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hi stonesrule - no need to get salty
We did have a friendly and far-ranging phone chat, covering a lot of topics, if you recall, including the
infamous Altamont. I certainly didn't "grill you" or take notes - lol!
Lem Motlow suggested maybe I should consult with you, and I was conveying you and I are not strangers,
have already been in touch, and we're good.
all my best
swiss
Thank you for pointing out my mistake. The thousands of hours spent watching those true murder tv shows... guess I didn't learn much. Something I still don't understand is when someone testifies.. why raise the right hand? What if yer getting sworn in and you raise your left hand? Would you be dishonest? what if yer left handed? What if you didn't have a right hand? Also everyone has to swear to god. what if the person don't believe in god? What if yer a buddhists? What if.... nevermind.... sorry to get off the subject.
Was this really how low the stage was? It looks thigh high. I thought it was maybe five feet high. I wonder if Altamont would have been a little bit different if the stage was alot higher then it was.
Everyone is sitting, so yes very low stage
Great photo/clip! Where did you find it? Do you have other Altamont-related clips in your collection?
The stage was approximately 39-40 inches high. It made sense for the Sears Point Raceway--the site of the
Free Concert until the plug was pulled 1 day before the event--at Sears Point the stage was on an upward slope,
so 40"-tall stage would effectively be much higher. At Altamont it was the opposite--at the bottom of a bowl.
Here's Sam Cutler and Woodstock organizer Michael Lang and a freaking out guy the morning of Altamont
(photo: Robert Altman)
-swiss
Yep, looks like a chick--Sam said it was a guy. Doesn't much matter in terms of height of the stage
I noticed the height of here breast....
__________________________
the behavior on this day really shows the differences between mick and keith.
mick, giggling and pleading with everyone to chill out, without any effect.
keith stands forward and says "hey if those guys don't cool it then we're not going to play"
unfortunately keith's strategy didn't work for meredith but sometime you have to man up and confront aggression and point out who the bad guys are.
I think the low stage thing is a myth. I saw Sam Cutler say this also . Don't think it was really any lower then it was for other Stones concerts from the time. The problem was the Angles were security. That was the only problem that day. 100s of tough guy thugs running around and beating people up in 5 against 1 fights, many times with the 5 guys have pool sticks. People want to talk about how violent everyone was but are there any stories of anyone getting really violent without the Angels being involved. One guy pulled a gun after being attacked by a couple of Angels. Was there any stories of that guy having problems with anyone else in a crowd of 300 thousand?
Here is a picture from the MSG from that tour. Stage height seems the same.
[www.google.com]
just for the sake of it , that'll be mick taylor starting up ..
I don't think one aspirin will be enough to comprehend that...
and why would i tell you that? arent you the person who whined about being "grilled " by someone who was just trying to have a conversation with you?
I am in the middle on stand your ground. Not sure if Hunter had a reasonable path to retreat or not of if its fair for him to not pull his gun when he has the chance. 5 seconds later they would have been swarming him and he wouldn't have the chance. My problem with your argument is you like others who believe like you do think victims can see into the future. Like in this case Hunter should have known he would get away from there without getting swarmed by a bunch of Men wearing leather.
The Altamonte trial was about Alan Passaro a piece of crap who joined a gang to be a tough guy. They can only look at what was going on in his mind. If he was not the one that started it with Hunter then is only role might have been to stab a guy that he saw with a gun. I can see how he was not convicted, just like I am not sure Hunter would have been convicted of anything if he lived.
Who was speaking of Eve Crane...?
And I beieve you may be exaggerating/mischaracterizing her role.
- swiss
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Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stonesrule
()
Date: April 12, 2014 04:55
Couple of friends here just called my attention to your recent post, Swiss.
I thought we were having a friendly conversation about your interest in
visiting Los Angeles. Didn't quite understand that I was being "grilled"
for a "project." You didn't mention that.
Since I was in New York the weekend of Altamont I have no interest in being quoted about anything to do with Altamont or the Stones or anything or anyone else without my permission.
Thank you for understanding.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-12 04:57 by stonesrule.
I thought we were having a friendly conversation about your interest in
visiting Los Angeles. Didn't quite understand that I was being "grilled"
for a "project." You didn't mention that.
Since I was in New York the weekend of Altamont I have no interest in being quoted about anything to do with Altamont or the Stones or anything or anyone else without my permission.
Thank you for understanding.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-12 04:57 by stonesrule.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
swiss
()
Date: April 12, 2014 05:21
Quote
stonesrule
Couple of friends here just called my attention to your recent post, Swiss.
I thought we were having a friendly conversation about your interest in
visiting Los Angeles. Didn't quite understand that I was being "grilled"
for a "project." You didn't mention that.
Since I was in New York the weekend of Altamont I have no interest in being quoted about anything to do with Altamont or the Stones or anything or anyone else without my permission.
Thank you for understanding.
hi stonesrule - no need to get salty
We did have a friendly and far-ranging phone chat, covering a lot of topics, if you recall, including the
infamous Altamont. I certainly didn't "grill you" or take notes - lol!
Lem Motlow suggested maybe I should consult with you, and I was conveying you and I are not strangers,
have already been in touch, and we're good.
all my best
swiss
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
Keef1966
()
Date: April 12, 2014 17:49
Quote
stanloveQuote
Keef1966
The Ottawa Citizen (Canada)
October 26th 1970
The Gadsden Times (AL)
January 14th 1971
You can stop wasting time on the definition of great now... They proved Passaro didn't kill Hunter anyways.
That's not how trials work. They didn't prove Passaro didn't kill Hunter.
Thank you for pointing out my mistake. The thousands of hours spent watching those true murder tv shows... guess I didn't learn much. Something I still don't understand is when someone testifies.. why raise the right hand? What if yer getting sworn in and you raise your left hand? Would you be dishonest? what if yer left handed? What if you didn't have a right hand? Also everyone has to swear to god. what if the person don't believe in god? What if yer a buddhists? What if.... nevermind.... sorry to get off the subject.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
Keef1966
()
Date: April 12, 2014 17:59
Was this really how low the stage was? It looks thigh high. I thought it was maybe five feet high. I wonder if Altamont would have been a little bit different if the stage was alot higher then it was.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
2000 LYFH
()
Date: April 12, 2014 19:39
Quote
Keef1966
Was this really how low the stage was? It looks thigh high. I thought it was maybe five feet high. I wonder if Altamont would have been a little bit different if the stage was alot higher then it was.
Everyone is sitting, so yes very low stage
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
swiss
()
Date: April 12, 2014 21:55
Quote
Keef1966
Was this really how low the stage was? It looks thigh high. I thought it was maybe five feet high. I wonder if Altamont would have been a little bit different if the stage was alot higher then it was.
Great photo/clip! Where did you find it? Do you have other Altamont-related clips in your collection?
The stage was approximately 39-40 inches high. It made sense for the Sears Point Raceway--the site of the
Free Concert until the plug was pulled 1 day before the event--at Sears Point the stage was on an upward slope,
so 40"-tall stage would effectively be much higher. At Altamont it was the opposite--at the bottom of a bowl.
Here's Sam Cutler and Woodstock organizer Michael Lang and a freaking out guy the morning of Altamont
(photo: Robert Altman)
-swiss
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: April 12, 2014 23:29
I´m not sure this is an guy..........
__________________________
__________________________
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
swiss
()
Date: April 12, 2014 23:42
Quote
NICOS
I´m not sure this is an guy..........
Yep, looks like a chick--Sam said it was a guy. Doesn't much matter in terms of height of the stage
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 12, 2014 23:49
Does anybody know who the famous freak out guy in the Altamont clip is? How the heck can he be so unknown? I dont think he was a "biker" right?
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: April 12, 2014 23:57
Quote
swissQuote
NICOS
I´m not sure this is an guy..........
Yep, looks like a chick--Sam said it was a guy. Doesn't much matter in terms of height of the stage
I noticed the height of here breast....
__________________________
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
2000 LYFH
()
Date: April 13, 2014 02:27
Which angry Hells Angel you talkin about?
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
sonomastone
()
Date: April 13, 2014 13:45
Quote
GravityBoy
I know I know, its a terrible moment.... but I just love the bit where Mick tries to cool everyone and then Keith starts a funky riff and then Bills awesome fat bass comes in.
These guys could groove.
What a sad day.
the behavior on this day really shows the differences between mick and keith.
mick, giggling and pleading with everyone to chill out, without any effect.
keith stands forward and says "hey if those guys don't cool it then we're not going to play"
unfortunately keith's strategy didn't work for meredith but sometime you have to man up and confront aggression and point out who the bad guys are.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
DREAMTIME
()
Date: April 13, 2014 15:21
if the blonde knew her boyfriend had a gun, then they both didn't belong there. if she didn't know, then boyfriend is used loosely.
i don't understand why the Angels didn't park their bikes behind the stage or if the organizers didn't make proper plans. you can't get @#$%& up and sit or stand on their bikes so you can be 2 feet closer. that's selfish and irresponsible.
the angels might have stopped one of the first mass shootings!
i would rather have the angels for security at any rock concert than guards that need to be strict bullies and people who don't listen to the music.
the magic is disappearing from all the concrete venues. right now outside festivals and general admission is the only way to assure some action or chaos...
i don't understand why the Angels didn't park their bikes behind the stage or if the organizers didn't make proper plans. you can't get @#$%& up and sit or stand on their bikes so you can be 2 feet closer. that's selfish and irresponsible.
the angels might have stopped one of the first mass shootings!
i would rather have the angels for security at any rock concert than guards that need to be strict bullies and people who don't listen to the music.
the magic is disappearing from all the concrete venues. right now outside festivals and general admission is the only way to assure some action or chaos...
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
2000 LYFH
()
Date: April 14, 2014 01:26
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: April 14, 2014 17:11
Quote
2000 LYFHQuote
Keef1966
Was this really how low the stage was? It looks thigh high. I thought it was maybe five feet high. I wonder if Altamont would have been a little bit different if the stage was alot higher then it was.
Everyone is sitting, so yes very low stage
I think the low stage thing is a myth. I saw Sam Cutler say this also . Don't think it was really any lower then it was for other Stones concerts from the time. The problem was the Angles were security. That was the only problem that day. 100s of tough guy thugs running around and beating people up in 5 against 1 fights, many times with the 5 guys have pool sticks. People want to talk about how violent everyone was but are there any stories of anyone getting really violent without the Angels being involved. One guy pulled a gun after being attacked by a couple of Angels. Was there any stories of that guy having problems with anyone else in a crowd of 300 thousand?
Here is a picture from the MSG from that tour. Stage height seems the same.
[www.google.com]
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
straycatblues73
()
Date: April 14, 2014 17:47
Quote
GravityBoy
I know I know, its a terrible moment.... but I just love the bit where Mick tries to cool everyone and then Keith starts a funky riff and then Bills awesome fat bass comes in.
These guys could groove.
What a sad day.
just for the sake of it , that'll be mick taylor starting up ..
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: April 14, 2014 18:20
Quote
DREAMTIME
the angels might have stopped one of the first mass shootings!
i would rather have the angels for security at any rock concert than guards that need to be strict bullies and people who don't listen to the music.
quote]
1- the angels might have stopped one of the first mass shootings!
Have to think about this one.. A guy gets a gun from his car because he is scared of the Angels beating the shit out of him and he wants to see the Stones. The Angels start beating the shit out of the guy and the guy pulls a gun for protection. Then the Angels are given credit for maybe stopping one of the first mass shootings..Does anyone have an asprin?
2-i would rather have the angels for security at any rock concert than guards that need to be strict bullies and people who don't listen to the music.
He wants the Angels as security because he doesn't want strict bullies as security..I guess smashing people with pool sticks in 5 on 1 fights over basically nothing doesn't equal bullies.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-14 18:44 by stanlove.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: April 14, 2014 19:11
Quote
stanlove
Have to think about this one.. A guy gets a gun from his car because he is scared of the Angels beating the shit out of him and he wants to see the Stones. The Angels start beating the shit out of the guy and the guy pulls a gun for protection. Then the Angels are given credit for maybe stopping one of the first mass shootings..Does anyone have an asprin?
I don't think one aspirin will be enough to comprehend that...
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
slakka
()
Date: April 16, 2014 09:21
The trial transcripts actually say Meredith got his "Fro" tugged on by a HA and things unwound from that point on.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 17, 2014 00:23
what we're arguing here is what in the states is called the "stand your ground law"
the u.s. is split almost evenly between states that have at least some form of "stand your ground" and states who have the traditional "self defence rule"
the case hinges on a split second-the angels hit hunter first.some witness accounts have him climbing on a speaker where he shouldnt have been,some have speculated it was because he was black,doesnt matter-there was a fight.
in gimme shelter you can see hunter flying back into his girlfriend who is trying to stop him and at the same time he is pulling his gun-ok,stop
this split second is everything-this is where the sides devide-
my view-i'm anti-stand your ground.i like the old rule which means if you have a" reasonable path to retreat" you must take it.when his girlfriend was grabbing at him and begging him to stop he shouldve taken her and ran.
so you got beat up,a couple of cracked ribs,a concussion-thats just a bad day on a dirt bike.its what vicodin was made for.this was the law in 1969 and why there was no conviction in the case.
the stand your ground view-this is a relatively new law and idea.in this case meredith hunter wouldve had no duty to retreat and wouldve been within his rights to pull his gun.if he "reasonably felt he was in danger of bodily harm or death" he had no "duty to retreat" and could "stand his ground",using the gun to scare people away or if needed shoot someone.
the u.s. is split almost evenly between states that have at least some form of "stand your ground" and states who have the traditional "self defence rule"
the case hinges on a split second-the angels hit hunter first.some witness accounts have him climbing on a speaker where he shouldnt have been,some have speculated it was because he was black,doesnt matter-there was a fight.
in gimme shelter you can see hunter flying back into his girlfriend who is trying to stop him and at the same time he is pulling his gun-ok,stop
this split second is everything-this is where the sides devide-
my view-i'm anti-stand your ground.i like the old rule which means if you have a" reasonable path to retreat" you must take it.when his girlfriend was grabbing at him and begging him to stop he shouldve taken her and ran.
so you got beat up,a couple of cracked ribs,a concussion-thats just a bad day on a dirt bike.its what vicodin was made for.this was the law in 1969 and why there was no conviction in the case.
the stand your ground view-this is a relatively new law and idea.in this case meredith hunter wouldve had no duty to retreat and wouldve been within his rights to pull his gun.if he "reasonably felt he was in danger of bodily harm or death" he had no "duty to retreat" and could "stand his ground",using the gun to scare people away or if needed shoot someone.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 17, 2014 00:27
Who are you big bear? And what's the matter?!
Quote
2000 LYFH
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 17, 2014 01:00
the guy is just a fan who is freaking out on acid.he got on the stage because nobody noticed him.the angels thought he was with the stones and the stones thought he was with the angels-
the angels have jackets that say"hells angels" on them,they would never go to an event like that without wearing their colors.
it wasnt until he started acting really strange that he brought attention to himself.you can see bob roberts look at him like..wtf??
roberts leans in and says something like who are you?,whatya doing here? bearded acid trip guy obviously says something crazy and roberts just grabs him and thows his ass off the stage.its actually pretty funny,there are some hilarious moments mixed in with the tragedy in that film.
the title of this thread is a easy question with an easy answer,the issue in my last post-not so much.
the angels have jackets that say"hells angels" on them,they would never go to an event like that without wearing their colors.
it wasnt until he started acting really strange that he brought attention to himself.you can see bob roberts look at him like..wtf??
roberts leans in and says something like who are you?,whatya doing here? bearded acid trip guy obviously says something crazy and roberts just grabs him and thows his ass off the stage.its actually pretty funny,there are some hilarious moments mixed in with the tragedy in that film.
the title of this thread is a easy question with an easy answer,the issue in my last post-not so much.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
steini
()
Date: April 17, 2014 01:08
About if a one has to swear on the bible. Like in my country you may in the USA (as to my best knowledge) to choose between swear on the bible or instead affirm.
"if you are "conscientiously opposed to taking an oath" you "may, instead of swearing, solemnly and sincerely affirm, under the pains and penalties of perjury[]" that you will testify truthfully.(MCL 600.1434)"
And seems to me that it´s not clear if a one has to raise his right hand also. In general if it´s not clear then likely a one don´t have to.
"if you are "conscientiously opposed to taking an oath" you "may, instead of swearing, solemnly and sincerely affirm, under the pains and penalties of perjury[]" that you will testify truthfully.(MCL 600.1434)"
And seems to me that it´s not clear if a one has to raise his right hand also. In general if it´s not clear then likely a one don´t have to.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stonesrule
()
Date: April 17, 2014 01:24
Lem Motlow, were you at Altamont?
If not, what and who are your sources for actual real-life facts?
If not, what and who are your sources for actual real-life facts?
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 17, 2014 01:42
Quote
stonesrule
Lem Motlow, were you at Altamont?
If not, what and who are your sources for actual real-life facts?
and why would i tell you that? arent you the person who whined about being "grilled " by someone who was just trying to have a conversation with you?
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: April 17, 2014 02:52
Quote
lem motlow
what we're arguing here is what in the states is called the "stand your ground law"
the u.s. is split almost evenly between states that have at least some form of "stand your ground" and states who have the traditional "self defence rule"
the case hinges on a split second-the angels hit hunter first.some witness accounts have him climbing on a speaker where he shouldnt have been,some have speculated it was because he was black,doesnt matter-there was a fight.
in gimme shelter you can see hunter flying back into his girlfriend who is trying to stop him and at the same time he is pulling his gun-ok,stop
this split second is everything-this is where the sides devide-
my view-i'm anti-stand your ground.i like the old rule which means if you have a" reasonable path to retreat" you must take it.when his girlfriend was grabbing at him and begging him to stop he shouldve taken her and ran.
so you got beat up,a couple of cracked ribs,a concussion-thats just a bad day on a dirt bike.its what vicodin was made for.this was the law in 1969 and why there was no conviction in the case.
the stand your ground view-this is a relatively new law and idea.in this case meredith hunter wouldve had no duty to retreat and wouldve been within his rights to pull his gun.if he "reasonably felt he was in danger of bodily harm or death" he had no "duty to retreat" and could "stand his ground",using the gun to scare people away or if needed shoot someone.
I am in the middle on stand your ground. Not sure if Hunter had a reasonable path to retreat or not of if its fair for him to not pull his gun when he has the chance. 5 seconds later they would have been swarming him and he wouldn't have the chance. My problem with your argument is you like others who believe like you do think victims can see into the future. Like in this case Hunter should have known he would get away from there without getting swarmed by a bunch of Men wearing leather.
The Altamonte trial was about Alan Passaro a piece of crap who joined a gang to be a tough guy. They can only look at what was going on in his mind. If he was not the one that started it with Hunter then is only role might have been to stab a guy that he saw with a gun. I can see how he was not convicted, just like I am not sure Hunter would have been convicted of anything if he lived.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
slakka
()
Date: April 17, 2014 04:17
it wasnt until the great alan passaro took down the little gun wielding meth head that things boiled over.
Your great hero Passaro died the death of an obvious drug dealer,
or do you think folks who "work occasionally as a meat cutter" are all flush with cash and BMWs?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-17 04:19 by slakka.
Your great hero Passaro died the death of an obvious drug dealer,
or do you think folks who "work occasionally as a meat cutter" are all flush with cash and BMWs?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-17 04:19 by slakka.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
slakka
()
Date: April 17, 2014 04:45
Oh and speaking of the great Eve Crane!
She was more or less the official HA "Frisco" photographer in residence back in the good old days.
Looks like the boys have a little hassle with the Fuzz. Oh well what else is new!
[www.evecranephotography.com]
She was more or less the official HA "Frisco" photographer in residence back in the good old days.
Looks like the boys have a little hassle with the Fuzz. Oh well what else is new!
[www.evecranephotography.com]
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
sonomastone
()
Date: April 17, 2014 06:10
i know this is a rolling stones message board, but surely it's in poor taste to argue about whether some poor guy who was killed 45 years ago deserved it or not, especially when clearly no one will ever know for sure what happened.
let meredith rest in peace.
let meredith rest in peace.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
swiss
()
Date: April 17, 2014 06:26
Quote
slakka
Oh and speaking of the great Eve Crane!
She was more or less the official HA "Frisco" photographer in residence back in the good old days.
Who was speaking of Eve Crane...?
And I beieve you may be exaggerating/mischaracterizing her role.
- swiss
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