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Doxa, I'm not sure what your smokin but maybe give some to Prince. SRV made a note for note version of Voodoo Chile? Yeah he did that cover but note for note is nowhere is sight. SRV didn't get the point? I can hardly contain my laughter at that one and then it's Prince exploded the music scene?
I know we are all entitled to our opinions but this is so silly I have to wonder what planet you are on? Minneapolis maybe? Nothing personal I assure you but slow down, take a deep breath , and then slow down some more please. peace.
you must not know a lot about prince. he turned the entire music scene upside down and is still as far as i know the only musician to have the #1 album, single and movie in the same week
Maybe I expressed myself unclearly. I didn't mean SRV not getting the point but the people who adored him and the blues guitar. SRV was a wonderful blues guitarist with a great sound (especially for the 80's), and Hendrix surely was too. But Hendrix was something very much more, too. And for the latter he really exploded the whole rock scene. I never could see a point in comparing SRV to Hendrix - only to one limited side of Hendrix. My ears don't hear SRV adding anything significant or personal to "Voodoo Chile". To my ears it as unnecessary remake of a way too obvious rock classic as is the version of the Stones of Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone" ((I find, for example, Prince's take on "Red House" more interesting and justified musically). In both cases, they try to catch a way too big fish, with too limited personal vision, to make anything memorable.
And to make myself clear. At the time when SRV came to scene I was really stunned by him. That was the time I really started listening to the blues stuff, and SRV was my favourite of the latast saying of the genre that started from, say, Charley Patton or BlindLemon Jefferson. But that didn't stopped my being impressed by Prince who was as far I could see making most interesting 'black' music of the day (and the latter is much richer category thatn just 'blues' which was pretty much 'whitenized' long ago). I mean, I could see in Prince a clear continuity from the Motown and James Brown, and Marvin Gaye, etc. The torch was just passed by. And at the same time Prince also took influences from many other contemporary 'pop' or 'rock' trends (which made me think of Hendrix). I followed his career through the 80's up to LOVESEXY album (was it 1989?), and each album was always a different happening, a new experiment in sounds, beats and songs. It was like back in the 60's when every album by The Beatles, or The Stones, or, if you like, Hendrix, was a new adventure, different compared to anything in the past: AROUND THE WORLD IN A DAY, 1999, PURPLE RAIN, PARADE, SIGN OF THE TIMES...
I know some people - pretty musch associated with what is now called 'classic rock' and then this rock/blues guitar purism - didn't get it (not then or now) but to me - and fortunately to many other people as well - that was the most interesting and fascinating new sound of the day. I lost the track of Prince's doings when he lost his name, or whatever happened, and I'd been listening ever since occasionally just some contingent hits a'la "Most Beatiful Girl of the World". Some people here seem to have some problems with Prince's ego, and that kind of thing, but I don't know anything about that. What I know is that he was the guy who really carried the torch through the 80's. Yeah, something good also happened during that decade...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-07 11:05 by Doxa.
You must be smokin the same stuff as Doxa. He sure never turned the whole music scene anywhere but towards mediocre pretentiousness, imnsho. I have been a part of the music scene and was touring constantly throughout the 80's , living in Los Angeles (when I was home). The only thing I got from Prince was aomething about how he managed to get his first records out which was somewhat less than traditional at that time.
I can see there are some people who adore that girlish boy and everyone has got something to say but I'm with Keith on this one. I haven't heard or listened to a Price song until this thread since the late 80's, probably like most people on this board. Good music generally stays with a person and his seems very transient to me. And listening now after all these years I'm convinced I haven't missed anything exciting by him. Kiss was an ok tune and He gave Sinead O'connor career with nothing compares to you, for all the good it did her. I'll give him a slight nod as a songwriter.
As far as the #1 Album single and movie in the same week, it must've been a rather dull week. peace.
he turned everything upside down by not only his methods but his decisions in the style of music he did and the controversy he was causing. he followed up a huge album purple rain with something completely different, almost 60's trippy stuff. people called that move a career killer back then yet he survived as a mainstream and popular artist for more than a decade after that. he wanted to release multiple albums a year and when warner bros. refused he legally changed his name and got himself out of his contract. he was the first major musician to release an album that was initially available only through the internet.
i also see a problem, you say you haven't listened to a prince tunes since the late 80's yet a majority of his best work was done in the 90's imo. THE GOLD EXPERIENCE is probably his best release ever.
I need to admit that I'm with Naturalust with this one. I don't really know Prince's works since LOVESEXY (that I didn't like very much any longer) but just those MTV/radio-well-known songs. For some reason I don't find his music interesting enough any longer to really listen to. I have felt that he lost the momentum when he was the leader of the scene, and haven't been able to really invent himself enough after that, or was somehow stuck or lost somewhere. But I still listen and dig the old stuff. But that's me and my impression. To make my previous analogy further, I am probably like Rolling Stones fans of the Brian Jones era, if you know what I mean....
- Doxa
Bingo!
I'd call somebody honest who speaks openly about himself. spill the beans about others it is not honesty, it's bimbos' thirst for attention and headlines.
Sure, Mick is aware of himself - it's a sign of the intelligence, the maturity and the ability to prevent others to drive you into a corner.
Jagger does not like to talk about his personal life and about other people, but he talks about the music with wit and passion. His interviews about Exile and Some Girls periods were much more interesting and meaningful than the KR's interviews.
In addition, he shares the colourful details, but does not repeat from time to time one memorized legend in which there is no grain of truth.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-07 12:37 by proudmary.
Well, honest might not be the right word then. You are right. Let's say less inhibited then or less controlled. He doesn't weigh his words on a silver scale everytime like Jagger tends to do. But maybe he should do?
what? there was that one album in the early 90's that had a lot of hits on it "cream", "diamonds and pearls", "gett off", "money don't matter 2 nite" and a few other lower charting songs. trust me the album with "most beautiful girl in the world" on it THE GOLD EXPERIENCE is his best album
+100 on everything you wrote in this thread. Spot on Doxa.
Yes. Drunken bitterness is not honesty.
Yeah wow. AC/DC.
No worries keefriffhard4life, I appreciate your depth of experience on this one. I'll have a listen to that The Gold Experience record and get back to ya. peace.
That 'girlish' boy? Ever see the Dave Chapelle bit where Charlie Murphy talks about pint sized Prince, in heels, kicking him and his friend's butts in basketball?
So you don't like Girlish Boys in rock, huh? I thought you liked Keith? You know, earringed, eye shadowed Keith? Or Mick from 1968 (See Rock & Roll Circus) through 1978 (SNL), and revived one last time for Bowie-Jagger 'Dancing In The Streets' video. Or Little Richard. Or Queen. Or Pete Townshend. Or Alice Cooper. Or Axl Rose. I remember a friend of mine when we were kids thought the Rolling Stones were rough guys and could kick some ass. I just looked at him. Have you ever heard of any of them ever being in a fight? I mean, besides Charlie clocking Mick?
I think Prince is one of the most manly men in rock. He has a James Brown ruthlessness when it comes to whipping a band into shape and keeping them there. Go to a Prince concert and you'll see tons of fine looking females dressed up and smelling good. Not that it matters, but I don't remember a large, visible gay crowd at his concerts. I've sat in the very back row at the top of an arena and there are regular black guys there, digging Prince and his funky music, showing their respect. That whole girly thing is contrived, like Mick's campy years. (See the Hey Negrita video). For a five foot two black guy to command the respect he does, and get the primo women he gets,while in high heels, there's something macho about that. I only wish I was half as girly.
Double Peace.
And he doesn't have a feminine whisper (maybe you're thinking of Michael Jackson?), more of a baritone voice when he talks. But he does have a fondness for crackers. Check out of this interview.
Drew
Hey it's a pantsless ass in assless pants.....Hardly complete ignorance Pie1 and hardly bragging, just the facts. Late 80's covers alot of his material, including the 1986 stuff you are advertising here.
As far as long hair goes, you couldn't be further from the truth. Princes hair is so "done up" it's hardly his own. Reminds me more of Little Richard in that way. There are alot of factors which point me to the girlish boy description, just listen to the dude talk like a lit'l kitten and his mannerisms and his over the top ego and the way he dresses and the like. I'm not suggesting at all that it is a bad thing, this girlish boy description, it worked for the Stones for a few years obviously. My favorite era in fact. peace.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-08 00:34 by Naturalust.
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Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: January 7, 2012 09:42
Quote
Doxa
. I always - now talking about 80's - heard more multi-talented Hendrix in Prince than I heard in Stevie Ray Vaughan - who was very much heralded the "new Hendrix", the latest guitar-hero in blues rock scene. I loved Stevie Ray but I always found the Hendrix comparison very odd (and Stevie Ray unfortunately took it too seriously and made note to note version of "Voodoo Chile".) I thought: "don't you get the whole point of Hendrix and the power his expression at all !!!" The point in both Hendrix and Prince is that they both exploded the whole scene big time. - Doxa
Doxa, I'm not sure what your smokin but maybe give some to Prince. SRV made a note for note version of Voodoo Chile? Yeah he did that cover but note for note is nowhere is sight. SRV didn't get the point? I can hardly contain my laughter at that one and then it's Prince exploded the music scene?
I know we are all entitled to our opinions but this is so silly I have to wonder what planet you are on? Minneapolis maybe? Nothing personal I assure you but slow down, take a deep breath , and then slow down some more please. peace.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: January 7, 2012 10:12
Quote
NaturalustQuote
Doxa
. I always - now talking about 80's - heard more multi-talented Hendrix in Prince than I heard in Stevie Ray Vaughan - who was very much heralded the "new Hendrix", the latest guitar-hero in blues rock scene. I loved Stevie Ray but I always found the Hendrix comparison very odd (and Stevie Ray unfortunately took it too seriously and made note to note version of "Voodoo Chile".) I thought: "don't you get the whole point of Hendrix and the power his expression at all !!!" The point in both Hendrix and Prince is that they both exploded the whole scene big time. - Doxa
Doxa, I'm not sure what your smokin but maybe give some to Prince. SRV made a note for note version of Voodoo Chile? Yeah he did that cover but note for note is nowhere is sight. SRV didn't get the point? I can hardly contain my laughter at that one and then it's Prince exploded the music scene?
I know we are all entitled to our opinions but this is so silly I have to wonder what planet you are on? Minneapolis maybe? Nothing personal I assure you but slow down, take a deep breath , and then slow down some more please. peace.
you must not know a lot about prince. he turned the entire music scene upside down and is still as far as i know the only musician to have the #1 album, single and movie in the same week
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 7, 2012 10:52
Quote
NaturalustQuote
Doxa
. I always - now talking about 80's - heard more multi-talented Hendrix in Prince than I heard in Stevie Ray Vaughan - who was very much heralded the "new Hendrix", the latest guitar-hero in blues rock scene. I loved Stevie Ray but I always found the Hendrix comparison very odd (and Stevie Ray unfortunately took it too seriously and made note to note version of "Voodoo Chile".) I thought: "don't you get the whole point of Hendrix and the power his expression at all !!!" The point in both Hendrix and Prince is that they both exploded the whole scene big time. - Doxa
Doxa, I'm not sure what your smokin but maybe give some to Prince. SRV made a note for note version of Voodoo Chile? Yeah he did that cover but note for note is nowhere is sight. SRV didn't get the point? I can hardly contain my laughter at that one and then it's Prince exploded the music scene?
Maybe I expressed myself unclearly. I didn't mean SRV not getting the point but the people who adored him and the blues guitar. SRV was a wonderful blues guitarist with a great sound (especially for the 80's), and Hendrix surely was too. But Hendrix was something very much more, too. And for the latter he really exploded the whole rock scene. I never could see a point in comparing SRV to Hendrix - only to one limited side of Hendrix. My ears don't hear SRV adding anything significant or personal to "Voodoo Chile". To my ears it as unnecessary remake of a way too obvious rock classic as is the version of the Stones of Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone" ((I find, for example, Prince's take on "Red House" more interesting and justified musically). In both cases, they try to catch a way too big fish, with too limited personal vision, to make anything memorable.
And to make myself clear. At the time when SRV came to scene I was really stunned by him. That was the time I really started listening to the blues stuff, and SRV was my favourite of the latast saying of the genre that started from, say, Charley Patton or BlindLemon Jefferson. But that didn't stopped my being impressed by Prince who was as far I could see making most interesting 'black' music of the day (and the latter is much richer category thatn just 'blues' which was pretty much 'whitenized' long ago). I mean, I could see in Prince a clear continuity from the Motown and James Brown, and Marvin Gaye, etc. The torch was just passed by. And at the same time Prince also took influences from many other contemporary 'pop' or 'rock' trends (which made me think of Hendrix). I followed his career through the 80's up to LOVESEXY album (was it 1989?), and each album was always a different happening, a new experiment in sounds, beats and songs. It was like back in the 60's when every album by The Beatles, or The Stones, or, if you like, Hendrix, was a new adventure, different compared to anything in the past: AROUND THE WORLD IN A DAY, 1999, PURPLE RAIN, PARADE, SIGN OF THE TIMES...
I know some people - pretty musch associated with what is now called 'classic rock' and then this rock/blues guitar purism - didn't get it (not then or now) but to me - and fortunately to many other people as well - that was the most interesting and fascinating new sound of the day. I lost the track of Prince's doings when he lost his name, or whatever happened, and I'd been listening ever since occasionally just some contingent hits a'la "Most Beatiful Girl of the World". Some people here seem to have some problems with Prince's ego, and that kind of thing, but I don't know anything about that. What I know is that he was the guy who really carried the torch through the 80's. Yeah, something good also happened during that decade...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-07 11:05 by Doxa.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: January 7, 2012 11:26
Quote
keefriffhard4life
you must not know a lot about prince. he turned the entire music scene upside down
You must be smokin the same stuff as Doxa. He sure never turned the whole music scene anywhere but towards mediocre pretentiousness, imnsho. I have been a part of the music scene and was touring constantly throughout the 80's , living in Los Angeles (when I was home). The only thing I got from Prince was aomething about how he managed to get his first records out which was somewhat less than traditional at that time.
I can see there are some people who adore that girlish boy and everyone has got something to say but I'm with Keith on this one. I haven't heard or listened to a Price song until this thread since the late 80's, probably like most people on this board. Good music generally stays with a person and his seems very transient to me. And listening now after all these years I'm convinced I haven't missed anything exciting by him. Kiss was an ok tune and He gave Sinead O'connor career with nothing compares to you, for all the good it did her. I'll give him a slight nod as a songwriter.
As far as the #1 Album single and movie in the same week, it must've been a rather dull week. peace.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: January 7, 2012 11:46
Quote
NaturalustQuote
keefriffhard4life
you must not know a lot about prince. he turned the entire music scene upside down
You must be smokin the same stuff as Doxa. He sure never turned the whole music scene anywhere but towards mediocre pretentiousness, imnsho. I have been a part of the music scene and was touring constantly throughout the 80's , living in Los Angeles (when I was home). The only thing I got from Prince was aomething about how he managed to get his first records out which was somewhat less than traditional at that time.
I can see there are some people who adore that girlish boy and everyone has got something to say but I'm with Keith on this one. I haven't heard or listened to a Price song until this thread since the late 80's, probably like most people on this board. Good music generally stays with a person and his seems very transient to me. And listening now after all these years I'm convinced I haven't missed anything exciting by him. Kiss was an ok tune and He gave Sinead O'connor career with nothing compares to you, for all the good it did her. I'll give him a slight nod as a songwriter.
As far as the #1 Album single and movie in the same week, it must've been a rather dull week. peace.
he turned everything upside down by not only his methods but his decisions in the style of music he did and the controversy he was causing. he followed up a huge album purple rain with something completely different, almost 60's trippy stuff. people called that move a career killer back then yet he survived as a mainstream and popular artist for more than a decade after that. he wanted to release multiple albums a year and when warner bros. refused he legally changed his name and got himself out of his contract. he was the first major musician to release an album that was initially available only through the internet.
i also see a problem, you say you haven't listened to a prince tunes since the late 80's yet a majority of his best work was done in the 90's imo. THE GOLD EXPERIENCE is probably his best release ever.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 7, 2012 11:49
I's alright, Naturalust, I know people who say the same thing you say about Prince, about Bob Dylan, or even about The Rolling Stones, and even they've been part of the music scene and touring and living whoknowswhere. peace.
Of the 80's huge ones. I have always felt like Michael Jackson was the Beatles of the decade, and Prince the 'not so popular and easy listenable but digged by cooler people' Stones... and like The Beatles, Jackson never really survived the mad decade, but Prince continued, and still seems to gather nice audiences wherever he plays...
- Doxa
Of the 80's huge ones. I have always felt like Michael Jackson was the Beatles of the decade, and Prince the 'not so popular and easy listenable but digged by cooler people' Stones... and like The Beatles, Jackson never really survived the mad decade, but Prince continued, and still seems to gather nice audiences wherever he plays...
- Doxa
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 7, 2012 12:03
Quote
keefriffhard4life
i also see a problem, you say you haven't listened to a prince tunes since the late 80's yet a majority of his best work was done in the 90's imo. THE GOLD EXPERIENCE is probably his best release ever.
I need to admit that I'm with Naturalust with this one. I don't really know Prince's works since LOVESEXY (that I didn't like very much any longer) but just those MTV/radio-well-known songs. For some reason I don't find his music interesting enough any longer to really listen to. I have felt that he lost the momentum when he was the leader of the scene, and haven't been able to really invent himself enough after that, or was somehow stuck or lost somewhere. But I still listen and dig the old stuff. But that's me and my impression. To make my previous analogy further, I am probably like Rolling Stones fans of the Brian Jones era, if you know what I mean....
- Doxa
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
proudmary
()
Date: January 7, 2012 12:04
Quote
Doxa
Of the 80's huge ones. I have always felt like Michael Jackson was the Beatles of the decade, and Prince the 'not so popular and easy listenable but digged by cooler people' Stones... and like The Beatles, Jackson never really survived the mad decade, but Prince continued, and still seems to gather nice audiences wherever he plays...
- Doxa
Bingo!
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: January 7, 2012 12:18
I have always felt like Michael Jackson was the Beatles of the decade, and Prince the 'not so popular and easy listenable but digged by cooler people' Stones
yes, lots of important choices to be done for standing on the cooler side....Donovan/Dylan-Led Zeppelin/Black Sabbath-Sex Pistols/The Clash-Bob Marley/U Roy-Radiohead/Dinosaur Jr...for your confusion...
2 1 2 0
yes, lots of important choices to be done for standing on the cooler side....Donovan/Dylan-Led Zeppelin/Black Sabbath-Sex Pistols/The Clash-Bob Marley/U Roy-Radiohead/Dinosaur Jr...for your confusion...
2 1 2 0
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
proudmary
()
Date: January 7, 2012 12:22
Quote
StoneageQuote
treaclefingersQuote
Stoneage
At least Keith says something in the interviews. The minute information you get from interviewing Jagger you have to interpret first because he never says anything straight out. I remember how Mick dismissed Springsteen just by saying something mundane. You have to interpret his face expression to understand what he means.
90% of communication is non-verbal....I think Mick 'gets' that.
Sure. But I think the bottom line is that Mick is much more calculating and aware of himself than Keith. Therefore also less honest.
I'd call somebody honest who speaks openly about himself. spill the beans about others it is not honesty, it's bimbos' thirst for attention and headlines.
Sure, Mick is aware of himself - it's a sign of the intelligence, the maturity and the ability to prevent others to drive you into a corner.
Jagger does not like to talk about his personal life and about other people, but he talks about the music with wit and passion. His interviews about Exile and Some Girls periods were much more interesting and meaningful than the KR's interviews.
In addition, he shares the colourful details, but does not repeat from time to time one memorized legend in which there is no grain of truth.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-07 12:37 by proudmary.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 7, 2012 13:09
To back up Proudmary, I think that the term "honesty" is not correctly used by Keith Richards "defenders". Being honest is not any justification for talking any crap or talk out loud any random thoughts that might occur in the (drunken) mind. It is not either a justification for acting stupid (saying tasteles, stupid remarks, such as saying stuff like "Is that referee a Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder?" - remember that one?, etc.). Some people seem to give Keith a free pass with this claim of "honesty" but I think that is totally misplaced. Okay, Keith does that, says "what he thinks" without a mature reflection, especially when he is encouraged by cheering people to do that, but I think it is good that there are people who actually say to him (as people tend to say to anyone who talks childishly/stupidly) etc, "Shut up, Keith".
Yeah,, Keith's stories/interviews/one-liners/remrks etc. are very much more entertaining than Mick's silence or saying nothings, but from the point of view or the truth concerning the factual reality they are very questionable. Keith seemingly has long ago confused reality with his fantasies; to distinguih what is actually possible or likely from his wishes/constructions, and the latter is very much determined by what he thinks people expect him to say. Being 'honest' is not just to consult or listen one's instant feelings and desires but relate them to reality. Reading LIFE is a testimony that Keith simply lies too much to be called an honest person. Besides being 'honest' even towards one's feelings is a tough job. To really articulate one's true feelings is hard, and I think Keith does very lazy job in that, too. (But like great artists, he does that with his music very well.)
Ugh. I hope I made my point clear that I don't like the way the term "honesty" is many times associated to Keith Richards (outside his art of music). At least if the term has any of its traditional honoric meaning.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-07 13:24 by Doxa.
Yeah,, Keith's stories/interviews/one-liners/remrks etc. are very much more entertaining than Mick's silence or saying nothings, but from the point of view or the truth concerning the factual reality they are very questionable. Keith seemingly has long ago confused reality with his fantasies; to distinguih what is actually possible or likely from his wishes/constructions, and the latter is very much determined by what he thinks people expect him to say. Being 'honest' is not just to consult or listen one's instant feelings and desires but relate them to reality. Reading LIFE is a testimony that Keith simply lies too much to be called an honest person. Besides being 'honest' even towards one's feelings is a tough job. To really articulate one's true feelings is hard, and I think Keith does very lazy job in that, too. (But like great artists, he does that with his music very well.)
Ugh. I hope I made my point clear that I don't like the way the term "honesty" is many times associated to Keith Richards (outside his art of music). At least if the term has any of its traditional honoric meaning.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-07 13:24 by Doxa.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Pie1
()
Date: January 7, 2012 13:25
Did someone say 'assless pants' ?
So essentially you're speaking from a position of complete ignorance and bragging about it ? And 'girlish boy', on a Stones board, seriously ? Because he has long hair, presumably.
Anyway, for anyone interested, the latest from the über-active Prince bootleg world, a great batch of demos from 1986 :
[dabang319.blogspot.com]
Quote
Naturalust
I can see there are some people who adore that girlish boy and everyone has got something to say but I'm with Keith on this one. I haven't heard or listened to a Price song until this thread since the late 80's
So essentially you're speaking from a position of complete ignorance and bragging about it ? And 'girlish boy', on a Stones board, seriously ? Because he has long hair, presumably.
Anyway, for anyone interested, the latest from the über-active Prince bootleg world, a great batch of demos from 1986 :
[dabang319.blogspot.com]
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: January 7, 2012 13:54
Quote
proudmaryQuote
StoneageQuote
treaclefingersQuote
Stoneage
At least Keith says something in the interviews. The minute information you get from interviewing Jagger you have to interpret first because he never says anything straight out. I remember how Mick dismissed Springsteen just by saying something mundane. You have to interpret his face expression to understand what he means.
90% of communication is non-verbal....I think Mick 'gets' that.
Sure. But I think the bottom line is that Mick is much more calculating and aware of himself than Keith. Therefore also less honest.
I'd call somebody honest who speaks openly about himself. spill the beans about others it is not honesty, it's bimbos' thirst for attention and headlines.
Sure, Mick is aware of himself - it's a sign of the intelligence, the maturity and the ability to prevent others to drive you into a corner.
Jagger does not like to talk about his personal life and about other people, but he talks about the music with wit and passion. His interviews about Exile and Some Girls periods were much more interesting and meaningful than the KR's interviews.
In addition, he shares the colourful details, but does not repeat from time to time one memorized legend in which there is no grain of truth.
Well, honest might not be the right word then. You are right. Let's say less inhibited then or less controlled. He doesn't weigh his words on a silver scale everytime like Jagger tends to do. But maybe he should do?
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
drewmaster
()
Date: January 7, 2012 14:21
The blue-collar tough guy thing does surface sometimes. Keith on George Michael: "Shave and go home. He's a wimp in disguise."
[www.iorr.org] (thanks SwayStones!!)
Drew
[www.iorr.org] (thanks SwayStones!!)
Drew
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: January 7, 2012 14:49
Quote
DoxaQuote
keefriffhard4life
i also see a problem, you say you haven't listened to a prince tunes since the late 80's yet a majority of his best work was done in the 90's imo. THE GOLD EXPERIENCE is probably his best release ever.
I need to admit that I'm with Naturalust with this one. I don't really know Prince's works since LOVESEXY (that I didn't like very much any longer) but just those MTV/radio-well-known songs. For some reason I don't find his music interesting enough any longer to really listen to. I have felt that he lost the momentum when he was the leader of the scene, and haven't been able to really invent himself enough after that, or was somehow stuck or lost somewhere. But I still listen and dig the old stuff. But that's me and my impression. To make my previous analogy further, I am probably like Rolling Stones fans of the Brian Jones era, if you know what I mean....
- Doxa
what? there was that one album in the early 90's that had a lot of hits on it "cream", "diamonds and pearls", "gett off", "money don't matter 2 nite" and a few other lower charting songs. trust me the album with "most beautiful girl in the world" on it THE GOLD EXPERIENCE is his best album
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: January 7, 2012 17:30
Quote
Doxa
That was cool that Prince's take on Hendrix tune.. a nice version; he put his own stance on it. I don't think Prince tried to "pull of" anything. I see that more like an inspired tribute.
Besides, I find it a bit odd the argument that Prince have no "blues" etc. There are (puristic) arguments according to which Hendrix didn't have no "real" blues but just messsing the thing with his guitar skills and latest sound experiments and pop influences, including Jagger-like showmanship. Yeah, he surely had no 'pure' blues attitude as, say, Clapton or Peter Green or Mick Taylor has... you know those serious minded guys who learned the blues from records note by note, not to forget the real authentic heroes from Chicago and Delta, etc.
In a way I see a lot in Prince that there is in Jimi Hendrix. Both of the guys had in them almost the whole heritage of black music so far and they transmit it in their stuff, but most of all, were/are always looking for new challenges, and finding new ways of expression by the means of the day. Both are incredibly talented in doing so. When I say hat I see in Prince the 'black heritage', I mean I can see and hear there Hendrix as I can see and hear there James Brown, or, even The Stones, and many else, who knows, even Robert Johnson if you like. And he mixed it all with the latest dance music and trends - of which he was very very much creating then (the 'Minneapolis' sound, etc.) He was not looking back but going forward (as he still probably is); that's as Hendrixique as it can be. I always - now talking about 80's - heard more multi-talented Hendrix in Prince than I heard in Stevie Ray Vaughan - who was very much heralded the "new Hendrix", the latest guitar-hero in blues rock scene. I loved Stevie Ray but I always found the Hendrix comparison very odd (and Stevie Ray unfortunately took it too seriously and made note to note version of "Voodoo Chile".) I thought: "don't you get the whole point of Hendrix and the power his expression at all !!!" The point in both Hendrix and Prince is that they both exploded the whole scene big time. Seemingly for many who had decided that the standards of good music - especially for white audiences concerning the standards of good 'black music' - were cemented during the seventies, or 60's, or 50's, or 40's, etc. Prince was not easy to get. I hear that in Keith's comment and in many other comments here. Yeah, it wonderful to remember the golden days of Motown, or Chess, or even the cotton fields, but hey, the music - as the art of self-expression - didn't stopped there. What I have always found so impressive within black Amerucan artists is their contemporary touch; they really don't cry for nostalgia. In this sense, I think Mick Jagger might be the "blackest" guy of the whole British R&B scene... (by the way, Jagger even tried absorb Prince - of course, being the hottest thing at the time - to his solo stuff but that was out of his reach).
- Doxa
+100 on everything you wrote in this thread. Spot on Doxa.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: January 7, 2012 17:33
Quote
Doxa
To back up Proudmary, I think that the term "honesty" is not correctly used by Keith Richards "defenders". Being honest is not any justification for talking any crap or talk out loud any random thoughts that might occur in the (drunken) mind. It is not either a justification for acting stupid (saying tasteles, stupid remarks, such as saying stuff like "Is that referee a Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder?" - remember that one?, etc.). Some people seem to give Keith a free pass with this claim of "honesty" but I think that is totally misplaced. Okay, Keith does that, says "what he thinks" without a mature reflection, especially when he is encouraged by cheering people to do that, but I think it is good that there are people who actually say to him (as people tend to say to anyone who talks childishly/stupidly) etc, "Shut up, Keith".
Yeah,, Keith's stories/interviews/one-liners/remrks etc. are very much more entertaining than Mick's silence or saying nothings, but from the point of view or the truth concerning the factual reality they are very questionable. Keith seemingly has long ago confused reality with his fantasies; to distinguih what is actually possible or likely from his wishes/constructions, and the latter is very much determined by what he thinks people expect him to say. Being 'honest' is not just to consult or listen one's instant feelings and desires but relate them to reality. Reading LIFE is a testimony that Keith simply lies too much to be called an honest person. Besides being 'honest' even towards one's feelings is a tough job. To really articulate one's true feelings is hard, and I think Keith does very lazy job in that, too. (But like great artists, he does that with his music very well.)
Ugh. I hope I made my point clear that I don't like the way the term "honesty" is many times associated to Keith Richards (outside his art of music). At least if the term has any of its traditional honoric meaning.
- Doxa
Yes. Drunken bitterness is not honesty.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: January 7, 2012 17:37
Quote
letitloose
He says it like he sees it. oh, and he has always been sweet to ACDC . So he he does tip his hat where deserved.
Yeah wow. AC/DC.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: January 7, 2012 18:40
didn't he also called REM a cult band....Bowie a poseur.... Elton John who knows what he didn't call Elton...and so on and so on....
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: January 7, 2012 19:45
Quote
keefriffhard4lifeQuote
DoxaQuote
keefriffhard4life
i also see a problem, you say you haven't listened to a prince tunes since the late 80's yet a majority of his best work was done in the 90's imo. THE GOLD EXPERIENCE is probably his best release ever.
I need to admit that I'm with Naturalust with this one. I don't really know Prince's works since LOVESEXY (that I didn't like very much any longer) but just those MTV/radio-well-known songs. For some reason I don't find his music interesting enough any longer to really listen to. I have felt that he lost the momentum when he was the leader of the scene, and haven't been able to really invent himself enough after that, or was somehow stuck or lost somewhere. But I still listen and dig the old stuff. But that's me and my impression. To make my previous analogy further, I am probably like Rolling Stones fans of the Brian Jones era, if you know what I mean....
- Doxa
what? there was that one album in the early 90's that had a lot of hits on it "cream", "diamonds and pearls", "gett off", "money don't matter 2 nite" and a few other lower charting songs. trust me the album with "most beautiful girl in the world" on it THE GOLD EXPERIENCE is his best album
No worries keefriffhard4life, I appreciate your depth of experience on this one. I'll have a listen to that The Gold Experience record and get back to ya. peace.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: January 7, 2012 20:19
Quote
Naturalust
I can see there are some people who adore that girlish boy.
That 'girlish' boy? Ever see the Dave Chapelle bit where Charlie Murphy talks about pint sized Prince, in heels, kicking him and his friend's butts in basketball?
So you don't like Girlish Boys in rock, huh? I thought you liked Keith? You know, earringed, eye shadowed Keith? Or Mick from 1968 (See Rock & Roll Circus) through 1978 (SNL), and revived one last time for Bowie-Jagger 'Dancing In The Streets' video. Or Little Richard. Or Queen. Or Pete Townshend. Or Alice Cooper. Or Axl Rose. I remember a friend of mine when we were kids thought the Rolling Stones were rough guys and could kick some ass. I just looked at him. Have you ever heard of any of them ever being in a fight? I mean, besides Charlie clocking Mick?
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: January 7, 2012 20:40
Man I hit some nerves with the girlish boy comment. Blame it on Muddy Waters. Yeah 24 I love Keith as much as the next fan, who couldn't? As far as the Stones are concerned it worked for them for a few years in the late 60's and early 70's. After that, not so much. I think Anita was the key to all that. If you've read Life you know the KR is far from a girlish boy in both appearance and attitude. He wouldn't be caught dead with assless pants I'm pretty sure.
We are talking about Prince here and I think the girlish boy comment is appropriate. Just listen to the feminine whisper the guy tries to use in normal conversation. A mannish boy he ain't.
Please keep Axl Rose out of it..... I'm going to need to eat sometime today and would like to retain the contents of my stomach. peace.
We are talking about Prince here and I think the girlish boy comment is appropriate. Just listen to the feminine whisper the guy tries to use in normal conversation. A mannish boy he ain't.
Please keep Axl Rose out of it..... I'm going to need to eat sometime today and would like to retain the contents of my stomach. peace.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: January 7, 2012 20:51
Quote
Naturalust
We are talking about Prince here and I think the girlish boy comment is appropriate. Just listen to the feminine whisper the guy tries to use in normal conversation. A mannish boy he ain't.
peace.
I think Prince is one of the most manly men in rock. He has a James Brown ruthlessness when it comes to whipping a band into shape and keeping them there. Go to a Prince concert and you'll see tons of fine looking females dressed up and smelling good. Not that it matters, but I don't remember a large, visible gay crowd at his concerts. I've sat in the very back row at the top of an arena and there are regular black guys there, digging Prince and his funky music, showing their respect. That whole girly thing is contrived, like Mick's campy years. (See the Hey Negrita video). For a five foot two black guy to command the respect he does, and get the primo women he gets,while in high heels, there's something macho about that. I only wish I was half as girly.
Double Peace.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
drewmaster
()
Date: January 7, 2012 20:55
Quote
24FPSQuote
Naturalust
We are talking about Prince here and I think the girlish boy comment is appropriate. Just listen to the feminine whisper the guy tries to use in normal conversation. A mannish boy he ain't.
peace.
I think Prince is one of the most manly men in rock. He has a James Brown ruthlessness when it comes to whipping a band into shape and keeping them there. Go to a Prince concert and you'll see tons of fine looking females dressed up and smelling good. Not that it matters, but I don't remember a large, visible gay crowd at his concerts. I've sat in the very back row at the top of an arena and there are regular black guys there, digging Prince and his funky music, showing their respect. That whole girly thing is contrived, like Mick's campy years. (See the Hey Negrita video). For a five foot two black guy to command the respect he does, and get the primo women he gets,while in high heels, there's something macho about that. I only wish I was half as girly.
Double Peace.
And he doesn't have a feminine whisper (maybe you're thinking of Michael Jackson?), more of a baritone voice when he talks. But he does have a fondness for crackers. Check out of this interview.
Drew
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: January 7, 2012 22:08
Yeah more baritone than I recall, but certainly whisperishly feminine. As far as whipping a band in shape I'm all for that. When he's paying the expenses, he's the artist , he's the boss. I'm glad he has a vision and enough whatever to pull it off.
What I got from it is that admits Sly was his biggest influence and he laments not owning his purple rain and when doves cry masters (Warners probably still does), BECAUSE if he did he feels he could do like David Bowie did and sign the rights to his whole catalog away for $90,000,000, like Bowie just did. Wow! Thats a bit pretentious dontcha think? He sure wants us to think he has that level of success.
Maybe he will find a way to carve a living out of the distressed music biz, I hope he does. The cracker was probably a set up to show us all how down to earth he is and to try to be sexy. I can't just wonder what a guy like that would look like after 3 weeks in the woods, he's got the MJ syndrome and it's not a particularly healthy approach to living. peace.
What I got from it is that admits Sly was his biggest influence and he laments not owning his purple rain and when doves cry masters (Warners probably still does), BECAUSE if he did he feels he could do like David Bowie did and sign the rights to his whole catalog away for $90,000,000, like Bowie just did. Wow! Thats a bit pretentious dontcha think? He sure wants us to think he has that level of success.
Maybe he will find a way to carve a living out of the distressed music biz, I hope he does. The cracker was probably a set up to show us all how down to earth he is and to try to be sexy. I can't just wonder what a guy like that would look like after 3 weeks in the woods, he's got the MJ syndrome and it's not a particularly healthy approach to living. peace.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
microvibe
()
Date: January 7, 2012 22:35
a great musician does'nt always write great songs.this is where prince lose's me. i can't think of one song he has written that i like.he is not the only one out there that can play well but don't deliver the goods.imho.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
tomcasagranda
()
Date: January 7, 2012 23:26
Prince has written some good stuff, granted, but I prefer Herbie Hancock's cover of Thieves In The Temple. Its funkier by a country mile.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: January 7, 2012 23:37
Quote
Pie1
Did someone say 'assless pants' ?Quote
Naturalust
I can see there are some people who adore that girlish boy and everyone has got something to say but I'm with Keith on this one. I haven't heard or listened to a Price song until this thread since the late 80's
So essentially you're speaking from a position of complete ignorance and bragging about it ? And 'girlish boy', on a Stones board, seriously ? Because he has long hair, presumably.
Anyway, for anyone interested, the latest from the über-active Prince bootleg world, a great batch of demos from 1986 :
[dabang319.blogspot.com]
Hey it's a pantsless ass in assless pants.....Hardly complete ignorance Pie1 and hardly bragging, just the facts. Late 80's covers alot of his material, including the 1986 stuff you are advertising here.
As far as long hair goes, you couldn't be further from the truth. Princes hair is so "done up" it's hardly his own. Reminds me more of Little Richard in that way. There are alot of factors which point me to the girlish boy description, just listen to the dude talk like a lit'l kitten and his mannerisms and his over the top ego and the way he dresses and the like. I'm not suggesting at all that it is a bad thing, this girlish boy description, it worked for the Stones for a few years obviously. My favorite era in fact. peace.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-08 00:34 by Naturalust.
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
Rolling Hansie
()
Date: January 7, 2012 23:38
I have seen Prince live only once. Way back in the summer of 1992. I wasn't a big fan of his music, but he was playing in my neighbourhood and I decided to go. Never had any regrets. That show rocked.
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
Re: Why Does Keith Richards Despise Prince ?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: January 8, 2012 01:21
What I never liked about Prince is that he tried to wrap his music in hipness.
For example for his 1st big show in France (Paris'86) he made sure he had rows of celebrities invited at his show. I mean having Catherine Deneuve coming to your gig is nice (I guess she was paid to come) but how TF does that make the music better?
Would James Brown have done this in the 60's? NO!
Same for his after-shows : they quickly became a way for the hip crowd to say "hey I was there last night!"
At least the Stones waited several decades to put silly bimbos at the front row of their club gigs right? (remember the Paadiso'95 shows?)
For example for his 1st big show in France (Paris'86) he made sure he had rows of celebrities invited at his show. I mean having Catherine Deneuve coming to your gig is nice (I guess she was paid to come) but how TF does that make the music better?
Would James Brown have done this in the 60's? NO!
Same for his after-shows : they quickly became a way for the hip crowd to say "hey I was there last night!"
At least the Stones waited several decades to put silly bimbos at the front row of their club gigs right? (remember the Paadiso'95 shows?)
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