Keith is playing the bass on Sympathy For The Devil and I believe a few other songs as well. Anyone knows what Bill Wyman thought of this? Did Keith have the power to do the bass part whenever he wanted to? You can see him in the Godard movie playing bass while Wyman's just plays some coconut sort of percussion.
I believe Keith wouldn't do the same if he was present and someone else wanted to play guitar.

Keith threatened Bill with a knife and said, "You'll be glad to get out alive."

Remember that Mick and Keith ran the show. If keith said he wwanted to play bass because he had a good idea, Wyman knew it was futile to argue. Keith has played bass on loads of songs: Let's Spend the Night Together, JJF, Street Fighting Man, Live With Me, Casino Boogie, Happy, and a host of others I can't bring to mind. Then there's a whole bunch that Ron Wood played bass on...

Quote
stonesdan60
Remember that Mick and Keith ran the show. If keith said he wwanted to play bass because he had a good idea, Wyman knew it was futile to argue. Keith has played bass on loads of songs: Let's Spend the Night Together, JJF, Street Fighting Man, Live With Me, Casino Boogie, Happy, and a host of others I can't bring to mind. Then there's a whole bunch that Ron Wood played bass on...

And also Mick Taylor.

Back in the day they would record 2 weeks as a band, and then endless weeks of overdubs, where Charlie and Bill where not present. So to wipe Bill's parts and re-record it was an easy decision not to be discussed with Bill.

Mathijs

As often as not I suspect that Keith's bass parts remain simply because Bill wasn't in the Studio at the time and they were subsequently happy with what they had. Keith's OK on bass...for a guitar player ;^)

Nevertheless, some of the filmed sessions of One Plus One (SFTD) show Keith playing bass while Bill is in the studio - playing percussion. So not always done because of his absence or overdubbed without his knowledge. For what it's worth, Bill looks pretty fed up in those sequences - but then he often does anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-13 19:27 by Green Lady.

whatever... the bassline and sound for Live With Me...

that intro is bass and drums sublime. charlie and Keith

but also Bill contributed in subtle unexpected ways and knew when to step aside regarding bass

Soul Survivor springs to mind as a Keith bass effort.

Quote
DiscoVolante
Keith is playing the bass on Sympathy For The Devil and I believe a few other songs as well. Anyone knows what Bill Wyman thought of this?

Bill probably thought Sympathy was a 4 chord losing streak and gladly handed over duties.

Quote
DiscoVolante
I believe Keith wouldn't do the same if he was present and someone else wanted to play guitar.

Don't know what he was thinking, but Keith was fine with not playing guitar on Sway, Moonlight Mile, I Just Want to hear his face, shine a light, stop breaking down, almost 1/2 of GHS, Memory Motel (and this, I think, is the only RS track with no Stones on guitar - aside MemoFT that is more a Jagger solo track), Heaven, Saint of Me and I don't know how many more I am missing!

C

Quote
DiscoVolante
Anyone knows what Bill Wyman thought of this?

"My god, he sucks."

Quote
liddas

Quote
DiscoVolante
I believe Keith wouldn't do the same if he was present and someone else wanted to play guitar.

Don't know what he was thinking, but Keith was fine with not playing guitar on Sway, Moonlight Mile, I Just Want to hear his face, shine a light, stop breaking down, almost 1/2 of GHS, Memory Motel (and this, I think, is the only RS track with no Stones on guitar - aside MemoFT that is more a Jagger solo track), Heaven, Saint of Me and I don't know how many more I am missing!

C

He wasn't present on all these tracks. On Sway and Moonlight Mile at least it was just Jagger and Mick T together, Keith added backing vocals afterwards I think. Still credited to Jagger/Richards though.

Quote
DiscoVolante
Keith is playing the bass on Sympathy For The Devil and I believe a few other songs as well. Anyone knows what Bill Wyman thought of this? Did Keith have the power to do the bass part whenever he wanted to? You can see him in the Godard movie playing bass while Wyman's just plays some coconut sort of percussion.
I believe Keith wouldn't do the same if he was present and someone else wanted to play guitar.

Bill has said that he doesn't think much of Keith's bass playing any more than what Keith thinks when Bill plays guitar. Bill's main criticism was that Keith plays bass like a guitar player, as opposed to playing bass like a bass player. Bill has said in one of his books that in the late 60s, Keith would often erase Bill's bass track in several recordings and dub in his own bass parts, adding with some bitterness that he believes the Stones only wanted him there to fill the bass function of their live shows.

Bill was / is the Bass player for the Stones. Nobody better for this band, but I do like the tracks where Keith handles the Bass guitar-- nice change of pace and Keith always got a cool sound out of the instrument. Also liked his Bass playing with The Dirty Mac at the R&R Circus and also on Billy Preston's Apple LP "Thats the Way GOD Planned It" ( produced by lonesome George Harrison)

Bill--- love you ! You are the ONLY bass player for the Stones !

Quote
Mathijs
Back in the day they would record 2 weeks as a band, and then endless weeks of overdubs, where Charlie and Bill where not present. So to wipe Bill's parts and re-record it was an easy decision not to be discussed with Bill.

Mathijs

Hence Bill still believeing he played bass on "Tumbling Dice" and the many double credits for bass on the Exile reissue.

Bill usually manages to duplicate/enhance Keith's studio-recorded bass live but I've often wondered what songs like "Sympathy" and "Flash" would have sounded like had Bill been "permitted" to lay down his own lines. I'm sure not being allowed to contribute to many of the band's signature tunes must have stung. He looks miserable in the Goddard film.

That being said, I love Keith's bass playing.

Quote
bleedingman
Bill usually manages to duplicate/enhance Keith's studio-recorded bass live but I've often wondered what songs like "Sympathy" and "Flash" would have sounded like had Bill been "permitted" to lay down his own lines. I'm sure not being allowed to contribute to many of the band's signature tunes must have stung. He looks miserable in the Goddard film.

That being said, I love Keith's bass playing.

Honestly, could either of those songs be improved?

[www.non-filters.com]

As I've stated before, some of the Keith bass parts fit because they sound like Wyman. If someone told you, and you didn't already know, that Bill did the bass of JJF it would be easily believable. Same with Tumblin' Dice, it's a Bill part. In other words it's what the Rolling Stones bass part is supposed to sound like. Excepting SFTD. And yes, when you hear Bill play these songs live he with sounds just as good, or ever better in some instances. His bass on Live With Me on Ya Yas is mind rattling.

There's a photo of Bill in the sound booth watching Keith play bass on SFTD -- surprised no one's posted it yet.

Quote
nonfilter

Quote
bleedingman
Bill usually manages to duplicate/enhance Keith's studio-recorded bass live but I've often wondered what songs like "Sympathy" and "Flash" would have sounded like had Bill been "permitted" to lay down his own lines. I'm sure not being allowed to contribute to many of the band's signature tunes must have stung. He looks miserable in the Goddard film.

That being said, I love Keith's bass playing.

Honestly, could either of those songs be improved?

[www.non-filters.com]

I highly doubt it but I am still curious as to what Bill's take on those songs, as well as "Street Fighting", etc. would have been.

In Jimmy Phelge's book he writes about how they derided Bill behind his back, calling him "Ernie" (their term for "straight" working-class blokes). At one point at the Edith Grove flat, Brian picks up Bill's bass (Bill wasn't there) and says something to the effect of, "I could play bass. We don't need 'Ernie'". Due to his age, his being married, and his "Ernieness", Bill was always at a disadvantage. God bless him, I miss him.

Quote
stonesdan60
Remember that Mick and Keith ran the show. If keith said he wwanted to play bass because he had a good idea, Wyman knew it was futile to argue. Keith has played bass on loads of songs: Let's Spend the Night Together, JJF, Street Fighting Man, Live With Me, Casino Boogie, Happy, and a host of others I can't bring to mind. Then there's a whole bunch that Ron Wood played bass on...

I recall Bill Wyman being asked in an interview around the time of Steel Wheels what he thought of Ronnie Wood playing bass on some songs (Hold Onto your Hat for one). Wyman didn't think well of it. Something to the effect of he didn't think it was very good and liked it probably about as much as they'd appreciate the effort if he played lead guitar.

In Stone Alone, Bill Wyman sounds a bit bitter, or disappointed at least, about Keith taking over the bass part in the Dirty Mac at Rock and Roll Circus.

Understandable, but at the same time, its obvious (I think) that many people would want to at least "see" Keith play with Clapton and Lennon.

Bill has always been the 'Ringo' of the group, the one who appears to be normal and a little out of place among the more glamorous members. He always seemed to English to me. In time I zeroed on his bass playing and realized how fabulous he was as a musician. And his outside interests, and being held in high regard, only enhanced his imgage. Then when I found out he was the biggest whore hound in the group it blew my mind. Randy little git.

Quote
DiscoVolante

Quote
liddas

Quote
DiscoVolante
I believe Keith wouldn't do the same if he was present and someone else wanted to play guitar.

Don't know what he was thinking, but Keith was fine with not playing guitar on Sway, Moonlight Mile, I Just Want to hear his face, shine a light, stop breaking down, almost 1/2 of GHS, Memory Motel (and this, I think, is the only RS track with no Stones on guitar - aside MemoFT that is more a Jagger solo track), Heaven, Saint of Me and I don't know how many more I am missing!

C

He wasn't present on all these tracks. On Sway and Moonlight Mile at least it was just Jagger and Mick T together, Keith added backing vocals afterwards I think. Still credited to Jagger/Richards though.

True, but Keith could have easily overdubbed all the guitar parts (like he did many other times). If he didn't I assume that it was fine for him have others playing the guitar instead of him.

C

In any case, going back to the main topic, it is absolutely true that - in general - Bill's a way better bassist than Keith. But it is also true that all Keith's lines, his rough approach, are an essential part of the song he played bass on. Think of Let's spend the night together, or Devil, or LWM. The bass carries those songs!!!

And at the end, if the song works, that is what matters.

C

This is one of my favourite Keith bass-tracks:

Quote
stonesdan60
Remember that Mick and Keith ran the show. If keith said he wwanted to play bass because he had a good idea, Wyman knew it was futile to argue. Keith has played bass on loads of songs: Let's Spend the Night Together, JJF, Street Fighting Man, Live With Me, Casino Boogie, Happy, and a host of others I can't bring to mind. Then there's a whole bunch that Ron Wood played bass on...

And those are the ones that are known; that are on record. Who knows how many he just erased and re-cut during mixing sessions, or even earlier?

Probably, there were times when Bill just wasn't around long enough during the recording sessions to learn the new songs properly. Or Keith wasn't around long enough to teach him.

If Bill wasn't there, say in the finalizing process, it wouldn't be so strange if Keith, Ronnie or even Mick laid down new bass tracks.

Bill should of played bass if he was there, I don't know what Keith was playing at. I could understand if Bill couldn't play like a Sid Vicious type, but he's a great player.

Bill should of put him in his place early on in the band, taking cr*p from a guy 7 years younger than him or whatever it is. I bet Keith was laughing inside.