Quote
71Tele
ten years of Ron Wood plastered out of his mind onstage and contributing basically nothing of interest on guitar was pure brilliance. Get with the program.

Which 10 though? Some of it was unadulterated brilliance, and other parts just plain old brilliant..

Quote
Munichhilton

Quote
71Tele
ten years of Ron Wood plastered out of his mind onstage and contributing basically nothing of interest on guitar was pure brilliance. Get with the program.

Which 10 though? Some of it was unadulterated brilliance, and other parts just plain old brilliant..

If you say so. You were very fortunate to attend different shows than me apparently.

Back on topic... Here is the complete Ya Ya's raw acetate for those of you who haven't heard it. MP3 form so that my server doesn't get hammered like crazy...

Hatfieldmedia.com/yayas_acetate.zip - 128MB zip file

Quote
71Tele

Quote
pinkfloydthebarber

Quote
Spud
I can't speak for mathijs but MT's fault was always a tendency to overplay.
This I think is evident even in his rhythm playing. There ain't enough spaces in it !

no

it sounds just fine; no 'rhythm' overplaying here

great, actually

its funny sometimes MT is criticized for overplaying (ie noodling around on lead too much i guess) which to me sounds like people think he should just be playing straight rhythm, there, instead

and then he's criticized for that, too?

no way, i don't buy that; he's great

i mean Taylor's soloing with Keef doing the rhythm, live, to me WAS the Stones live guitar sound. each to their own. and I like the 69 tour a lot too, just not as much as 1972 (or the 1973 European tour). also, I think Wood wrecked the band's live sound after the 78 tour. i'll leave it at that.

Don't you understand yet, pinkfloyd? Anytime Mick Taylor did anything to spice up a song, it was "overplaying" or "noodling", and ten years of Ron Wood plastered out of his mind onstage and contributing basically nothing of interest on guitar was pure brilliance. Get with the program.

I thought the same from live 72-73 tours about MT guitar work, when I saw them live, it's like the whole song was altered due to the 'noodling', they at least mostly, try to make the songs sound like the records these days.

Quote
midimannz

Quote
71Tele

Quote
pinkfloydthebarber

Quote
Spud
I can't speak for mathijs but MT's fault was always a tendency to overplay.
This I think is evident even in his rhythm playing. There ain't enough spaces in it !

no

it sounds just fine; no 'rhythm' overplaying here

great, actually

its funny sometimes MT is criticized for overplaying (ie noodling around on lead too much i guess) which to me sounds like people think he should just be playing straight rhythm, there, instead

and then he's criticized for that, too?

no way, i don't buy that; he's great

i mean Taylor's soloing with Keef doing the rhythm, live, to me WAS the Stones live guitar sound. each to their own. and I like the 69 tour a lot too, just not as much as 1972 (or the 1973 European tour). also, I think Wood wrecked the band's live sound after the 78 tour. i'll leave it at that.

Don't you understand yet, pinkfloyd? Anytime Mick Taylor did anything to spice up a song, it was "overplaying" or "noodling", and ten years of Ron Wood plastered out of his mind onstage and contributing basically nothing of interest on guitar was pure brilliance. Get with the program.

I thought the same from live 72-73 tours about MT guitar work, when I saw them live, it's like the whole song was altered due to the 'noodling', they at least mostly, try to make the songs sound like the records these days.

Well, I can't argue with that reasoning...or something.

Quote
71Tele

Quote
pinkfloydthebarber

Quote
Spud
I can't speak for mathijs but MT's fault was always a tendency to overplay.
This I think is evident even in his rhythm playing. There ain't enough spaces in it !

no

it sounds just fine; no 'rhythm' overplaying here

great, actually

its funny sometimes MT is criticized for overplaying (ie noodling around on lead too much i guess) which to me sounds like people think he should just be playing straight rhythm, there, instead

and then he's criticized for that, too?

no way, i don't buy that; he's great

i mean Taylor's soloing with Keef doing the rhythm, live, to me WAS the Stones live guitar sound. each to their own. and I like the 69 tour a lot too, just not as much as 1972 (or the 1973 European tour). also, I think Wood wrecked the band's live sound after the 78 tour. i'll leave it at that.

Don't you understand yet, pinkfloyd? Anytime Mick Taylor did anything to spice up a song, it was "overplaying" or "noodling", and ten years of Ron Wood plastered out of his mind onstage and contributing basically nothing of interest on guitar was pure brilliance. Get with the program.

yeah i hear ya

some people criticize taylor for 'noodling' but i call all that his non-stop bombardment of tasty fills and atmospheric extended solos

rarely do you hear anyone around here criticize richards playing, while MT seems to be a target

i mean keith could be pretty sloppy and stiff at times

ok and I mean if you listen to anything the Stones have played live since 78 with woody, the 'art of weaving' to me, is more like the 'art of dicking around'

interplay between Woody & Keith has been mainly rhythm guitars with a lick here and there, this doesn't come close to comparing what MT did with keith

i just think woodyie and Keith standing around goofing off and occasionally throwing a pick across a string or two gets very annoying

listen to songs like 'Sway', or 'Winter', for example. MTs soloing in no way diminishes either of those songs. listen to 'Star, Star', where keith takes lead and MT plays wonderful chugging rhythm guitar. and there are also many others where they mix together superbly

Mick Taylor could play in almost any Band, like The Allman Brothers for example

woody not so much, but he did rip it up pretty good with Faces, i like him on guitar there, much better than with the stones

but let me put it this way, if given the keys to a time machine, I would go back and catch the Taylor-era Stones, without a moment's hesitation, over any other version of the Stones



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-08 06:52 by pinkfloydthebarber.

All these people who saw Ron Wood's brilliant playing during the 90s are very fortunate indeed. What I saw was a lot of running around lighting cigarettes, clowning, squinching his face up, and his favorite trick on guitar - noodling - yes, noddling - on the very upper register of the fretboard. And I say "saw" his playing because during many of the shows of this period his guitar was so low in the mix (quite intentionally, as it was consistent from show to show) as to make anything he played superfluous. Yet Taylor is constantly run down for allegedly overplaying by some of the same folks who seem not to mind the sort of performance just described. Sorry for the rant, but one gets sick of it.

I second that pinkfloyd...

Woody's high point to me was the Some Girls record, and the 78 tour. and i thought he was focused pretty good on the Stripped record, and was good on the 75 tour.

but thats about it man

i still think Ronnie Woods best work was with Faces, and i think he is a good multi-instrumentalist, and a better songwriter than MT

but Woody's sound is not as defined as Taylor's and for certain his time is much less solid and intonation much more suspect

I like Wood, but he's as much a personality/presence as a player

Taylor would stand there and burn off solos and fills while Mick clapped and waited for it to be over, and Keef just went into a corner and riffed. Keef does little short riffs and hooks and clowns around with Ronnie

but it doesnt matter because to me the stones sound is about Charlie backing off the hi hat on snare hits and Keith playing off that in open G, how they sorta circle around the beat without ever really landing directly on top of it. and how it sounds like it's about to fall apart and it's in the pocket at the same time

so cool

and i also think wyman was key to that sound too

without the songwriting of Jagger/Richards, or Jaggers vocals or his drive to succeed, or his (IMO) often vastly underrated lyrics, or Richards driving the guitar's relationship to the beat, or Charlie's lift on the high hat, it's not the Stones

MT just added real nice to that dimension, added another entire dimension actually and with him some songs just took off

if i wanna hear woody i'll listen to gasoline alley or something



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-08 07:27 by pinkfloydthebarber.

Quote
pinkfloydthebarber
Woody's high point to me was the Some Girls record, and the 78 tour. and i thought he was focused pretty good on the Stripped record, and was good on the 75 tour.

but thats about it man

i still think Ronnie Woods best work was with Faces, and i think he is a good multi-instrumentalist, and a better songwriter than MT

but Woody's sound is not as defined as Taylor's and for certain his time is much less solid and intonation much more suspect

I like Wood, but he's as much a personality/presence as a player

Taylor would stand there and burn off solos and fills while Mick clapped and waited for it to be over, and Keef just went into a corner and riffed. Keef does little short riffs and hooks and clowns around with Ronnie

but it doesnt matter because to me the stones sound is about Charlie backing off the hi hat on snare hits and Keith playing off that in open G, how they sorta circle around the beat without ever really landing directly on top of it. and how it sounds like it's about to fall apart and it's in the pocket at the same time

so cool

and i also think wyman was key to that sound too

without the songwriting of Jagger/Richards, or Jaggers vocals or his drive to succeed, or his (IMO) often vastly underrated lyrics, or Richards driving the guitar's relationship to the beat, or Charlie's lift on the high hat, it's not the Stones

MT just added real nice to that dimension, added another entire dimension actually and with him some songs just took off

if i wanna hear woody i'll listen to gasoline alley or something

What he said.

Love Gasoline Alley, by the way...

Producer Glyn Johns said it all in Kent's Dark Stuff: Wood in the early years had a great style of his own. But musically he was the wrong choice for the Stones, didn't add much to them and degenerated to some kind of court jester.He didn't get the job for his playing.

Why is this turning into a Taylor vs. Wood-thread again? Wood didn't play on Ya Yas...

However, since you guys insist. This is Ronnie Wood in 1989.

The funky guitar solo here is trademark Ronnie. Name one other guitar player that plays like this. It's BS that he hasn't his own signature sound or style.

Quote
pinkfloydthebarber
Woody's high point to me was the Some Girls record, and the 78 tour. and i thought he was focused pretty good on the Stripped record, and was good on the 75 tour.

but thats about it man

i still think Ronnie Woods best work was with Faces, and i think he is a good multi-instrumentalist, and a better songwriter than MT

but Woody's sound is not as defined as Taylor's and for certain his time is much less solid and intonation much more suspect

I like Wood, but he's as much a personality/presence as a player

Taylor would stand there and burn off solos and fills while Mick clapped and waited for it to be over, and Keef just went into a corner and riffed. Keef does little short riffs and hooks and clowns around with Ronnie

but it doesnt matter because to me the stones sound is about Charlie backing off the hi hat on snare hits and Keith playing off that in open G, how they sorta circle around the beat without ever really landing directly on top of it. and how it sounds like it's about to fall apart and it's in the pocket at the same time

so cool

and i also think wyman was key to that sound too

without the songwriting of Jagger/Richards, or Jaggers vocals or his drive to succeed, or his (IMO) often vastly underrated lyrics, or Richards driving the guitar's relationship to the beat, or Charlie's lift on the high hat, it's not the Stones

MT just added real nice to that dimension, added another entire dimension actually and with him some songs just took off

if i wanna hear woody i'll listen to gasoline alley or something

Totally concur with those sentiments .

MT didn't overplay all the time. The impression was often the result of him being too loud, or his tone not being too good in the room...both of which have the same net result as overplaying.
Certainly an inspired player...but perhaps one who's inspiration needs managing.
Hense the difference betwen his consistently sublime recorded ouput with the band and his often inspired, but sometimes annoying, live work.

Quote
71Tele
Check out the tasty guitars (dare I say "weaving"?) at around 2:40, right before the verse. Not on Ya Yas.

Holy crap that was good! Never heard it like that. Talk about weaving, awesome!!

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
71Tele
Check out the tasty guitars (dare I say "weaving"?) at around 2:40, right before the verse. Not on Ya Yas.

Holy crap that was good! Never heard it like that. Talk about weaving, awesome!!

They better had put this version on YaYa's. No vocal overdub needed at all!

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
71Tele
Check out the tasty guitars (dare I say "weaving"?) at around 2:40, right before the verse. Not on Ya Yas.

Holy crap that was good! Never heard it like that. Talk about weaving, awesome!!

They better had put this version on YaYa's. No vocal overdub needed at all!

No but then it would have needed a Taylor overdub: he is terrible out of tune in the first half of the track!

Mathijs

Btw, I just checked the audience version of JJF, 11/27: I do not hear any difference in the guitar part. For whatever reason, Taylor indeed not take a solo on the 27th, like he did on many other nights.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
71Tele
Check out the tasty guitars (dare I say "weaving"?) at around 2:40, right before the verse. Not on Ya Yas.

Holy crap that was good! Never heard it like that. Talk about weaving, awesome!!

They better had put this version on YaYa's. No vocal overdub needed at all!

No but then it would have needed a Taylor overdub: he is terrible out of tune in the first half of the track!

Mathijs

It's live so it doesn't need to be perfect. Anyway this version rocks twice as much as the rather sterile YY's one.

Quote
kleermaker

It's live so it doesn't need to be perfect.

Err, right. What a dumb remark.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

It's live so it doesn't need to be perfect.

Err, right. What a dumb remark.

Mathijs

By quoting in such a way it's easy to make seem every remark "dumb". But it's your post that actually implies that a live version has to be perfect.

This version with Taylor "terrible out of tune in the first half of the track" as you state I highly prefer to the YY's version.

dumb remarks need no call-out on this board. it's assumed unless otherwise pointed out.

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

It's live so it doesn't need to be perfect.

Err, right. What a dumb remark.

Mathijs

By quoting in such a way it's easy to make seem every remark "dumb". But it's your post that actually implies that a live version has to be perfect.

This version with Taylor "terrible out of tune in the first half of the track" as you state I highly prefer to the YY's version.

What a load of crap. I bet you never even noticed Taylor being out of tune before I told you so.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

It's live so it doesn't need to be perfect.

Err, right. What a dumb remark.

Mathijs

By quoting in such a way it's easy to make seem every remark "dumb". But it's your post that actually implies that a live version has to be perfect.

This version with Taylor "terrible out of tune in the first half of the track" as you state I highly prefer to the YY's version.

What a load of crap. I bet you never even noticed Taylor being out of tune before I told you so.

Mathijs

In '69 it was usually Keith who was out of tune, especially when he played that Dan Armstrong, which seemed impossible to tune. But yeah, sometimes Taylor was out of tune. So what.

Quote
71Tele

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

It's live so it doesn't need to be perfect.

Err, right. What a dumb remark.

Mathijs

By quoting in such a way it's easy to make seem every remark "dumb". But it's your post that actually implies that a live version has to be perfect.

This version with Taylor "terrible out of tune in the first half of the track" as you state I highly prefer to the YY's version.

What a load of crap. I bet you never even noticed Taylor being out of tune before I told you so.

Mathijs

In '69 it was usually Keith who was out of tune, especially when he played that Dan Armstrong, which seemed impossible to tune. But yeah, sometimes Taylor was out of tune. So what.

is rocknroll supposed to be in tune or something? i thought that only applied to music....

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

It's live so it doesn't need to be perfect.

Err, right. What a dumb remark.

Mathijs

By quoting in such a way it's easy to make seem every remark "dumb". But it's your post that actually implies that a live version has to be perfect.

This version with Taylor "terrible out of tune in the first half of the track" as you state I highly prefer to the YY's version.

What a load of crap. I bet you never even noticed Taylor being out of tune before I told you so.

Mathijs

You and your "load of crap". Taylor's being out of tune or not is no problem to the version at all. You may disagree, but this is simply a matter of opinion. Call my opinion whatever you want if it makes you feel good.

Quote
71Tele

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

It's live so it doesn't need to be perfect.

Err, right. What a dumb remark.

Mathijs

By quoting in such a way it's easy to make seem every remark "dumb". But it's your post that actually implies that a live version has to be perfect.

This version with Taylor "terrible out of tune in the first half of the track" as you state I highly prefer to the YY's version.

What a load of crap. I bet you never even noticed Taylor being out of tune before I told you so.

Mathijs

In '69 it was usually Keith who was out of tune, especially when he played that Dan Armstrong, which seemed impossible to tune. But yeah, sometimes Taylor was out of tune. So what.

Nothing wrong - that happens, but who wants a live recording with an out of tune-guitar? I think that's what Mathijs is talking about in this case.

deleted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-08 18:37 by VT22.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
71Tele

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
kleermaker

It's live so it doesn't need to be perfect.

Err, right. What a dumb remark.

Mathijs

By quoting in such a way it's easy to make seem every remark "dumb". But it's your post that actually implies that a live version has to be perfect.

This version with Taylor "terrible out of tune in the first half of the track" as you state I highly prefer to the YY's version.

What a load of crap. I bet you never even noticed Taylor being out of tune before I told you so.

Mathijs

In '69 it was usually Keith who was out of tune, especially when he played that Dan Armstrong, which seemed impossible to tune. But yeah, sometimes Taylor was out of tune. So what.

Nothing wrong - that happens, but who wants a live recording with an out of tune-guitar? I think that's what Mathijs is talking about in this case.

that could be

but persoanlly i could care less about slightly out of tune guitars; keith is almost always out; listen to his guitar on ADTL on Exile even

on ya ya's for example i listen to the exquisite stuff, for example i've noticed Mick Taylor's sly little rhythm guitar bit on "Sympathy For the Devil" where he sneaks in those little Stax-y, Steve Cropperesque fills at the end of each verse

i mean that's just awesome

it's like how, if you listen, to how rather busy (in a good way) wyman is on the berry covers

i miss that guy in the band, too

but i mean if you want to talk about soloing, AND about weaving, listen hard to the SFTD version on ya ya's, especially the remastered version. on headphones. everybody knows about the solos. but the guitar interplay in that version is stunning and should be studied by every guitarist. it's both economical and devastating

please no more weaving talk. we've weft enough already.

Quote
CousinC
Producer Glyn Johns said it all in Kent's Dark Stuff: Wood in the early years had a great style of his own. But musically he was the wrong choice for the Stones, didn't add much to them and degenerated to some kind of court jester.He didn't get the job for his playing.

He must make a mean hot buttered rum if that's why they hired him...