statement is false - as it's very easy to spot Ronnie in a sound mix, no matter who he plays with.
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keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
I'm just curious to know what the statement "Ronnie lacks a distinctive sound" is based on?
It's not an opinion. On the contrary, it's easy to prove that this statement is false - as it's very easy to spot Ronnie in a sound mix, no matter who he plays with.
When I think of Pete Townshend,, BBK King, Hendrix Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Mark Knofler, Dave Davis, Carlos Santana, Keith Richards, Buddy Guy, Dave Gilmore etc their sound is distinctively theirs, in the 70s with the Stones and especially since the 90`s ai can't say that Ronnie has a distinctive sound other than on slide.
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keithsman
I have to scratch my head at all this Ronnie praise, he's just an average player who got very lucky.
There are a thousand like him, he doesn't really have any distinction as a player, don't get me wrong i love he and Keith's weaving and on occasion he pulls off some surprisingly good solo's, but someone like Waddy is far better in my opinion and gets more out of Keith too.
I wouldn't want to change anything , i'm happy Ronnie kept the band going all these years, as a personality he is irreplaceable, and he was great with the faces, that fun personality was perfect, but he is limited as a player, i think after Taylor left Keith didn't want the challenge anymore, he wanted a foil so he could look great without competition. It works and the boys are still playing, but honestly he's not really that good, he just plays in fits and starts, he fills in here and there but he's not a great player in his own right. Just a very lucky guy.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
I'm just curious to know what the statement "Ronnie lacks a distinctive sound" is based on?
It's not an opinion. On the contrary, it's easy to prove that this statement is false - as it's very easy to spot Ronnie in a sound mix, no matter who he plays with.
When I think of Pete Townshend,, BBK King, Hendrix Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Mark Knofler, Dave Davis, Carlos Santana, Keith Richards, Buddy Guy, Dave Gilmore etc their sound is distinctively theirs, in the 70s with the Stones and especially since the 90`s ai can't say that Ronnie has a distinctive sound other than on slide.
Who else could have done SG and ER? And name another guitar player who plays like that.
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Palace Revolution 2000Quote
keithsman
I have to scratch my head at all this Ronnie praise, he's just an average player who got very lucky.
There are a thousand like him, he doesn't really have any distinction as a player, don't get me wrong i love he and Keith's weaving and on occasion he pulls off some surprisingly good solo's, but someone like Waddy is far better in my opinion and gets more out of Keith too.
I wouldn't want to change anything , i'm happy Ronnie kept the band going all these years, as a personality he is irreplaceable, and he was great with the faces, that fun personality was perfect, but he is limited as a player, i think after Taylor left Keith didn't want the challenge anymore, he wanted a foil so he could look great without competition. It works and the boys are still playing, but honestly he's not really that good, he just plays in fits and starts, he fills in here and there but he's not a great player in his own right. Just a very lucky guy.
I can't agree with that statement keithman; I really do feel that has had his very own sound, and carved out a distinctive niche for himself. And that is why IMO the thread's original question still stands, 13 years or not: WTF happened? I can not really think of anyone else who put those very parts together, the way he did in the Faces. The influence from Bass, the Open D, the slide, and all that Anglo Country sense of melody - but played on a Zemaitis through a loud Ampeg with Lo EQ. Add to that was the type of songs they were playing - many written by Lane, and Stewart who all came from Britain heritage.
I have to conxcur that once he joined the Stones, he kind of lost most of all that. Lost his uniqueness. I think it just hit me: that is exactly what happened IMHO.
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Rip This
...well that didn't take long to devolve into a RW vs MT vs KR post.....wtf?....RW is a great addition to the Stones albeit undervalued, and certainly not used ( as in possibly stifled) enough....
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MartinB
For once, I personally think Ronnie is - both musically and personally - much better fit with the Stones and MT. He played great with Faces and equally great with Stones. It is not his fault that the quality of new material went down in later years.
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keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
I'm just curious to know what the statement "Ronnie lacks a distinctive sound" is based on?
It's not an opinion. On the contrary, it's easy to prove that this statement is false - as it's very easy to spot Ronnie in a sound mix, no matter who he plays with.
When I think of Pete Townshend,, BBK King, Hendrix Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Mark Knofler, Dave Davis, Carlos Santana, Keith Richards, Buddy Guy, Dave Gilmore etc their sound is distinctively theirs, in the 70s with the Stones and especially since the 90`s ai can't say that Ronnie has a distinctive sound other than on slide.
Who else could have done SG and ER? And name another guitar player who plays like that.
That really isn't much to boast about compared to Mick Taylors distinctive mark he made on better Stones album's.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
I'm just curious to know what the statement "Ronnie lacks a distinctive sound" is based on?
It's not an opinion. On the contrary, it's easy to prove that this statement is false - as it's very easy to spot Ronnie in a sound mix, no matter who he plays with.
When I think of Pete Townshend,, BBK King, Hendrix Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Mark Knofler, Dave Davis, Carlos Santana, Keith Richards, Buddy Guy, Dave Gilmore etc their sound is distinctively theirs, in the 70s with the Stones and especially since the 90`s ai can't say that Ronnie has a distinctive sound other than on slide.
Who else could have done SG and ER? And name another guitar player who plays like that.
That really isn't much to boast about compared to Mick Taylors distinctive mark he made on better Stones album's.
Seemingly, we have different interpretations of the word distinctive. For me that means easily recognisable, as opposed to yours: a style you fancy more than others.
Lou Reed was also a distinctive guitarist, just as John Lee Hooker was.
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keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
I'm just curious to know what the statement "Ronnie lacks a distinctive sound" is based on?
It's not an opinion. On the contrary, it's easy to prove that this statement is false - as it's very easy to spot Ronnie in a sound mix, no matter who he plays with.
When I think of Pete Townshend,, BBK King, Hendrix Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Mark Knofler, Dave Davis, Carlos Santana, Keith Richards, Buddy Guy, Dave Gilmore etc their sound is distinctively theirs, in the 70s with the Stones and especially since the 90`s ai can't say that Ronnie has a distinctive sound other than on slide.
Who else could have done SG and ER? And name another guitar player who plays like that.
That really isn't much to boast about compared to Mick Taylors distinctive mark he made on better Stones album's.
Seemingly, we have different interpretations of the word distinctive. For me that means easily recognisable, as opposed to yours: a style you fancy more than others.
Lou Reed was also a distinctive guitarist, just as John Lee Hooker was.
I think the argument you are trying to make (and you are winning ) is that Ronnie is a distinctively average player when compared to the guitarists i mentioned above.
Lou Reed doesn't come in anyone's top 50 guitarists compilations, and neither does Ronnie.
I'm measuring distinction as greatness and instantly recognizable within that distinctive sound created by the guitarist.
Notice Keith always comes in the top 5 of best players, because those riffs are distinctive to a lot of people . Keith may not be technically as good as Ronnie but Keith's guitar has a much more distinctive sound to the average ear. How is distinctiveness measured from a guitar ? by the sound that individual makes with his guitar, people like Jeff Beck, Angus or Slash are distinctive, they have a sound that is unique to them and is experienced by the listener as instantly recognizable.
Hope this helps to answer your question.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
I'm just curious to know what the statement "Ronnie lacks a distinctive sound" is based on?
It's not an opinion. On the contrary, it's easy to prove that this statement is false - as it's very easy to spot Ronnie in a sound mix, no matter who he plays with.
When I think of Pete Townshend,, BBK King, Hendrix Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Mark Knofler, Dave Davis, Carlos Santana, Keith Richards, Buddy Guy, Dave Gilmore etc their sound is distinctively theirs, in the 70s with the Stones and especially since the 90`s ai can't say that Ronnie has a distinctive sound other than on slide.
Who else could have done SG and ER? And name another guitar player who plays like that.
That really isn't much to boast about compared to Mick Taylors distinctive mark he made on better Stones album's.
Seemingly, we have different interpretations of the word distinctive. For me that means easily recognisable, as opposed to yours: a style you fancy more than others.
Lou Reed was also a distinctive guitarist, just as John Lee Hooker was.
I think the argument you are trying to make (and you are winning ) is that Ronnie is a distinctively average player when compared to the guitarists i mentioned above.
Lou Reed doesn't come in anyone's top 50 guitarists compilations, and neither does Ronnie.
I'm measuring distinction as greatness and instantly recognizable within that distinctive sound created by the guitarist.
Notice Keith always comes in the top 5 of best players, because those riffs are distinctive to a lot of people . Keith may not be technically as good as Ronnie but Keith's guitar has a much more distinctive sound to the average ear. How is distinctiveness measured from a guitar ? by the sound that individual makes with his guitar, people like Jeff Beck, Angus or Slash are distinctive, they have a sound that is unique to them and is experienced by the listener as instantly recognizable.
Hope this helps to answer your question.
Firstly, distinct can never be average. If you stick out you are distinctive per definition.
Secondly, I have never heard anyone play like Ronnie did on the old Faces classics, Hey Negrita, Dance or the other songs he wrote - have you?
So, the element of what you perceive as greatness doesn't really have anything to do with distinctness - it's merely your subjective musical taste
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keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
I'm just curious to know what the statement "Ronnie lacks a distinctive sound" is based on?
It's not an opinion. On the contrary, it's easy to prove that this statement is false - as it's very easy to spot Ronnie in a sound mix, no matter who he plays with.
When I think of Pete Townshend,, BBK King, Hendrix Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Mark Knofler, Dave Davis, Carlos Santana, Keith Richards, Buddy Guy, Dave Gilmore etc their sound is distinctively theirs, in the 70s with the Stones and especially since the 90`s ai can't say that Ronnie has a distinctive sound other than on slide.
Who else could have done SG and ER? And name another guitar player who plays like that.
That really isn't much to boast about compared to Mick Taylors distinctive mark he made on better Stones album's.
Seemingly, we have different interpretations of the word distinctive. For me that means easily recognisable, as opposed to yours: a style you fancy more than others.
Lou Reed was also a distinctive guitarist, just as John Lee Hooker was.
I think the argument you are trying to make (and you are winning ) is that Ronnie is a distinctively average player when compared to the guitarists i mentioned above.
Lou Reed doesn't come in anyone's top 50 guitarists compilations, and neither does Ronnie.
I'm measuring distinction as greatness and instantly recognizable within that distinctive sound created by the guitarist.
Notice Keith always comes in the top 5 of best players, because those riffs are distinctive to a lot of people . Keith may not be technically as good as Ronnie but Keith's guitar has a much more distinctive sound to the average ear. How is distinctiveness measured from a guitar ? by the sound that individual makes with his guitar, people like Jeff Beck, Angus or Slash are distinctive, they have a sound that is unique to them and is experienced by the listener as instantly recognizable.
Hope this helps to answer your question.
Firstly, distinct can never be average. If you stick out you are distinctive per definition.
Secondly, I have never heard anyone play like Ronnie did on the old Faces classics, Hey Negrita, Dance or the other songs he wrote - have you?
So, the element of what you perceive as greatness doesn't really have anything to do with distinctness - it's merely your subjective musical taste
If you say so DP , who am i to disagree with an iorr legend
In all seriousness though, i think it's because i don't rate Hey Negrita, Dance or ER as particularly great Stones tracks, i like them, i really like Slave BTW, but those Ronnie funky things don't do it for me.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
I'm just curious to know what the statement "Ronnie lacks a distinctive sound" is based on?
It's not an opinion. On the contrary, it's easy to prove that this statement is false - as it's very easy to spot Ronnie in a sound mix, no matter who he plays with.
When I think of Pete Townshend,, BBK King, Hendrix Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Mark Knofler, Dave Davis, Carlos Santana, Keith Richards, Buddy Guy, Dave Gilmore etc their sound is distinctively theirs, in the 70s with the Stones and especially since the 90`s ai can't say that Ronnie has a distinctive sound other than on slide.
Who else could have done SG and ER? And name another guitar player who plays like that.
That really isn't much to boast about compared to Mick Taylors distinctive mark he made on better Stones album's.
Seemingly, we have different interpretations of the word distinctive. For me that means easily recognisable, as opposed to yours: a style you fancy more than others.
Lou Reed was also a distinctive guitarist, just as John Lee Hooker was.
I think the argument you are trying to make (and you are winning ) is that Ronnie is a distinctively average player when compared to the guitarists i mentioned above.
Lou Reed doesn't come in anyone's top 50 guitarists compilations, and neither does Ronnie.
I'm measuring distinction as greatness and instantly recognizable within that distinctive sound created by the guitarist.
Notice Keith always comes in the top 5 of best players, because those riffs are distinctive to a lot of people . Keith may not be technically as good as Ronnie but Keith's guitar has a much more distinctive sound to the average ear. How is distinctiveness measured from a guitar ? by the sound that individual makes with his guitar, people like Jeff Beck, Angus or Slash are distinctive, they have a sound that is unique to them and is experienced by the listener as instantly recognizable.
Hope this helps to answer your question.
Firstly, distinct can never be average. If you stick out you are distinctive per definition.
Secondly, I have never heard anyone play like Ronnie did on the old Faces classics, Hey Negrita, Dance or the other songs he wrote - have you?
So, the element of what you perceive as greatness doesn't really have anything to do with distinctness - it's merely your subjective musical taste
If you say so DP , who am i to disagree with an iorr legend
In all seriousness though, i think it's because i don't rate Hey Negrita, Dance or ER as particularly great Stones tracks, i like them, i really like Slave BTW, but those Ronnie funky things don't do it for me.
How we rate things will always be subjective, and who am I to tell you what's great or not?
However, I thought we were discussing a distinctive style here, which is another matter, hence the point I tried to make.
PS: They wiped Ronnie from Slave, so I assume you're talking about the outtake he's on? I like that version very much, too
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keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
keithsmanQuote
DandelionPowderman
I'm just curious to know what the statement "Ronnie lacks a distinctive sound" is based on?
It's not an opinion. On the contrary, it's easy to prove that this statement is false - as it's very easy to spot Ronnie in a sound mix, no matter who he plays with.
When I think of Pete Townshend,, BBK King, Hendrix Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Mark Knofler, Dave Davis, Carlos Santana, Keith Richards, Buddy Guy, Dave Gilmore etc their sound is distinctively theirs, in the 70s with the Stones and especially since the 90`s ai can't say that Ronnie has a distinctive sound other than on slide.
Who else could have done SG and ER? And name another guitar player who plays like that.
That really isn't much to boast about compared to Mick Taylors distinctive mark he made on better Stones album's.
Seemingly, we have different interpretations of the word distinctive. For me that means easily recognisable, as opposed to yours: a style you fancy more than others.
Lou Reed was also a distinctive guitarist, just as John Lee Hooker was.
I think the argument you are trying to make (and you are winning ) is that Ronnie is a distinctively average player when compared to the guitarists i mentioned above.
Lou Reed doesn't come in anyone's top 50 guitarists compilations, and neither does Ronnie.
I'm measuring distinction as greatness and instantly recognizable within that distinctive sound created by the guitarist.
Notice Keith always comes in the top 5 of best players, because those riffs are distinctive to a lot of people . Keith may not be technically as good as Ronnie but Keith's guitar has a much more distinctive sound to the average ear. How is distinctiveness measured from a guitar ? by the sound that individual makes with his guitar, people like Jeff Beck, Angus or Slash are distinctive, they have a sound that is unique to them and is experienced by the listener as instantly recognizable.
Hope this helps to answer your question.
Firstly, distinct can never be average. If you stick out you are distinctive per definition.
Secondly, I have never heard anyone play like Ronnie did on the old Faces classics, Hey Negrita, Dance or the other songs he wrote - have you?
So, the element of what you perceive as greatness doesn't really have anything to do with distinctness - it's merely your subjective musical taste
If you say so DP , who am i to disagree with an iorr legend
In all seriousness though, i think it's because i don't rate Hey Negrita, Dance or ER as particularly great Stones tracks, i like them, i really like Slave BTW, but those Ronnie funky things don't do it for me.
How we rate things will always be subjective, and who am I to tell you what's great or not?
However, I thought we were discussing a distinctive style here, which is another matter, hence the point I tried to make.
PS: They wiped Ronnie from Slave, so I assume you're talking about the outtake he's on? I like that version very much, too
I suppose some guitarists are just more instantly recognizable, to me the tracks that Ronnie is very recognizable on don't appeal to me that much, so in that sense i am being bias against him when it comes to distinction.
What i love about Ronnie (regardless of where he comes in at as best guitarists ever), is his musicianship with Keith, i love their interlocking playing, weaving, whatever people want to call it. I also love watching those two on stage, everything about that stage presence they have, whether its getting into a grove in each others faces or fooling around, its just unique between them.
Keith was asked by the English presenter Chris Evens , " who is the best guitarist between you and Ron," Keith says "On our own we are pretty lousy, but together we're better than ten others" That just about sums it up for me.
Yes i love Slave from the Black And Blue sessions Keith sounds great on that too, more grungy
I was unaware that Ronnie had been wiped from Slave, what was the reason for that i wonder.
I don't actually hear Ronnie in the outtake , he sounds like keith lol.