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Edith Grove

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MKjan
Better to be guided by moral standards than to surrender principles in the
name of blind allegiance.

I wish I had said that.

thank you EG.

Can any Italians here tell us how Raffaele Sollecito has been treated by the Italian press and/or public? We hear nothing about him in the English-language press - only about Amanda. Why should that be? (as if we don't know the answer). Has he had the same amount of attention that she has had or has the Italian press also focused more on her? And I must be missing something here, but if Rudy Guede did not act alone, how come he hasn't blown the whistle on whoever his accomplices were? The real truth about this case will probably out - not now, but many years down the line.

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Beast
Can any Italians here tell us how Raffaele Sollecito has been treated by the Italian press and/or public? We hear nothing about him in the English-language press - only about Amanda. Why should that be? (as if we don't know the answer). Has he had the same amount of attention that she has had or has the Italian press also focused more on her? And I must be missing something here, but if Rudy Guede did not act alone, how come he hasn't blown the whistle on whoever his accomplices were? The real truth about this case will probably out - not now, but many years down the line.

British TV said yesterday that he did...Knox and Sollecito..??
He supposed to have said that when he came out of the bathroom (Having not done it)she (Amanda) was standing over the body..........



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-05 11:21 by EddieByword.

i live in italy, i know about the failures of our judiciary system, i know the role of the press in depicting the foxy knoxy character, i also know the difference between wealthy white and poor black defendants

some facts

- rudy guede declared himself innocent admitting he had sex with the victim also he involved Knox and Sollecito. Then he opted for a summary procedure at the end of which he was found guilty of murder in league with others.
- amanda knox at first accused patrick lumumba, a man from congo, boss of the bar amanda knox worked for. lumumba was arrested and imprisoned. he was released after knox accusations were proved to be patent lies. he sued her for that, she was found guilty of that and sentenced 3 years of prison that she has already served.
- key moment of the appeal was the testimony of an independent pool of experts who casted doubts over the dna evidence on the knife supposed to be the murder weapon and on meredith kercher's bra. Experts focused on the negligence on the part of the investigators to follow the international standard procedures of handling the DNA samples. So they stated there can't be a firm attribution of those samples to Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. That is: there is a legitimate doubt about that.

so this case was built on strong clues but not on strong and conclusive evidence.
italian investigators and prosecutors acted incompetent in building it and it took years to do such a lousy job, and this is something we are accustomed to see by now here in italy as many other recent investigations suffered the same kind of failures.

all that said, my opinion is that amanda knox and raffaele sollecito were involved in the crime but because the prosecutors failed to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt they were rightly released.

i personally find it ridicolous both depicting amanda as the cruel femme fatale back then and as the poor "american girl" victimized for her beauty now.
True is that our legal system is a mess for both defendants and victims.

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lem motlow

why dont some of you just come out and admit it,shes a pretty white american girl and for that you want her destroyed and you're not gonna let the truth or any amount of facts stop you from feeling that way.

come on let it out you know you wanna...

Quite a stupid remark, isn't it?

You know what? Without knowing if Amanda Knox is innocent or not (and at this point I hope she is not), I am quite sure that if she hadn't been a "pretty white American girl" she would still be in jail.

Forgotten by everybody.

Every second day foreign citizens are charged in Italy of murder or other blood crimes. Guess how the public opinion and media react when instead of a "pretty white American girl" there is a anonymous looking mister no one from Romania, Albania, or Morocco ...

C

I fear liddas is right.

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maumau
i live in italy, i know about the failures of our judiciary system, i know the role of the press in depicting the foxy knoxy character, i also know the difference between wealthy white and poor black defendants

some facts

- rudy guede declared himself innocent admitting he had sex with the victim also he involved Knox and Sollecito. Then he opted for a summary procedure at the end of which he was found guilty of murder in league with others.
- amanda knox at first accused patrick lumumba, a man from congo, boss of the bar amanda knox worked for. lumumba was arrested and imprisoned. he was released after knox accusations were proved to be patent lies. he sued her for that, she was found guilty of that and sentenced 3 years of prison that she has already served.
- key moment of the appeal was the testimony of an independent pool of experts who casted doubts over the dna evidence on the knife supposed to be the murder weapon and on meredith kercher's bra. Experts focused on the negligence on the part of the investigators to follow the international standard procedures of handling the DNA samples. So they stated there can't be a firm attribution of those samples to Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. That is: there is a legitimate doubt about that.

so this case was built on strong clues but not on strong and conclusive evidence.
italian investigators and prosecutors acted incompetent in building it and it took years to do such a lousy job, and this is something we are accustomed to see by now here in italy as many other recent investigations suffered the same kind of failures.

all that said, my opinion is that amanda knox and raffaele sollecito were involved in the crime but because the prosecutors failed to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt they were rightly released.

i personally find it ridicolous both depicting amanda as the cruel femme fatale back then and as the poor "american girl" victimized for her beauty now.
True is that our legal system is a mess for both defendants and victims.

Excellent summary, thanks.

Drew

Being white and upper-middle class can be a liability in a politically correct world. Look at the Duke University lacrosse team case.

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lem motlow

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monkeymark

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lem motlow


at least that freak show over there ended with us getting our girl back.

'Our girl'? I didn't know you were related to her.

Shame us British people don't have the chance to get 'our girl' back....

she's an american citizen and its just like they're "our soldiers" "our countrymen" "our fellow citizens" -is that a little rough for you to understand? too bad.

and yes it is a shame the brits cant get their girl back.luckily the psychopath who killed her is in prison.holding a salem witch trial for her friend and roommate wasnt gonna change things,even if it would've felt good to nail that dirty rotten american.

It's America against the rest of the world in your head isn't it? I almost pity you.....

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monkeymark

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lem motlow

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monkeymark

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lem motlow


at least that freak show over there ended with us getting our girl back.

'Our girl'? I didn't know you were related to her.

Shame us British people don't have the chance to get 'our girl' back....

she's an american citizen and its just like they're "our soldiers" "our countrymen" "our fellow citizens" -is that a little rough for you to understand? too bad.

and yes it is a shame the brits cant get their girl back.luckily the psychopath who killed her is in prison.holding a salem witch trial for her friend and roommate wasnt gonna change things,even if it would've felt good to nail that dirty rotten american.

It's America against the rest of the world in your head isn't it? I almost pity you.....

Actually, here in my part of America, it can sometimes feel more like "the rest of the world against (US of) America". Slightly different than your wording. No pitty necessary but it can get somewhat frustrating to be told day in day out how (insert negative comment here) you are.

Peace,
Mr DJA

a tangled web - I have little doubt the three of them were involved at varying levels, but I don't think Amanda or Raffaelle used the knife. More likely Rudy wanted to have sex, and they were either also going to have sex, or watch or leave, but Meredith refused, a struggle ensued and she was threatened with a knife to her throat, she continued to resist and the knife was used. We will never know eactly what happened or if the pair helped by holding her down and didn't realise he would actually use the knife and then they freaked out. THis would account for the varying inaccuries in their stories as they tried to create varying scenarios but ended up contradicting themselves.

Sad for the family of Meredith that the Italian police are incompetent, but this is not isolated to Italy, look at how the Portuguese police @#$%& up the forensics on Madeline Mc Cann. The one thing the British are still good at is Policing!

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Title5Take1
Being white and upper-middle class can be a liability in a politically correct world. Look at the Duke University lacrosse team case.

Yeah, she's sooooo disadvantaged...

Come on. Is there any way that she would have gotten all the media attention and "Free Amanda Knox" campaigns if she wasn't a young, white, American female? I doubt it.

I think it's rather sad that the Kercher family have been sidelined in this whole thing. You'd think that Knox was the victim here rather than Meredith Kercher. She was a young, white female too so why race would have any negative bearing for Knox, I don't know...

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SoulPlunderer

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Title5Take1
Being white and upper-middle class can be a liability in a politically correct world. Look at the Duke University lacrosse team case.

Yeah, she's sooooo disadvantaged...

Come on. Is there any way that she would have gotten all the media attention and "Free Amanda Knox" campaigns if she wasn't a young, white, American female? I doubt it.

I think it's rather sad that the Kercher family have been sidelined in this whole thing. You'd think that Knox was the victim here rather than Meredith Kercher. She was a young, white female too so why race would have any negative bearing for Knox, I don't know...

What about the hikers that were detained in Iran? They weren't young atrractive white american woman.Yet the attention remained and the pressure on the Iranians eventually prevailed. Wrong is wrong. No matter what color,race or sex.......And the anti-american feelings on this board are absolutely disgusting.

somebody asked how Sollecito is treated by italian people; well, i have to say that people outside the tribunal (except american journalists) were angry and upset against sollecito and amanda. he is not considered like a victim, i guess he is hidden at home but he is not very popular. and people from his town for sure they did not say " finally our boy is back home"

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SoulPlunderer

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Title5Take1
Being white and upper-middle class can be a liability in a politically correct world. Look at the Duke University lacrosse team case.

I think it's rather sad that the Kercher family have been sidelined in this whole thing. You'd think that Knox was the victim here rather than Meredith Kercher. She was a young, white female too so why race would have any negative bearing for Knox, I don't know...

You can thank the Italian press for that....
Good point Tite5Take1

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sweetcharmedlife

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SoulPlunderer

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Title5Take1
Being white and upper-middle class can be a liability in a politically correct world. Look at the Duke University lacrosse team case.

Yeah, she's sooooo disadvantaged...

Come on. Is there any way that she would have gotten all the media attention and "Free Amanda Knox" campaigns if she wasn't a young, white, American female? I doubt it.

I think it's rather sad that the Kercher family have been sidelined in this whole thing. You'd think that Knox was the victim here rather than Meredith Kercher. She was a young, white female too so why race would have any negative bearing for Knox, I don't know...

What about the hikers that were detained in Iran? They weren't young atrractive white american woman.Yet the attention remained and the pressure on the Iranians eventually prevailed. Wrong is wrong. No matter what color,race or sex.......And the anti-american feelings on this board are absolutely disgusting.

Being anti-any country is rather sad really. But I have seen examples on this board where the shoe is on the other foot too, a few arrogant remarks from American posters for example about France when talking about SuperHeavy's sales. Anti-Americanism is stupid but so is any sense of arrogance from some American posters. There are some rather stupid people on both sides and neither to anything to endear their nations to other IORR members.

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stupidguy2

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SoulPlunderer

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Title5Take1
Being white and upper-middle class can be a liability in a politically correct world. Look at the Duke University lacrosse team case.

I think it's rather sad that the Kercher family have been sidelined in this whole thing. You'd think that Knox was the victim here rather than Meredith Kercher. She was a young, white female too so why race would have any negative bearing for Knox, I don't know...

You can thank the Italian press for that....
Good point Tite5Take1

You think being white worked against Knox? Hilarious...

What worked against her were her lies and inconsistent statements including trying to blame/implicate a totally innocent barman. Not exactly the actions of someone who was squeeky clean.

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andrea66
somebody asked how Sollecito is treated by italian people; well, i have to say that people outside the tribunal (except american journalists) were angry and upset against sollecito and amanda. he is not considered like a victim, i guess he is hidden at home but he is not very popular. and people from his town for sure they did not say " finally our boy is back home"

Thanks, andrea66 - that's interesting to hear how different the attitude in Italy is towards Sollecito and Amanda. It doesn't sound either as if he's being offered book deals and so on to tell his story. And if she does go for a book deal, you can bet she's not going to be telling all she knows.

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liddas

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lem motlow

why dont some of you just come out and admit it,shes a pretty white american girl and for that you want her destroyed and you're not gonna let the truth or any amount of facts stop you from feeling that way.

come on let it out you know you wanna...

Quite a stupid remark, isn't it?

You know what? Without knowing if Amanda Knox is innocent or not (and at this point I hope she is not), I am quite sure that if she hadn't been a "pretty white American girl" she would still be in jail.

Forgotten by everybody.

Every second day foreign citizens are charged in Italy of murder or other blood crimes. Guess how the public opinion and media react when instead of a "pretty white American girl" there is a anonymous looking mister no one from Romania, Albania, or Morocco ...

C

you should actually study some of the facts first and then state an opinion.amandas family are over a million dollars in debt fron this ordeal and her grandparents have mortgaged their home to pay legal and investigative costs.

her stepfather actually moved to italy to help out and a free amanda foundation was formed by people here in the states who didnt even know her but saw how crazy this whole thing was.

nothing was handed to them.

can anyone tell me how long amanda was interrogated or what tactics were used-since you seem to have no trouble putting it out there that she pointed the finger at someone you should know at what hour in the interrogation that happened-you do know ,right? i know the answer i just wanna see if you're paying attention.

why did the cops destroy the hardrives from all three kids laptops? it might e not have fit the narrative to pull up pictures and notes from amanda and meredith showing them as being close friends ,right? three hardrives-gone, in a f/cking murder case.i mean you could accidently destroy one but 3...

and as far as my comment on anti-americanism.c'mon guys-could have played a small role then,will ya give me that? i mean just a teenie tiny little bit? can ya give me that much..ha ha

i have talked to many, many americans who have said thay told people they from canada just to avoid problems in europe.sorry,just the way it is.

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lem motlow

can anyone tell me how long amanda was interrogated or what tactics were used-since you seem to have no trouble putting it out there that she pointed the finger at someone you should know at what hour in the interrogation that happened-you do know ,right? i know the answer i just wanna see if you're paying attention.


i have talked to many, many americans who have said thay told people they from canada just to avoid problems in europe.sorry,just the way it is.

1. 56 hours straight without being allowed to rest
2. Very true, in fact I know of Americans that put Canadian flags on their backpacks to avoid being hassled when in Europe (although I personally have never had a problem)

What a horrid thread this is.

Lessons From the Amanda Knox Case
By TIMOTHY EGAN
NYTimes


.
The tragic junior “year” abroad is over, at long last, for Amanda Knox. And for that, we have to thank an Italian legal system that essentially gives every convicted criminal a do-over — more formally, an appeal before fresh eyes. Bravo for Italy.

Amanda Knox arriving in court in Perugia, Italy, to hear the verdict in her appeals trial.Those second-chance jurors came to the same conclusion that any fair-minded person who has looked at the monumentally flawed murder case against Knox and her former boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, has arrived at. There was no way, based on forensic evidence that was a joke by international standards and a nonexistent motive that played to medieval superstitions, to find Knox and Sollecito guilty of the 2007 killing of Meredith Kercher, her British roommate in Perugia.

That Amanda Knox will soon be breathing the marine air of her home in Seattle again gets much blood stirring. One camp sees a beautiful killer walk free, backed by a global media cabal that had initially turned her into a villainous cartoon. Another sees a gross miscarriage righted, a victory that should not diminish the memory of the victim.

There is much to be learned from this case: about the strengths and fallibilities of two ancient legal systems, about human prejudice, about honor and retribution. And yes — about justice.

As one of the prosecutors in the case, Manuela Comodi, no friend of Knox, implied last week in his remarks: were Knox being tried in the United States, she might well be on her way to an execution. The case of Troy Davis, killed by the state of Georgia last month despite the fact that most of the witnesses in his case later recanted their testimony, should linger as the Knox saga is reviewed.

I was drawn to this story because of the parallels to my own family: my daughter, a Seattle girl who never knew Knox, was taking her junior year in Italy at the same time as Knox. Suddenly, Seattle, and a college student abroad, took on a very menacing new meaning. I could see my daughter in the Knox role, not yet 21, trying to do the right thing — staying around to help the police, as did Knox, instead of fleeing. And then, a domino of events, a long night of interrogation by police without a lawyer, at a time when Knox could barely understand the language, conflicting statements, and the torture of being fitted into a narrative at odds with the truth.

Knox had no criminal record. No motive for killing the girl who shared a house with her. But still, her behavior seemed odd. Why did she do cartwheels in the police station? Why did she wear a t-shirt in court with John Lennon’s lyrics? (All You Need is Love.) Not enough to convict, of course, but still, it closed many a mind — especially in Italy. She was strange, they said. Off.

Then, for me and millions of others, what prompted reasonable doubts was the evidence presented in the 2009 trial; it could not withstand scrutiny. So, onto the first point that Knox-haters must consider:

Where is the forensic evidence? Meredith Kercher was stabbed, repeatedly, in her small bedroom in a violent struggle that left blood all over the tiny space. Numerous bloody prints and DNA from the man convicted of her killing, Rudy Guede, were found. But any trace of Amanda Knox? No. Nothing. No one has ever been able to place her at the crime scene.

In search of evidence to back a faulty narrative, prosecutors pulled a knife from the kitchen of Sollecito. Of course, Knox’s DNA was on the handle — she used it to cut bread at the home of her boyfriend. The prosecutors said there was a trace of Kercher’s DNA on the blade, a claim that was nearly laughed out of court by an independent panel of experts. These experts in the appeal found instead a kernel of starch on the blade — from cutting bread, most likely.

On top of that were two late-to-the-case “witnesses” — one a heroin addict, the other a homeless man, whose accounts backing the prosecution never held up.

Motive. This is where any defender of women’s rights, or modernity, should howl. Standing in front of the crucifix that adorns Italian courtrooms, prosecutors and lawyers for their side called Knox a “she-devil,” a seducer, a “witch,” someone who manipulated Sollecito into an orgy with Kercher and Guede.

Their evidence? Well, she was sexually active, they said. She had a sex toy. I half-expected prosecutors to throw Knox in a tank of water to see if she sank or floated, a la the Salem witch trials.

Then who did it? Guede, a drifter with a drug history, pled guilty to complicity in the killing. He fled Perugia shortly after the murder. He changed his story, dramatically, to fit the prosecution, which prompted his judge to call him “an absolute liar.” He only named Knox and Sollecito months after he was in jail and looking to cut a deal.

One of the mysteries here is why people can’t see what looks like a straight-forward case for what it is. Race, of course, is a factor. Guede is black. Knox is white. O.K. I get it. It makes for a good debate, but I would never lock away a young couple for a quarter-century because of that.

Why all the attention? People are angry that Knox is the subject of global fascination and second-guessing while thousands of innocents rot in jail on wrongful convictions. It’s because she’s pretty, they say — “Angel Face,” as one nickname had her. “Foxy Knoxy,” in another (actually, that was her girlhood soccer name, for athletic skills). I’m sorry, but that’s human nature. We’re drawn to the duality in people.

But if all the attention to the Knox episode prompts people to take a second look at other questionable cases, then perhaps the tide from Perugia will lift other boats.

In the end, for all the global infatuation over the fate of Knox, this case is about justice for a handful of families. For everyone else — press, prosecutors, Hollywood, two dozen book writers — it’s about something else.

Knox, who spent almost four full years in jail, now has her justice. So does Sollecito. They were both acquitted and freed by the eight-member appeals jury.

And what about the Kercher family? It would have done no honor to their daughter had two people grown old in prison for an accusation that could never be proven. In their news conference just prior to the acquittal, Kercher family members said they remained perplexed as to why Knox and Sollecito would kill their daughter. Asking those questions again, and looking honestly at the case, may yet bring them some peace.

.

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lem motlow
you should actually study some of the facts first and then state an opinion.amandas family are over a million dollars in debt fron this ordeal and her grandparents have mortgaged their home to pay legal and investigative costs.

Huh? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Are you saying because her family is willing to spend a fortune that this make her innocent?

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lem motlow
her stepfather actually moved to italy to help out and a free amanda foundation was formed by people here in the states who didnt even know her but saw how crazy this whole thing was.

Again, so what? Not related to the case. Every person with loved ones that think they are innocent starts foundations, web sites, etc. Says nothing about the 'facts' that you keep saying to look at.

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lem motlow
nothing was handed to them.

can anyone tell me how long amanda was interrogated or what tactics were used-since you seem to have no trouble putting it out there that she pointed the finger at someone you should know at what hour in the interrogation that happened-you do know ,right? i know the answer i just wanna see if you're paying attention.

I always love this one too. So cops investigate a murder, ask "did you do it?" and the person says "no", and they should just say "ok, well I guess that's all then, go on home". Sorry, that is their job, to get you to talk, sometimes it is going to take hours/days. It's a murder, they want to get to the bottom of it, and if they find someone is giving them a runaround, changing stories etc. then they get a little suspicious.

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lem motlow
why did the cops destroy the hardrives from all three kids laptops? it might e not have fit the narrative to pull up pictures and notes from amanda and meredith showing them as being close friends ,right? three hardrives-gone, in a f/cking murder case.i mean you could accidently destroy one but 3...

Everyone knew they were friends, they roomed together, and they never tried to deny they were friends, so how does losing this do anything? Red herring.

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lem motlow
and as far as my comment on anti-americanism.c'mon guys-could have played a small role then,will ya give me that? i mean just a teenie tiny little bit? can ya give me that much..ha ha

I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean much - she still either did it or she didn't ... seems like you made up your mind based on the press stories rather than facts, to which -- for the 3rd time I am stating this -- I don't know if there is enough to prove one way or the other. So I guess I would say I am for her going free, I'm just not going to be that exhilarated over it since I still have doubts.

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lem motlow
i have talked to many, many americans who have said thay told people they from canada just to avoid problems in europe.sorry,just the way it is.

yeah, i believe that ... not.

Interesting to read what Kercher's friends/roommates did:

On November 2nd, Knox's callowness caught up to her. As soon as Kercher's corpse was discovered, the two Italian roommates called their lawyers. Kercher's British friends were even more cautious: Most of them fled the country, returning to the U.K. Edda asked Knox to fly home, or visit her cousin in Germany, but Knox refused. She wanted to see Kercher's family when they arrived in Perugia. She also wanted to help investigators find the killer. Today her mother's greatest regret is that she listened to her daughter. "Had I known that the British girls were out of there, had I known that the first thing her roommates did was lawyer up — had I known all of that? Absolutely, I would've made her come home," says Edda. "I would have had my cousin on the first plane out of Germany to yank her out of there."

"It's so Amanda that it hurts me," says Paxton, who has recently moved to Perugia to help with the case. "People talk about her being a manipulative mastermind. If she is, she's a f**king idiotic one. If you're a mastermind and you commit this murder, you leave the country. She walked into the police station. She just basically f**king skipped into the police station."

(From this article >>[www.rollingstone.com] ):

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SoulPlunderer

Being anti-any country is rather sad really. But I have seen examples on this board where the shoe is on the other foot too, a few arrogant remarks from American posters for example about France when talking about SuperHeavy's sales. Anti-Americanism is stupid but so is any sense of arrogance from some American posters. There are some rather stupid people on both sides and neither to anything to endear their nations to other IORR members.

My thoughts put into words.



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

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Beast

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andrea66
somebody asked how Sollecito is treated by italian people; well, i have to say that people outside the tribunal (except american journalists) were angry and upset against sollecito and amanda. he is not considered like a victim, i guess he is hidden at home but he is not very popular. and people from his town for sure they did not say " finally our boy is back home"

Thanks, andrea66 - that's interesting to hear how different the attitude in Italy is towards Sollecito and Amanda. It doesn't sound either as if he's being offered book deals and so on to tell his story. And if she does go for a book deal, you can bet she's not going to be telling all she knows.

you know, I am itlian but i am not nationalist at all, I believe i can recognize that my country, especially now, has a lot of things to be ashamed and not to be proud of, but in this case I can see the difference between american and italian public opinion, and at least for this case, I can tell that i prefer italian way. Nobody talks about Sollecito, as i told you, he must be hidden somewhere and I don't think he is very popular now . people are not stupid, we all have the feeling to know what happened but nobody could prove it

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lem motlow

you should actually study some of the facts first and then state an opinion.amandas family are over a million dollars in debt fron this ordeal and her grandparents have mortgaged their home to pay legal and investigative costs.

her stepfather actually moved to italy to help out and a free amanda foundation was formed by people here in the states who didnt even know her but saw how crazy this whole thing was.

nothing was handed to them.

can anyone tell me how long amanda was interrogated or what tactics were used-since you seem to have no trouble putting it out there that she pointed the finger at someone you should know at what hour in the interrogation that happened-you do know ,right? i know the answer i just wanna see if you're paying attention.

why did the cops destroy the hardrives from all three kids laptops? it might e not have fit the narrative to pull up pictures and notes from amanda and meredith showing them as being close friends ,right? three hardrives-gone, in a f/cking murder case.i mean you could accidently destroy one but 3...

and as far as my comment on anti-americanism.c'mon guys-could have played a small role then,will ya give me that? i mean just a teenie tiny little bit? can ya give me that much..ha ha

i have talked to many, many americans who have said thay told people they from canada just to avoid problems in europe.sorry,just the way it is.

No, I do not know the facts. I am not even interested in knowing the facts. Did the police make a mistake? Was a murderer discharged for lack of evidence? In either case, it wouldn't be the first time.

What I am sure of, is that what happened has nothing to do with the fact that AK is American. As a matter of fact her boyfriend received exactly the same treatment and he is Italian. So what?

I live in Milano. There are literally thousands of American tourists and workers that pass here every day. The anti-american sentiment just does not exist.

Of course idiots live everywhere, so there may be exceptions. But this is true also for Italians that come from southern regions, Jews, Muslims, Romanians and Albanians, etc. etc.

Italian courts are by far not the best in the world, but never ever have I seen a decision influenced by the nationality of the party.

C

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SoulPlunderer
Being anti-any country is rather sad really. But I have seen examples on this board where the shoe is on the other foot too, a few arrogant remarks from American posters for example about France when talking about SuperHeavy's sales. Anti-Americanism is stupid but so is any sense of arrogance from some American posters. There are some rather stupid people on both sides and neither to anything to endear their nations to other IORR members.

I agree, but of course anyone can be anti-a-country. A few years ago I stayed with a German friend in the South of France, and just before I left his house for Italy, he said. "Watch out in Italy. It's a nation of thieves. When French people want to get rid of a car and collect the insurance, they drive it over to Italy, and then the car always gets stolen, and they collect the insurance." I'll add that I had no thieving problems when I was in Italy, and loved it there.

You fools - there was ZERO evidence. Give it up

x



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-21 16:00 by vudicus.