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straycatblues73

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DandelionPowderman

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straycatblues73

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DandelionPowderman

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Rocky Dijon
1. SFTD - YA-YA'S
2. CYHMK - STICKY FINGERS
3. MOONLIGHT MILE - STICKY FINGERS
4. WINTER - GOATS HEAD SOUP
5. TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE - IORR
6. BITCH - STICKY FINGERS
7. SHINE A LIGHT - EXILE
8. LITTLE QUEENIE - YA-YA'S
9. CAROL - YA-YA'S
10.TOPS - TATTOO YOU

Most Criminal Waste of Taylor's talents on a Stones-related disc:

1. I COULD HAVE STOOD YOU UP - TALK IS CHEAP

Do we know for a fact that Taylor is playing here (Bitch)?

isnt it great how two such different players can sound so similar ?
all through the song it could be either but the closing variations clinch it , its mick taylor


also 8. LITTLE QUEENIE - YA-YA'S
sorry both guitars are keith , see the gimme shelter bonus tracks
[www.iorr.org]

What do you have to back this up? All we know is the Glyn Johns-interview about Keith coming in late, changing the RIFF on Bitch, and all of a sudden the song was swinging.

And the solo guitar is classic Keith, imo.

And the solo guitar is classic Keith,

of course it is , and i dont mean that it isnt keiths riff either i just mean that the riffing guitar is played by mick t because of the closing variations doesnt sound like anything keith would have played.

Which variations are you talking about on the Sticky Fingers-version? There is no doubt about Taylor playing it live, but imo what he plays there sounds very different from the studio take, which is a much more confident and in your face-rhythm than we are used to get from Taylor.

IMO, this is the finest work Taylor did for the Stones. Epic.

Others.
1. Smiles and Grins - The Jack Bruce Band - Live In Manchester.
2. I & I - Real Live.
3. Soliloquy - Live at the Lonestar.
4. Spanish - Live at the Lonestar.
5. Hot Water Music - Live at the Lonestar.
6. Blind Willie McTell - Live in Leverkusen.
7. Tusks - Live in Philadelphia.
8. Oh Pretty Woman - John Mayalls 70th Birthday Concert.
9. Born Under a Bad Sign - Jammin with Blues Greats.
10. Micks Song - Black Cat Bone.

1. Love in vain - 1972-06-24 Tarrant County Convention Center - Fort Worth, TX (2nd show)

2. Dancing With Mr D - 1973-10-17 Foret Nationale - Brussels, Belgium

3. Midnight Rambler - 1973-10-17 Foret Nationale - Brussels, Belgium

4. You Can't Always Get What You Want - 1972-06-24 Tarrant County Convention Center - Fort Worth, TX (2nd show)

5. 100 Years Ago - The Rolling Stones

6. Stop Breaking Down - The Rolling Stones

7.A Apolitical Blues - Little Feat - from Waiting for columbus




8. Walking On Sunset - John Mayall


9. Hillside Blues a.k.a I Don't Know The Reason Why - The Rolling Stones (1969-10-17 Elektra Studios)




10. Short and Curlies - The Rolling Stones.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-24 15:57 by pepganzo.

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pepganzo
1. Love in vain - 1972-06-24 Tarrant County Convention Center - Fort Worth, TX (2nd show)

2. Dancing With Mr D - 1973-10-17 Foret Nationale - Brussels, Belgium

3. Midnight Rambler - 1973-10-17 Foret Nationale - Brussels, Belgium

4. You Can't Always Get What You Want - 1972-06-24 Tarrant County Convention Center - Fort Worth, TX (2nd show)

5. 100 Years Ago - The Rolling Stones

6. Stop Breaking Down - The Rolling Stones

7.A Apolitical Blues - Little Feat - from Waiting for columbus




8. Walking On Sunset - John Mayall


9. Hillside Blues a.k.a I Don't Know The Reason Why - The Rolling Stones (1969-10-17 Elektra Studios)




10. Short and Curlies - The Rolling Stones.

Taylor is only audible a little in the very beginning of Short And Curlies. The other guitar is Keith.

I wonder if Taylor got wiped here once more without being asked, and got into another quarrel with Keith. I liked his tasty intro/ would have given him permission to fill the entire song.
Keith is ok too though.

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DandelionPowderman

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straycatblues73

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DandelionPowderman

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straycatblues73

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DandelionPowderman

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Rocky Dijon
1. SFTD - YA-YA'S
2. CYHMK - STICKY FINGERS
3. MOONLIGHT MILE - STICKY FINGERS
4. WINTER - GOATS HEAD SOUP
5. TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE - IORR
6. BITCH - STICKY FINGERS
7. SHINE A LIGHT - EXILE
8. LITTLE QUEENIE - YA-YA'S
9. CAROL - YA-YA'S
10.TOPS - TATTOO YOU

Most Criminal Waste of Taylor's talents on a Stones-related disc:

1. I COULD HAVE STOOD YOU UP - TALK IS CHEAP

Do we know for a fact that Taylor is playing here (Bitch)?

isnt it great how two such different players can sound so similar ?
all through the song it could be either but the closing variations clinch it , its mick taylor


also 8. LITTLE QUEENIE - YA-YA'S
sorry both guitars are keith , see the gimme shelter bonus tracks
[www.iorr.org]

What do you have to back this up? All we know is the Glyn Johns-interview about Keith coming in late, changing the RIFF on Bitch, and all of a sudden the song was swinging.

And the solo guitar is classic Keith, imo.

And the solo guitar is classic Keith,

of course it is , and i dont mean that it isnt keiths riff either i just mean that the riffing guitar is played by mick t because of the closing variations doesnt sound like anything keith would have played.

Which variations are you talking about on the Sticky Fingers-version? There is no doubt about Taylor playing it live, but imo what he plays there sounds very different from the studio take, which is a much more confident and in your face-rhythm than we are used to get from Taylor.

They start at the end at 2:50 there isnt much but sound like some of the live variations of which he did many.
also the slide down at the end of ( or some of the) phrases and slide up to the first note of the next part sounds like mick. as i said isnt it great how two such different players can sound so similar ?

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DandelionPowderman


Taylor is only audible a little in the very beginning of Short And Curlies. The other guitar is Keith.

Many thanks my friend.
Anyway it is a great track and IORR is a good album.

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pepganzo

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DandelionPowderman


Taylor is only audible a little in the very beginning of Short And Curlies. The other guitar is Keith.

Many thanks my friend.
Anyway it is a great track and IORR is a good album.

Keith wanted to sound like Taylor, so he played his part. Too bad, he's got him by the balls.

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kleermaker

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pepganzo

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DandelionPowderman


Taylor is only audible a little in the very beginning of Short And Curlies. The other guitar is Keith.

Many thanks my friend.
Anyway it is a great track and IORR is a good album.

Keith wanted to sound like Taylor, so he played his part. Too bad, he's got him by the balls.

What a load of bollocks.

Mathijs

The '73 tour live recordings (like Brussels) always get mentioned as Mick Taylor's best live material, but I might just vote for the Bob Dylan 1984 Tour of Europe.

Listen to the bootlegs of the Barcelona or Wembley gigs - some really great guitar work much in the style of Mick's work on Infidels. Real Live has just a small sample.

Keith wanted to sound like Taylor, so he played his part. <Kleermaker>

What a load of bollocks. <Mathijs>

Well, Richards stated "I learned a lot from Mick Taylor".
Maybe Keith got inspired on "Short and Curlies", as his playing sounds "Tayloreske"
That's a positive development...I don't see "bollocks" here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-27 11:02 by Amsterdamned.

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Amsterdamned
Keith wanted to sound like Taylor, so he played his part. <Kleermaker>

What a load of bollocks. <Mathijs>

Well, Richards stated "I learned a lot from Mick Taylor".
Maybe Keith got inspired on "Short and Curlies", as his playing sounds "Tayloreske"
That's a positive development...I don't see "bollocks" here.

But what you say is completely different to what Kleermaker says. Of course they both learned a lot from each other, that's obvious and only natural. But all this crap that you and Kleermaker keep posting on how Keith wants to be Taylor and whatever, and every good guitar part is Taylor, and when its not Taylor its Keith copying Taylor, that's such bollocks. And it's getting old, stale and tiring as well.

Mathijs

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kleermaker

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pepganzo

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DandelionPowderman


Taylor is only audible a little in the very beginning of Short And Curlies. The other guitar is Keith.

Many thanks my friend.
Anyway it is a great track and IORR is a good album.

Keith wanted to sound like Taylor, so he played his part. Too bad, he's got him by the balls.

Do you really think so? To me, it's sounds like classic Keith.

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Amsterdamned
Keith wanted to sound like Taylor, so he played his part. <Kleermaker>

What a load of bollocks. <Mathijs>

Well, Richards stated "I learned a lot from Mick Taylor".
Maybe Keith got inspired on "Short and Curlies", as his playing sounds "Tayloreske"
That's a positive development...I don't see "bollocks" here.

IMO, the only studio recording where Keith sounds a bit like Taylor is the very ending his solo on Star Star.

Live, he did pick up some stuff off Taylor, especially on the 75/76 tour (Fingerprint File and some fills on HTW). But it's very, very subtle. So what kleermaker says is really stretching it a bit too far. If I know him right it was done a bit toungue in cheek

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Mathijs

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Amsterdamned
Keith wanted to sound like Taylor, so he played his part. <Kleermaker>

What a load of bollocks. <Mathijs>

Well, Richards stated "I learned a lot from Mick Taylor".
Maybe Keith got inspired on "Short and Curlies", as his playing sounds "Tayloreske"
That's a positive development...I don't see "bollocks" here.

But what you say is completely different to what Kleermaker says. Of course they both learned a lot from each other, that's obvious and only natural. But all this crap that you and Kleermaker keep posting on how Keith wants to be Taylor and whatever, and every good guitar part is Taylor, and when its not Taylor its Keith copying Taylor, that's such bollocks. And it's getting old, stale and tiring as well.

Mathijs

But all this crap that you and Kleermaker keep posting on how Keith wants to be Taylor and whatever, and every good guitar part is Taylor, and when its not Taylor its Keith copying Taylor, that's such bollocks.<Mathijs>

Keith wants to be Taylor, or copy him ??? I never said that.
"What a load of bollocks".Your oneliner is getting old,stale and tiring as well.

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DandelionPowderman

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Amsterdamned
Keith wanted to sound like Taylor, so he played his part. <Kleermaker>

What a load of bollocks. <Mathijs>

Well, Richards stated "I learned a lot from Mick Taylor".
Maybe Keith got inspired on "Short and Curlies", as his playing sounds "Tayloreske"
That's a positive development...I don't see "bollocks" here.

IMO, the only studio recording where Keith sounds a bit like Taylor is the very ending his solo on Star Star.

Live, he did pick up some stuff off Taylor, especially on the 75/76 tour (Fingerprint File and some fills on HTW). But it's very, very subtle. So what kleermaker says is really stretching it a bit too far. If I know him right it was done a bit toungue in cheek

Keith sounds more Tayloreske on Short and Curlies than on any other song. Not amazing that for instance Pepganzo here and some commenter on YouTube thought it was Taylor soloing over the song. But it's Richards imitating Taylor, building on the little Taylor part in the beginning of the song. Keith was very jealous of Taylor. Especially in the studio he hardly gave him any room. It's not accidental that Taylor's best performances are without Keith, on his songs with Jagger (Sway, Moonlight Mile, Winter, 100 Years Ago, Time Waits For No One). That remark of Keith in his book, saying he 'composed' some songs especially for Taylor's guitar are nonsense. I would say: name them, those songs. I don't know them.

I'm rather sure that the main reason Taylor left was Richards' behaviour. Jagger has also stated that Keith was a reason for Taylor to leave (the Stones scholars here certainly know which quote I mean). Anyway, read Nico Zentgraf's site and his data, then you can see how Taylor steadily was pushed out of the group and replaced with Wood (It's only rock 'n' roll and other stuff). Taylor pulled the right conclusion by leaving, even if I'm sorry he did. But he had no choice.

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman

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Amsterdamned
Keith wanted to sound like Taylor, so he played his part. <Kleermaker>

What a load of bollocks. <Mathijs>

Well, Richards stated "I learned a lot from Mick Taylor".
Maybe Keith got inspired on "Short and Curlies", as his playing sounds "Tayloreske"
That's a positive development...I don't see "bollocks" here.

IMO, the only studio recording where Keith sounds a bit like Taylor is the very ending his solo on Star Star.

Live, he did pick up some stuff off Taylor, especially on the 75/76 tour (Fingerprint File and some fills on HTW). But it's very, very subtle. So what kleermaker says is really stretching it a bit too far. If I know him right it was done a bit toungue in cheek

Keith sounds more Tayloreske on Short and Curlies than on any other song. Not amazing that for instance Pepganzo here and some commenter on YouTube thought it was Taylor soloing over the song. But it's Richards imitating Taylor, building on the little Taylor part in the beginning of the song. Keith was very jealous of Taylor. Especially in the studio he hardly gave him any room. It's not accidental that Taylor's best performances are without Keith, on his songs with Jagger (Sway, Moonlight Mile, Winter, 100 Years Ago, Time Waits For No One). That remark of Keith in his book, saying he 'composed' some songs especially for Taylor's guitar are nonsense. I would say: name them, those songs. I don't know them.

I'm rather sure that the main reason Taylor left was Richards' behaviour. Jagger has also stated that Keith was a reason for Taylor to leave (the Stones scholars here certainly know which quote I mean). Anyway, read Nico Zentgraf's site and his data, then you can see how Taylor steadily was pushed out of the group and replaced with Wood (It's only rock 'n' roll and other stuff). Taylor pulled the right conclusion by leaving, even if I'm sorry he did. But he had no choice.

Keith is on both Sway and Time Waits For No One, and you know that well. Why couldn't he have written those tracks with Taylor's solo guitar in mind? It's only your speculation talking, kleermaker.

As for Keith sounding Taylor-esque on Short And Curlies I must say this is downright wrong, musically speaking. It just makes no musical sense, as Keith just rambles thru his usual blues licks here, without any attempt of the fluidity that makes Taylor's signature.

Personally, I think it's more likely that Keith played his guitar track first on this one. While listening, they decided that the song needed more guitar in the beginning, and Taylor recorded it. He is prominent in the intro, and plays a low-key rhythm guitar throughout the track. This is just my theory, though - I'm not claiming having the truth here, as you do.

I'm also guessing that Pepganzo just liked the playing on that track, and assumed it was Taylor, since Keith played very few solos in the Taylor-era. Hardly any "evidence" of the guitar track sounding Taylor-esque, if you ask me.

It would be interesting to see if you can give me one valid musical argument on why Keith's licks sound like Taylor here - and especially how you concluded with this rather conspiratic theory.

As for Keith sounding Taylor-esque on Short And Curlies I must say this is downright wrong, musically speaking. It just makes no musical sense, as Keith just rambles thru his usual blues licks here, without any attempt of the fluidity that makes Taylor's signature.<DP>


That's exactly what I wanted to point in my first post here.
Taylor only plays some licks in the first seconds, and this has been taken over by Keith in a rather inconspicuous way.
If you don't know this-like <pepganzo>, or your not into the details the way of Taylor and Richards differ, you wouldn't notice.
So Keith did a great job, however I would prefer Mick's fluidity troughout the entire song.Taylor's slide vanishes,and Keith certainly adapts to that. Besides many of Keith licks remind of Taylor here. IMO one must be rather deaf not to notice this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-27 16:20 by Amsterdamned.

I think you're wrong, Amsterdamned, and I also think Taylor's slide is an overdub, added later on.

EDIT:

It's not an overdub, I listened to the track now. But no way Keith's playing is sounding anything like Taylor's. Actually, some of the licks comes back on Winning Ugly on Dirty Work.

After listening closely with headphones, I can say that not even 0,0001 percent of Keith's licks in there reminds me of Taylor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-27 16:40 by DandelionPowderman.

You agree Talor is on slide?
The rest is a matter of perception.

Jeebus krist! Keith's playing on what is essentially an album filler is cool, whats with all this other nonsense?

For all we know maybe Taylor did play more, but it just didn't work or maybe he only played the intro slide lead part, but agreed that Keith's playing/idea was more suitable for the rest of the track!?

That's what's this thread is about.Taylor+Richards and how they function in S&C
Nonsense?

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His Majesty
Jeebus krist! Keith's playing on what is essentially an album filler is cool, whats with all this other nonsense?

For all we know maybe Taylor did play more, but it just didn't work or maybe he only played the intro slide lead part, but agreed that Keith's playing/idea was more suitable for the rest of the track!?

All this discussion for such a throwaway song (Short & Curlies). Not even Taylor could salvage this wretched excuse for a tune.

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Amsterdamned
That's what's this thread is about.Taylor+Richards and how they function in S&C
Nonsense?

It's meant to be about forum members opinions on what Mick Taylor's top ten is.

OK, limiting my choices to officially released albums (this omits Brussels, of course):

1. Sway
2. Love In Vain (Ya-Yas version)
3. Winter
4. 100 Years Ago
5. Moonlight Mile
6. Honky Tonk Women (single or Ya-Yas)
7. Shine A Light
8. Stop Breaking Down
9. Time Waits For No One
10. Sympathy For The Devil (Ya-Yas)

Isn't Mick Taylors top ten as simple as complete Sticky Fingers?

2 1 2 0

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Come On
Isn't Mick Taylors top ten as simple as complete Sticky Fingers?

No! He doesn't play on Sister Morphine.

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Amsterdamned
As for Keith sounding Taylor-esque on Short And Curlies I must say this is downright wrong, musically speaking. It just makes no musical sense, as Keith just rambles thru his usual blues licks here, without any attempt of the fluidity that makes Taylor's signature.<DP>


That's exactly what I wanted to point in my first post here.
Taylor only plays some licks in the first seconds, and this has been taken over by Keith in a rather inconspicuous way.
If you don't know this-like <pepganzo>, or your not into the details the way of Taylor and Richards differ, you wouldn't notice.
So Keith did a great job, however I would prefer Mick's fluidity troughout the entire song.Taylor's slide vanishes,and Keith certainly adapts to that. Besides many of Keith licks remind of Taylor here. IMO one must be rather deaf not to notice this.

Exactly.