I listened to this all the way through yesterday (who knows why?!) and have a few observations. Please listen again (if you can take it) before commenting.

Here goes:

The cover - one of the worst ever. Drawn by a 4th grader? I know Mick is frugal, but Day-Yum!

1. Throwaway: I really like this song, maybe because I was going through a breakup at the time of the album's release.

2. Let's Work: Even worse than I remembered, and I remembered it as being awful.

3. Radio Control: Nothing here that Keith and Charlie couldn't have done better. Not bad, just not good.

4. Say You Will: My favorite on the album. Should have been the 1st single.

5. Primitive Cool: Way below par. Brings up those damn kids again (shades of Fool To Cry). LOL

6.Kow Tow: Love the attitude of this song (until I realized he was singing to/about Keith). Nice guitar in the choruses.

7. Shoot Off Your Mouth: See number 6

8. Peace For The Wicked: Ancestor of "Rain Fall Down"?

9. Party Doll: a seemingly sincere song of affection (for Keith?)

10. War Baby: See number 2

All in all, a few good songs, some forgettable ones, and a few that are memorable for being some of the worst crap ever released by any Stone. You can't hire the Rolling Stones, no matter how professional or technically good the players are.

Your thoughts?

Hey Elmo this is Kevin from your neighboring State next door, sorry I didn't get to meet you before Ga.Tech show. Yeah I think I still have a copy of this on cassette some where, lol, but I remember listening to it a lot, might just pick it up on cd to have again. Rock On'

Holler anytime. We're going to Macon January 15 for Greeg Allman. Join us if you can.

Horrible album...just like She's the Boss and Goddess.

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BamaStone
Hey Elmo this is Kevin from your neighboring State next door, sorry I didn't get to meet you before Ga.Tech show. Yeah I think I still have a copy of this on cassette some where, lol, but I remember listening to it a lot, might just pick it up on cd to have again. Rock On'

lol........at first glance my brain worked faster than my eyes, I thought it was going to say..........

"Hey Elmo this is Kevin your neighbor next door, sorry you had to play this, please don't do it again........(plus........."

I like all Mick's stuff especially Party Doll off this............I've always thought Mick should re-record Let's work with new lyrics and and call it Let's Twerk...........


also, I had a girl working in one of my shops who didn't like the Stones particularly, but still, she would come in every morning and staight away put on Primitive Cool...................for months.....



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-19 23:03 by EddieByword.

In one way it's a thousand times better than SHE'S THE BOSS.


That would be because it sounds like it has real instruments on it.


I really tried hard to like this album. In fact, at the time, I did, because it was better than STB. It still is I suppose. The album cover is possibly the worst cover in the history of album covers. But Jeff Beck ruins everything he touches. The drums are too late night talk show.


1. Throwaway - Great tune, probably because it's rather Stonesy. But it's a bit... weak in a way. And that guitar solo is horrendous. but the outtro is good.

2. Let's Work - WTF was he thinking. Just... disgusting.

3. Radio Control - Contrived.

4. Say You Will - Interesting tune. A good tune. But that fruity keyboard keeps this from being really good. It has a bizarre thinness sound wise.

5. Primitive Cool - Awful

6.Kow Tow - How can he have such shit and then have something that's pretty damn good like Kow Tow? Possibly the best track on the LP.

7. Shoot Off Your Mouth - Today it's somewhat better than Oh No Not You Again. It kicks. But Mick does too much grunt singing and it's still too much Jeff Beck.

8. Peace For The Wicked - The other pretty damn good tune.

9. Party Doll - Nothing great but at least it's not horrible.

10. War Baby - Horrible.

I only have Primitive Cool on vinyl and remember trying to like it back in 1987...It didn't work...Let's Work? My azz I was out of school and out of work for three years. This song Let's Work was the lowpoint in my believe in THE ROLLING STONES. I almost gave up....burn everything.
Until TALK IS CHEAP came out in 1988. This was my shot of salvation baby.

I listened for a while, but after that it was so facilitating to listen to Crosseyed Heart again



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-19 22:56 by MonkeyMan2000.

86-87 not a good time to be a Stones fan, especially at 17

Agree with almost every comment you did Elmo Lewis!
Anyway I listen to it from time to time.

SHOOT OFF YOUR MOUTH is a good "theme" if you've ever had anyone be a jerk whom you later left in the dust in life. Plus it taught me to never order fish on Mondays .

The absolute low point in the career of the stones collectively.

There are a couple of ok tracks, but war baby, (even the title, so stoopid), kow tow (seriously?), and the low point, mick's ode to Thatcherite England, let's work, complete with workout video.

It's a wonder he can still look himself in the mirror.

Should have been called Primitive Poo

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treaclefingers
The absolute low point in the career of the stones collectively.

There are a couple of ok tracks, but war baby, (even the title, so stoopid), kow tow (seriously?), and the low point, mick's ode to Thatcherite England, let's work, complete with workout video.

It's a wonder he can still look himself in the mirror.

I think 'War baby' refers to an English expression - kids that were born in the UK during World War II......ie, Mick & keith - 1943 - are War babies.

I can't really shout much for Let's work.....but I always thought that was an attempt at a sequel (of sorts) to the Live aid (anti poverty song) "Dancing in the street" which he did with David Bowie, which got to No.1 over here for a few weeks here.........ie. Let's work and kill poverty...................it's quite high energy though which I always like about Mick's stuff...

Also, it looks like he does still rate it as he personally picked it to go on the 2007 greatest Mick hits...........



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-20 06:10 by EddieByword.

Okay. The album art with Mick as Gollum is awful and inexcusable considering the artist also did the picture sleeve for "One Hit (to the Body)" and that would have made a good album cover.

1.) "Throwaway" is a strong opener with a good vocal (Mick doesn't scream the lyrics) and nice rhythm guitar from Mick. Yelling "work for the money" as Jeff Beck starts his solo was a bit much. The drumming and keyboards were a concession to the times, but this is a great opening number and would be my choice for the first single.

2.) "Let's Work" is not the worst thing he's ever done (see "Charmed Life"). The fact that it's an edit of a dance mix and no one has ever been able to hear the track before it was doctored for club play can't help things. Again, Mick's rhythm guitar is good. However it was a fatal choice for the first single and the album would have been stronger with its B-side, "Catch As Catch Can" sequenced somewhere in there instead.

3.) "Radio Control" is a good, fun James Brown tribute. It's funky. It works. No, it isn't "Big Enough," but I like it, like it, yes I do. Great lyrics and another strong vocal.

4.) "Say You Will" is a bad power ballad. It's this album's "Hard Woman." That said, they're both superior to "Streets of Love" or "Following the River" so things do get worse.

5.) "Primitive Cool" is great. Wonderful saxophone from David Sanborn. Great avant-garde jazz touches. A bit of a taste of "Terrifying" yet to come, but a hell of a lot stronger. The song swings. Great lyrics and vocals. If CBS had guts, this would have been the first single. The video was a missed opportunity. Imagine a video which was not tongue-in-cheek, but instead cut footage from the fifties and sixties together to bring home the baby boomer experience at its height in the eighties.

6.) "Kow Tow" is a lost classic. Excellent rhythm guitar from Mick again. Great lyrics and vocals. Another wonderful saxophone break from David Sanborn. The finest collaboration with Dave Stewart (only "Old Habits Die Hard" comes close). This one really rocks and doesn't sound like a put-on at all (like, for instance, most of DIRTY WORK). Anger and some bittersweet sadness over how things turned out all at once.

7.) "Shoot Off Your Mouth" is almost as good. Great bluesy licks. A nice harbinger of WANDERING SPIRIT yet to come. Lyrically, it follows on from the last two songs with its mix of nostalgia and contempt. The real deal with great guitar work throughout. I would swear this one is Jimmy Rip's contribution, but when I spoke to him he told me his "rhythm guitar" credit on the LP consisted of playing for one or two seconds at a time to fix up Jeff Beck's work since he was far cheaper than Beck. He didn't even know which tracks or track he was featured on and claimed no one could tell.

8.) "Peace For the Wicked" is a good solid funk number. At the time it came out, Vernon Reid bragged he was playing on this one. Jimmy Rip disputed that, see above. This is the tune that Ronnie played on the demo. Far better than anything Mick contributed to DIRTY WORK. As with 80% of the album, it seems made to tour.

9.) "Party Doll" is perhaps Mick's finest solo track ever. A lovely country tune with The Chieftains mining country's Irish folk roots and a nice touchstone for Mick's career. Lyrically, this is beautiful and Mick sings with genuine emotion. Just perfect in every way.

10.) "War Baby" is the album's other misstep. I want to love it with its deliberate echoes of "You Can't Always Get What You Want" and allusion to "Gimme Shelter," but man is this one contrived. It dates almost as badly as "Let's Work," but considering the song itself held actual potential, this seems almost the greater offense. Way, way too long.

Yes Rocky...Throwaway, Party Doll, Primitive Cool, Radio Control all very good.

I'm not sure I can agree with you that Kow Tow is a lost classic though.

If it's been lost, perhaps it can remain 'unfound'?!

A horrid mess.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

1. Throwaway: Like it a lot. Not great but I love the intro and its catchy enough.
2. Let's Work: Bad.
3. Radio Control: Love it!
4. Say You Will: Okay, not as good as Throwaway
5. Primitive Cool: I like it, cool stop/start of guitar riff
6. Kow Tow: Love it!
7. Shoot Off Your Mouth: Like it a lot, right up there w/ Throwaway
8. Peace For The Wicked: Love it!
9. Party Doll: Love it!
10. War Baby: Like it a lot!

Overall a pretty good album in my view ... haven't listened to it in a long time, probably ... wow, I am thinking about 8 years ago.

What I always come back to is to remember the following:

When Keith goes solo, I measure him against his lead vocals with the Stones only. I never expect another "Start Me Up" or "Brown Sugar" to come out of him. I look for another "Little T & A" or "Happy" or "Before They Make Me Run" at best and expect another "Too Rude" and one or two "Sleep Tonight" clones.

When Mick goes solo, I measure him against the Stones past and present. He has the impossible task. It's far easier for Keith to be Keith because he'll always be the cult figure whose day job is as a guitarist/musical director. The front man, the greatest front man in the world, has an impossible task to measure up to when he ventures on his own. The fact that there's even a handful of Mick solo songs I love (and an album - WANDERIG SPIRIT) that measure up against the best of the Stones from the same era is a small miracle.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-20 03:18 by Rocky Dijon.

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Rocky Dijon
What I always come back to is to remember the following:

When Keith goes solo, I measure him against his lead vocals with the Stones only. I never expect another "Start Me Up" or "Brown Sugar" to come out of him. I look for another "Little T & A" or "Happy" or "Before They Make Me Run" at best and expect another "Too Rude" and one or two "Sleep Tonight" clones.

When Mick goes solo, I measure him against the Stones past and present. He has the impossible task. It's far easier for Keith to be Keith because he'll always be the cult figure whose day job is as a guitarist/musical director. The front man, the greatest front man in the world, has an impossible task to measure up to when he ventures on his own. The fact that there's even a handful of Mick solo songs I love (and an album - WANDERIG SPIRIT) and measure up against the best of the Stones from the same era is a small miracle.

I think the bigger issue is that the creative muse left them both some time in the seventies. So what we have is a bit of momentum carrying them to about 1983, after which all hell breaks loose. And this is for writers.

NOW, these icons decide to start putting out their own individual material, Mick thinking it's going to be better than without Keith, which is almost impossible. Keith it turns out, has one good album in him. Mick doesn't, but the jealousy pushes him to put out an even better one than Keith.

So, I agree with you that it's bloody amazing we get the small amount of good stuff we do, but I'd also argue that if Mick dumped the band after 1972 you'd have some amazing solo Mick through the seventies and maybe even eighties but at some point he'd still have jumped the shark.

I really liked Primitive Cool when it came out and though the 80's production has dated it, it still has some greatness to it. The album was killed by it's cover and Let's Work which really is the worst thing ever released by any Rolling Stone - and it was the initial single - literally killing the album.

But Party Doll is great. I love Throwaway, Say You will (also think should've been 1st single) and Kow Tow. Shoot Off your Mouth, Peace For The Wicked and Radio Control are also pretty decent. War Baby I always really liked as to me it is reminiscent of Brothers In Arms by Dire Straits (one of my all time favorite bands).

By no means the disaster as it is usually assumed to be....

The only song I like off of this is Throwaway. I wasn't that impressed with the production, it sounds pretty flat. Doubt there would be much demand for a remastered edition.

Party Doll & Say You Will are the only gems on this turd. NOT better than She's The Boss.

Horrible album, what more can I say.
The only decent songs are Shoot Off Your Mouth and No Peace For The Wicked. Party Doll has potential, but it is too schmaltzy unfortunately. Put the other songs in the trash, that is were they belong. This album is maybe worse than She´s Boss. She´s The Boss was at least funky (still horrible of course), but Primitive Cool is just meaningless radio-pop-muzak. (I dont wanna talk about Let´s Work)

Party doll excellent.

Jagger cant win....
Keith on the other hand can make a crap album and avoid the critics.

PC is pretty average album...not much worse than some of the Stones latest attempts.

<1. Throwaway - Great tune, probably because it's rather Stonesy. But it's a bit... weak in a way. And that guitar solo is horrendous. but the outtro is good.>

The only thing that is Stonesy on Throwaway is Mick's singing, imo.

The guitar sound and playing would have made a better fit in Poison or Warrant...

I like Say You Will and Party Doll, but they're both schmaltzy. The latter is almost unbearable because of that. An acoustic Party Doll, with some dynamic acoustic playing would have made a nice Stones tune, imo.

Peace For The Wicked, one of the better songs on Primitive Cool could have been a Stones song.

This is from www.nzentgraf.de:

860112A 12th January: MICK JAGGER. New York City, RW’s homestudio. - Peace For The Wicked I (MJ) -demo, under title ‘Soul City’; unverified Musicians: MJ (voc, gtr)/RW (dr).

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RipThisBone
Peace For The Wicked, one of the better songs on Primitive Cool could have been a Stones song.

This is from www.nzentgraf.de:

860112A 12th January: MICK JAGGER. New York City, RW’s homestudio. - Peace For The Wicked I (MJ) -demo, under title ‘Soul City’; unverified Musicians: MJ (voc, gtr)/RW (dr).

Bill German details this in his book. MJ used Woody's studio to demo his solo track.

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RipThisBone
Peace For The Wicked, one of the better songs on Primitive Cool could have been a Stones song.

This is from www.nzentgraf.de:

860112A 12th January: MICK JAGGER. New York City, RW’s homestudio. - Peace For The Wicked I (MJ) -demo, under title ‘Soul City’; unverified Musicians: MJ (voc, gtr)/RW (dr).

A Dirty Work outtake!

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DandelionPowderman

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RipThisBone
Peace For The Wicked, one of the better songs on Primitive Cool could have been a Stones song.

This is from www.nzentgraf.de:

860112A 12th January: MICK JAGGER. New York City, RW’s homestudio. - Peace For The Wicked I (MJ) -demo, under title ‘Soul City’; unverified Musicians: MJ (voc, gtr)/RW (dr).

A Dirty Work outtake!

No, Dirty Work was already finished to be released. Harlem Shuffle came out febr. 26.