Being a Yank who has lived and worked in England, to me Mick sounds like he is confused about whether he is a Cockney lad or an Eton boy. On one hand he cuts his words short with Cockney toughness, yet on the other hand he likes to round his vowels like he's royalty or something.

I don't pick up Eton or even Cockney really in Keith's speech—he sounds more east end London with some US east coast inflections thrown in for effect. Of course the US is in his blood by now...

Am I far off here? Need some Brit input.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-15 16:25 by paulm.

Quote
paulm
Being a Yank who has lived and worked in England, to me Mick sounds like he is confused about whether he is a Cockney lad or an Eton boy. On one hand he cuts his words short with Cockney toughness, yet on the other hand he likes to round his vowels like he's royalty or something.

I don't pick up Eton or even Cockney really in Keith's speech—he sounds more east end London with some US east coast inflections thrown in for effect. Of course the US is in his blood by now...

Am I far off here? Need some Brit input.

Well, you're far off in that you're differentiating between Cockney & East End London (Cockney is the dialect of the East End of London, or at least it was originally).

Their voices have become more Americanised over the years, but in the early days I'd say Keith had a typical Kent accent (not quite South London, but close).

Mick of course has always put on various accents as it suits him.

His general onstage accent is what's termed as Mockney or Mock Cockney.

But being the nice middle class boy that he is his real accent is more middle class aspirational.

Many people from Dartford speak what's known as estuary English - an accent found in south Essex and north Kent - two English counties bordering the Thames before it reaches the Channel.

It's been well noted that Jagger was a social chameleon, readily capable of changing his accent to suit his audience. If he was hobnobbing with the aristocracy he'd be 'frightfully posh' and if he was on stage he'd be Mick the lad and full of those 'awwwwright, allo Nobworth' mockneyisms.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-15 16:48 by Silver Dagger.

Quote
Silver Dagger
Many people from Dartford speak what's known as estuary English - an accent found in south Essex and north Kent - two English counties bordering the Thames before it reaches the Channel.

That's probably what I speak (raised in south London but spent the past 26 years in or near Margate).

Wot?

"TA-EEK MEH DEH-YAOWN LEEADL SOO-ZEH, TA-EEK MEH DEH-YAOWNNE"

"Mick..."

"AH NO YUH THOINK YUR THU QUOIN UV THU UNDERGRA-HAOWND"

"...Mick..."

"ENYOO CAYN SEN' ME DEAD FLAYWERS EUVRA MAWERNIN'"

"...MICK..."

"SEN' ME DEAD FLAYWERS BA THU MOIL"

"...MICK!..."

"SEN' ME DEAD FLAYWERS TO MUH WEDDIN'"

"...JESUS, MICK..."

"AN' AH WONE FIRGYET TA PUT...Wot?"

"Mick, you're from Dartford."

[rateyourmusic.com]

You got the Sun, You got the Moon,
and you've got
The Rolling Stones

Quote
yorkey
"TA-EEK MEH DEH-YAOWN LEEADL SOO-ZEH, TA-EEK MEH DEH-YAOWNNE"

"Mick..."

"AH NO YUH THOINK YUR THU QUOIN UV THU UNDERGRA-HAOWND"

"...Mick..."

"ENYOO CAYN SEN' ME DEAD FLAYWERS EUVRA MAWERNIN'"

"...MICK..."

"SEN' ME DEAD FLAYWERS BA THU MOIL"

"...MICK!..."

"SEN' ME DEAD FLAYWERS TO MUH WEDDIN'"

"...JESUS, MICK..."

"AN' AH WONE FIRGYET TA PUT...Wot?"

"Mick, you're from Dartford."

[rateyourmusic.com]

I think you've got it. By Jove, you've got it....

Quote
Sleepy City

Quote
Silver Dagger
Many people from Dartford speak what's known as estuary English - an accent found in south Essex and north Kent - two English counties bordering the Thames before it reaches the Channel.

That's probably what I speak (raised in south London but spent the past 26 years in or near Margate).

Ah, but is that south London, or sarf Lunnen?

Although he was brought up in Kent, Mick's father was a Northerner originally and his mother spent part of her early life in Australia - there's probably a little bit of Strine mixed in with all the other influences. But he's been using his fashionably working class 1960s voice ( Estuary English or Mockney ) for so long now that it's become his own.

wow great thread guys! So now I've savvy to Mockney...and interesting, that Estuary English. Silver Dagger, MJ would be sounding like Peter Noone singin' your phonetics

I really meant KR sounded more West End theatre district to me (than East end Cockney). I detected a dramatic "flair" to the language in the West End, but certainly not that measured poise of Prince William etc...am I remembering correctly?

And I know


Bear Grylls was a soldier and all, but to me he sounds like landed gentry.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-15 18:38 by paulm.

Mockney,as Silver Dagger quiet rightly pointed out,is Micks' accent. To me,he has his very own unique accent when he talks.It is a dialect called MJ Mockney.Of course his singing voice is his own.Copied countless times but it is his trademark...........along with the lips.

why do you think MJ puts on the Mockney? Does he think it gives him what we call in the States "street cred"?

Mick is an actor as well as a singer.Not very good as a film actor but utterly brilliant on any stage, or in front of a camera or microphone being interviewed.Only his family will probably know the real Mick voice.

Jagger has a middle class London accent, i would say. However, in the sixties he spoke a little more posh. In fact both Mick and Keith were a little more refined in their speech when they were younger.

Am I the only one who thinks he sounds very much like the "Naked Chef" Jamie Oliver?

Quote
Stoneage
Am I the only one who thinks he sounds very much like the "Naked Chef" Jamie Oliver?

No, you are right.The only differance is that Jamie Oliver sounds a bit like Mick Jagger.

Quote
Stoneage
Am I the only one who thinks he sounds very much like the "Naked Chef" Jamie Oliver?

Yes, very similar. Compare Mick at his most "normal" when he's relaxing with his family in 'Being Mick'.

What we tend to forget is that Jagger's social abilities probably is a key ingredient in the success of the Rolling Stones through the years. Since Brian died (and perhaps before...) Mick has been the Chairman of the board and the Executive director of the band. Instead we mock him and call him a chameleon or a social climber.

Quote
Stoneage
Instead we mock him and call him a chameleon or a social climber.

Not me!

I also agree that no one else talks with an accent exactly like Mick's. He's developed his own, which is a bit of a mixture of what would at one time have been called a working class London accent and something a bit more refined. Without the American twang that sometimes creeps in when he's talking, Keith is quite well spoken. None of the Mockney where he's concerned.

MJ varies depending on his audience as others have already said.
Keith's accent is a big surprise to me, for a lad with working class roots he sounds very much country gentleman/landed gentry to my ear, his would fit better with Etonians than any of Mick's variants that I can think of

Paraphrasing Keith we could say : "Mick? Well he´s a nice bunch of linguists"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-15 23:08 by zumabitch.

Good one Zuma I'd agree with Beast and Stargrove that ironically, KR from more humble roots than MJ, actually sounds more naturally gentrified than the contrived accent(s) from MJ. (Of course that all gets blown when KR goes into his NYC street talk.) But there is a continental air to KR's diction that seems quite natural. Actually I think Macca has this too, when comparing him to the more Liverpudlian accents of the other 3.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-16 00:27 by paulm.

Quote
Beast
I also agree that no one else talks with an accent exactly like Mick's. He's developed his own, which is a bit of a mixture of what would at one time have been called a working class London accent and something a bit more refined. Without the American twang that sometimes creeps in when he's talking, Keith is quite well spoken. None of the Mockney where he's concerned.

Listen to Keith speak circa 1964, mumbling commoner.

Mick seems to be the one who handles social situations best. Take the Steel Wheels press conference for example: Bill was supposed to make a speach but, apparently, froze. Then Mick stepped up, as usual, and handled it. Keith looks unable to put two sentences together, he often speaks in one-liners; hardly audible one-liners. Charlie dosesn't speak att all. But when he does he is the only one with a clear cut cockney dialect.

When Mick does " Jimmy Fallon doing Mick Jagger" he sounds Cockney but his regular speaking voice is quiet, middle-class British. Proper but not phony sounding at all.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
Beast
I also agree that no one else talks with an accent exactly like Mick's. He's developed his own, which is a bit of a mixture of what would at one time have been called a working class London accent and something a bit more refined. Without the American twang that sometimes creeps in when he's talking, Keith is quite well spoken. None of the Mockney where he's concerned.

Listen to Keith speak circa 1964, mumbling commoner.

Exactly. His speaking voice has changed even more than his singing voice over the years.

If you want a good case study than take a listen to his ever changing accent in Performance.

Here's a cool cockney accent from the movie.

that's a weird scene

what about Bear Grylls what's his accent?

Quote
Stoneage
Instead we mock him and call him a chameleon or a social climber.

Which I am sure he prefers over Brenda!