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with sssoul
that wasn't for Altamont - that was for the owners of the second site that was planned for the show
(the first being Golden Gate Park, but the necessary permits weren't granted).
if memory serves, the owners of the second site apparently waited until things were already being set up
to suddenly announce that their permission was contingent on being paid a ton of money, getting a share in the film rights etc
so what would an affadavit and a restraining order have to do with that?
an affadavit affirming permission was granted with only mutually agreeable strings attached?
a restraining order to keep them from kicking the concert-preppers off the property?
or it could be BS for the movie, as you say
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with sssoul
smile: i know what an affadavit is, more or less, tomk! and i'm sure there were contracts involved -
if nothing else there would need to be delineations of who was financially/legally responsible to whom
for costs, damages, cleaning up, making sure them hippies were not fornicating on adjacent property, etc;
and the property owners would need to affirm that they permitted the whole shebang to take place;
and there would be insurance and assignment of the film rights and all that.
i'm not a lawyer either, by the way - i only grew up in a houseful of 'em.
i'm sure one of our fine resident legal iorrollers will shed way better light.
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71Tele
The even odder thing is that the guy's voice on the speaker phone that said "have you talked with Jagger?" was dubbed in. The later reissue of the movie had a different voice.
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bmuseed
Now for Belli..I thought he was a grandstander. He wanted us to break the law and stay at the second location...
saying... let them try and move hundreds of thousands of kids...nice advice from a lawyer--break the law.
I had gone to him to sue Filmways for jerking us around and creating this mess.
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bmuseed
PS: I said the "F" word 8 times in the original version and they had to cut me
so that you only hear me give the car count for parking...:-)
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with sssoul
thanks for your insights, bmuseed! fascinating as usual :E
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bmuseed
(never trust any company with the name American in it!)
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hbwriter
the maysles played so fast and loose with everything, who knows- outside of the concert footage, this film seems less and less relevant to me every year - so much of it is a sham, from creating the effect that the burritos opened altamont to dubbing in the burritos with a studio track
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bmuseed
And you know this because?
If by fast and loose you are talking about the editing process-sure --but as to the footage they use-absolutely not! I still think they have footage that shows the Angels not on the stage until they are called up after a guy charges the stage and flies thru the drum kit. The singer on the stage asks for someone to come up and help and the Angels came up to the stage and no one dared ask them to leave. This would blow a factual hole in the other urban myth of the Angels being hired as stage security.
After the film was out, I spoke with the Maysles and they were upset. They said that they had done SALESMAN about a door to door bible salesman, which they thought should have gotten acclaim for as a documentary and the thing that got them noticed and money was GIMME SHELTER. I was happy to see they got the the acclaim they deserved when GREY GARDENS, got commercialized and nominated for an academy award!! (unfortunately David wasn't around to see it)Albert now runs a film institute in NYC.
Thank you for sharing this insight. I love Salesman - a family favorite (we're kind of an odd tribe )...I had no idea the Mayles's did that too...I find I need to see a documentary several times (if it's good) as I often miss nuances in the first viewing. You've inspired me to watch Gimme Shelter again. I just finished Stanley Booth's True Adventures. Can you tell me your impressions of Stanley & his book - I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear your thoughts on this period of the Stones.
Thanks again!
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memphiscatsQuote
bmuseed
And you know this because?
If by fast and loose you are talking about the editing process-sure --but as to the footage they use-absolutely not! I still think they have footage that shows the Angels not on the stage until they are called up after a guy charges the stage and flies thru the drum kit. The singer on the stage asks for someone to come up and help and the Angels came up to the stage and no one dared ask them to leave. This would blow a factual hole in the other urban myth of the Angels being hired as stage security.
After the film was out, I spoke with the Maysles and they were upset. They said that they had done SALESMAN about a door to door bible salesman, which they thought should have gotten acclaim for as a documentary and the thing that got them noticed and money was GIMME SHELTER. I was happy to see they got the the acclaim they deserved when GREY GARDENS, got commercialized and nominated for an academy award!! (unfortunately David wasn't around to see it)Albert now runs a film institute in NYC.
Thank you for sharing this insight. I love Salesman - a family favorite (we're kind of an odd tribe )...I had no idea the Mayles's did that too...I find I need to see a documentary several times (if it's good) as I often miss nuances in the first viewing. You've inspired me to watch Gimme Shelter again. I just finished Stanley Booth's True Adventures. Can you tell me your impressions of Stanley & his book - I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear your thoughts on this period of the Stones.
Thanks again!
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deardoctortake1
For years I wondered about the change in voices over the phone with Mel Beli when Gimme shelter was re released. In 2007 at the private Shidoobee screening of the MSG footage, I asked Albert Maysles about the reason for the different voice. I figured it was due to legal reasons about using the now second more realistic voice. Albert had NO CLUE about what I was talking about, no clue about why a different voice would be used, and also doubted that a different voice was used. So we may never know unless my friend here on IORR Mr. Schneider can tell us.
Larry
I read books like True Adventures without thinking too much about accuracy... but I imagine if someone wrote something incorrect about me, it would annoy me. And since Mr. Booth didn't publish this book until 15 years after the events, it's no wonder some of his info is off. That said, I enjoyed his perspective on the times & appreciate his impressions - albeit slanted. His prose was stirring. Thank you so much for your thoughts - it's great to hear what you have to say. What a trip!Quote
bmuseed
Unfortunately I am biased against Stanley. His original book had so many errors as far as I was concerned..which he excused because of drugs. He was hiding the fact that he was doing a book deal from me and I feel his impression of me and my intent were clouded by his own 'guilt'and deception. I was disappointed. It helped me learn that you can't trust reporters or other books as they are slanted by the authors own opinions and perceptions..I have only met one reporter that changed their article to correct their misconception and it was a reveiwer of GIMME SHELTER for the NYPost--
Another reason why I liked the Maysles, as they showed the truth as close as it could be. Long live raw video..Quote
memphiscats
Thank you for sharing this insight. I love Salesman - a family favorite (we're kind of an odd tribe )...I had no idea the Mayles's did that too...I find I need to see a documentary several times (if it's good) as I often miss nuances in the first viewing. You've inspired me to watch Gimme Shelter again. I just finished Stanley Booth's True Adventures. Can you tell me your impressions of Stanley & his book - I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear your thoughts on this period of the Stones.
Thanks again!
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71TeleQuote
deardoctortake1
For years I wondered about the change in voices over the phone with Mel Beli when Gimme shelter was re released. In 2007 at the private Shidoobee screening of the MSG footage, I asked Albert Maysles about the reason for the different voice. I figured it was due to legal reasons about using the now second more realistic voice. Albert had NO CLUE about what I was talking about, no clue about why a different voice would be used, and also doubted that a different voice was used. So we may never know unless my friend here on IORR Mr. Schneider can tell us.
Larry
It definitely was a different voice used in the re-release, as I had seen the original version about a hundred times and knew that scene almost by heart; so when the reissue came out with a different voice it was quite striking. I thought I'd been had for believing all those years that the original voice was real.
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whitem8
I wanna know why Belli doesn't want to be a proctologist?
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bmuseed
I'll try and shed some light...the Maysles never nor would ever manipulate anything for a documentary
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deardoctortake1.Quote
bmuseed
I'll try and shed some light...the Maysles never nor would ever manipulate anything for a documentary
Actually not true, The Maysles moved the murder in the film from when it actually occurred after the Under My thumb false start(not in the film), to after the full Under My thumb. But while the murder is occurring, you hear the Stones playing the second Under My thumb, but the band on film is not playing. You have to compare the film with the audience recording to see it and hear it more clearly, but they did move the murder
Larry
Can you elaborate? I'm not gruesome - just curious about the facts.
Thank you.
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71TeleQuote
whitem8
I wanna know why Belli doesn't want to be a proctologist?
Because the guy on the phone was telling him the whole thing was a big pain in the ass.