Tell Me :
Talk
I congratulate them on coming up with what appears to be a minor hit, though it will likely be a sizable hit in the Euro markets, where their singles always do well. This track just doesn't have the qualities that I've always liked in Stones songs. My first exposure to Stones songs was in a late 70s TV commercial for a greatest hits package (probably Hot Rocks), and in each song clip that was played the chorus/hook was featured, and I remember thinking, nice catchy melody, I like that. Their song hooks were always a favorite feature with me, because they were uniquely their own, Jagger's enunciation and vocal inflections and all that. Also, their musical passages had clever, unique hooks that would stick in your mind. D&G has none of these qualities, just a lackluster flat chord riff that sounds almost cliched in its uninventiveness, along with the total absence of a chorus hook that renders the heavily loaded verses of lyrics as forgettable, and they quickly fade from my mind like sand slipping through my fingers. I've given D&G 4 and a half listens thus far and each time the effect is the same: nothing memorable sticks out in my memory of the song.
The Old Grey Whistle Test comes to mind, the title of which comes from when in the 60s programmers would play a new song for the old grey-haired doormen. If it was catchy enough and you could get the old greys to whistle the tune after a single listen, then you likely had a hit on your hands. You can't whistle a tune like D&G, because there is no tune, you can't even hum along. Maybe you can dance to it, but that limits the context in which you would be listening to it--for exercise, rather than for mere pleasure.
Hot Stuff from the Black and Blue album has the same effect for me, just a flat groove that goes nowhere in its repetitiveness, just Mick the neophile pandering to the then-trendy disco market--now Hand Of Fate, on the other hand, is a totally different matter, that's got to be a Keith song. HOF has all the Stones-like qualities I mentioned above. So, perhaps, One Last Shot might go over better with me, because it surely won't be a self-conscious attempt at luring in the Generation Wi-Fi market, but I won't be repurchasing 48 re-remastered tracks I already repurchased 3 years ago just to be a completist and own the latest production console tinkerings. I'll just be interested in giving a new Keith song a listen, whereas I'm about as likely to give D&G another listen as I am Dogsh*t in the Doorway...or something.
My point (which I have made a few times) was not that there is only one kind of Stones song or sound, or that there should be. It was rather that they (or Mick) seemed to be trying to hit that certain "open G classic Stones sound" (or whatever you prefer to call it) but they missed the mark because some of the necessary ingredients of that sound are missing. Now, you may disagree with me about this, but at least let's have a disagreement on the point I was making, rather than on one I didn't make.
EDIT to add it says available 10/16
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-14 23:35 by tumblingdice.
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....doom and gloom indeed....when the Stones play this one live to 60,000 fans you'll be changing your tune when it absolutely rips the roof apart and everyone's bopping and dancing......this is their best groove in a long @#$%& time....good for them!
Now, now, let's not resort to that sort of patronising attitude. You can't expect everyone to like it as you do. I won't be "changing my tune" either, as I know what I like and what I don't like. D&G just doesn't move me for the very reasons I stated above. I'll look forward to hearing One Last Shot instead--no doubt to be accompanied by at least a dozen fresh IORR Keith-bashing threads...
There was nothing fretful, distressed, or pained about my post, therefore no "whine" as you incorrectly interpreted my comments--just a difference of opinion is all, a simple matter of taste. There seems to be no tolerance here for those who don't like this new song--everyone must like it, or else. It just proves that the biggest Stones fanatics are also the most reactionary. This "if you don't like this new song, there must be something wrong with you, and you can't be a part of our club" mentality is rather amusing, almost like being back in school. In fact, it borders on hilarity, this putting other posters down because they don't like a new 3-minute pop-dance number, like your approval of it is the gospel. Around here, it's beginning to feel like a badge of honor not to like this song. Still looking forward to the dozen or so Keith-bashing threads to accompany the release of One Last Shot, which I am looking forward to [that is, the song, not the inevitable Keith-bashing threads]. I'll bet a new Keith song will sound more Stones-like than a glorified Mick solo song such as D&G. Looking forward to locking horns with you D&G folk on that topic next month when One Last Shot becomes available to the public.
I'd disagree with that...he seemd to have a hoot with SH, and did a great job with the exile and some girls projects. I'd have to think that along with this, he's having a great time!
Exactly. Like I said Jagger sounds more relaxed here. Actually I think for a long time, Jagger sounds like being full-committed, and using the Stones as teh medium of his real artistic expression. Not only "okay, this is 'just' a Stones cut, let's make it sound it people think its supposed to sound", but that of "yeah, this is fun! Let's try something!". There is a huge difference there. To my ears it could be that it is the very first time since "Undercover of The Night" and "Emotional Rescue" Jagger sounds mentally present there, giving his all.
The comparison to GODDESS is fair in that sense that Jagger is also totally committed there, but unfair in that sense that the result here is radically different - and better - since the templete is more natural for Jagger to actually shine here. The guy is 'home' again.
The boss is back - which makes me wonder: why on earth it has been so difficult for him to do it properly all these yaers? Was the Keith-problem such a big issue, or were the archive projects so eye-openning for him, that he found the real Rolling Stone muse in himself again? Or is that knowing the end being so near, he suddenly got inspired?
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 12:19 by Doxa.
Good point!
However, it might be that Mick, instead of trying to get the band on the road again in 2009 or 2010, simply thought that the anniversary is on soon, and that it might be wise to put all the energy in that?
Actually I am thinking in a larger scale. This is the fisrt time since starting his solo career, he seems to be focused on Stones full-heart.
I am so extited at the moment that not only dying to hear "One Last Shot", I hope that the upcoming shows go alright, and Richards gathers his solo stuff he has recorded for ages on the table, and let's Jagger finish them, and then Jagger collecting the 'blues' stuff he said to have recorded with Charlie last year, plus writing some new songs, and then forces the band to record the material after the London/NYC dates, and the tour/shows of next year are backed up with a new album!
The little fan boy in me is romantical now, but I honestly think they could come up something worthwhile now!
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 12:48 by Doxa.
When listening to the Voodoo Brew/Stew/Residue you'll probably agree with me that Jagger was 100 percent into the Stones in 1993 as well. So many fantastic outtakes, brilliantly performed - several albums worth of material!
I think he tossed his ideas about breaking as a solo star after Primitive Cool. The solo albums he made later on were fun, and stuff he could do when he had the time. Or else he would have toured, imo.
I'm also very exited about One MORE Shot, and simply can't wait
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 12:54 by DandelionPowderman.
Still not showing up on Amazon UK but I guess it will at some stage.
Many thanks!
It's not October 16 yet!
Well, Doxa, now you have made me at the end of the following sketch what I have thought I once should write :
Maybe Mick's experience and inspiration from working within the "Superheavy" prosject, combined with, as you mention, Doxa, inspiration from working with "the archive projects, have coworked in bringing about a renewed interest and even more important a belief in the Rolling Stones as a vehicle to make new music that counts more. Possibly much helped if, I repeate, if a better understanding with Keith has been achieved in both directions. And last, but not least, a hope of again being met with interest for new material, instead of it being neglected by surroundings only interested in their old material and greatest hits from the past.
The last point would point to an alternative explanation of said lazyness and supposed Las Vegas spirit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 13:08 by Witness.
I'm not so sure of Jagger's commitment in VOODOO LOUNGE. Yeah, there are some nice jams and grooves and sketches going on in those sessions - it is probably closest to 'classical' Pathe Marconi era sessions during the 'modern age' - but where the hell are the good songs? I don't buy the argument of Don Was @#$%& up VOODOO LOUNGE, namely full-committed Jagger wouldn't have let that happen. Instead he comes up some of his worst lyrics ever, half-baked 'by-the-numbers' songs, and the focused guy present in WANDERING SPIRIT is is replaced by this lazy icon doing the minimal.
I suppose Jagger had fun with the 'boys' in the studio, but I don't hear there an inspired mastermind. In Pathe Marconi there was.
- Doxa
Contrary to the Pathe Marconi-tapes, these cuts sound like finished songs to me - only the lead vocals aren't recorded...
Certainly not grooves and jams. Have a listen again
And I don't agree in your criticism of VL. It's not my favourite, but I don't think it sounds like the Stones tried to go Exile rock retro either - that's a myth, first created by Don Was, then bought by some fans - and ultimately regarded as the truth. Musically, it doesn't hold up, imo.
When we take a closer look at VL it actually picks up where Main Offender left sound-wise - that is a digitally-sounding version of the Stones (production-wise), which was at the time modern.
But most importantly, it covers a wide range of musical styles: The Lady Jane-ish New faces, the Tex/Mex in Sweethearts, the irish country pearl The Worst, the rockers: Sweet Disposition, LIS, YGMR, SWF and IGW, the funky Jugular (horrible, though) and so on...
That vast presentation of different music, played with the band's signature sound tells me that they were in a very productive period, and that is indeed confirmed by the excellent Voodoo Brew-boxset.
I think Mick and Keith had a good period as well as a team round this time. When was the last time they were singing in the same mike in the studio prior to this?
In hindsight, it's easy to diss VL, because it didn't quite hold up quality-wise, or more precisely as a collection of songs.
However, those sessions might be the best the Stones have had since the SG-sessions.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 13:35 by DandelionPowderman.
if your post is directed at me I think it's misdirected....however I find it amusing that you don't see how patronizing your posts are (and that's just one perspective).....that's what I reacted to....don't like the tune?....that's your choice..that's cool...I don't take issue with that...it's what you wrote.
Yes, there could be many 'reasons' for Jagger coming terms with his "Rolling Stone" essence, and to add your points I could also think of, for example, the recent recognition of his iconic status ("Move Like Jagger", "Swagger Jagger"), and then his rather well-received (I think) part in that "Harder" thing (can't recall the exact title anymore). Then we have his other well-recieved performances at the Grammys, White House and SNL. The focus Jagger had, for example, doing basic blues at Obama's party was a pleasing surprise for me, and made me thinking he has come terms with his own musical past (which goes along with the archieves project). This all might work for Jagger finding a 'point' in new Stones projects as well. I also think that the terrible urge to charm the kids by being so damn contemparary as possible has been fading a bit. He doesn't seem to 'prove' so damn hard.
But then there is the "Keith-issue". Really can't say anything of what happening in that front - behind the screen - but I wouldn't be surprised if that new sober and post-LIFE humble Keith might not be so hard to cope with than the tough-minded drunken conservative in the past. Probably it is easier now to offer and try new ideas.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 13:48 by Doxa.
Okay, I promise to re-listen that stuff soon...
But what goes for the reputation of VOODOO LOUNGE being "too retro", I think the authority in question was no one else than Mick Jagger putting that on words (1995 ROLLING STONE interview, I think). And I think he was right there.
I can see the point of doing different musical styles, but in VOODOO LOUNGE that is 'going through the motions': The Stones covering themselves of trying different styles they have already done in the past. I remeber reading one review stating that it is like 'greatest hits' album, only that of the originals replaced by a new, weaker songs. By contrast, WANDERING SPIRIT has the same idea of covering different musical styles, but there the result sounds authentic and original - Jagger interpreting certain gener directly - whereas in VOODOO LOUNGE it is The Stones copying their already established versions of certain genres. They end up like copying themselves, and I don't hear there real inspiration. They have done all that better in past.
Personally, VOODOO LOUNGE was the album I fed up with the Stones (of which I am recovering with "Doom and Gloom" as far as the new stuff goes); I thought - and still do - they are going cheap, taking teh easy route. That charming, but a bit corny duet of Mick and Keith in "Sweetherts Together" is like as a studio version of "Faraway Eyes" in SHINE A LIGHT.
All together, to me VOODOO LOUNGE is a quintessentiial Vegas era album, and mostly that is not a good thing (surprise surprise). To me it represents pretty much that the muse has left the building, and they are not really going anywhere any longer. As any 'Vegas show' I think the album has a function of giving a rather faithfull represenation what the music of The Rolling Stones is like, and that might gather some new listeners and fans (as it still good music). But it is not original in any sense of the word.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 14:29 by Doxa.
+ 1
I think the only similar things between VL and Exile is:
- Variety
- The double album-format
VL is not more retro than, say, Steel Wheels or other albums (Big exception: B2
.
Mick saying it's too retro means nothing really. At that time, he would probably have preferred more dancable tracks, coming off the great success with Sweet Thing.
Don Was branding the album as the REAL new Exile, however, wore off to many fans and reporters - gradually it became "the truth" that the Stones tried to re-create Exile.
Musically, it's an insane comparison, imo. Trying to make a varied rock album doesn't have to be retro or covering yourself. And not succeeding with the quality of your material doesn't have to be benchmark whether that's true or not, imo.
They tried to make a good double album, but didn't quite succeed, imo. That's it.
Yet that would be spot on by media terms. Because haven't they all? Oh wait, there was one that was hailed 'best since Some Girls'. Well, like, you know, whateverrrrr. Same thing.
Actually I haven't thought VOODOO LOUNGE ever as a EXILE replica, even though there is that 'let's do different genres' mentality in both. They are just so far from each other: EXILE goes damn deep and original in studying different American musical genres inspiring, and having inspired them, but VOODOO LOUNGE rips off just different styles the band has tried along the years, even "Lady Jane" having a modern reading. They are not inspired by the originals (blues, country, gospel, soul, etc.) but just like "hey, remember when we did this and that, let's try that again". So instead of listening some Muddy, Otis, Hank Williams or whatever records, they sound like have listened their own old records to get the 'inspiration'.
STEEL WHEELS also have a part of that (like any Vegas era album) I admit but it still not so obvious yet.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 15:44 by Doxa.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
stonesnow
()
Date: October 14, 2012 22:53
Quote
71Tele
It is interesting that a lot of non-Stones fans seem to like the track. I guess that's good. or they have low standards...or something.
I congratulate them on coming up with what appears to be a minor hit, though it will likely be a sizable hit in the Euro markets, where their singles always do well. This track just doesn't have the qualities that I've always liked in Stones songs. My first exposure to Stones songs was in a late 70s TV commercial for a greatest hits package (probably Hot Rocks), and in each song clip that was played the chorus/hook was featured, and I remember thinking, nice catchy melody, I like that. Their song hooks were always a favorite feature with me, because they were uniquely their own, Jagger's enunciation and vocal inflections and all that. Also, their musical passages had clever, unique hooks that would stick in your mind. D&G has none of these qualities, just a lackluster flat chord riff that sounds almost cliched in its uninventiveness, along with the total absence of a chorus hook that renders the heavily loaded verses of lyrics as forgettable, and they quickly fade from my mind like sand slipping through my fingers. I've given D&G 4 and a half listens thus far and each time the effect is the same: nothing memorable sticks out in my memory of the song.
The Old Grey Whistle Test comes to mind, the title of which comes from when in the 60s programmers would play a new song for the old grey-haired doormen. If it was catchy enough and you could get the old greys to whistle the tune after a single listen, then you likely had a hit on your hands. You can't whistle a tune like D&G, because there is no tune, you can't even hum along. Maybe you can dance to it, but that limits the context in which you would be listening to it--for exercise, rather than for mere pleasure.
Hot Stuff from the Black and Blue album has the same effect for me, just a flat groove that goes nowhere in its repetitiveness, just Mick the neophile pandering to the then-trendy disco market--now Hand Of Fate, on the other hand, is a totally different matter, that's got to be a Keith song. HOF has all the Stones-like qualities I mentioned above. So, perhaps, One Last Shot might go over better with me, because it surely won't be a self-conscious attempt at luring in the Generation Wi-Fi market, but I won't be repurchasing 48 re-remastered tracks I already repurchased 3 years ago just to be a completist and own the latest production console tinkerings. I'll just be interested in giving a new Keith song a listen, whereas I'm about as likely to give D&G another listen as I am Dogsh*t in the Doorway...or something.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
rebelrebel
()
Date: October 14, 2012 22:53
Any word on when it's going to be available on Amazon? I'd happily download it but I won't have iTunes software on my PC, it's way too intrusive. I'm not buying GRRR in any format for two tracks either.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: October 14, 2012 23:11
Quote
Witness
Possibly lower standards, but then of what? Or, possibly, with rather fewer prefixed ideas of what a Rolling Stones record should be like?Quote
71TeleQuote
GazzaQuote
71Tele
OK, I listened to it some more and I like it better. Still sounds more like a solo Jagger track than a Stones song to me though.
There are dozens of very good Stones songs which dont sound like 'Stones songs' or where the collaboration between Jagger and Richards is minimal or even non existent. or where Charlie isnt that prominent.
The only thing that matters is whether it's an enjoyable song or not. And it is. The end always justifies the means.
I really dont see why people get wound up and over-analytical about the dynamics over who is too prominent and who isnt heard loudly enough. The fact is that for decades Mick and Keith have not been a songwriting unit in the true sense of the word. In this day and age and with technology being what it is, its quite obvious that when a band sets aside just four days or so to record two songs that whoever wrote the song is going to have already done a sizeable amount of work on it in their home studio and that full band involvement is going to be comparatively minimal. I'd expect 'One More Shot' to be the same, only that it would have more of Keith as he wrote it.
The days of Andrew Oldham locking them in a room and making them bash out a song together are long gone.
Yes, I know this and mostly agree, Gazza.
However...when even the basic formula (songwriting quality aside) of open-G guitar(s), Charlie's drumming, and Mick's singing is attempted and left wanting it does beg the question of how many elements can you take away from the Stones classic sound and still have a credible Rolling Stones track? If they were going for something different and unique here (say, a "Winter", or a dance tune, for example), complaints about it not sounding like the Stones formula would of course be silly. However, when they are clearly going for the "classic" fundamental template, and the guitars and drums sound more "hard rock" than Stones, it seems a crticism on that basis is legitimate. Doesn't mean the song is terrible, just that it really does sound much more like a Jagger track trying to pass itself off as a Stones track.
Well, 71 Tele, I am no musician and cannot argue on that basis.
I doubt, however, that is is established beyond interpretation of the effect that the elements that you mentionned, when you write
«when even the basic formula (songwriting quality aside) of open-G guitar(s), Charlie's drumming, and Mick's singing is attempted and left wanting»
really necessarily are left wanting. And when you refer to the judgement that especially the album version has a «hard rock» sound, and I don't disagree, why should that fact (if a fact it is) be a token that «it really does sound much more like a Jagger track trying to pass itself off as a Stones track».
Why could it not rather be that this hard rock edge is after suggestion as needed for this song by that Rolling Stone that outside the Stones made
And, that must be before open-G guitar(s), what is your estimation of
does it sound like a Rolling Stones song?
My point (which I have made a few times) was not that there is only one kind of Stones song or sound, or that there should be. It was rather that they (or Mick) seemed to be trying to hit that certain "open G classic Stones sound" (or whatever you prefer to call it) but they missed the mark because some of the necessary ingredients of that sound are missing. Now, you may disagree with me about this, but at least let's have a disagreement on the point I was making, rather than on one I didn't make.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
tumblingdice
()
Date: October 14, 2012 23:28
I saw it on Amazon earlier today for .99Quote
rebelrebel
Any word on when it's going to be available on Amazon? I'd happily download it but I won't have iTunes software on my PC, it's way too intrusive. I'm not buying GRRR in any format for two tracks either.
EDIT to add it says available 10/16
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-14 23:35 by tumblingdice.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: October 15, 2012 02:13
Quote
stonesnowQuote
71Tele
It is interesting that a lot of non-Stones fans seem to like the track. I guess that's good. or they have low standards...or something.
I congratulate them on coming up with what appears to be a minor hit, though it will likely be a sizable hit in the Euro markets, where their singles always do well. This track just doesn't have the qualities that I've always liked in Stones songs. My first exposure to Stones songs was in a late 70s TV commercial for a greatest hits package (probably Hot Rocks), and in each song clip that was played the chorus/hook was featured, and I remember thinking, nice catchy melody, I like that. Their song hooks were always a favorite feature with me, because they were uniquely their own, Jagger's enunciation and vocal inflections and all that. Also, their musical passages had clever, unique hooks that would stick in your mind. D&G has none of these qualities, just a lackluster flat chord riff that sounds almost cliched in its uninventiveness, along with the total absence of a chorus hook that renders the heavily loaded verses of lyrics as forgettable, and they quickly fade from my mind like sand slipping through my fingers. I've given D&G 4 and a half listens thus far and each time the effect is the same: nothing memorable sticks out in my memory of the song.
The Old Grey Whistle Test comes to mind, the title of which comes from when in the 60s programmers would play a new song for the old grey-haired doormen. If it was catchy enough and you could get the old greys to whistle the tune after a single listen, then you likely had a hit on your hands. You can't whistle a tune like D&G, because there is no tune, you can't even hum along. Maybe you can dance to it, but that limits the context in which you would be listening to it--for exercise, rather than for mere pleasure.
Hot Stuff from the Black and Blue album has the same effect for me, just a flat groove that goes nowhere in its repetitiveness, just Mick the neophile pandering to the then-trendy disco market--now Hand Of Fate, on the other hand, is a totally different matter, that's got to be a Keith song. HOF has all the Stones-like qualities I mentioned above. So, perhaps, One Last Shot might go over better with me, because it surely won't be a self-conscious attempt at luring in the Generation Wi-Fi market, but I won't be repurchasing 48 re-remastered tracks I already repurchased 3 years ago just to be a completist and own the latest production console tinkerings. I'll just be interested in giving a new Keith song a listen, whereas I'm about as likely to give D&G another listen as I am Dogsh*t in the Doorway...or something.
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....doom and gloom indeed....when the Stones play this one live to 60,000 fans you'll be changing your tune when it absolutely rips the roof apart and everyone's bopping and dancing......this is their best groove in a long @#$%& time....good for them!
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
stonesnow
()
Date: October 15, 2012 02:24
Quote
Rip ThisQuote
stonesnowQuote
71Tele
It is interesting that a lot of non-Stones fans seem to like the track. I guess that's good. or they have low standards...or something.
I congratulate them on coming up with what appears to be a minor hit, though it will likely be a sizable hit in the Euro markets, where their singles always do well. This track just doesn't have the qualities that I've always liked in Stones songs. My first exposure to Stones songs was in a late 70s TV commercial for a greatest hits package (probably Hot Rocks), and in each song clip that was played the chorus/hook was featured, and I remember thinking, nice catchy melody, I like that. Their song hooks were always a favorite feature with me, because they were uniquely their own, Jagger's enunciation and vocal inflections and all that. Also, their musical passages had clever, unique hooks that would stick in your mind. D&G has none of these qualities, just a lackluster flat chord riff that sounds almost cliched in its uninventiveness, along with the total absence of a chorus hook that renders the heavily loaded verses of lyrics as forgettable, and they quickly fade from my mind like sand slipping through my fingers. I've given D&G 4 and a half listens thus far and each time the effect is the same: nothing memorable sticks out in my memory of the song.
The Old Grey Whistle Test comes to mind, the title of which comes from when in the 60s programmers would play a new song for the old grey-haired doormen. If it was catchy enough and you could get the old greys to whistle the tune after a single listen, then you likely had a hit on your hands. You can't whistle a tune like D&G, because there is no tune, you can't even hum along. Maybe you can dance to it, but that limits the context in which you would be listening to it--for exercise, rather than for mere pleasure.
Hot Stuff from the Black and Blue album has the same effect for me, just a flat groove that goes nowhere in its repetitiveness, just Mick the neophile pandering to the then-trendy disco market--now Hand Of Fate, on the other hand, is a totally different matter, that's got to be a Keith song. HOF has all the Stones-like qualities I mentioned above. So, perhaps, One Last Shot might go over better with me, because it surely won't be a self-conscious attempt at luring in the Generation Wi-Fi market, but I won't be repurchasing 48 re-remastered tracks I already repurchased 3 years ago just to be a completist and own the latest production console tinkerings. I'll just be interested in giving a new Keith song a listen, whereas I'm about as likely to give D&G another listen as I am Dogsh*t in the Doorway...or something.
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....doom and gloom indeed....when the Stones play this one live to 60,000 fans you'll be changing your tune when it absolutely rips the roof apart and everyone's bopping and dancing......this is their best groove in a long @#$%& time....good for them!
Now, now, let's not resort to that sort of patronising attitude. You can't expect everyone to like it as you do. I won't be "changing my tune" either, as I know what I like and what I don't like. D&G just doesn't move me for the very reasons I stated above. I'll look forward to hearing One Last Shot instead--no doubt to be accompanied by at least a dozen fresh IORR Keith-bashing threads...
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: October 15, 2012 03:50
I don't think I "out patrionized" your comment...."I congratulate them on coming up with what appears to be a minor hit"....but your comment did sound like a whine...having said that...sorry you don't like D&G...I think it's the most fun Mick's had in a while...for once he didn't take himself so seriously (Streets of Love)...can't wait to hear this one live..I bet its a highlight.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
stonesnow
()
Date: October 15, 2012 04:56
Quote
Rip This
I don't think I "out patrionized" your comment...."I congratulate them on coming up with what appears to be a minor hit"....but your comment did sound like a whine...having said that...sorry you don't like D&G...I think it's the most fun Mick's had in a while...for once he didn't take himself so seriously (Streets of Love)...can't wait to hear this one live..I bet its a highlight.
There was nothing fretful, distressed, or pained about my post, therefore no "whine" as you incorrectly interpreted my comments--just a difference of opinion is all, a simple matter of taste. There seems to be no tolerance here for those who don't like this new song--everyone must like it, or else. It just proves that the biggest Stones fanatics are also the most reactionary. This "if you don't like this new song, there must be something wrong with you, and you can't be a part of our club" mentality is rather amusing, almost like being back in school. In fact, it borders on hilarity, this putting other posters down because they don't like a new 3-minute pop-dance number, like your approval of it is the gospel. Around here, it's beginning to feel like a badge of honor not to like this song. Still looking forward to the dozen or so Keith-bashing threads to accompany the release of One Last Shot, which I am looking forward to [that is, the song, not the inevitable Keith-bashing threads]. I'll bet a new Keith song will sound more Stones-like than a glorified Mick solo song such as D&G. Looking forward to locking horns with you D&G folk on that topic next month when One Last Shot becomes available to the public.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: October 15, 2012 05:57
Quote
Rip This
I don't think I "out patrionized" your comment...."I congratulate them on coming up with what appears to be a minor hit"....but your comment did sound like a whine...having said that...sorry you don't like D&G...I think it's the most fun Mick's had in a while...for once he didn't take himself so seriously (Streets of Love)...can't wait to hear this one live..I bet its a highlight.
I'd disagree with that...he seemd to have a hoot with SH, and did a great job with the exile and some girls projects. I'd have to think that along with this, he's having a great time!
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 15, 2012 10:46
Let us talk (more) the new material while it lasts...
Now, listening the track for some days now, it it still growing on me, and more I listen it, more 'natural' it tends to sound. That is, I can easily place it in my Stones vocabulary, finding a justified role there, even enrichening it a bit.
This makes me think of the intersting "Stonesy or not" discussion here. Surely, that is 'subjective' as anything, and I admit making the the mistake sometimes for judging some material as 'Unstonesy' even don't know what a hell that supposed to mean. The problem seems to be that for years - and records - the band has like cemented a certain trademark sound (Keith's riffs, Charlie's drums, etc), and that I guess that arises a lot of expectations, even though basically it is just 'thinking in the box', that never was their 'sin' in the past. In the end is the question of the product itself - if it works or not. And in this case, me thinks it does. And I'm with Gazza that it doesn't matter what happens in the kitchen, if the dinner is alright. It is the case when there is something wrong with the food, we might then look what's the matter with the cooks.
Now, how to locate "Doom and Gloom" to the Stones universe and how to rate it there? I just now think the musical side ot, I already put my thoughts on its lyrical side in that 'philosophy' thread (and I never take the latter part very seriously).
My initial impression where like like many others that of "Rough Justice" or "God Gave Me Everything" meeting ZZ Top or something - a typical late-day Jagger rocker. But it is much more.
First of all, Jagger sounds more relaxed and unforced than earlier. Instead of trying to find 'just another' cliche-like, forced melodic hook to the chorus (where he is as non-inventive as Keith with his riffs), he just 'let it go' - just screams the the lines to fit the chords. I wonder how much the EXILE excursion had to do with it. There is not much melodically to remember in "Plundered My Soul" either, but it is each line expressed like the last in his life, where every sound matters. A good decision - if there are not any mind-blowing melodic hooks, better not even pretend trying. Just use the voice like an instrument. He has history also in there. It works.
Of the backing track then. I have alraedy skipped the ZZ Top reference out of my mind. And also the forced sounding Jagger solo hard rock attempts (a'la "Wired All Night"). The point is: the simple main guitar (riff) simply is radically different than we have used for a long time. Be it cheap or not, it is goddamn fresh to listen. Easily tops the 'by the numbers' efforts of "Rough Justice" and "Oh No Not You Again", etc. - it actually is freshingly different than any of their post 80's rocker guitarisms. Keith's signature open G riffs are mixed - a nod to the familair 'box' - tastefully colouring the over-all sound. That's much better than for example, how that 'retro card' is used in "Saint of Me" - there Ronnie's "Honky Tonk Women" riffs are way too obvious, and I think gives over-all fine song a bit cheap nature.
Actually I would skip all the post STEEL WHEELS era in trying to locate its sound spectrum. Well, maybe the drum part might have, as Jagger's straightforward, one-dimensional shouting, some UNDERCOVER era connotations, but I would go even further in the past, and land even into the 'holy land'.... Actually I have STICKY FINGERS in my mind.
- I can haer the sighs now
-
But that's the album where The Stones started to flirt with the 'hard rock' sound (which was just another move in conquering new areas then). Not just this is a singer who wrote and shouted one of their finest rhythmical tracks ever "Brown Sugar", it is things like "Sway" and "Bitch" I have in my mind. Like with "Bitch" it hits with staright-forward, non-nuanced hard-rock - non-Keith-like - guitar (which Jagger funnily does there), and like with "Bitch" it paints the whole backing track with that on-going riff, not giving much room for a listener to breath (even being absent when the vocals come). But as far as Keith goes (who was not in the box in 1971), there is some feel in the main riff of "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" as well. It is funny that those tracks are so naturally thought belonging to the Stones canon, even though they use quite rather shameslesly rather 'cheap' and typical hard-rock manouvres. But all of that is nicely mixed here with more breathing "Start Me Up"/"Brown Sugar"-like empty places to give room for a typical Stones groove. And all of that in 'modern' clothing, making it definitively as a 2012 release.
So how to rate it? "Best since...?" Like noted here, it is not mathematics, but let us try.... The problem I have had with their latter-day output have been that of ending up sounding like 'trying too much and too little at the same time' (plus that 'box'-thinking'), but here that problem is not present. I think the track is easily better than any FORTY LICKS and A BIGGER BANG material, but I think it is more compact package than for example than Mick's BRIDGES TO BABYLON highlights "Saint of Me" and "Out of Control". I won't say the track is better than those two, but I think it works better. It also has a better and more convincing or natural-sounding 'modern clothing' than "Anybody Seen My Love?" or "Rock and A Hard Place", perhaps even "Undercover of The Night". If we skip "Plundered My Soul", it is the best single since "Harlem Shuffle" or "Undercover of The Night".
Thank you, Mick Jagger and The Rolling Stones.
- Doxa
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 11:05 by Doxa.
Now, listening the track for some days now, it it still growing on me, and more I listen it, more 'natural' it tends to sound. That is, I can easily place it in my Stones vocabulary, finding a justified role there, even enrichening it a bit.
This makes me think of the intersting "Stonesy or not" discussion here. Surely, that is 'subjective' as anything, and I admit making the the mistake sometimes for judging some material as 'Unstonesy' even don't know what a hell that supposed to mean. The problem seems to be that for years - and records - the band has like cemented a certain trademark sound (Keith's riffs, Charlie's drums, etc), and that I guess that arises a lot of expectations, even though basically it is just 'thinking in the box', that never was their 'sin' in the past. In the end is the question of the product itself - if it works or not. And in this case, me thinks it does. And I'm with Gazza that it doesn't matter what happens in the kitchen, if the dinner is alright. It is the case when there is something wrong with the food, we might then look what's the matter with the cooks.
Now, how to locate "Doom and Gloom" to the Stones universe and how to rate it there? I just now think the musical side ot, I already put my thoughts on its lyrical side in that 'philosophy' thread (and I never take the latter part very seriously).
My initial impression where like like many others that of "Rough Justice" or "God Gave Me Everything" meeting ZZ Top or something - a typical late-day Jagger rocker. But it is much more.
First of all, Jagger sounds more relaxed and unforced than earlier. Instead of trying to find 'just another' cliche-like, forced melodic hook to the chorus (where he is as non-inventive as Keith with his riffs), he just 'let it go' - just screams the the lines to fit the chords. I wonder how much the EXILE excursion had to do with it. There is not much melodically to remember in "Plundered My Soul" either, but it is each line expressed like the last in his life, where every sound matters. A good decision - if there are not any mind-blowing melodic hooks, better not even pretend trying. Just use the voice like an instrument. He has history also in there. It works.
Of the backing track then. I have alraedy skipped the ZZ Top reference out of my mind. And also the forced sounding Jagger solo hard rock attempts (a'la "Wired All Night"). The point is: the simple main guitar (riff) simply is radically different than we have used for a long time. Be it cheap or not, it is goddamn fresh to listen. Easily tops the 'by the numbers' efforts of "Rough Justice" and "Oh No Not You Again", etc. - it actually is freshingly different than any of their post 80's rocker guitarisms. Keith's signature open G riffs are mixed - a nod to the familair 'box' - tastefully colouring the over-all sound. That's much better than for example, how that 'retro card' is used in "Saint of Me" - there Ronnie's "Honky Tonk Women" riffs are way too obvious, and I think gives over-all fine song a bit cheap nature.
Actually I would skip all the post STEEL WHEELS era in trying to locate its sound spectrum. Well, maybe the drum part might have, as Jagger's straightforward, one-dimensional shouting, some UNDERCOVER era connotations, but I would go even further in the past, and land even into the 'holy land'.... Actually I have STICKY FINGERS in my mind.
- I can haer the sighs now
-But that's the album where The Stones started to flirt with the 'hard rock' sound (which was just another move in conquering new areas then). Not just this is a singer who wrote and shouted one of their finest rhythmical tracks ever "Brown Sugar", it is things like "Sway" and "Bitch" I have in my mind. Like with "Bitch" it hits with staright-forward, non-nuanced hard-rock - non-Keith-like - guitar (which Jagger funnily does there), and like with "Bitch" it paints the whole backing track with that on-going riff, not giving much room for a listener to breath (even being absent when the vocals come). But as far as Keith goes (who was not in the box in 1971), there is some feel in the main riff of "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" as well. It is funny that those tracks are so naturally thought belonging to the Stones canon, even though they use quite rather shameslesly rather 'cheap' and typical hard-rock manouvres. But all of that is nicely mixed here with more breathing "Start Me Up"/"Brown Sugar"-like empty places to give room for a typical Stones groove. And all of that in 'modern' clothing, making it definitively as a 2012 release.
So how to rate it? "Best since...?" Like noted here, it is not mathematics, but let us try.... The problem I have had with their latter-day output have been that of ending up sounding like 'trying too much and too little at the same time' (plus that 'box'-thinking'), but here that problem is not present. I think the track is easily better than any FORTY LICKS and A BIGGER BANG material, but I think it is more compact package than for example than Mick's BRIDGES TO BABYLON highlights "Saint of Me" and "Out of Control". I won't say the track is better than those two, but I think it works better. It also has a better and more convincing or natural-sounding 'modern clothing' than "Anybody Seen My Love?" or "Rock and A Hard Place", perhaps even "Undercover of The Night". If we skip "Plundered My Soul", it is the best single since "Harlem Shuffle" or "Undercover of The Night".
Thank you, Mick Jagger and The Rolling Stones.
- Doxa
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 11:05 by Doxa.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
OneHit
()
Date: October 15, 2012 11:13
I've only been listening to the album version and it now sounds very, very Stonesy. Loving it. I no longer hear ZZ Top either.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 15, 2012 11:23
I've probably listened to it over 100 times by now (both versions) - and this will really be a crowd pleaser!
The song is very simple, and as we heard from the rehearsals, it's made to be played live.
I wish people would stop comparing D & G with Goddess - musically it's way off the mark. We may discuss quality and Mick's involvement, but that's only theorical speculations. In the real world, Mick has written so many classics, mostly by himself (BS +++). There is no material on Goddess with a sound like this, nor being as raw as this - the only similar stuff is the handclaps/the "dance-rhythm", and in fairness that is not very evident on this track
Regarding the ZZ Top parallell, it's more of the guitar-vibe than the actual sound (or chords) that may be similar.
The guitars have the typical Stones-sound - the unique Stones-sound, and I'm very happy with that sound, no matter who is playing the most.
This is the best Stones-single since 1986, and most of the fans (and the newbees) have spoken. We see the confirmation in the charts
The song is very simple, and as we heard from the rehearsals, it's made to be played live.
I wish people would stop comparing D & G with Goddess - musically it's way off the mark. We may discuss quality and Mick's involvement, but that's only theorical speculations. In the real world, Mick has written so many classics, mostly by himself (BS +++). There is no material on Goddess with a sound like this, nor being as raw as this - the only similar stuff is the handclaps/the "dance-rhythm", and in fairness that is not very evident on this track
Regarding the ZZ Top parallell, it's more of the guitar-vibe than the actual sound (or chords) that may be similar.
The guitars have the typical Stones-sound - the unique Stones-sound, and I'm very happy with that sound, no matter who is playing the most.
This is the best Stones-single since 1986, and most of the fans (and the newbees) have spoken. We see the confirmation in the charts
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
stonesdan60
()
Date: October 15, 2012 11:36
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I've probably listened to it over 100 times by now (both versions) - and this will really be a crowd pleaser!
The song is very simple, and as we heard from the rehearsals, it's made to be played live.
I wish people would stop comparing D & G with Goddess - musically it's way off the mark. We may discuss quality and Mick's involvement, but that's only theorical speculations. In the real world, Mick has written so many classics, mostly by himself (BS +++). There is no material on Goddess with a sound like this, nor being as raw as this - the only similar stuff is the handclaps/the "dance-rhythm", and in fairness that is not very evident on this track
Regarding the ZZ Top parallell, it's more of the guitar-vibe than the actual sound (or chords) that may be similar.
The guitars have the typical Stones-sound - the unique Stones-sound, and I'm very happy with that sound, no matter who is playing the most.
This is the best Stones-single since 1986, and most of the fans (and the newbees) have spoken. We see the confirmation in the charts
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 15, 2012 12:14
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I wish people would stop comparing D & G with Goddess - musically it's way off the mark. We may discuss quality and Mick's involvement, but that's only theorical speculations. In the real world, Mick has written so many classics, mostly by himself (BS +++). There is no material on Goddess with a sound like this, nor being as raw as this - the only similar stuff is the handclaps/the "dance-rhythm", and in fairness that is not very evident on this track
Exactly. Like I said Jagger sounds more relaxed here. Actually I think for a long time, Jagger sounds like being full-committed, and using the Stones as teh medium of his real artistic expression. Not only "okay, this is 'just' a Stones cut, let's make it sound it people think its supposed to sound", but that of "yeah, this is fun! Let's try something!". There is a huge difference there. To my ears it could be that it is the very first time since "Undercover of The Night" and "Emotional Rescue" Jagger sounds mentally present there, giving his all.
The comparison to GODDESS is fair in that sense that Jagger is also totally committed there, but unfair in that sense that the result here is radically different - and better - since the templete is more natural for Jagger to actually shine here. The guy is 'home' again.
The boss is back - which makes me wonder: why on earth it has been so difficult for him to do it properly all these yaers? Was the Keith-problem such a big issue, or were the archive projects so eye-openning for him, that he found the real Rolling Stone muse in himself again? Or is that knowing the end being so near, he suddenly got inspired?
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 12:19 by Doxa.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 15, 2012 12:32
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
I wish people would stop comparing D & G with Goddess - musically it's way off the mark. We may discuss quality and Mick's involvement, but that's only theorical speculations. In the real world, Mick has written so many classics, mostly by himself (BS +++). There is no material on Goddess with a sound like this, nor being as raw as this - the only similar stuff is the handclaps/the "dance-rhythm", and in fairness that is not very evident on this track
Exactly. Like I said Jagger sounds more relaxed here. Actually I think for a long time, Jagger sounds like being full-committed, and using the Stones as teh medium of his real artistic expression. Not only "okay, this is 'just' a Stones cut, let's make it sound it people think its supposed to sound", but that of "yeah, this is fun! Let's try something!". There is a huge difference there. To my ears it could be that it is the very first time since "Undercover of The Night" and "Emotional Rescue" Jagger sounds mentally present there, giving his all.
The comparison to GODDESS is fair in that sense that Jagger is also totally committed there, but unfair in that sense that the result here is radically different - and better - since the templete is more natural for Jagger to actually shine here. The guy is 'home' again.
The boss is back - which makes me wonder: why on earth it has been so difficult for him to do it properly all these yaers? Was the Keith-problem such a big issue, or were the archive projects so eye-openning for him, that he found the real Rolling Stone muse in himself again? Or is that knowing the end being so near, he suddenly got inspired?
- Doxa
Good point!
However, it might be that Mick, instead of trying to get the band on the road again in 2009 or 2010, simply thought that the anniversary is on soon, and that it might be wise to put all the energy in that?
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 15, 2012 12:45
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
I wish people would stop comparing D & G with Goddess - musically it's way off the mark. We may discuss quality and Mick's involvement, but that's only theorical speculations. In the real world, Mick has written so many classics, mostly by himself (BS +++). There is no material on Goddess with a sound like this, nor being as raw as this - the only similar stuff is the handclaps/the "dance-rhythm", and in fairness that is not very evident on this track
Exactly. Like I said Jagger sounds more relaxed here. Actually I think for a long time, Jagger sounds like being full-committed, and using the Stones as teh medium of his real artistic expression. Not only "okay, this is 'just' a Stones cut, let's make it sound it people think its supposed to sound", but that of "yeah, this is fun! Let's try something!". There is a huge difference there. To my ears it could be that it is the very first time since "Undercover of The Night" and "Emotional Rescue" Jagger sounds mentally present there, giving his all.
The comparison to GODDESS is fair in that sense that Jagger is also totally committed there, but unfair in that sense that the result here is radically different - and better - since the templete is more natural for Jagger to actually shine here. The guy is 'home' again.
The boss is back - which makes me wonder: why on earth it has been so difficult for him to do it properly all these yaers? Was the Keith-problem such a big issue, or were the archive projects so eye-openning for him, that he found the real Rolling Stone muse in himself again? Or is that knowing the end being so near, he suddenly got inspired?
- Doxa
Good point!
However, it might be that Mick, instead of trying to get the band on the road again in 2009 or 2010, simply thought that the anniversary is on soon, and that it might be wise to put all the energy in that?
Actually I am thinking in a larger scale. This is the fisrt time since starting his solo career, he seems to be focused on Stones full-heart.
I am so extited at the moment that not only dying to hear "One Last Shot", I hope that the upcoming shows go alright, and Richards gathers his solo stuff he has recorded for ages on the table, and let's Jagger finish them, and then Jagger collecting the 'blues' stuff he said to have recorded with Charlie last year, plus writing some new songs, and then forces the band to record the material after the London/NYC dates, and the tour/shows of next year are backed up with a new album!
The little fan boy in me is romantical now, but I honestly think they could come up something worthwhile now!
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 12:48 by Doxa.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 15, 2012 12:54
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
I wish people would stop comparing D & G with Goddess - musically it's way off the mark. We may discuss quality and Mick's involvement, but that's only theorical speculations. In the real world, Mick has written so many classics, mostly by himself (BS +++). There is no material on Goddess with a sound like this, nor being as raw as this - the only similar stuff is the handclaps/the "dance-rhythm", and in fairness that is not very evident on this track
Exactly. Like I said Jagger sounds more relaxed here. Actually I think for a long time, Jagger sounds like being full-committed, and using the Stones as teh medium of his real artistic expression. Not only "okay, this is 'just' a Stones cut, let's make it sound it people think its supposed to sound", but that of "yeah, this is fun! Let's try something!". There is a huge difference there. To my ears it could be that it is the very first time since "Undercover of The Night" and "Emotional Rescue" Jagger sounds mentally present there, giving his all.
The comparison to GODDESS is fair in that sense that Jagger is also totally committed there, but unfair in that sense that the result here is radically different - and better - since the templete is more natural for Jagger to actually shine here. The guy is 'home' again.
The boss is back - which makes me wonder: why on earth it has been so difficult for him to do it properly all these yaers? Was the Keith-problem such a big issue, or were the archive projects so eye-openning for him, that he found the real Rolling Stone muse in himself again? Or is that knowing the end being so near, he suddenly got inspired?
- Doxa
Good point!
However, it might be that Mick, instead of trying to get the band on the road again in 2009 or 2010, simply thought that the anniversary is on soon, and that it might be wise to put all the energy in that?
Actually I am thinking in a larger scale. This is the fisrt time since starting his solo career, he seems to be focused on Stones full-heart.
I am so extited at the moment that not only dying to hear "One Last Shot", I hope that the upcoming shows go alright, and Richards gathers his solo stuff he has recorded for ages on the table, and let's Jagger finish them, and then Jagger collecting the 'blues' stuff he said to have recorded with Charlie last year, plus writing some new songs, and then forces the band to record the material after the London/NYC dates, and the tour/shows of next year are backed up with a new album!
The little fan boy in me is romantical now, but I honestly think they could come up something worthwhile now!
- Doxa
When listening to the Voodoo Brew/Stew/Residue you'll probably agree with me that Jagger was 100 percent into the Stones in 1993 as well. So many fantastic outtakes, brilliantly performed - several albums worth of material!
I think he tossed his ideas about breaking as a solo star after Primitive Cool. The solo albums he made later on were fun, and stuff he could do when he had the time. Or else he would have toured, imo.
I'm also very exited about One MORE Shot, and simply can't wait
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 12:54 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
rebelrebel
()
Date: October 15, 2012 12:59
Quote
tumblingdiceI saw it on Amazon earlier today for .99Quote
rebelrebel
Any word on when it's going to be available on Amazon? I'd happily download it but I won't have iTunes software on my PC, it's way too intrusive. I'm not buying GRRR in any format for two tracks either.
EDIT to add it says available 10/16
Still not showing up on Amazon UK but I guess it will at some stage.
Many thanks!
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 15, 2012 13:05
Quote
rebelrebelQuote
tumblingdiceI saw it on Amazon earlier today for .99Quote
rebelrebel
Any word on when it's going to be available on Amazon? I'd happily download it but I won't have iTunes software on my PC, it's way too intrusive. I'm not buying GRRR in any format for two tracks either.
EDIT to add it says available 10/16
Still not showing up on Amazon UK but I guess it will at some stage.
Many thanks!
It's not October 16 yet!
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: October 15, 2012 13:06
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
I wish people would stop comparing D & G with Goddess - musically it's way off the mark. We may discuss quality and Mick's involvement, but that's only theorical speculations. In the real world, Mick has written so many classics, mostly by himself (BS +++). There is no material on Goddess with a sound like this, nor being as raw as this - the only similar stuff is the handclaps/the "dance-rhythm", and in fairness that is not very evident on this track
Exactly. Like I said Jagger sounds more relaxed here. Actually I think for a long time, Jagger sounds like being full-committed, and using the Stones as teh medium of his real artistic expression. Not only "okay, this is 'just' a Stones cut, let's make it sound it people think its supposed to sound", but that of "yeah, this is fun! Let's try something!". There is a huge difference there. To my ears it could be that it is the very first time since "Undercover of The Night" and "Emotional Rescue" Jagger sounds mentally present there, giving his all.
The comparison to GODDESS is fair in that sense that Jagger is also totally committed there, but unfair in that sense that the result here is radically different - and better - since the templete is more natural for Jagger to actually shine here. The guy is 'home' again.
The boss is back - which makes me wonder: why on earth it has been so difficult for him to do it properly all these yaers? Was the Keith-problem such a big issue, or were the archive projects so eye-openning for him, that he found the real Rolling Stone muse in himself again? Or is that knowing the end being so near, he suddenly got inspired?
- Doxa
Well, Doxa, now you have made me at the end of the following sketch what I have thought I once should write :
Maybe Mick's experience and inspiration from working within the "Superheavy" prosject, combined with, as you mention, Doxa, inspiration from working with "the archive projects, have coworked in bringing about a renewed interest and even more important a belief in the Rolling Stones as a vehicle to make new music that counts more. Possibly much helped if, I repeate, if a better understanding with Keith has been achieved in both directions. And last, but not least, a hope of again being met with interest for new material, instead of it being neglected by surroundings only interested in their old material and greatest hits from the past.
The last point would point to an alternative explanation of said lazyness and supposed Las Vegas spirit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 13:08 by Witness.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 15, 2012 13:10
Quote
DandelionPowderman
When listening to the Voodoo Brew/Stew/Residue you'll probably agree with me that Jagger was 100 percent into the Stones in 1993 as well. So many fantastic outtakes, brilliantly performed - several albums worth of material!
I think he tossed his ideas about breaking as a solo star after Primitive Cool. The solo albums he made later on were fun, and stuff he could do when he had the time. Or else he would have toured, imo.
I'm not so sure of Jagger's commitment in VOODOO LOUNGE. Yeah, there are some nice jams and grooves and sketches going on in those sessions - it is probably closest to 'classical' Pathe Marconi era sessions during the 'modern age' - but where the hell are the good songs? I don't buy the argument of Don Was @#$%& up VOODOO LOUNGE, namely full-committed Jagger wouldn't have let that happen. Instead he comes up some of his worst lyrics ever, half-baked 'by-the-numbers' songs, and the focused guy present in WANDERING SPIRIT is is replaced by this lazy icon doing the minimal.
I suppose Jagger had fun with the 'boys' in the studio, but I don't hear there an inspired mastermind. In Pathe Marconi there was.
- Doxa
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 15, 2012 13:27
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
When listening to the Voodoo Brew/Stew/Residue you'll probably agree with me that Jagger was 100 percent into the Stones in 1993 as well. So many fantastic outtakes, brilliantly performed - several albums worth of material!
I think he tossed his ideas about breaking as a solo star after Primitive Cool. The solo albums he made later on were fun, and stuff he could do when he had the time. Or else he would have toured, imo.
I'm not so sure of Jagger's commitment in VOODOO LOUNGE. Yeah, there are some nice jams and grooves and sketches going on in those sessions - it is probably closest to 'classical' Pathe Marconi era sessions during the 'modern age' - but where the hell are the good songs? I don't buy the argument of Don Was @#$%& up VOODOO LOUNGE, namely full-committed Jagger wouldn't have let that happen. Instead he comes up some of his worst lyrics ever, half-baked 'by-the-numbers' songs, and the focused guy present in WANDERING SPIRIT is is replaced by this lazy icon doing the minimal.
I suppose Jagger had fun with the 'boys' in the studio, but I don't hear there an inspired mastermind. In Pathe Marconi there was.
- Doxa
Contrary to the Pathe Marconi-tapes, these cuts sound like finished songs to me - only the lead vocals aren't recorded...
Certainly not grooves and jams. Have a listen again
And I don't agree in your criticism of VL. It's not my favourite, but I don't think it sounds like the Stones tried to go Exile rock retro either - that's a myth, first created by Don Was, then bought by some fans - and ultimately regarded as the truth. Musically, it doesn't hold up, imo.
When we take a closer look at VL it actually picks up where Main Offender left sound-wise - that is a digitally-sounding version of the Stones (production-wise), which was at the time modern.
But most importantly, it covers a wide range of musical styles: The Lady Jane-ish New faces, the Tex/Mex in Sweethearts, the irish country pearl The Worst, the rockers: Sweet Disposition, LIS, YGMR, SWF and IGW, the funky Jugular (horrible, though) and so on...
That vast presentation of different music, played with the band's signature sound tells me that they were in a very productive period, and that is indeed confirmed by the excellent Voodoo Brew-boxset.
I think Mick and Keith had a good period as well as a team round this time. When was the last time they were singing in the same mike in the studio prior to this?
In hindsight, it's easy to diss VL, because it didn't quite hold up quality-wise, or more precisely as a collection of songs.
However, those sessions might be the best the Stones have had since the SG-sessions.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 13:35 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: October 15, 2012 13:34
Quote
stonesnowQuote
Rip This
I don't think I "out patrionized" your comment...."I congratulate them on coming up with what appears to be a minor hit"....but your comment did sound like a whine...having said that...sorry you don't like D&G...I think it's the most fun Mick's had in a while...for once he didn't take himself so seriously (Streets of Love)...can't wait to hear this one live..I bet its a highlight.
There was nothing fretful, distressed, or pained about my post, therefore no "whine" as you incorrectly interpreted my comments--just a difference of opinion is all, a simple matter of taste. There seems to be no tolerance here for those who don't like this new song--everyone must like it, or else. It just proves that the biggest Stones fanatics are also the most reactionary. This "if you don't like this new song, there must be something wrong with you, and you can't be a part of our club" mentality is rather amusing, almost like being back in school. In fact, it borders on hilarity, this putting other posters down because they don't like a new 3-minute pop-dance number, like your approval of it is the gospel. Around here, it's beginning to feel like a badge of honor not to like this song. Still looking forward to the dozen or so Keith-bashing threads to accompany the release of One Last Shot, which I am looking forward to [that is, the song, not the inevitable Keith-bashing threads]. I'll bet a new Keith song will sound more Stones-like than a glorified Mick solo song such as D&G. Looking forward to locking horns with you D&G folk on that topic next month when One Last Shot becomes available to the public.
if your post is directed at me I think it's misdirected....however I find it amusing that you don't see how patronizing your posts are (and that's just one perspective).....that's what I reacted to....don't like the tune?....that's your choice..that's cool...I don't take issue with that...it's what you wrote.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 15, 2012 13:44
Quote
Witness
Well, Doxa, now you have made me at the end of the following sketch what I have thought I once should write :
Maybe Mick's experience and inspiration from working within the "Superheavy" prosject, combined with, as you mention, Doxa, inspiration from working with "the archive projects, have coworked in bringing about a renewed interest and even more important a belief in the Rolling Stones as a vehicle to make new music that counts more. Possibly much helped if, I repeate, if a better understanding with Keith has been achieved in both directions. And last, but not least, a hope of again being met with interest for new material, instead of it being neglected by surroundings only interested in their old material and greatest hits from the past.
The last point would point to an alternative explanation of said lazyness and supposed Las Vegas spirit.
Yes, there could be many 'reasons' for Jagger coming terms with his "Rolling Stone" essence, and to add your points I could also think of, for example, the recent recognition of his iconic status ("Move Like Jagger", "Swagger Jagger"), and then his rather well-received (I think) part in that "Harder" thing (can't recall the exact title anymore). Then we have his other well-recieved performances at the Grammys, White House and SNL. The focus Jagger had, for example, doing basic blues at Obama's party was a pleasing surprise for me, and made me thinking he has come terms with his own musical past (which goes along with the archieves project). This all might work for Jagger finding a 'point' in new Stones projects as well. I also think that the terrible urge to charm the kids by being so damn contemparary as possible has been fading a bit. He doesn't seem to 'prove' so damn hard.
But then there is the "Keith-issue". Really can't say anything of what happening in that front - behind the screen - but I wouldn't be surprised if that new sober and post-LIFE humble Keith might not be so hard to cope with than the tough-minded drunken conservative in the past. Probably it is easier now to offer and try new ideas.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 13:48 by Doxa.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 15, 2012 14:16
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Contrary to the Pathe Marconi-tapes, these cuts sound like finished songs to me - only the lead vocals aren't recorded...
Certainly not grooves and jams. Have a listen again
And I don't agree in your criticism of VL. It's not my favourite, but I don't think it sounds like the Stones tried to go Exile rock retro either - that's a myth, first created by Don Was, then bought by some fans - and ultimately regarded as the truth. Musically, it doesn't hold up, imo.
When we take a closer look at VL it actually picks up where Main Offender left sound-wise - that is a digitally-sounding version of the Stones (production-wise), which was at the time modern.
But most importantly, it covers a wide range of musical styles: The Lady Jane-ish New faces, the Tex/Mex in Sweethearts, the irish country pearl The Worst, the rockers: Sweet Disposition, LIS, YGMR, SWF and IGW, the funky Jugular (horrible, though) and so on...
That vast presentation of different music, played with the band's signature sound tells me that they were in a very productive period, and that is indeed confirmed by the excellent Voodoo Brew-boxset.
I think Mick and Keith had a good period as well as a team round this time. When was the last time they were singing in the same mike in the studio prior to this?
In hindsight, it's easy to diss VL, because it didn't quite hold up quality-wise, or more precisely as a collection of songs.
However, those sessions might be the best the Stones have had since the SG-sessions.
Okay, I promise to re-listen that stuff soon...
But what goes for the reputation of VOODOO LOUNGE being "too retro", I think the authority in question was no one else than Mick Jagger putting that on words (1995 ROLLING STONE interview, I think). And I think he was right there.
I can see the point of doing different musical styles, but in VOODOO LOUNGE that is 'going through the motions': The Stones covering themselves of trying different styles they have already done in the past. I remeber reading one review stating that it is like 'greatest hits' album, only that of the originals replaced by a new, weaker songs. By contrast, WANDERING SPIRIT has the same idea of covering different musical styles, but there the result sounds authentic and original - Jagger interpreting certain gener directly - whereas in VOODOO LOUNGE it is The Stones copying their already established versions of certain genres. They end up like copying themselves, and I don't hear there real inspiration. They have done all that better in past.
Personally, VOODOO LOUNGE was the album I fed up with the Stones (of which I am recovering with "Doom and Gloom" as far as the new stuff goes); I thought - and still do - they are going cheap, taking teh easy route. That charming, but a bit corny duet of Mick and Keith in "Sweetherts Together" is like as a studio version of "Faraway Eyes" in SHINE A LIGHT.
All together, to me VOODOO LOUNGE is a quintessentiial Vegas era album, and mostly that is not a good thing (surprise surprise). To me it represents pretty much that the muse has left the building, and they are not really going anywhere any longer. As any 'Vegas show' I think the album has a function of giving a rather faithfull represenation what the music of The Rolling Stones is like, and that might gather some new listeners and fans (as it still good music). But it is not original in any sense of the word.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 14:29 by Doxa.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: October 15, 2012 14:43
I considered VOODOO LOUNGE as a felt need on their part to return to their own musical core as starting point and walk out from there in another direction, rather than, as you tend to see it, Doxa, to do a remake of old achievements. The alternative could have been into a partly lost core of theirs to absorb contemporary impulses in a larger degree, which would be possibly dangerous if it was correct that they had somewhat lost their own musical core during their pauses.
Besides, if they were not able to walk so far out from there, recreating their own musical core is (was) not an automatic representation to the extent that it would be inspired and enlivened work, and they had been away from it.
Then BRIDGES TO BABYLON contributed more to walk further on creatively.
[Have corrected a misprint.]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 15:19 by Witness.
Besides, if they were not able to walk so far out from there, recreating their own musical core is (was) not an automatic representation to the extent that it would be inspired and enlivened work, and they had been away from it.
Then BRIDGES TO BABYLON contributed more to walk further on creatively.
[Have corrected a misprint.]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 15:19 by Witness.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 15, 2012 15:01
Quote
Witness
I considered VOODOO LOUNGE as a felt need on their part to return to their own musical core as starting point and walk out from there in another direction, rather than, as you tend to see it, Doxa, to do a remake of old achievements. The alternative could have been into a partly lost core of theirs to absorb contemporary impulses in a larger degree, which would be possibly dangerous if it was correct that they had somewhat lost their own musical core during their pauses.
Besides, if they were not able to walk so far out from there, recreating their own musical core is (was) not an automatic representation to the extent that it would be inspired end enlivened work, and they had been away from it.
Then BRIDGES TO BABYLON contributed more to walk further on creatively.
+ 1
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 15, 2012 15:09
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
Contrary to the Pathe Marconi-tapes, these cuts sound like finished songs to me - only the lead vocals aren't recorded...
Certainly not grooves and jams. Have a listen again
And I don't agree in your criticism of VL. It's not my favourite, but I don't think it sounds like the Stones tried to go Exile rock retro either - that's a myth, first created by Don Was, then bought by some fans - and ultimately regarded as the truth. Musically, it doesn't hold up, imo.
When we take a closer look at VL it actually picks up where Main Offender left sound-wise - that is a digitally-sounding version of the Stones (production-wise), which was at the time modern.
But most importantly, it covers a wide range of musical styles: The Lady Jane-ish New faces, the Tex/Mex in Sweethearts, the irish country pearl The Worst, the rockers: Sweet Disposition, LIS, YGMR, SWF and IGW, the funky Jugular (horrible, though) and so on...
That vast presentation of different music, played with the band's signature sound tells me that they were in a very productive period, and that is indeed confirmed by the excellent Voodoo Brew-boxset.
I think Mick and Keith had a good period as well as a team round this time. When was the last time they were singing in the same mike in the studio prior to this?
In hindsight, it's easy to diss VL, because it didn't quite hold up quality-wise, or more precisely as a collection of songs.
However, those sessions might be the best the Stones have had since the SG-sessions.
Okay, I promise to re-listen that stuff soon...
But what goes for the reputation of VOODOO LOUNGE being "too retro", I think the authority in question was no one else than Mick Jagger putting that on words (1995 ROLLING STONE interview, I think). And I think he was right there.
I can see the point of doing different musical styles, but in VOODOO LOUNGE that is 'going through the motions': The Stones covering themselves of trying different styles they have already done in the past. I remeber reading one review stating that it is like 'greatest hits' album, only that of the originals replaced by a new, weaker songs. By contrast, WANDERING SPIRIT has the same idea of covering different musical styles, but there the result sounds authentic and original - Jagger interpreting certain gener directly - whereas in VOODOO LOUNGE it is The Stones copying their already established versions of certain genres. They end up like copying themselves, and I don't hear there real inspiration. They have done all that better in past.
Personally, VOODOO LOUNGE was the album I fed up with the Stones (of which I am recovering with "Doom and Gloom" as far as the new stuff goes); I thought - and still do - they are going cheap, taking teh easy route. That charming, but a bit corny duet of Mick and Keith in "Sweetherts Together" is like as a studio version of "Faraway Eyes" in SHINE A LIGHT.
All together, to me VOODOO LOUNGE is a quintessentiial Vegas era album, and mostly that is not a good thing (surprise surprise). To me it represents pretty much that the muse has left the building, and they are not really going anywhere any longer. As any 'Vegas show' I think the album has a function of giving a rather faithfull represenation what the music of The Rolling Stones is like, and that might gather some new listeners and fans (as it still good music). But it is not original in any sense of the word.
- Doxa
I think the only similar things between VL and Exile is:
- Variety
- The double album-format
VL is not more retro than, say, Steel Wheels or other albums (Big exception: B2
.Mick saying it's too retro means nothing really. At that time, he would probably have preferred more dancable tracks, coming off the great success with Sweet Thing.
Don Was branding the album as the REAL new Exile, however, wore off to many fans and reporters - gradually it became "the truth" that the Stones tried to re-create Exile.
Musically, it's an insane comparison, imo. Trying to make a varied rock album doesn't have to be retro or covering yourself. And not succeeding with the quality of your material doesn't have to be benchmark whether that's true or not, imo.
They tried to make a good double album, but didn't quite succeed, imo. That's it.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
WeLoveToPlayTheBlues
()
Date: October 15, 2012 15:35
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
71TeleQuote
treaclefingersQuote
71Tele
OK, I listened to it some more and I like it better. Still sounds more like a solo Jagger track than a Stones song to me though.
Welcome...now, just take this dixie cup, sit down, take a sip and lie back.
I didn't say I was ready to dring the Kool Aid, treacle. But if you catch me saying this is the greatest thing sice "Start Me Up" you'll know all is lost.
You'd actually have to say 'this is the greatest thing since Exile' for you to be completely lost, technically.
Yet that would be spot on by media terms. Because haven't they all? Oh wait, there was one that was hailed 'best since Some Girls'. Well, like, you know, whateverrrrr. Same thing.
Re: "Doom And Gloom" Will Be Released This THURSDAY
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 15, 2012 15:41
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think the only similar things between VL and Exile is:
- Variety
- The double album-format
VL is not more retro than, say, Steel Wheels or other albums (Big exception: B2
Mick saying it's too retro means nothing really. At that time, he would probably have preferred more dancable tracks, coming off the great success with Sweet Thing.
Don Was branding the album as the REAL new Exile, however, wore off to many fans and reporters - gradually it became "the truth" that the Stones tried to re-create Exile.
Musically, it's an insane comparison, imo. Trying to make a varied rock album doesn't have to be retro or covering yourself. And not succeeding with the quality of your material doesn't have to be benchmark whether that's true or not, imo.
They tried to make a good double album, but didn't quite succeed, imo. That's it.
Actually I haven't thought VOODOO LOUNGE ever as a EXILE replica, even though there is that 'let's do different genres' mentality in both. They are just so far from each other: EXILE goes damn deep and original in studying different American musical genres inspiring, and having inspired them, but VOODOO LOUNGE rips off just different styles the band has tried along the years, even "Lady Jane" having a modern reading. They are not inspired by the originals (blues, country, gospel, soul, etc.) but just like "hey, remember when we did this and that, let's try that again". So instead of listening some Muddy, Otis, Hank Williams or whatever records, they sound like have listened their own old records to get the 'inspiration'.
STEEL WHEELS also have a part of that (like any Vegas era album) I admit but it still not so obvious yet.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-15 15:44 by Doxa.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
adrianmfa2 , colonial , frtylicks , georgelicks , lincolnblues , makustone , okenny , Quique-stone , steffialicia , TW2019
Guests:
1808
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10