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Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: June 19, 2016 05:39

Quote
jambay
Did they steal it or not? That's the only question that matters.

Randy California, the person who wrote the song in question, did not think they stole it and/or he did not care if they did.

Maybe Randy and Jimmy both borrowed it from Davy Graham's 1959 song Cry Me a River : [www.youtube.com]

Jimmy may have also based the song White Summer off of Graham's song She Moved Through the Fair : [www.youtube.com]

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: jambay ()
Date: June 19, 2016 05:44

Quote
2000 LYFH
Quote
jambay
Did they steal it or not? That's the only question that matters.

Randy California, the person who wrote the song in question, did not think they stole it and/or he did not care if they did.

Maybe Randy and Jimmy both borrowed it from Davy Graham's 1959 song Cry Me a River : [www.youtube.com]

Jimmy may have also based the song White Summer off of Graham's song She Moved Through the Fair : [www.youtube.com]

Davy Gravy's song is right there, nice work on finding those videos.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: jambay ()
Date: June 19, 2016 05:48

One thing about the music business is it takes/took more than talent, great song writing and great songs to make a song a hit/sell a zillion records. The history of music is full of awesome unknown songs.


Success has a 1000 Fathers, failure is an orphan.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Long John Stoner ()
Date: June 19, 2016 08:37

Quote
DeanGoodman
Quote
Long John Stoner
Malofiy is a showboater. I was at the courthouse on the first day and Malofiy walked past carrying a briefcase made from a Fender amp. Attention grabber...

I definitely get that sense also. I have access to a media-only event planner, and he has ensured everyone has his contact info. Some of his questioning seems to be inspired by absurdist interrogations in Seinfeld episodes. He is from Philadelphia, and thinks he is Rocky.

I have spoken to Page and Plant a few times, and they are very shrewd cats, flustered by nothing. More to the point, they play it straight in the courtroom, not acting like the smug yahoos who got wiped out in the Marvin Gaye/Blurred Lines case.

I didn't make the remark about showboating, someone else did, but I agree with it. Apparently the only reason Malofiy is even able to be here in L.A. for the trial is because a hearing regarding his possible suspension or disbarment was put off on appeal so he could do this case. In 2014 he sued Usher and treated everyone horribly, among other things telling female opposing counsel not to "be a girl about it" over some dispute. That apparently is one of the tamer things he did. He lost the Usher suit. Here in L.A. Zeppelin counsel have already told the judge Malofiy has tried to sandbag them by trying to introduce evidence they hadn't see yet, a big discovery no no in Federal Court. His own witnesses are getting dismantled on cross examination, Spirit bassist Mark Andes having to admit his great time partying with Robert Plant was really a meet and greet that lasted about a minute.

Zep's lawyers can move for a mistrial or a directed verdict, two strategies that carry a risk but might work. A mistrial because of the lack of disclosure of evidence and a directed verdict, meaning asking the judge to decide it and take it away from the jury, because there's really no "there" there for Malofiy. Next week should be the end of it all either way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-19 08:38 by Long John Stoner.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: DeanGoodman ()
Date: June 19, 2016 09:18

Quote
Long John Stoner

I didn't make the remark about showboating, someone else did, but I agree with it.

Ugh, sorry. Corrected original post to "roller99" as the source.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: June 19, 2016 10:35

I keep misreading the guy's name as Malfoy, this seems appropriate.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: June 19, 2016 10:52





ROCKMAN

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: June 19, 2016 16:28

Quote
jambay
Did they steal it or not? That's the only question that matters.

Randy California, the person who wrote the song in question, did not think they stole it and/or he did not care if they did.

You have no idea if any of this is true.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: roller99 ()
Date: June 19, 2016 17:34

Quote
DeanGoodman
Quote
roller99
Malofiy is a showboater. I was at the courthouse on the first day and Malofiy walked past carrying a briefcase made from a Fender amp. Attention grabber...

I definitely get that sense also. I have access to a media-only event planner, and he has ensured everyone has his contact info. Some of his questioning seems to be inspired by absurdist interrogations in Seinfeld episodes. He is from Philadelphia, and thinks he is Rocky.

I have spoken to Page and Plant a few times, and they are very shrewd cats, flustered by nothing. More to the point, they play it straight in the courtroom, not acting like the smug yahoos who got wiped out in the Marvin Gaye/Blurred Lines case.

[Corrects attribution to roller99]

Dean, I'm a huge fan of your writings, I'd like to speak with you privately.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 19, 2016 18:28

From Rolling Stone magazine:

Led Zeppelin 'Stairway' Trial Gets Ugly as Plaintiffs Rest Their Case
John Paul Jones debunks longstanding myths, while the defense tries, and fails, for a "Gotcha!" moment
By Matt Diehl June 18, 2016

Stairway

The surviving members of Led Zeppelin squashed one of the group's most established and enduring mythologies when the band's bassist/keyboardist/songwriter John Paul Jones took the stand in day four of the copyright infringement suit "Michael Skidmore vs. Led Zeppelin et al."

It was a rare public reunion for Jones and his former bandmates, Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, with Jones appearing as a witness to support Led Zeppelin's defense in the case involving similarities between Zep classic "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus," an instrumental composition from the Sixties-era rock band Spirit.

Apparently, the defense team had concluded no one on the jury is a loyal reader of Mojo: Jones' appearance served mainly to quash the narrative, faithfully recounted for nearly five decades, of how Page and Plant came back from the Bron-Yr-Aur cottage in the Welsh mountains with the beginnings of "Stairway to Heaven" to play to the rest of Led Zeppelin - a surprising assertion Page had also made under oath on Thursday.

In his cross-examination with the plaintiff's counsel Francis Malofiy, Jones was confronted with the playback of an audio recording of a 1972 BBC interview where he stated, "We were all in the country at Headley Grange when [Page and Plant] came back from the Welsh mountains with a guitar intro, verse and maybe more [of "Stairway to Heaven]." Under oath, Jones disputed the veracity of his earlier claims: "It sounded like I was guessing. I was guessing."

Jones was also grilled as to how Led Zeppelin came to play the Spirit song "Fresh-Garbage" - built largely around a prominent bass part - as part of the group's earliest live sets. "I forgot who introduced it - I can't remember," Jones testified. "It was a two-bar bass riff that popped out from somewhere. It was a catchy little riff, had an interesting time thing and it caught my ear. I didn't know where it was from."

Jones also claimed that he thought all of the cover songs played by Led Zeppelin in its famed early tour of Scandinavia billed as the "New Yardbirds" were "all Yardbirds songs." When asked if he'd ever seen Spirit live, he claimed that, in the late Sixties and Seventies before the composition and recording of "Stairway," he'd never "gone to any rock concerts, other than playing with Led Zeppelin."

Malofiy's cross examination of Jones also represented the end of the plaintiff's time to plead its case to the court, having used up all 10 hours allotted by the judge presiding over the federal civil trial, Gary Klausner. With several defense witnesses remaining on the docket - including, potentially, Page's co-defendant, Zeppelin frontman Robert Plant - Judge Klausner made an unusual exception: Malofiy would be allowed to cross-examine all of Led Zeppelin's witnesses for just 10 minutes each.

The numbers that came out of the testimony of Dr. Michael Einhorn, a Yale-educated economist who appeared as an expert witness for the plaintiff side, were also tantalizing. In his analysis, Einhorn revealed Page, Plant, Jones and the heirs of drummer John Bonham split £58.5 million across all 87 songs in the Zeppelin catalog in the three-year statutory period being hotly debated throughout the trial. However, Einhorn claimed the defense had not provided him with the "pro-rate technology" used to determine exactly how much of those monies came specifically from "Stairway" royalties.

"You don't have to play to the jury" was an admonishment Judge Klausner bestowed on both sides' counsel throughout the day's proceedings. But the most astonishing example of that strategy came not from the notoriously hotheaded Malofiy, but Led Zeppelin main counsel Peter Anderson, whose patrician white-shoe countenance has been a defining feature of his defense. During Anderson's cross-examination of the trial's plaintiff, Michael Skidmore - the trustee of "Taurus" songwriter Randy "California" Wolfe's estate - Anderson asked Skidmore if "it made a difference to [Wolfe's mother] Berenice Pearl if [Wolfe's only surviving heir] Quinn Wolfe [was cut out of receiving royalties] because he was the illegitimate son of Randy Wolfe?"

It was a "gotcha!" moment that backfired - more expected coming from, say, a trial in Game of Thrones or an old episode of Days of Our Lives. It provided perhaps the ugliest moment of a contentious trial, and was quickly ruled as legally inadmissible by Judge Klausner.

Another cynical moment from the defense occurred when, during the testimony of another expert witness - accomplished musician, musical director and producer Robert Mathes - Anderson requested the court play a 2012 video from the Kennedy Center Honors tribute segment to Led Zeppelin. Mathes - who's worked with everyone from Sting to Yo-Yo Ma - had been the musical director for this performance, a cover of "Stairway" by the rock group Heart featuring Jason Bonham on drums. The primary relevance of the video, however, seemed to be an attempt to impart the prestige of President Obama and the First Lady, who appeared in many audience reaction shots solemnly rocking out to "Stairway." Judge Klausner quickly put the kibosh on this gambit, ruling that only the audio portion of the song could be played to the jury.


As its primary expert witness testifying to the musical similarities between the Spirit and Led Zeppelin compositions, the defense called Dr. Lawrence Ferrara, a full professor of music and "director emeritus" at NYU and an esteemed musicologist with an impressive list of music-legend clients - Billy Joel, Paul McCartney, Elton John, Marc Anthony, Enrique Iglesias, Lady Gaga, Gloria Estefan, Bruce Springsteen, Brad Paisley, Jay Z, Usher, Dr. Dre, Kanye West, Eminem, Prince and James Brown among them.

On the stand, Ferrara made a sophisticated analysis as to why "Stairway to Heaven" did not plagiarize "Taurus." However, his academic approach proved confusing, and at times patronizing; when asked about his credentials, Ferrara bragged about owning all 29 editions of the Grove Dictionary of Music and stated, "I have authored or co-authored three books, one of which is in its fifth edition."

Ferrara's contribution to the case came off as more collegiate lecture than testimony, as he faced the jury directly while playing piano to demonstrate his analyses. Judge Klausner had to remind the defense more than once to move on to another question whenever Ferrara veered into topics unprovoked by inquiry. Ferrara proved testy and defensive in cross-examination by Malofiy - who raised an objection to his time on the stand as "pre-planned [and] not testimony." (Curiously, indeed, exhibits of evidence supplied by counsel would appear on video screens just as Ferrara was making points supported by them.)

Amusingly, Ferrara was almost interrupted at one point by a lookie-loo who had wandered into the courtroom with a Fender Stratocaster, likely hoping for an autograph from Page; said lookie-loo was quickly dispensed from the courtroom by a bailiff.

Ferrara's arguments proved most compelling - and potentially damning for the plaintiffs - when he played the sheet music for "Taurus" followed by a performance of the beginning of "Stairway to Heaven"; to the ear, his renditions did sound "dramatically different," as he noted repeatedly. Ferrara went on to play more "prior art" compositions with similar chromatic lines to "Taurus" and "Stairway" - demonstrating his point that the musical "building blocks" shared by them are not protectable intellectual property, but commonplace throughout music.

However, the similarities he demonstrated between "Stairway" and the Antônio Carlos Jobim composition "How Insensitive" and Richard Rodgers and Lorenz Hart's standard "My Funny Valentine" made it seem as if Jobim and the estates of Rodgers and Hart might want to call their attorneys.

As such, another example of "prior art" Ferrara invoked was the Modern Folk Quartet's 1963 version of the public-domain Appalachian folk traditional "To Catch a Shad." When Ferrara played the first part of "Stairway to Heaven" followed by "To Catch a Shad" on the piano, it proved one of the trial's most startling revelations yet: it was almost impossible to tell them apart - they sounded like the exact same song.

The tactic was intended to demonstrate the unoriginality and ordinariness of the musical techniques shared by "Taurus" and "Stairway" - that they can be found utilized in music compositions in many forms and genres going back hundreds of years. Instead, Ferrara's example may not have been received as intended. To some ears, it suggested another possibility - that Led Zeppelin had no qualms bogarting whole chunks of preexisting compositions in the songwriting process that led to "Stairway."

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: DeanGoodman ()
Date: June 19, 2016 19:26

However, the similarities he demonstrated between "Stairway" and the Antônio Carlos Jobim composition "How Insensitive" and Richard Rodgers and Lorenz Hart's standard "My Funny Valentine" made it seem as if Jobim and the estates of Rodgers and Hart might want to call their attorneys.

Jobim has not been able to call an attorney since 1994. Comprehensive summary otherwise.

@roller99 - yes, of course.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: jambay ()
Date: June 19, 2016 23:58

Quote
stanlove
Quote
jambay
Did they steal it or not? That's the only question that matters.

Randy California, the person who wrote the song in question, did not think they stole it and/or he did not care if they did.

You have no idea if any of this is true.

Sigh,
stanley it is clear you love to go on and on and on arguing over anything and everything (even starting arguments on RIP threads where you have no problem insulting the deceased) but I am not like that.

I posted my opinion in this thread that I think this case is bullshit and never should have seen the inside of a courtroom. period. If you disagree with me, I could not care less. I am not trying change your opinion, I simply posted mine. I know that no amount of "back and forth" on the internet is going to change anyone's mind about anything.

It is understandable that people who make a living with lawsuits love disputes and arguments are delighted whenever people sue each other and pay hundreds and thousands and millions of Dollars in lawyer fees and they feel compelled to insult and shout down anyone who dare not agree with them about lawsuits. They make a living on the misery of others and are paid part of the damages, so of course they imagine that any lawsuit is the greatest thing ever, but I do not.

So anyway... as I told the other grump who also only posts grumpy things here on IORR, if you want to argue with me about this you are going to have to pay me a retainer fee up front. If you dont pay it, please stop replying to my posts they are not directed at you. My original post here was just another post of mine about a wide variety of topics mostly regarding fun stuff about the Rolling Stones, but some calling BS on BS things like this BS lawsuit.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: June 20, 2016 01:21

The other day I noticed a similar chord sequence in Springsteen's The Ties That Bind and the Searchers' When You Walk in the Room, written (I believe) by Jackie DeShannon. Yet my first thought was not that somebody should sue somebody else. I thought, "ha, that reminds me of . . " and didn't assume misfeasance at all. Because I bet that's the way 99.99% of these cases of "plagiarism" come about.

Just a general observation, not Zeppelin-specific. The Lemon Song is obviously Killing Floor no matter how you look at it (and my favorite thing they ever did, so . . ).

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: melillo ()
Date: June 20, 2016 01:32

stairway isn't even that bad its all the other tracks I would be upset about

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: HonkeyTonkFlash ()
Date: June 20, 2016 01:41

Rock and roll is by definition a limited form of expression and similarities between songs are inevitable. Granted, STH is a bit more complex than most rock and roll songs but still, we're talking about a similar chord progression. If Chuck berry hasn't sued the Stones for Respectable...Or a multitude of blues artists have not sued the likes of Chuck Berry...Just saying.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: roller99 ()
Date: June 20, 2016 01:52

I just tweeted you Dean.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: June 20, 2016 03:02

Quote
Aquamarine
The other day I noticed a similar chord sequence in Springsteen's The Ties That Bind and the Searchers' When You Walk in the Room, written (I believe) by Jackie DeShannon.

1975:
video: [youtu.be]

2009:
[youtu.be]

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: jambay ()
Date: June 20, 2016 03:14

Quote
HonkeyTonkFlash
Rock and roll is by definition a limited form of expression and similarities between songs are inevitable. Granted, STH is a bit more complex than most rock and roll songs but still, we're talking about a similar chord progression. If Chuck berry hasn't sued the Stones for Respectable...Or a multitude of blues artists have not sued the likes of Chuck Berry...Just saying.
thumbs up

Dey took our Jerbs notes and chord progressions!

And a good thing the first person to do the 12 bar blues thing didn't patent it
and try sue everyone who wrote a 12 bar blues song after that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-20 03:15 by jambay.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: roller99 ()
Date: June 20, 2016 06:47


Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: roller99 ()
Date: June 20, 2016 06:53

Quote
roller99
Quote
DeanGoodman
Quote
roller99
Malofiy is a showboater. I was at the courthouse on the first day and Malofiy walked past carrying a briefcase made from a Fender amp. Attention grabber...

I definitely get that sense also. I have access to a media-only event planner, and he has ensured everyone has his contact info. Some of his questioning seems to be inspired by absurdist interrogations in Seinfeld episodes. He is from Philadelphia, and thinks he is Rocky.

I have spoken to Page and Plant a few times, and they are very shrewd cats, flustered by nothing. More to the point, they play it straight in the courtroom, not acting like the smug yahoos who got wiped out in the Marvin Gaye/Blurred Lines case.

[Corrects attribution to roller99]

Dean, I'm a huge fan of your writings, I'd like to speak with you privately.[/quote



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-20 06:55 by roller99.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: roller99 ()
Date: June 20, 2016 06:56

Quote
Hairball
From Rolling Stone magazine:

Led Zeppelin 'Stairway' Trial Gets Ugly as Plaintiffs Rest Their Case
John Paul Jones debunks longstanding myths, while the defense tries, and fails, for a "Gotcha!" moment
By Matt Diehl June 18, 2016

Stairway

The surviving members of Led Zeppelin squashed one of the group's most established and enduring mythologies when the band's bassist/keyboardist/songwriter John Paul Jones took the stand in day four of the copyright infringement suit "Michael Skidmore vs. Led Zeppelin et al."

It was a rare public reunion for Jones and his former bandmates, Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, with Jones appearing as a witness to support Led Zeppelin's defense in the case involving similarities between Zep classic "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus," an instrumental composition from the Sixties-era rock band Spirit.

Apparently, the defense team had concluded no one on the jury is a loyal reader of Mojo: Jones' appearance served mainly to quash the narrative, faithfully recounted for nearly five decades, of how Page and Plant came back from the Bron-Yr-Aur cottage in the Welsh mountains with the beginnings of "Stairway to Heaven" to play to the rest of Led Zeppelin - a surprising assertion Page had also made under oath on Thursday.

In his cross-examination with the plaintiff's counsel Francis Malofiy, Jones was confronted with the playback of an audio recording of a 1972 BBC interview where he stated, "We were all in the country at Headley Grange when [Page and Plant] came back from the Welsh mountains with a guitar intro, verse and maybe more [of "Stairway to Heaven]." Under oath, Jones disputed the veracity of his earlier claims: "It sounded like I was guessing. I was guessing."

Jones was also grilled as to how Led Zeppelin came to play the Spirit song "Fresh-Garbage" - built largely around a prominent bass part - as part of the group's earliest live sets. "I forgot who introduced it - I can't remember," Jones testified. "It was a two-bar bass riff that popped out from somewhere. It was a catchy little riff, had an interesting time thing and it caught my ear. I didn't know where it was from."

Jones also claimed that he thought all of the cover songs played by Led Zeppelin in its famed early tour of Scandinavia billed as the "New Yardbirds" were "all Yardbirds songs." When asked if he'd ever seen Spirit live, he claimed that, in the late Sixties and Seventies before the composition and recording of "Stairway," he'd never "gone to any rock concerts, other than playing with Led Zeppelin."

Malofiy's cross examination of Jones also represented the end of the plaintiff's time to plead its case to the court, having used up all 10 hours allotted by the judge presiding over the federal civil trial, Gary Klausner. With several defense witnesses remaining on the docket - including, potentially, Page's co-defendant, Zeppelin frontman Robert Plant - Judge Klausner made an unusual exception: Malofiy would be allowed to cross-examine all of Led Zeppelin's witnesses for just 10 minutes each.

The numbers that came out of the testimony of Dr. Michael Einhorn, a Yale-educated economist who appeared as an expert witness for the plaintiff side, were also tantalizing. In his analysis, Einhorn revealed Page, Plant, Jones and the heirs of drummer John Bonham split £58.5 million across all 87 songs in the Zeppelin catalog in the three-year statutory period being hotly debated throughout the trial. However, Einhorn claimed the defense had not provided him with the "pro-rate technology" used to determine exactly how much of those monies came specifically from "Stairway" royalties.

"You don't have to play to the jury" was an admonishment Judge Klausner bestowed on both sides' counsel throughout the day's proceedings. But the most astonishing example of that strategy came not from the notoriously hotheaded Malofiy, but Led Zeppelin main counsel Peter Anderson, whose patrician white-shoe countenance has been a defining feature of his defense. During Anderson's cross-examination of the trial's plaintiff, Michael Skidmore - the trustee of "Taurus" songwriter Randy "California" Wolfe's estate - Anderson asked Skidmore if "it made a difference to [Wolfe's mother] Berenice Pearl if [Wolfe's only surviving heir] Quinn Wolfe [was cut out of receiving royalties] because he was the illegitimate son of Randy Wolfe?"

It was a "gotcha!" moment that backfired - more expected coming from, say, a trial in Game of Thrones or an old episode of Days of Our Lives. It provided perhaps the ugliest moment of a contentious trial, and was quickly ruled as legally inadmissible by Judge Klausner.

Another cynical moment from the defense occurred when, during the testimony of another expert witness - accomplished musician, musical director and producer Robert Mathes - Anderson requested the court play a 2012 video from the Kennedy Center Honors tribute segment to Led Zeppelin. Mathes - who's worked with everyone from Sting to Yo-Yo Ma - had been the musical director for this performance, a cover of "Stairway" by the rock group Heart featuring Jason Bonham on drums. The primary relevance of the video, however, seemed to be an attempt to impart the prestige of President Obama and the First Lady, who appeared in many audience reaction shots solemnly rocking out to "Stairway." Judge Klausner quickly put the kibosh on this gambit, ruling that only the audio portion of the song could be played to the jury.


As its primary expert witness testifying to the musical similarities between the Spirit and Led Zeppelin compositions, the defense called Dr. Lawrence Ferrara, a full professor of music and "director emeritus" at NYU and an esteemed musicologist with an impressive list of music-legend clients - Billy Joel, Paul McCartney, Elton John, Marc Anthony, Enrique Iglesias, Lady Gaga, Gloria Estefan, Bruce Springsteen, Brad Paisley, Jay Z, Usher, Dr. Dre, Kanye West, Eminem, Prince and James Brown among them.

On the stand, Ferrara made a sophisticated analysis as to why "Stairway to Heaven" did not plagiarize "Taurus." However, his academic approach proved confusing, and at times patronizing; when asked about his credentials, Ferrara bragged about owning all 29 editions of the Grove Dictionary of Music and stated, "I have authored or co-authored three books, one of which is in its fifth edition."

Ferrara's contribution to the case came off as more collegiate lecture than testimony, as he faced the jury directly while playing piano to demonstrate his analyses. Judge Klausner had to remind the defense more than once to move on to another question whenever Ferrara veered into topics unprovoked by inquiry. Ferrara proved testy and defensive in cross-examination by Malofiy - who raised an objection to his time on the stand as "pre-planned [and] not testimony." (Curiously, indeed, exhibits of evidence supplied by counsel would appear on video screens just as Ferrara was making points supported by them.)

Amusingly, Ferrara was almost interrupted at one point by a lookie-loo who had wandered into the courtroom with a Fender Stratocaster, likely hoping for an autograph from Page; said lookie-loo was quickly dispensed from the courtroom by a bailiff.

Ferrara's arguments proved most compelling - and potentially damning for the plaintiffs - when he played the sheet music for "Taurus" followed by a performance of the beginning of "Stairway to Heaven"; to the ear, his renditions did sound "dramatically different," as he noted repeatedly. Ferrara went on to play more "prior art" compositions with similar chromatic lines to "Taurus" and "Stairway" - demonstrating his point that the musical "building blocks" shared by them are not protectable intellectual property, but commonplace throughout music.

However, the similarities he demonstrated between "Stairway" and the Antônio Carlos Jobim composition "How Insensitive" and Richard Rodgers and Lorenz Hart's standard "My Funny Valentine" made it seem as if Jobim and the estates of Rodgers and Hart might want to call their attorneys.

As such, another example of "prior art" Ferrara invoked was the Modern Folk Quartet's 1963 version of the public-domain Appalachian folk traditional "To Catch a Shad." When Ferrara played the first part of "Stairway to Heaven" followed by "To Catch a Shad" on the piano, it proved one of the trial's most startling revelations yet: it was almost impossible to tell them apart - they sounded like the exact same song.

The tactic was intended to demonstrate the unoriginality and ordinariness of the musical techniques shared by "Taurus" and "Stairway" - that they can be found utilized in music compositions in many forms and genres going back hundreds of years. Instead, Ferrara's example may not have been received as intended. To some ears, it suggested another possibility - that Led Zeppelin had no qualms bogarting whole chunks of preexisting compositions in the songwriting process that led to "Stairway."

It's already gotten ugly...

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: jambay ()
Date: June 20, 2016 07:24

But ya know for being in.. as one of the... for the life he...

Page looks great as an elder statesman of rock and roll and he smiles a lot, looks happy. I like that.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: June 20, 2016 11:44

Quote
Jah Paul
Quote
Aquamarine
The other day I noticed a similar chord sequence in Springsteen's The Ties That Bind and the Searchers' When You Walk in the Room, written (I believe) by Jackie DeShannon.

1975:
video: [youtu.be]

2009:
[youtu.be]

Yes, I've heard both of these, are you suggesting that he stole the sequence in question? My point was that songs can echo or be reminiscent of each other, and very often are, without anybody doing anything nefarious, that's all.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: June 20, 2016 16:49

Quote
jambay
Quote
stanlove
Quote
jambay
Did they steal it or not? That's the only question that matters.

Randy California, the person who wrote the song in question, did not think they stole it and/or he did not care if they did.

You have no idea if any of this is true.

Sigh,
stanley it is clear you love to go on and on and on arguing over anything and everything (even starting arguments on RIP threads where you have no problem insulting the deceased) but I am not like that.

I posted my opinion in this thread that I think this case is bullshit and never should have seen the inside of a courtroom. period. If you disagree with me, I could not care less. I am not trying change your opinion, I simply posted mine. I know that no amount of "back and forth" on the internet is going to change anyone's mind about anything.

It is understandable that people who make a living with lawsuits love disputes and arguments are delighted whenever people sue each other and pay hundreds and thousands and millions of Dollars in lawyer fees and they feel compelled to insult and shout down anyone who dare not agree with them about lawsuits. They make a living on the misery of others and are paid part of the damages, so of course they imagine that any lawsuit is the greatest thing ever, but I do not.

So anyway... as I told the other grump who also only posts grumpy things here on IORR, if you want to argue with me about this you are going to have to pay me a retainer fee up front. If you dont pay it, please stop replying to my posts they are not directed at you. My original post here was just another post of mine about a wide variety of topics mostly regarding fun stuff about the Rolling Stones, but some calling BS on BS things like this BS lawsuit.

Alot of bla bla but you never told us how you know what you going around claiming and its obvious why. You are talking out of your backside.

As for replying to your posts I will decide if I will reply to them not you.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: June 20, 2016 18:35

Quote
Aquamarine
Quote
Jah Paul
Quote
Aquamarine
The other day I noticed a similar chord sequence in Springsteen's The Ties That Bind and the Searchers' When You Walk in the Room, written (I believe) by Jackie DeShannon.

1975:
video: [youtu.be]

2009:
[youtu.be]

Yes, I've heard both of these, are you suggesting that he stole the sequence in question? My point was that songs can echo or be reminiscent of each other, and very often are, without anybody doing anything nefarious, that's all.

Not suggesting that at all...and I definitely agree with your statement about songs echoing each other. Just wasn't sure if you knew Bruce actually covered the song.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: June 20, 2016 21:13

Quote
Jah Paul
Quote
Aquamarine
Quote
Jah Paul
Quote
Aquamarine
The other day I noticed a similar chord sequence in Springsteen's The Ties That Bind and the Searchers' When You Walk in the Room, written (I believe) by Jackie DeShannon.

1975:
video: [youtu.be]

2009:
[youtu.be]

Yes, I've heard both of these, are you suggesting that he stole the sequence in question? My point was that songs can echo or be reminiscent of each other, and very often are, without anybody doing anything nefarious, that's all.

Not suggesting that at all...and I definitely agree with your statement about songs echoing each other. Just wasn't sure if you knew Bruce actually covered the song.

Oh, I see, I drew the wrong conclusion--thanks, in that case! smiling smiley

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: jambay ()
Date: June 20, 2016 22:38

smiling smiley

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Olly ()
Date: June 22, 2016 03:04

[www.bbc.co.uk]

.....

Olly.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: June 22, 2016 03:20

Quote
Olly
[www.bbc.co.uk]

"I don't have a recollection of almost anyone I've hung out with" - Plant

Been dazed and confused for so long it's not true...



Oh yeah, they didn't write that one either, never mind.

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