A big thing that elevated Mick T.'s playing may have been him really soloing on each chord, hitting the chord tones and arpeggios, whereas Ronnie seems more of a pentatonic scale/key player, although I'm sure he does pay attention to underlying chords (maybe more at some times than others!). Any thoughts from legit musicians here?

We are talking about Jazz here? They both use (pentatonic) scales, some arpeggios, hit the chords and play (slide) melodies. Listen to Rolling Stones coverbands. Whose solos are covered and copied most by guitarists over the last 49 years: Taylor's or Wood's ? That's the comparison basically.

They are two deeply different guitarists and they play in a very different way. Maybe Ronnie is more like Brian in the way he plays ...

Brian, Mick Taylor, and Ronnie play nothing like one another. All three brought something unique to the band.

As someone pointed out during the No Filter tour, a shame they only played a handful of songs Ronnie was involved with in the studio - especially the latter part of the tour.
It's sad enough there was nothing newer in the setlist than tunes from Tattoo You, but to ignore so many great tunes Ronnie played on c.'75-'81 must be tough for him...almost like playing in a tribute band.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

ronnie played differently; more soulful and rock solid w Faces imo; but i'm good with him as a Stone.

While Ronnie wasn't there when they made the majority of their classics, the band had only been around a little over a dozen years by the time he joined. He's been with the band for 43 years and yet people still act like "his era" is a small pocket of time.

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Rocky Dijon
While Ronnie wasn't there when they made the majority of their classics, the band had only been around a little over a dozen years by the time he joined. He's been with the band for 43 years and yet people still act like "his era" is a small pocket of time.

This kinda speaks Volumes for Mick Taylor also.

Chord tones or chord notes?

Does Ronnie play notes?

Yes, I'm in one of those moods.

Oi, another Wood vs Taylor thread.

In those days they ALL played chord tones, Ronnie included, for the very simple reason that they all learned how to play from listening to music made by people who reasoned in terms of chord tones, not scales.

I read somewhere a great explanation of this concept. Think it was Miles autobio. For me, grown up believing that it was all about learning your scales right, it was quite revelatory. Sort of like when I learned that Keith was using open tunings ...

C

But is the blues scale really stemming from chord notes? You can't put all those minor notes in a chord

And «chord tones» must mean how a guitar player, ringing a chord, sounds?

This is very oddly worded question. I THINK what OP means to say is that Taylor made sure to include ( or begin with) the 1-3-5 triad of a chord) in his lead lines, and take off from there. Whereas Ron Wood goes a lot more by feel, to where his heart takes him.
Its an understandable for someone to assume this because Taylor's lines seem to include the major 3rds quite a lot,making for very European flavored melodic lines; that are memorable and hummable.
But this is part of the reason of MT's strength: that he is a Blues purist; he hardly ever plays any "weird" notes. He jst uses what he has so well, his bends, his juxta-positioning of scales, which in turn create new harmonic worlds. In his "Love in Vain" solos he does that - where he throws in a completely non_Bluesy note, that elevates the solo.
There are times IMO where his approach does not work well. I have seen him follow chord changes up and down the neck: where he just takes his box and moves w/ the chords. "Dead Flowers" was such a song. Keith ( or Ron later) did better on that song IMO.
The Ron vs Taylor threads always are interesting.

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Palace Revolution 2000
This is very oddly worded question. I THINK what OP means to say is that Taylor made sure to include ( or begin with) the 1-3-5 triad of a chord) in his lead lines, and take off from there. Whereas Ron Wood goes a lot more by feel, to where his heart takes him.
Its an understandable for someone to assume this because Taylor's lines seem to include the major 3rds quite a lot,making for very European flavored melodic lines; that are memorable and hummable.
But this is part of the reason of MT's strength: that he is a Blues purist; he hardly ever plays any "weird" notes. He jst uses what he has so well, his bends, his juxta-positioning of scales, which in turn create new harmonic worlds. In his "Love in Vain" solos he does that - where he throws in a completely non_Bluesy note, that elevates the solo.
There are times IMO where his approach does not work well. I have seen him follow chord changes up and down the neck: where he just takes his box and moves w/ the chords. "Dead Flowers" was such a song. Keith ( or Ron later) did better on that song IMO.
The Ron vs Taylor threads always are interesting.

Some interesting observations there palace.
Maybe worth adding that in some of his his more fluid and melodic solos MT would often employ the Dorian scale to good effect .
[Also Much favoured by Carlos Santana]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-04 13:23 by Spud.

They have their common ground as well. Listening to TWFNO and Crazy Mama reveals a basic use of ascending notes in a scale, creating a theme.

The most notable difference is that Taylor uses more space to expand those themes.

I've always found the little melodic instrumental bridge in Hey Negrita interesting. A couple of more notes were added to it in concert in the phrase ending. Those notes kind of completed it.

Keith were doing stuff like this in 1967 already. The Lantern springs to mind. I wonder why he stopped doing that? He is playing the harmony guitar in the break in When The Whip Comes Down, but it's not quite the same.

But I digress. Using chord notes in solos often lead to themes and motifs, though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-04 13:20 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman

... But I digress. Using chord notes in solos often lead to themes and motifs, though.

Yep, Very much so .

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DandelionPowderman
They have their common ground as well. Listening to TWFNO and Crazy Mama reveals a basic use of ascending notes in a scale, creating a theme.

The most notable difference is that Taylor uses more space to expand those themes.

I've always found the little melodic instrumental bridge in Hey Negrita interesting. A couple of more notes were added to it in concert in the phrase ending. Those notes kind of completed it.

Keith were doing stuff like this in 1967 already. The Lantern springs to mind. I wonder why he stopped doing that? He is playing the harmony guitar in the break in When The Whip Comes Down, but it's not quite the same.

But I digress. Using chord notes in solos often lead to themes and motifs, though.

Really good point; most excellent; about the use of space. Taylor was great at that. Maybe he'd sit on a note or a bend for a second just to gather his thoughts. regardless - I always respect patience in a musician. It shows security, and also trust. Someone who can not park himself on a note, or a bar of silence may be insecure about how he is coming across. Also, by taking your time you are showing respect and trust to you audience; that they will be there with you for the ride, and smart enough to see what you see. Keith is very much like that. Ron Wood CAN be like this. His solos on YCAGWYW in 75 were a study in patience and development. But like we all saw w/ Ronnie in the Stones: he actually went backwards for many years after that. Keith rubbed off on him in an almost destructive way. He became scattered, insecure; his solos were like a Blitzkrieg; blasted away almost blindly, and then someone hit the 'Stop' button.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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DandelionPowderman
They have their common ground as well. Listening to TWFNO and Crazy Mama reveals a basic use of ascending notes in a scale, creating a theme.

The most notable difference is that Taylor uses more space to expand those themes.

I've always found the little melodic instrumental bridge in Hey Negrita interesting. A couple of more notes were added to it in concert in the phrase ending. Those notes kind of completed it.

Keith were doing stuff like this in 1967 already. The Lantern springs to mind. I wonder why he stopped doing that? He is playing the harmony guitar in the break in When The Whip Comes Down, but it's not quite the same.

But I digress. Using chord notes in solos often lead to themes and motifs, though.

Really good point; most excellent; about the use of space. Taylor was great at that. Maybe he'd sit on a note or a bend for a second just to gather his thoughts. regardless - I always respect patience in a musician. It shows security, and also trust. Someone who can not park himself on a note, or a bar of silence may be insecure about how he is coming across. Also, by taking your time you are showing respect and trust to you audience; that they will be there with you for the ride, and smart enough to see what you see. Keith is very much like that. Ron Wood CAN be like this. His solos on YCAGWYW in 75 were a study in patience and development. But like we all saw w/ Ronnie in the Stones: he actually went backwards for many years after that. Keith rubbed off on him in an almost destructive way. He became scattered, insecure; his solos were like a Blitzkrieg; blasted away almost blindly, and then someone hit the 'Stop' button.

For quite some time, yes.

It's different today, as he won't have to «fight» for his space with Keith. It's a calm and secure Ronnie who plays YCAGWYW, Worried About You and other songs nowadays.

But he should really bury that B-bender in his backyard..

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DandelionPowderman
[
...But he should really bury that B-bender in his backyard..

Yes he should ..

[or perhaps deploy it more sparingly, just on the country tunes it was designed for ]

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Spud

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DandelionPowderman
[
...But he should really bury that B-bender in his backyard..

Yes he should ..

[or perhaps deploy it more sparingly, just on the country tunes it was designed for ]

He he

On a few songs it sounds good, though. At least on Dead Flowers and She's So Cold.

For Tumbling Dice it's been a mess all along..

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Koen
Oi, another Wood vs Taylor thread.

Lol... this one seems a bit more civilized...so far anyways.

Always interesting to read and learn about the differences of techniques and style (or lack thereof) between various guitar players. and not just MT vs. Ronnie.
It would be interesting to see a discussion on Bluesbreakers era Clapton vs. Bluesbreakers era Peter Green vs Bluesbreakers era Mick Taylor, though it might be somewhat limited in scope.
Or maybe a pre-Zeppelin Jimmy Page vs pre-Deep Purple Richie Blackmore...

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

For me the biggest difference is MT's guitar is his pharsing his vibrato, and his ability to play slide in standard tunings live. When I first heard IM Free from 1969 his playing just glistens to the heavens I knew he was the next guitar god for me.

Yep,
His sublime slide in Standard tuning is something special.

Both of them have done great slide playing in standard tuning, though.

Listen to Far East Man, for instance.

Ah, the good old English language. In the US, “chord tones” and “notes of a chord” are synonymous.

In the Arlen Roth video with Mick Taylor, Taylor discloses he plays lead based on the underlying harmony of the chords. Any “scale” he uses essentially come from a chord progression.

Guitar tone, of course, is a whole different animal and Taylor has one of the most distinct, and best, IMO. He also sticks to one guitar for the entirety of a set from what I’ve seen. Although, he doesn’t play in other tunings, which makes this possible.

The best way to find out is to learn a Taylor solo and a Wood solo and compare their unique approaches!

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TravelinMan
Ah, the good old English language. In the US, “chord tones” and “notes of a chord” are synonymous.

In the Arlen Roth video with Mick Taylor, Taylor discloses he plays lead based on the underlying harmony of the chords. Any “scale” he uses essentially come from a chord progression.

Guitar tone, of course, is a whole different animal and Taylor has one of the most distinct, and best, IMO. He also sticks to one guitar for the entirety of a set from what I’ve seen. Although, he doesn’t play in other tunings, which makes this possible.

The best way to find out is to learn a Taylor solo and a Wood solo and compare their unique approaches!

What often surprises me in Taylor's stuff is how basically bluesy it all is. His sound, his scales or whatever you want to call it, the changes.
In the 80's or 90's when MT was going down, down, and pretty much taking any job he could,m he did some work with some unknown guy. I saw the clips on line. I can not even recall his name. But he was obviously a Stones fan. MT is in the control room overdubbing his parts; and I was amazed to hear him singled out like that, and once again realizing how basically bluesy it all was. Bur his tone is/ was always perfection, and placement unique. So in the end it sounds very Taylor like.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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TravelinMan
Ah, the good old English language. In the US, “chord tones” and “notes of a chord” are synonymous.

In the Arlen Roth video with Mick Taylor, Taylor discloses he plays lead based on the underlying harmony of the chords. Any “scale” he uses essentially come from a chord progression.

Guitar tone, of course, is a whole different animal and Taylor has one of the most distinct, and best, IMO. He also sticks to one guitar for the entirety of a set from what I’ve seen. Although, he doesn’t play in other tunings, which makes this possible.

The best way to find out is to learn a Taylor solo and a Wood solo and compare their unique approaches!

What often surprises me in Taylor's stuff is how basically bluesy it all is. His sound, his scales or whatever you want to call it, the changes.
In the 80's or 90's when MT was going down, down, and pretty much taking any job he could,m he did some work with some unknown guy. I saw the clips on line. I can not even recall his name. But he was obviously a Stones fan. MT is in the control room overdubbing his parts; and I was amazed to hear him singled out like that, and once again realizing how basically bluesy it all was. Bur his tone is/ was always perfection, and placement unique. So in the end it sounds very Taylor like.

I'd be interested in hearing this. if anyone can find it then i'd love see it.

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NeverMakeASaintOfMe

I'd be interested in hearing this. if anyone can find it then i'd love see it.

It's Mick Taylor and Adam Bomb, to be found on YouTube.

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TheflyingDutchman

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NeverMakeASaintOfMe

I'd be interested in hearing this. if anyone can find it then i'd love see it.

It's Mick Taylor and Adam Bomb, to be found on YouTube.

Ah, I've seen that one.