Listening to Goat's Head Soup again, I think there is a certain lack of consistency
in the combination of tracks. A bit like Out of our heads, that suffers from the same
inconsistency. Almost all songs are great on their own, but the combination of songs,
some heavy with experiments, some heavy with blues rock, somehow does not generate a flow.
Maybe the album would benefit from reshuffling the tracklist. One side of rock and one
side of experiments?

Side 1:
Doo doo doo doo doo
Silver train
Dancing with Mr D
Hide your love
Star star

Side 2:
100 years ago
Angie
Coming down again
Can you hear the music
Winter

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

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marcovandereijk
Listening to Goat's Head Soup again, I think there is a certain lack of consistency
in the combination of tracks. A bit like Out of our heads, that suffers from the same
inconsistency. Almost all songs are great on their own, but the combination of songs,
some heavy with experiments, some heavy with blues rock, somehow does not generate a flow.
Maybe the album would benefit from reshuffling the tracklist. One side of rock and one
side of experiments?

Side 1:
Doo doo doo doo doo
Silver train
Dancing with Mr D
Hide your love
Star star

Side 2:
100 years ago
Angie
Coming down again
Can you hear the music
Winter

The early Tattoo You B-side?

Good track listing, imo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-14 11:40 by DandelionPowderman.

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Erik_Snow
Just by seeing that the reviewer place Shine A Light in the GOOD section and ABB in the SUPERIOR section, and also Emotional Rescue in the AVOID section made me think we had very different taste

+1

I have always wondered what might happened if Bianca wouldn't interrupted and asked Mick to fullfill his "marriage duties" in upstairs, as Johns (?) have claiemd, and thereby Mick never made the next, exploding version... Namely, what Jagger does there is simply outstanding and perfect. One of his strongest vocal performances in record ever.

As a track "Winter" is a great example what people who have made their studies in playing the blues can do. That applies to both Micks. The song itself is not much to be talked about, very simple structure of strumming two chords, and the melody line is not any mccartneyan or paulsimonian either. But jeez hell, Jagger puts there all he knows in phrasing and nuancing (a bit vanmorrisonian though), and simply captures the atmophere and feeling with his delivery, and Taylor paints the landscape with his own fluidy touch. The result is one the greatest paintings the Stones ever have created.

To me "Winter" is the highlight of GOATS HEAD SOUP. Probably the most stunning co-work the two Micks have ever done together.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-14 14:07 by Doxa.

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slew

His Majesty - You are great!!!

Thanks.

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Doxa
I have always wondered what might happened if Bianca wouldn't interrupted and asked Mick to fullfill his "marriage duties" in upstairs, as Johns (?) have claiemd, and thereby Mick never made the next, exploding version... Namely, what Jagger does there is simply outstanding and perfect. One of his strongest vocal performances in record ever.

As a track "Winter" is a great example what people who have made their studies in playing the blues can do. That applies to both Micks. The song itself is not much to be talked about, very simple structure of strumming two chords, and the melody line is not any mccartneyan or paulsimonian either. But jeez hell, Jagger puts there all he knows in phrasing and nuancing (a bit vanmorrisonian though), and simply captures the atmophere and feeling with his delivery, and Taylor paints the landscape with his own fluidy touch. The result is one the greatest paintings the Stones ever have created.

To me "Winter" is the highlight of GOATS HEAD SOUP. Probably the most stunning co-work the two Micks have ever done together.

- Doxa

I fail to see why it surpasses Moonlight Mile. Care to elaborate?

Please a full album with ony "fillers" like Winter.....and pleeeease nore filler album like GHS.(hello Mathijs)

Winter, Moonlight Mile, Sway hass always made me dream of a solo album by Mick Jagger with Mich taylor as a very, very special guest!!!

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jamesjagger
Winter, Moonlight Mile, Sway hass always made me dream of a solo album by Mick Jagger with Mich taylor as a very, very special guest!!!

Well, he's had Jeff Beck and Joe Perry as guests - it didn't turn out THAT well.

+ Keith had a hand in writing those tunes.

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa
To me "Winter" is the highlight of GOATS HEAD SOUP. Probably the most stunning co-work the two Micks have ever done together.

- Doxa

I fail to see why it surpasses Moonlight Mile. Care to elaborate?

It probably does not. I maybe choce my words wrongly for what I have in mind. As a written song "Moonlight Mile" is much better, melodically and structurally very well written indeed, while "Winter" is more like a sketch worked (jammed) out. But it is within that not much structured space these two Micks really click together, like sparring each other. So naturally, flow-like. It is just that special way they 'duet' together I find especially 'school-like' example of their co-work. I don't think there is such 'pure' example of that in any other Stones recording. There is so much else going on in "Moonlight Mile", for example, that the Two Mick tandem, and their chemistry, is not so constitutional there. What I hear in "Winter" is expectional, the atmosphere I mean, and that's the Micks doing that for us there.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-14 14:58 by Doxa.

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DandelionPowderman

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jamesjagger
Winter, Moonlight Mile, Sway hass always made me dream of a solo album by Mick Jagger with Mich taylor as a very, very special guest!!!

Well, he's had Jeff Beck and Joe Perry as guests - it didn't turn out THAT well.

+ Keith had a hand in writing those tunes.

Did he? I remember him only being involved in making some riff of "Moonlight Mile". He does back vocs to "Sway" but does he anything else in these tracks?

- Doxa

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa
To me "Winter" is the highlight of GOATS HEAD SOUP. Probably the most stunning co-work the two Micks have ever done together.

- Doxa

I fail to see why it surpasses Moonlight Mile. Care to elaborate?

It probably does not. I maybe choce my words wrongly for what I have in mind. As a written song "Moonlight Mile" is much better, melodically and structurally very well written indeed, while "Winter" is more like a sketch worked (jammed) out. But it is within that not much structured space these two Micks really click together, like sparring each other. So naturally, flow-like. It is just that special way they 'duet' together I find especially 'school-like' example of their co-work. I don't think there is such 'pure' example of that in any other Stones recording. There is so much else going on in "Moonlight Mile", for example, that the Two Mick tandem, and their chemistry, is not so constitutional there. What I hear in "Winter" is expectional, the atmosphere I mean, and that's the Micks doing that for us there.

- Doxa

Another RS treasure that was recorded without Keith, and that also might not even took part in writing, was Shine A Light. It's a Jagger/Taylor performance
Or did Keith take part in the writing ? Not absolutely certain about that.

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Justin
To a lot of people, all the songs that aren't a warhorse is labeled "space-fillers.' Goes to show you what exactly everyone's standards are. These are proably the same people who say "Exile" is their greatest achievement yet probably wouldn't be able to name any song besides "Tumblin Dice" or "Happy"...if any song at all...

I like the one that goes 'Danananowwwww' in the beginning. GREAT SONG, one of their best. Ever.

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Erik_Snow

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa
To me "Winter" is the highlight of GOATS HEAD SOUP. Probably the most stunning co-work the two Micks have ever done together.

- Doxa

I fail to see why it surpasses Moonlight Mile. Care to elaborate?

It probably does not. I maybe choce my words wrongly for what I have in mind. As a written song "Moonlight Mile" is much better, melodically and structurally very well written indeed, while "Winter" is more like a sketch worked (jammed) out. But it is within that not much structured space these two Micks really click together, like sparring each other. So naturally, flow-like. It is just that special way they 'duet' together I find especially 'school-like' example of their co-work. I don't think there is such 'pure' example of that in any other Stones recording. There is so much else going on in "Moonlight Mile", for example, that the Two Mick tandem, and their chemistry, is not so constitutional there. What I hear in "Winter" is expectional, the atmosphere I mean, and that's the Micks doing that for us there.

- Doxa

Another RS treasure that was recorded without Keith, and that also might not even took part in writing, was Shine A Light. It's a Jagger/Taylor performance
Or did Keith take part in the writing ? Not absolutely certain about that.

Well, Shine A Light sounds very much like a Preston/Jagger-performance to me.

Speculating in who wrote what is impossible.

And there are loads of examples of song writers not performing on their "own" tracks: Bill, for instance, claims to have written JJF, but he's not on the track.

But if we're just guessing here, I'd say that Keith was involved in the writing of Sway (because of how it sound), but had nothing to do with Winter - even though he is strangely credited at various sites on rhythm guitar together with Mick J.

Shine A Light sounds like Prestons melody pattern and Jagger's lyrics/chorus to me. Taylor only plays fills and a rather anonymous solo on it.

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Mathijs
Winter is a decent track on a filler album.

Mathijs

i kind of agree here...not a huge fan of Goats, but Winter & 100 Years Ago are very good.
the way Winter reaches for that climax with the Taylor solo is superb!

the band were certainly coming down after their US tour of '72...drugs may have been a problem...!! certainly explains the disjointed album.

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Eleanor Rigby

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Mathijs
Winter is a decent track on a filler album.

Mathijs

i kind of agree here...not a huge fan of Goats, but Winter & 100 Years Ago are very good.
the way Winter reaches for that climax with the Taylor solo is superb!

the band were certainly coming down after their US tour of '72...drugs may have been a problem...!! certainly explains the disjointed album.

I would say melancholy rather than disjointed. It shows a tired band, reaching for inspiration. But in this case the fatigue was the inspiration, and is captured beautifully in songs like "Winter", "100 Years Ago", and "Coming Down Again". Add to that a big radio hit in "Angie". It's the rockers on the record that are only so-so.

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71Tele

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Eleanor Rigby

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Mathijs
Winter is a decent track on a filler album.

Mathijs

i kind of agree here...not a huge fan of Goats, but Winter & 100 Years Ago are very good.
the way Winter reaches for that climax with the Taylor solo is superb!

the band were certainly coming down after their US tour of '72...drugs may have been a problem...!! certainly explains the disjointed album.

I would say melancholy rather than disjointed. It shows a tired band, reaching for inspiration. But in this case the fatigue was the inspiration, and is captured beautifully in songs like "Winter", "100 Years Ago", and "Coming Down Again". Add to that a big radio hit in "Angie". It's the rockers on the record that are only so-so.

I agree, even though Heartbreaker and Star Star are good.

Can You Hear The Music is a pretty slow number as well.

IMO, Winter is only the third best ballad on the album (but says a lot about the other two).

true, disjointed wasnt the word...

think Winter is the equal of Angie..i certainly listen to Winter more than Angie.
The only time I listen to Angie is Brussels #1 show 1973...that is Jagger/Mick T (again) at their best...funny that !

unremarkable space-fillers

that applies to "Heaven" imo

although I like the groove

I would not call Winter one of their best ever songs. It's a great album track. I mean really we can sit and bitch that the songs that are to be on GRRRR have been overplayed to deat but songs like Satisfaction, JJF, Gimme Shelter, etc. are their best songs. But there is so much more than those songs and Winter is one of them.

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DandelionPowderman

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71Tele

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Eleanor Rigby

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Mathijs
Winter is a decent track on a filler album.

Mathijs

i kind of agree here...not a huge fan of Goats, but Winter & 100 Years Ago are very good.
the way Winter reaches for that climax with the Taylor solo is superb!

the band were certainly coming down after their US tour of '72...drugs may have been a problem...!! certainly explains the disjointed album.

I would say melancholy rather than disjointed. It shows a tired band, reaching for inspiration. But in this case the fatigue was the inspiration, and is captured beautifully in songs like "Winter", "100 Years Ago", and "Coming Down Again". Add to that a big radio hit in "Angie". It's the rockers on the record that are only so-so.

I agree, even though Heartbreaker and Star Star are good.

Can You Hear The Music is a pretty slow number as well.

IMO, Winter is only the third best ballad on the album (but says a lot about the other two).

My impression is that «Winter» does not function that good as an album track. In this case, the two preceding tracks « Silver Train» and especially «Hide Your Love» are not good enough in my estimation to continue the level of quality of the first five songs of GOATS HEAD SOUP. And in my view «Winter» is not able to regain that level for the album, but more emerges as an isolated very fine track. The more or less hypnotic «Can You Hear the Music» and the quite good rocker «Star Star» (not as great as «Heartbreaker though) to me do more to heighten the album anew as album than «Winter» does, even if «Winter» is a better song than those two. A paradox really, if one is of that opinion .

And when I question myself on which later album «Winter» would better fit in, I can't find an adequate answer. As I started to suggest, I tend to think that «Winter» should have been made a single rather than an album track. It could have constituted a rather good single, too, I think.

I would say melancholy rather than disjointed. It shows a tired band, reaching for inspiration. But in this case the fatigue was the inspiration, ...... Those words capture something. In an older thread I think someone used the word «jaded» ( and I suspect that that somebody was Mathijs). In its proper sense one could also say «decadence», as a kind of tiredness rather than «debauchery» and all that stuff. Also in that connection, «Winter» is not fitting in in the way for instance «Angie» and "100 Years Ago" do.

By the way, I would like the term «ballad» to be used in a more narrow sense that I am not myself able to define. «Coming Down Again» to me should not be perceived as a ballad. However, «Angie» and «Winter», those two songs are ballads to me,too. Can anybody give an approach to such a more narrow definition? Or is «ballad» to be taken to be more or less every «slow song»? Maybe an interesting thread of its own for those who are able to give answers to this question, agreeing or disagreeing?

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Eleanor Rigby

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Mathijs
Winter is a decent track on a filler album.

Mathijs

i kind of agree here...not a huge fan of Goats, but Winter & 100 Years Ago are very good.
the way Winter reaches for that climax with the Taylor solo is superb!

the band were certainly coming down after their US tour of '72...drugs may have been a problem...!! certainly explains the disjointed album.

To keep everything in perspective when we - most of us - refer to the band coming down after their peak '68-'72 period, I think we ought to remind ourselves of the well known, (as far as it is agreement on this as an established fact), that the coming down applies only to the creative process of making new studio albums for some time to follow. As a live band the peak achievements continues, of course. And the live versions of songs from GOATS HEAD SOUP do not emerge as jaded or fatigued. As an aspect of GOATS HEAD SOUP, I also think, it is in itself a downright masterly achievement to capture this satiated and fatigued state of mind from a long moment in time (their time, that is) and make it an unspoken theme of an album of rock. This is an aspect of greatness of the album as a whole, even if the same verdict cannot be passed on all of its contents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-16 10:59 by Witness.

I don't think there are any "space fillers" on Stones albums.

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Witness
Taken from a post that I abstained from sending:

A piece of "counter fact"-thinking. [Probably not fit to be called counterfactual thinking as such.]

One point of view though, relating to the song «Waiting on a Friend», probably highly controversial: If I have got the time of the origine right, I would have liked it to have taken the place of «Winter» within GOAT'S HEAD SOUP, which I think would have made «Coming Down Again» and «Waiting on a Friend» an axis for GHS to evolve round in the middle of Side A and B. Not that I do not hold «Winter» to be a great song, but I have started to think it would have been greater in another setting, and I think that «Waiting on a Friend» would have heightened GHS more.

GOAT HEAD'S SOUP to me above all equals «Coming Down Again» as theme and over all feeling, namely from the '68 – '72 albums heights, to which this album to me could almost have belonged with the mentionned suggested change, with «Silver Train» and «Hide Your Love» both replaced by I don't what available songs at the time if any, and possibly (or possibly not) a more «gothic» sounding «Dancing with Mr D» (in the vein of the live boot version, I believe it is «the Jean-Clarke Memorial Service(?)» during the European Tour of 1973).

Hide Your Love and Silver Train could have been replaced by Criss Cross; an exciting number.I like many, most tracks on GHS, but one thing they lack is excitement.

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marcovandereijk
Listening to Goat's Head Soup again, I think there is a certain lack of consistency
in the combination of tracks. A bit like Out of our heads, that suffers from the same
inconsistency. Almost all songs are great on their own, but the combination of songs,
some heavy with experiments, some heavy with blues rock, somehow does not generate a flow.
Maybe the album would benefit from reshuffling the tracklist. One side of rock and one
side of experiments?

Side 1:
Doo doo doo doo doo
Silver train
Dancing with Mr D
Hide your love
Star star

Side 2:
100 years ago
Angie
Coming down again
Can you hear the music
Winter

Normaly I don't like this kind of stuff. Dont see the point. But this track-listing really makes a difference IMO.
What I've noticed is that the most exciting tracks on GHS are ballads. "Winter" and "Angie" have more passion than Dw/MD, Silver Train. HYL, CYHTM.

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slew
Gunface is not bad...

You're right - it's HORRIBLE.

Filler? Exactly What Is Filler? Bands Do Not Begin The Songwriting Process Thinking Any Of Their Works Are Filler. Winter Is A Romantic Ballad With A Beautiful Guitar Chords & A Great Solo By Mick Taylor. Angie Is Cut From The Same Cloth And That Ballad Was A Hit.


Soulsurvivor

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soulsurvivor1
Filler? Exactly What Is Filler? Bands Do Not Begin The Songwriting Process Thinking Any Of Their Works Are Filler. Winter Is A Romantic Ballad With A Beautiful Guitar Chords & A Great Solo By Mick Taylor. Angie Is Cut From The Same Cloth And That Ballad Was A Hit.


Soulsurvivor

That is a helluva lot of capital letters!

Ok- Angie has nothing to do with Winter. The only other masterpiece is Moonlight Mile, which has the same approach. Please do not compare these gems with nothing! When i hear such opinions it makes ne sicker than a Jets fan thinkin they can beat the Jteelers on the road.

I myself like the hybrid version of Winter a lot: