Anybody know or saw a picture of a acoustic guitar, where Keith removed the 6 string like some of his Fender Telecaster guitars, Malcom and Micamber for example.
For the open g tuning ?

There's no way to tell definitively but assuming that this guitar is tuned to Open G, there is a strong likelihood he removed the 6th string here.





Aside from that, Keith almost always uses his acoustic in standard tuning thus, never removes the 6th string.

In the studio Keith does all sorts of things, removing a string for just a single take is not above speculation. He usually has a guitar in Nashville tuning laying around to ice the cake. MT says he keeps a Gibson acoustic in standard tuning and one in open G most the time. Acoustic guitars really come alive when tuned open and I'm sure Keith uses this fact to motivate and inspire him as much as possible.

But the direct answer is , Yes, he removes it every time he has to change strings himself. lol peace

Keith owns a 10-string Guild - which he played at the Gram Parsons tribute I believe (Wild Horses?).

Edit: Blue Lena has a picture of it:





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-03 23:48 by gwen.

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Justin
There's no way to tell definitively but assuming that this guitar is tuned to Open G, there is a strong likelihood he removed the 6th string here.

If you pause at 0:11 you can clearly see it's a 5-string.

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gwen
Keith owns a 10-string Guild - which he played at the Gram Parsons tribute I believe (Wild Horses?).

Good call...same one and setup here on the Twickenham DVD.

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gwen

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Justin
There's no way to tell definitively but assuming that this guitar is tuned to Open G, there is a strong likelihood he removed the 6th string here.

If you pause at 0:11 you can clearly see it's a 5-string.

Great, just as I thought. There'd be no reason for Keith to keep the 6th string in an Open G tuning just because he was on an acoustic guitar.

I still find it a bit odd that he does it that way. I use that tuning but I like to have the low octave D.....many old blues songs have lines which require that string.
I understand how it might rattle on an electric however I can damp that out very easily now.

anyway....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-03 23:59 by dadrob.

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Justin
There's no way to tell definitively but assuming that this guitar is tuned to Open G, there is a strong likelihood he removed the 6th string here.





Aside from that, Keith almost always uses his acoustic in standard tuning thus, never removes the 6th string.

Great performance of that cool song. I love it with acoustic guitars. No one can say the late era Stones didn't have transcendent performances

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dadrob
I still find it a bit odd that he does it that way. I use that tuning but I like to have the low octave D.....many old blues songs have lines which require that string.
I understand how it might rattle on an electric however I can damp that out very easily now.

anyway....

It makes perfect sense to me...even when you're playing the guitar in standard, any chord will have the root note on the bottom (or top depending on how you look at it) of the chord. That guarantee is eliminated when you have it in open G. You move up and down the fret board on that fifth string going from chord to chord...you have that annoying D-string sitting there doing nothing. Even if you muted the sucker--it gets in the way. And have you seen how Keith can strike his guitar? The last thing he wants is to rip through that chord and have that low D accientally ring out or maybe have the string literally rip out of the guitar considering the force he uses. Bottom line, Keith uses it for power chords...not blues slide. The low D string can go.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Justin
There's no way to tell definitively but assuming that this guitar is tuned to Open G, there is a strong likelihood he removed the 6th string here.





Aside from that, Keith almost always uses his acoustic in standard tuning thus, never removes the 6th string.

Great performance of that cool song. I love it with acoustic guitars. No one can say the late era Stones didn't have transcendent performances

Absolutely. I'm hoping this or any other of the '95 club shows is released on stonesarchive.

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gwen
Keith owns a 10-string Guild - which he played at the Gram Parsons tribute I believe (Wild Horses?).

Edit: Blue Lena has a picture of it:

Wow I mean Friggin WOW! That is one beautiful guitar. I'm trembling just looking at it. Sooo nice.
I play an instrument called a cuatro which also has 5 choruses of two strings each, from Puerto Rico.It makes so much sense for fingerstyle playing it's uncanny. I'll bet this is one sweet instrument. Thanks for the post. whew! peace

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Justin

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dadrob
I still find it a bit odd that he does it that way. I use that tuning but I like to have the low octave D.....many old blues songs have lines which require that string.
I understand how it might rattle on an electric however I can damp that out very easily now.

anyway....

It makes perfect sense to me...even when you're playing the guitar in standard, any chord will have the root note on the bottom (or top depending on how you look at it) of the chord. That guarantee is eliminated when you have it in open G. You move up and down the fret board on that fifth string going from chord to chord...you have that annoying D-string sitting there doing nothing. Even if you muted the sucker--it gets in the way. And have you seen how Keith can strike his guitar? The last thing he wants is to rip through that chord and have that low D accientally ring out or maybe have the string literally rip out of the guitar considering the force he uses. Bottom line, Keith uses it for power chords...not blues slide. The low D string can go.

yeah I hear ya but I must say that low D is rediculously easy to mute with the thumb of the fretting hand. I still think it is lazy and unnecessary to friggin remove the damn string. And if the song in in G, when you go to the V chord, it is incredibly sweet to have that low D bass note riding down below the chord. Plenty of options for a low bass note that works with the other chords too. I gotta call LAME on this one.

After reading Life I'm pretty certain Keith just got used to having that low string be the root for the chord because he started playing in open D and open E first. I'm guessin that after a couple of bad notes in the open G tuning while jamming with the boys, he ripped it off to make it simpler for the habits he had already developed while playing in open tuning.

For example, he certainly doesn't have any problems hitting a D major cord in standard tuning without accidently hitting the low E string and likely the low A string. If you were to use Keith logic and liked to play standard tuning songs in D, would you remove both the low A and the low E strings? I can just hear ya "this is my custom 4 string guitar...." Get a ukelele dude. He could have made it work with six strings, and the benefits of another bass string outweigh the work required to not hit it when you don't want to. Ask the pro bass players who use 5 or 6 string basses and the guitarists with 7 or 8 strings if they are limiting their playing by including the the extra strings. Quite the contrary.

Besides he missed the REAL benefit of having 5 strings on the neck. Fingerstyle playing without a pick. One string per finger, never have to adjust your picking hand to hit any given string. That makes for fast accurate picking and can simplify the many different fingerpicking patterns commonly used for rock and pop. Just my somewhat educated opinion. I'm curious what other guitarists who have used the open tunings think. Mathijs, munichHilton, 71Tele are you listening? peace

I appreciate your post but I don't agree with your assertions.

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Naturalust
For example, he certainly doesn't have any problems hitting a D major cord in standard tuning without accidently hitting the low E string and likely the low A string. If you were to use Keith logic and liked to play standard tuning songs in D, would you remove both the low A and the low E strings? I can just hear ya "this is my custom 4 string guitar...." Get a ukelele dude.

Yeah, how do you expect to play a G or an A chord, in the key of D when you've taken away the last two strings?? How do you insert fills...or take solos when you've taken away 2 other strings? The "Keith" logic does NOT apply here like you are suggesting.

Keith felt safe to take away that 6th string in an Open G tuning because he doesn't need it in order to fully play each power chord. It was his personal choice for the root note to remain the last note in the chord...when that is the case: the D string becomes optional at this point. So he optioned to remove it.

You make Keith sound as dumb as bag of hammers. Of course he doesn't have "problems" hitting the A and E string in a D major chord. Why should he? "Oh well because you said earlier that he wouldn't be able to mute strings when he strums chords blah blah blah" Yeah well if he's strapping on an acoustic in standard tuning--there's a strong chance he will NOT be striking chords with as much vigor. Each guitar--and TUNING--has a specific purpose. It's not as black and white as you are making it out to be. He'll use the appropriate tuning that's appropriate for what he wants to do with the guitar....it's not just flip of the coin. Do yourself a favor and study the way Keith plays different guitars. He needs each guitar and their tunings for different purposes...from him playing Angie to Jumpin Jack Flash to Let It Bleed to Dead Flowers to Brown Sugar...look at how he treats the guitar in each of those songs. Look at where his fingers are going, what they're doing and how many strings he's using.

Keith's method is logical not to mention personal. You're only coming at this simply because you happen to "like" that the D string is there. And that's lame.

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Justin
I appreciate your post but I don't agree with your assertions.
Yeah, how do you expect to play a G or an A chord, in the key of D when you've taken away the last two strings?? .

huh? pretty easy, just an E position bar type chord, 3rd fret and 5th fret respectively, still get the root on the bottom.

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Justin

How do you insert fills...or take solos when you've taken away 2 other strings? .

Fills are certainly not dependent on the bass strings and solos even less so, especially how Keith approaches 'em. He even mentiones this when describing MT's solo work and solo lead guitar work in specific in his book Life. Relegating it to the higher strings as kind of a "cut" to MT as I recall.

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Justin


Keith felt safe to take away that 6th string in an Open G tuning because he doesn't need it in order to fully play each power chord. It was his personal choice for the root note to remain the last note in the chord...when that is the case: the D string becomes optional at this point. So he optioned to remove it.
.

I would contend he felt safe because his habits learned from playing open D and open E wouldn't cause mistakes when he played open G.

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Justin

You make Keith sound as dumb as bag of hammers.
.

lmfoa, well that was not my intention, Maybe lazy as a lizard on a cold morning but certainly not dumb as a bag of nails.

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Justin

. Do yourself a favor and study the way Keith plays different guitars. He needs each guitar and their tunings for different purposes...from him playing Angie to Jumpin Jack Flash to Let It Bleed to Dead Flowers to Brown Sugar...look at how he treats the guitar in each of those songs. Look at where his fingers are going, what they're doing and how many strings he's using.
.

Well when he is actually playing these days and not prancing around and trying to be a showman, my best looks say he is using about 2 fingers on maybe one of two or three basic positions on the B and the G or D strings and not much else. Read what his bandmate and fellow guitarist Waddy W says about him in Life. And Keith himself...two fingers, five strings and one assxxxx wasn't it? Lazy but heartfelt.

Don't get me wrong, I love his playing, his style, his drummer, and his 5 string strung open G guitars (especially the Tele's)!

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Justin

You're only coming at this simply because you happen to "like" that the D string is there. And that's lame.

Well your right I do like it but that's not my only perspective. I like it because it's already there ...., tuned to a perfect low 5th, laying on the fretboard saying f uck me please. But do it when the time is right.

Basically I started with open D and E first and I remember having the exact same feeling as Keith must have. What good is that low string for the open G tonic chord? It gets in the way, wimper wimper. With humility comensurate with my bank balance I can say that I'm quite certain I can play every lick Keith can with an open G guitar but he can't do all I can because he is missing a string. What's lame about that? peace

I am glad to see a few anti 5 string posts. Like many others I faithfully removed the lower E for Open G for a short while; until I realized I like Open G a LOT better with the low D droning along.

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Palace Revolution 2000
I am glad to see a few anti 5 string posts.

Anti this or that isn't what this is about.

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Palace Revolution 2000
Like many others I faithfully removed the lower E for Open G for a short while; until I realized I like Open G a LOT better with the low D droning along.

as you wrote it here, it's all about personal preferences ...and for those who don't play open G tuned guitar - it's opinions.
so you like that low D string on - that's fine. I don't, but that doesn't make anything anti-this or that.

Keith was following his instincts and he proved them right when he nailed some of greatest riffs.
I'm sure he'll grab another differently tuned/stringed guitar when a song, riff or idea calls for it.

btw; good post, Justin.

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open-g

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Palace Revolution 2000
I am glad to see a few anti 5 string posts.

Anti this or that isn't what this is about.

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Palace Revolution 2000
Like many others I faithfully removed the lower E for Open G for a short while; until I realized I like Open G a LOT better with the low D droning along.

as you wrote it here, it's all about personal preferences ...and for those who don't play open G tuned guitar - it's opinions.
so you like that low D string on - that's fine. I don't, but that doesn't make anything anti-this or that.

Keith was following his instincts and he proved them right when he nailed some of greatest riffs.
I'm sure he'll grab another differently tuned/stringed guitar when a song, riff or idea calls for it.

btw; good post, Justin.

You're right OpenG. In music it is never about anti anything. It was a poor choice of words on my end; more about speed.
The trials of Net discussions

Well, thank goodness some of us have opinions and prefrences and aren't scared to voice them when an appropriate thread turns up.

I'm not anti-5 string, I just like to speculate on the what's and why's of Keith's attachment to that bastardization of the guitar.

Healthy debate is what drives this board. Call it pro vs con , anti- or not, gibson vs. fender, MT vs. RW it's all in good fun. In the end, we learn more about the fans than our fabulous Stones. Its just rock culture from a different (and hopefully diverse) point of view. lol peace

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Naturalust

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Justin

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dadrob
I still find it a bit odd that he does it that way. I use that tuning but I like to have the low octave D.....many old blues songs have lines which require that string.
I understand how it might rattle on an electric however I can damp that out very easily now.

anyway....

It makes perfect sense to me...even when you're playing the guitar in standard, any chord will have the root note on the bottom (or top depending on how you look at it) of the chord. That guarantee is eliminated when you have it in open G. You move up and down the fret board on that fifth string going from chord to chord...you have that annoying D-string sitting there doing nothing. Even if you muted the sucker--it gets in the way. And have you seen how Keith can strike his guitar? The last thing he wants is to rip through that chord and have that low D accientally ring out or maybe have the string literally rip out of the guitar considering the force he uses. Bottom line, Keith uses it for power chords...not blues slide. The low D string can go.

yeah I hear ya but I must say that low D is rediculously easy to mute with the thumb of the fretting hand. I still think it is lazy and unnecessary to friggin remove the damn string. And if the song in in G, when you go to the V chord, it is incredibly sweet to have that low D bass note riding down below the chord. Plenty of options for a low bass note that works with the other chords too. I gotta call LAME on this one.

After reading Life I'm pretty certain Keith just got used to having that low string be the root for the chord because he started playing in open D and open E first. I'm guessin that after a couple of bad notes in the open G tuning while jamming with the boys, he ripped it off to make it simpler for the habits he had already developed while playing in open tuning.

For example, he certainly doesn't have any problems hitting a D major cord in standard tuning without accidently hitting the low E string and likely the low A string. If you were to use Keith logic and liked to play standard tuning songs in D, would you remove both the low A and the low E strings? I can just hear ya "this is my custom 4 string guitar...." Get a ukelele dude. He could have made it work with six strings, and the benefits of another bass string outweigh the work required to not hit it when you don't want to. Ask the pro bass players who use 5 or 6 string basses and the guitarists with 7 or 8 strings if they are limiting their playing by including the the extra strings. Quite the contrary.

Besides he missed the REAL benefit of having 5 strings on the neck. Fingerstyle playing without a pick. One string per finger, never have to adjust your picking hand to hit any given string. That makes for fast accurate picking and can simplify the many different fingerpicking patterns commonly used for rock and pop. Just my somewhat educated opinion. I'm curious what other guitarists who have used the open tunings think. Mathijs, munichHilton, 71Tele are you listening? peace

You simply don't get it Naturalust. It's nothing to do with laziness or what other musicians can do with more strings - and a guitar with 7 or 8 or however many strings does not mean there are 7 or 8 or however many strings, it's still a 6 string set up. It's all about removing any distraction and possibility. It's a different way of playing. It's not playing a D in standard open - that's a different kind of playing. If he wanted to play "fingerstyle playing without a pick" don't you think he'd...fingerstyle play without a pick? Is there anything about that song, to you, that says "fingerstyle playing without a pick"?

Be careful how you throw around 'educated opinion'.

they are all color in the paint box kids....nothing more. I changing tunings to serve the music and I assume all good musicians are about the sounds and not just making poses and pulled girlies

To answer the question: Yes he did. He also had some 5 string guitars custom made.

Edit: I missed you asked about acoustic only.

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Keep On Rolling



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-05 02:01 by Rolling Hansie.

Well then, ignorant but happy works for me. Say dadrob can I borrow one of those mauve crayons for a minute? peace