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Actually, I really like This Place is Empty. I think this really is a nice little song.
Anwya, about Indian Girl –I just really, really hate it. And I think the main reason is because there really isn’t any humour. It’s totally camp, but without any humour, without it being tongue in check. Much unlike Dead Flowers and Faraway Eyes. DF and FY are made more as a tribute to the style of music, with a great sense of humour. Wood knows he isn’t the best pedal steel player, but it’s o.k. and serves its purpose. Jagger knows his American hillbilly accent is fake, but it’s just right on these two tracks. The lyrics are over the top, and therefore great.
With Indian Girl, they mean every bit of it, and that is what makes it so sad. They didn’t use the mariachi horns as a joke, they are for real here. The lyrics aren’t meant as a cliché, they are a cliché. Jagger’s vocals are awful because he, tragically, means what he is singing, and he actually really wants to convey all his heartfelt sorrow. It really makes me puke.
The guitars are dreadful. When I sit on the couch and try to play flamenco, something I can’t at all, it sounds like the guitars on Indian Girl. But when I play it everybody knows it is a joke. Not on Indian Girl. They really mean it.
Mathijs
I agree partly, but to say that Jagger means it in the ending there (la, la, la, da, la, la... etc.) is stretching it a bit too far, imo.
I take my Stones very seriously.
Mathijs
so a song about a little girl in that situation isn't funny enough for you? srsly?
I get your point. The sincerity of it kills it. If it were camp it would be better, but you can't really be camp with this subject matter.
Still think "This Place Is Empty" is a dashed off piece of crap though.
Indian Girl and these two are just unlistenable for me. My mind and body reject them as Rolling Stones tracks....hearing them is a painful experience.
Those horns on Indian Girl are the final push in the abyss.
Huh? Ever heard "Jigsaw Puzzle?"
Blinded By Love is pure genius.
LOL I'm one of the very few fans who defend Steel Wheels as a great album---except for that song
And unlike 71tele and loog droog, I think "Too Much Blood" is one of the greatest of lost Stones gems. But I concur with both on "Winning Ugly"--I don't know which is worse: that they released it, or that Mick saw fit to perform it with his solo band.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-13 21:43 by stevecardi.
Ditto.
Drew
Well, this falls under the "to each his own" category. I think TM Blood is unlistenable. A really stupid song. Quite possibly the stupidest they have ever recorded. I mean, why even write a song about this subject matter (if you can even call it a "song")?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-14 03:17 by 71Tele.
Silly Rabbit,
It was actually recorded in 79, while the revolution was unfolding.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 13, 2011 10:18
Quote
keefbajagaQuote
stupidguy2Quote
71TeleQuote
Mathijs
Without a shadow of a doubt the most appalling song the Stones have ever recorded.
Mathijs
Really? The most appalling? There are a lot more appalling ones that came later, like that one of Keith's on ABB where he sings "sit right down and bare your breasts" quote]
lol...
What about "Any Way You Look At It"?
Now that is a bad song, and I don't who's to blame, Mick or Keith, because it sounds like Mick imitating Keith imitating himself.
Please explain to me why this is so bad:
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: September 13, 2011 10:48
Quote
71TeleQuote
Mathijs
Without a shadow of a doubt the most appalling song the Stones have ever recorded.
Mathijs
Really? The most appalling? There are a lot more appalling ones that came later, like that one of Keith's on ABB where he sings "sit right down and bare your breasts" (or something to that effect). Or at least 60% of the songs on Dirty Work. At least "Indian Girl" has that nice pedal steel and mariachi horns.
Actually, I really like This Place is Empty. I think this really is a nice little song.
Anwya, about Indian Girl –I just really, really hate it. And I think the main reason is because there really isn’t any humour. It’s totally camp, but without any humour, without it being tongue in check. Much unlike Dead Flowers and Faraway Eyes. DF and FY are made more as a tribute to the style of music, with a great sense of humour. Wood knows he isn’t the best pedal steel player, but it’s o.k. and serves its purpose. Jagger knows his American hillbilly accent is fake, but it’s just right on these two tracks. The lyrics are over the top, and therefore great.
With Indian Girl, they mean every bit of it, and that is what makes it so sad. They didn’t use the mariachi horns as a joke, they are for real here. The lyrics aren’t meant as a cliché, they are a cliché. Jagger’s vocals are awful because he, tragically, means what he is singing, and he actually really wants to convey all his heartfelt sorrow. It really makes me puke.
The guitars are dreadful. When I sit on the couch and try to play flamenco, something I can’t at all, it sounds like the guitars on Indian Girl. But when I play it everybody knows it is a joke. Not on Indian Girl. They really mean it.
Mathijs
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 13, 2011 10:54
Quote
MathijsQuote
71TeleQuote
Mathijs
Without a shadow of a doubt the most appalling song the Stones have ever recorded.
Mathijs
Really? The most appalling? There are a lot more appalling ones that came later, like that one of Keith's on ABB where he sings "sit right down and bare your breasts" (or something to that effect). Or at least 60% of the songs on Dirty Work. At least "Indian Girl" has that nice pedal steel and mariachi horns.
Actually, I really like This Place is Empty. I think this really is a nice little song.
Anwya, about Indian Girl –I just really, really hate it. And I think the main reason is because there really isn’t any humour. It’s totally camp, but without any humour, without it being tongue in check. Much unlike Dead Flowers and Faraway Eyes. DF and FY are made more as a tribute to the style of music, with a great sense of humour. Wood knows he isn’t the best pedal steel player, but it’s o.k. and serves its purpose. Jagger knows his American hillbilly accent is fake, but it’s just right on these two tracks. The lyrics are over the top, and therefore great.
With Indian Girl, they mean every bit of it, and that is what makes it so sad. They didn’t use the mariachi horns as a joke, they are for real here. The lyrics aren’t meant as a cliché, they are a cliché. Jagger’s vocals are awful because he, tragically, means what he is singing, and he actually really wants to convey all his heartfelt sorrow. It really makes me puke.
The guitars are dreadful. When I sit on the couch and try to play flamenco, something I can’t at all, it sounds like the guitars on Indian Girl. But when I play it everybody knows it is a joke. Not on Indian Girl. They really mean it.
Mathijs
I agree partly, but to say that Jagger means it in the ending there (la, la, la, da, la, la... etc.) is stretching it a bit too far, imo.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: September 13, 2011 11:07
The guitars are dreadful. When I sit on the couch and try to play flamenco, something I can’t at all, it sounds like the guitars on Indian Girl. But when I play it everybody knows it is a joke. Not on Indian Girl. They really mean it.
I'll see this song as a answer to Dylans 'One more cup of cofee'...don't take it too seriously...
2 1 2 0
I'll see this song as a answer to Dylans 'One more cup of cofee'...don't take it too seriously...
2 1 2 0
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: September 13, 2011 13:30
Quote
Come On
The guitars are dreadful. When I sit on the couch and try to play flamenco, something I can’t at all, it sounds like the guitars on Indian Girl. But when I play it everybody knows it is a joke. Not on Indian Girl. They really mean it.
I'll see this song as a answer to Dylans 'One more cup of cofee'...don't take it too seriously...
I take my Stones very seriously.
Mathijs
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: September 13, 2011 15:15
Where would the Stones be without Jagger on this track??
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 13, 2011 15:45
One thing bothers me with the bass. The credits say Wyman, but there are some things in there that are so typical Keith (some stops).
But I guess we'll never know if this could be a spliced track with both Wyman and Keith?
But I guess we'll never know if this could be a spliced track with both Wyman and Keith?
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
Natlanta
()
Date: September 13, 2011 16:00
Quote
Mathijs
Anwya, about Indian Girl –I just really, really hate it. And I think the main reason is because there really isn’t any humour. It’s totally camp, but without any humour, without it being tongue in check....
Mathijs
so a song about a little girl in that situation isn't funny enough for you? srsly?
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
NeddieFlanders
()
Date: September 13, 2011 17:09
Always liked Indian Girl and still do. But can't stand later ballads like Blinded By Love and Sweethearts Together. Taste is stranger than fiction...
N
N
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: September 13, 2011 17:18
Quote
MathijsQuote
71TeleQuote
Mathijs
Without a shadow of a doubt the most appalling song the Stones have ever recorded.
Mathijs
Really? The most appalling? There are a lot more appalling ones that came later, like that one of Keith's on ABB where he sings "sit right down and bare your breasts" (or something to that effect). Or at least 60% of the songs on Dirty Work. At least "Indian Girl" has that nice pedal steel and mariachi horns.
Actually, I really like This Place is Empty. I think this really is a nice little song.
Anwya, about Indian Girl –I just really, really hate it. And I think the main reason is because there really isn’t any humour. It’s totally camp, but without any humour, without it being tongue in check. Much unlike Dead Flowers and Faraway Eyes. DF and FY are made more as a tribute to the style of music, with a great sense of humour. Wood knows he isn’t the best pedal steel player, but it’s o.k. and serves its purpose. Jagger knows his American hillbilly accent is fake, but it’s just right on these two tracks. The lyrics are over the top, and therefore great.
With Indian Girl, they mean every bit of it, and that is what makes it so sad. They didn’t use the mariachi horns as a joke, they are for real here. The lyrics aren’t meant as a cliché, they are a cliché. Jagger’s vocals are awful because he, tragically, means what he is singing, and he actually really wants to convey all his heartfelt sorrow. It really makes me puke.
The guitars are dreadful. When I sit on the couch and try to play flamenco, something I can’t at all, it sounds like the guitars on Indian Girl. But when I play it everybody knows it is a joke. Not on Indian Girl. They really mean it.
Mathijs
I get your point. The sincerity of it kills it. If it were camp it would be better, but you can't really be camp with this subject matter.
Still think "This Place Is Empty" is a dashed off piece of crap though.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
steini
()
Date: September 13, 2011 17:32
Mathijs wrote "..Jagger’s vocals are awful because he, tragically, means what he is singing, and he actually really wants to convey all his heartfelt sorrow. It really makes me puke."
Does he mean it? Usually the greatest singers deliver songs and mean every word and thats what makes great singers imo. But i understand what you are talking about here but, not least in the whole context it´s tongue in cheek to hear that song on this particuliar record and that plus if you don´t find it abstract to imagine the Stones with theyre image at the time cool, funny or just bad as you do then something is wrong. That (this threat is a proof of this) makes this song an intresting song indeed.
Like Dylan sings "It´s all good"
Does he mean it? Usually the greatest singers deliver songs and mean every word and thats what makes great singers imo. But i understand what you are talking about here but, not least in the whole context it´s tongue in cheek to hear that song on this particuliar record and that plus if you don´t find it abstract to imagine the Stones with theyre image at the time cool, funny or just bad as you do then something is wrong. That (this threat is a proof of this) makes this song an intresting song indeed.
Like Dylan sings "It´s all good"
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
Title5Take1
()
Date: September 13, 2011 19:44
I love it (including the Latin horn section). Mick had an emotional stake in Nicaraguan politics because of Bianca and Jade. The song is mainly about the Nicaraguan civil war of the late 70's, where the rebel communist Sandinistas were attacking the American-supported presidency of Anastasio Somoza Debayle (who was later assassinated in exile in Paraguay). Much intense fighting took place in the Nicaraguan town of Masaya. (Masaya is located between the Nicaraguan capital of Managua and Granada, probably the "Nueva Granada" the "Indian girl" is from). Latin American communism included Latin American communists fighting in Angola, Africa (Castro had 50,000 men fighting there). Read more about the fighting in Masaya, Nicaragua in this 1978 TIME article at link >>> [www.time.com]
Locales in INDIAN GIRL:
Locales in INDIAN GIRL:
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
Natlanta
()
Date: September 13, 2011 19:57
Title5Take1,
i think you're right... i had always associated the song with the island of Grenada and their 1979 revolution, but Nicaragua is a better fit especially considering the Mrs Jagger connection. thanks for the info.
i think you're right... i had always associated the song with the island of Grenada and their 1979 revolution, but Nicaragua is a better fit especially considering the Mrs Jagger connection. thanks for the info.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: September 13, 2011 20:02
Yeah, these lyrics are hilarious.
Little Indian girl, where is your mama?
Little Indian girl, where is your papa?
He's fighting in the war in the streets of Masaya
All the children were dead, except for the girl who said
"Please Mister Gringo, please find my father"
Lesson number one that you learn while you're young
Life just goes on and on getting harder and harder
Little Indian girl, from Nueva Granada
Little Indian girl, from Nueva Granada
Yes, I saw them today. It's a sight I would say
They're shooting down planes with their M-16 and with laughter
Ma says there's no food, there's nothing left in the larder
Last piece of meat was eaten by the soldiers that raped her
All the children were dead, except for the girl who said
"Please Mister Gringo, please find my father"
Lesson number one that you learn while you're young
Life just goes on and on getting harder and harder
Life just goes on and on getting harder and harder
Little Indian girl, from Nueva Granada
Yes, I saw them today. It's a sight I would say
They're shooting down planes with their M-16 and with laughter
[spoken]
Mr. Gringo, my father he ain't no Che Guevara
And he's fighting the war on the streets of Masaya
Little Indian girl where is your father?
Little Indian girl where is your momma?
They're fighting for Mr. Castro in the streets of Angola
Little Indian girl, where is your mama?
Little Indian girl, where is your papa?
He's fighting in the war in the streets of Masaya
All the children were dead, except for the girl who said
"Please Mister Gringo, please find my father"
Lesson number one that you learn while you're young
Life just goes on and on getting harder and harder
Little Indian girl, from Nueva Granada
Little Indian girl, from Nueva Granada
Yes, I saw them today. It's a sight I would say
They're shooting down planes with their M-16 and with laughter
Ma says there's no food, there's nothing left in the larder
Last piece of meat was eaten by the soldiers that raped her
All the children were dead, except for the girl who said
"Please Mister Gringo, please find my father"
Lesson number one that you learn while you're young
Life just goes on and on getting harder and harder
Life just goes on and on getting harder and harder
Little Indian girl, from Nueva Granada
Yes, I saw them today. It's a sight I would say
They're shooting down planes with their M-16 and with laughter
[spoken]
Mr. Gringo, my father he ain't no Che Guevara
And he's fighting the war on the streets of Masaya
Little Indian girl where is your father?
Little Indian girl where is your momma?
They're fighting for Mr. Castro in the streets of Angola
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
big4
()
Date: September 13, 2011 20:19
It could be considered the last classic Stones country-styled ballad. There's an empathy in Jagger's voice on the song that takes it beyond camp IMHO.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
loog droog
()
Date: September 13, 2011 20:43
Quote
71TeleQuote
mickscarey
Possibly their WORST song.
Winning Ugly and Too Much Blood are worse.
Indian Girl and these two are just unlistenable for me. My mind and body reject them as Rolling Stones tracks....hearing them is a painful experience.
Those horns on Indian Girl are the final push in the abyss.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
Rev. Robert W.
()
Date: September 13, 2011 20:47
Quote
marcovandereijkQuote
DandelionPowderman
Not very different from some of the stuff on Dylan's Desire, released a few years before, imo.
Maybe. In that case it would be their second Dylanesk song since 'Who's been sleeping here?"
Huh? Ever heard "Jigsaw Puzzle?"
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
stevecardi
()
Date: September 13, 2011 20:51
"Indian Girl" and "Where the Boys Go" = that which ruined an otherwise good album--and it took me a while to realize the latter because of these two songs.
I don't like to brag, but I've never been more right when I say the band were fools to release these two embarrassments, especially when they had some outstanding unreleased stuff at that time like "Yellow Cab" and "We Had It All."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-13 20:54 by stevecardi.
I don't like to brag, but I've never been more right when I say the band were fools to release these two embarrassments, especially when they had some outstanding unreleased stuff at that time like "Yellow Cab" and "We Had It All."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-13 20:54 by stevecardi.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
Rev. Robert W.
()
Date: September 13, 2011 21:00
"Indian Girl" is a superb. Ahem...IMHO.
Easy, seductive West Indian feel with dark lyrics, delivered in a sometimes-affecting, sometimes jaded fashion. It's musically sexy, with a melancholy soul. And the sophistication, ambiguity and irreverence of the track put it light years beyond latter-day mishaps like "Blinded By Rainbows," "Sweet NeoCon" and "Highwire."
Also: the Cold War politics tie it to "Down In The Hole." It's a cool little subplot to the album.
I get a kick out of the fact that this and some of the band's other brilliant departures--including Emotional Rescue's title track--upset people so much.
Easy, seductive West Indian feel with dark lyrics, delivered in a sometimes-affecting, sometimes jaded fashion. It's musically sexy, with a melancholy soul. And the sophistication, ambiguity and irreverence of the track put it light years beyond latter-day mishaps like "Blinded By Rainbows," "Sweet NeoCon" and "Highwire."
Also: the Cold War politics tie it to "Down In The Hole." It's a cool little subplot to the album.
I get a kick out of the fact that this and some of the band's other brilliant departures--including Emotional Rescue's title track--upset people so much.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: September 13, 2011 21:04
Quote
big4
It could be considered the last classic Stones country-styled ballad. There's an empathy in Jagger's voice on the song that takes it beyond camp IMHO.
Blinded By Love is pure genius.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
stevecardi
()
Date: September 13, 2011 21:36
Quote
24FPS
Blinded By Love is pure genius.
LOL I'm one of the very few fans who defend Steel Wheels as a great album---except for that song
And unlike 71tele and loog droog, I think "Too Much Blood" is one of the greatest of lost Stones gems. But I concur with both on "Winning Ugly"--I don't know which is worse: that they released it, or that Mick saw fit to perform it with his solo band.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-13 21:43 by stevecardi.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: September 13, 2011 23:57
I guess we all have our own ears. I love the lyrics to Winning Ugly. It's a great sports song that could have been used at events if they'd bothered to work on it more. I think that's why SOME people view the Undercover album as a failure outright, while SOME view Dirty Work as a failure to come together and make a coherent product.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: September 14, 2011 00:05
Quote
Rev. Robert W.
I get a kick out of the fact that this and some of the band's other brilliant departures--including Emotional Rescue's title track--upset people so much.
Ditto.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: September 14, 2011 00:53
Thanks Title for the historical context.
I remember a long interview with Mick from around the time of "Wandering Spirit" - either Musician or some other music magazine outside of RS or Spin, and the interviewer brought up Central America and this song up, and Mick said 'Exactly, that's it!' He seemed pleased that someone had gotten it....I imagine he must have had to explain it to people who didn't know shit about Central America and it usually fell on deaf ears, but this journalist had actually got it.
Also, Masaya was the first city taken by the Sandinistas, so the city became symbolic of the revolutionary defeat against a dictatorship that had been in power for decades.
I also love that Jagger used the female form for the song's "hero" - keeping in mind that Latin America has a history of often violent subjugation against women, so the female subject makes the song beyond a political statement, but a human and cultural one ('Life just goes on and on getting harder and harder....for Little Indian girls from Nueva Grenada'). Using a little girl is also poignant to me because Jagger had a young daughter....and that may have made the plight of the "little Indian girls" more tragic to him as a father.
I don't his voice as "jokey" either, or sarcastic. It might be that some fans are not used to Jagger singing about something so undeniably real....and therefore, because they don't get it, they mock his effort. This song is speaking on so many different levels that it drives me crazy when some just dismiss it.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-14 00:59 by stupidguy2.
I remember a long interview with Mick from around the time of "Wandering Spirit" - either Musician or some other music magazine outside of RS or Spin, and the interviewer brought up Central America and this song up, and Mick said 'Exactly, that's it!' He seemed pleased that someone had gotten it....I imagine he must have had to explain it to people who didn't know shit about Central America and it usually fell on deaf ears, but this journalist had actually got it.
Also, Masaya was the first city taken by the Sandinistas, so the city became symbolic of the revolutionary defeat against a dictatorship that had been in power for decades.
I also love that Jagger used the female form for the song's "hero" - keeping in mind that Latin America has a history of often violent subjugation against women, so the female subject makes the song beyond a political statement, but a human and cultural one ('Life just goes on and on getting harder and harder....for Little Indian girls from Nueva Grenada'). Using a little girl is also poignant to me because Jagger had a young daughter....and that may have made the plight of the "little Indian girls" more tragic to him as a father.
I don't his voice as "jokey" either, or sarcastic. It might be that some fans are not used to Jagger singing about something so undeniably real....and therefore, because they don't get it, they mock his effort. This song is speaking on so many different levels that it drives me crazy when some just dismiss it.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-14 00:59 by stupidguy2.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
big4
()
Date: September 14, 2011 01:09
I've always liked the longer outtake of the song too:
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
drewmaster
()
Date: September 14, 2011 02:38
Quote
Rev. Robert W.
"Indian Girl" is a superb. Ahem...IMHO.
Easy, seductive West Indian feel with dark lyrics, delivered in a sometimes-affecting, sometimes jaded fashion. It's musically sexy, with a melancholy soul. And the sophistication, ambiguity and irreverence of the track put it light years beyond latter-day mishaps like "Blinded By Rainbows," "Sweet NeoCon" and "Highwire."
Also: the Cold War politics tie it to "Down In The Hole." It's a cool little subplot to the album.
I get a kick out of the fact that this and some of the band's other brilliant departures--including Emotional Rescue's title track--upset people so much.
Drew
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: September 14, 2011 03:16
Quote
stevecardiQuote
24FPS
Blinded By Love is pure genius.
LOL I'm one of the very few fans who defend Steel Wheels as a great album---except for that song
And unlike 71tele and loog droog, I think "Too Much Blood" is one of the greatest of lost Stones gems. But I concur with both on "Winning Ugly"--I don't know which is worse: that they released it, or that Mick saw fit to perform it with his solo band.
Well, this falls under the "to each his own" category. I think TM Blood is unlistenable. A really stupid song. Quite possibly the stupidest they have ever recorded. I mean, why even write a song about this subject matter (if you can even call it a "song")?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-14 03:17 by 71Tele.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
More Hot Rocks
()
Date: September 14, 2011 03:27
It's from the 80's. Of course it sucks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-14 03:28 by More Hot Rocks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-14 03:28 by More Hot Rocks.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: September 14, 2011 03:35
Quote
More Hot Rocks
It's from the 80's. Of course it sucks.
Silly Rabbit,
It was actually recorded in 79, while the revolution was unfolding.
Re: Track Talk: Indian Girl
Posted by:
slew
()
Date: September 14, 2011 04:49
Indian Girl is a bizzare song but I've always liked it a lot.
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