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Mathijs
Every period has its own magic in my opinion. I love the creativity from '65 to '68, I love the golden period of '68 to '73 where Jagger and Richards where the best songwriters in the history of rock, and where the band accidentally had a wonderful lead guitar player adding a third dimension during live shows. I love the sleaziness of the '75/'76 shows, and I love the tightness, the rhythm section and weaving of the '77 to '83 period. '89/'90 was great as they showed the world why they once were the greatest R&R band in the world, but I really believe they should have quite when Wyman left.

Everyone is entitled to its own opinion. But what really bothers me, as this board is dear to me, is the sheer overpowering of Kleermaker and to lesser extent Amsterdamned. With each and every thread that is started, if you leave 20 minutes to get a cup of coffee they have extended the thread to 7 pages with about 34 posts –all heated arguing and name calling.

And the posts are all the same: you are a total idiot because you like a piece of music that does not have Taylor playing on it. If you dare to say otherwise, I will show you that you don’t understand music with parallels to Mozart. All great guitar parts are by Taylor, and if not it is Keith copying Taylor because he was jealous of Taylor.

Again, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I don’t want anyone to leave this board. But the overpowering of Kleermaker (and of other posters long before Kleermaker joined) has made respected posters leave, and has made this board less fun. And this board is too dear to me to let that happen if I can do anything about it.

Mathijs

Good post, Mathijs. And though we have disagreed on some things, I think you're right about these phases of the Stones, and I think you're especially right about saying they should have quit after Wyman left. This is why I just don't "count" the albums after Steel Wheels. In a big way, I don't feel they are "legitimate" Rolling Stones albums.

As for posters leaving, I hope NO respected posters leave.

As for the perennial Taylor/Wood debates (which I certainly have participated in often): I think this is a legitimate subject matter, which of course will never be resolved one way or another. Even though I prefer the Taylor period, it is only in context of the band as a whole. Taylor himself is not solely responsible for the great work produced when he was in the group. The group brought out the best in him as much or more than the reverse. He needed those songs and that structure to flourish. Without it he has mostly floundered. Personally, I think having him in the group challenged Richards and made him play at a higher standard, whereas Wood allowed him to be perhaps lazier. But it was still Jagger and Richards who came up with the material.

It is regrettable that these discussions turn into personal recriminations and bad feelings on anyone's part.

Wow, as a rookie to this board I never expected my original thread to turn into this!!

I love all era's of the Stones for what they are. I wonder if the second guitarist shouldn't have term limits. I think they get rode hard and put away wet and by year 6 or so it's time to bring in fresh blood. Both Brian and MT left virtual broken men. And by 1980/81 Ronnie was horribly addicted to freebase. Maybe, the position is just more than what most can handle.

I believe Ronnie's strengths are as follows: song-writing, coming up with interesting chord changes and riffs and also slide guitar. Unfortunately he does not get to capitalize on those strengths as often as would be necessary for true artistic growth. It's Mick and Keith's ball and they will do with it what they will but I think a lot of the studio albums would have been much stronger had they allowed Ronnie to write with them or for them. Dirty Work not withstanding.

TD75

Quote: 71Tele

It is regrettable that these discussions turn into personal recriminations and bad feelings on anyone's part.

Even though people keep nagging don't get personal (it's sometime hard I know) but this is the way to keep this Board for relaxation
and fun

__________________________

It is a shame when folk choose to leave, but kleermaker, it seems, decided to post in a certain way and joined firing taylor bullets in the direction of anyone who did not see things his way, he tried to use a Taylor - Mozart name association game too, pathetically so IMO.

Anyway, you can't go pissing on people's favourite music ie post taylor stones and/or musicians ie Ronnie Wood and not expect to get flack for it, if you are going to post like that best not be too sensitive or give of a damn what other people think.

He said stuff, got the replies he deserved, but couldn't take the heat so he left... Again.

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His Majesty
It is a shame when folk choose to leave, but kleermaker, it seems, decided to post in a certain way and joined firing taylor bullets in the direction of anyone who did not see things his way, he tried to use a Taylor - Mozart name association game too, pathetically so IMO.

Anyway, you can't go pissing on people's favourite music ie post taylor stones and/or musicians ie Ronnie Wood and not expect to get flack for it, if you are going to post like that best not be too sensitive or give of a damn what other people think.

He said stuff, got the replies he deserved, but couldn't take the heat so he left... Again.

Is kleermaker gone?

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71Tele
Is kleermaker gone?

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kleermaker
I'm just wasting my time by posting here any longer.

So my friends, I'm gonna kiss you goodbye. I was away for quite some time and that felt very good, but I made a big mistake by coming back. So bye boys, I'm leaving here. No more fun.

Many thanks again to the uploaders. I owe them a lot. Best part of the site imo.

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Keep On Rolling

What would be the big deal in letting someone else have a song on a Stones record, are they that artistically perfect that Wyman, Jones, Taylor and Woods couldnt even get a writting credit on any song let alone one of their own. Surely they are not that greedy that they must get every cent they can, have they thought of encouraging or even helping out other band members.

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Like many taylorites here, silly name, he seems to have issues with Ronnie Wood as a player and the stones with Ronnie as a member.

Not just "taylorites"(stupid name) have a problem with Ronnie woods "playing", I'd say guitar players in general do.

I'm not trying to knock the stones as a band after Mick left, but Ronnie doesn't really give anybody a reason to defend his playing.

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lapaz62
What would be the big deal in letting someone else have a song on a Stones record, are they that artistically perfect that Wyman, Jones, Taylor and Woods couldnt even get a writting credit on any song let alone one of their own. Surely they are not that greedy that they must get every cent they can, have they thought of encouraging or even helping out other band members.

I think the fundamental thing is once Jagger and to a lesser extent Richards seized control of the band in the late sixties they were very reluctant to relinquish it. I hate to say it, I think they are that greedy.

Jagger seems to be to have been smart enough to co-write with Taylor, but didn't want to lose any publishing royalties. The fact that "Ventilator Blues" and "I'm Going Down" do have shared credits indicates Taylor must have had a hell of a lot to do with them. Because they sound far less involved that songs we know he contributed to and received nothing for.

Richards seems to be re-writing history the way he wants it remembered. His biography is a good read, but some of it is laughable. He doesn't want to acknowledge Brian Jones was ever in the band, let alone his musical superior, and likewise he was threatened by Taylor musically and hired Ronnie to be a little brother that posed no threat to him in any respect. You'd have to ask, if he's such a songwriting genius, why don't we get great songs anymore?

To me it's a shame they were such control freaks, because everyone could have got what they wanted with just a little bit more flexibility. Richards still could have come up with amazing grooves and rhythm, Jagger could have come up with great songs and lyrics, and Taylor could have continued adding magnificent flourishes in just the right spots.

<If you dare to say otherwise, I will show you that you don’t understand music with parallels to Mozart.> <Mathijs>

Speaking for myself:

I often prefer someone's vivid posts and "wild" imagination more, true or not.

The amount of posts is another matter and are not of your, my, or anyone's business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-11 15:49 by Amsterdamned.

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MickTaylorfan27
Not just "taylorites"(stupid name) have a problem with Ronnie woods "playing", I'd say guitar players in general do.

I'm not trying to knock the stones as a band after Mick left, but Ronnie doesn't really give anybody a reason to defend his playing.

Speaking as both a fan and a guitar player, I think it's more frustration that Ronnie's talent as a guitarist seem to have been nullified and diminished. I continue to really, really like his playing with the Faces. He had a unique style that suited the band perfectly. Whether he got lazy with the Stones, whether all the substance abuse affected him, who knows, but it seems his output got lower and lower.

Unfortunately, as time has gone on, the difference in quality between Ronnie and his predecessor has become more apparent. Or at least how their talents were used.

Like I said, I wasn't trying to knock Ronie, if thats's how it came out. I'll give him credit, the solo on "Hand of fate"(if that was him that played it) was pretty good. Did he ever really get many chances to do solos on their studio albums though?

What are some of Mick's best solos from his time with Bob Dylan? I know he plays a nice solo at the end of 'sweetheart like you' and has some nice ones on the 'real live' album, but can anyone point out some other ones worth checking out?

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MickTaylorfan27
Like I said, I wasn't trying to knock Ronie, if thats's how it came out. I'll give him credit, the solo on "Hand of fate"(if that was him that played it) was pretty good. Did he ever really get many chances to do solos on their studio albums though?

A nice read, sorry if this has been posted before:


Like a Rolling Stone

Guitarist Eric Clapton, with whom Perkins had been hanging out in Jamaica while Clapton was preparing to record There's One in Every Crowd, contacted the Rolling Stones to arrange an audition for Perkins after Stones guitarist Mick Taylor quit in 1974. "I stayed in Kingston with Clapton for a month or two," Perkins says. "One morning at the breakfast table Eric said, 'Did you hear that Mick Taylor quit the Stones?' And I said, 'Naww, have they found anybody to take his place?' Eric said he didn't think they had, so I said, 'Well, hell, put in a phone call for me.' So Clapton called Jagger and told him, 'Yeah, this boy Perkins can play some guitar.' So Eric—and Leon Russell—were my references to get to the Stones." Months earlier, Perkins had played bass on Stones bassist Bill Wyman's solo debut, Monkey Grip.


Keith Richards, a reggae fanatic, was familiar with Perkins' work on Catch a Fire. "Far as I know, I was the last one to audition for the Stones job. They had rented a theater in Rotterdam. I basically got off the plane and walked into the audition room," recalls Perkins. "Keith was sitting on a couch with Bill Wyman. And there was a spotlight in the middle of the room. I set my guitars down and was just standing there, and they're all looking up at me. I had never met them before. I was standing there in that spotlight. It was kind of understood that that's where I was supposed to stand because nobody offered a chair. I was talking to Keith when suddenly Jagger and Charlie Watts came up behind me, and they both stood right next to me, really close. Mick and Charlie were looking straight ahead, they wouldn't even look at me. I looked to each side and both of them are staring straight ahead like they're posing for an album cover. Then they walked off without saying a word. They put me in the center of this portrait thing that they were doing, like a lineup. They wanted to see if I looked like a Rolling Stone, and I hadn't even played a note for 'em yet."

It is now known that Perkins was competing with Jeff Beck and Peter Frampton, among others, for the job. The Stones eventually chose Ron Wood.

Perkins' audition impressed the Stones enough that he was invited to play on the sessions that would become the Black and Blue album. "We started out cold on 'Hand of Fate' one night. We were just kind of starting from scratch with something that Keith had a musical idea about," Perkins says. "He had the basic track down, but he didn't have a bridge, or what they call 'a middle-eight.' I was playing a counter-guitar part to Keith, and I started doing this Motown lick that goes along to what he's playing. And so we're cooking along there, and Mick's walking around the room with a tambourine, and he'd go stand in the corner and shake that damn tambourine. And he's singing to himself, and he's off in his own world trying to figure out what's what. The whole thing sounded real rough, too. It kinda just sucked. [Perkins is not the first musician to comment on the Stones' lack of musical finesse.] It was like the worst garage band I'd ever heard in my life. Then the engineer turned on the red light [to begin recording] and it's like somebody reached out with a magic wand and went, 'Bing!' And all of a sudden, it's the Stones! Damnedest thing I've ever seen."

Perkins lived with Richards and his longtime girlfriend Anita Pallenberg for a month or so in a cottage behind the London home of Ron Wood (who was still a member of The Faces at the time). Richards treated Perkins as the new band member. "We started hangin' out and having a big ol' time. We got along great," says Perkins. "But when Mick came into the picture . . . If I was with Mick, it was all right. If I was with Keith, it was all right. But when the two of them got together, I seemed to automatically fall under a microscope without even trying. Keith and Mick were still going at it over me, because I was under the impression from Keith that I was already in the band. Keith was teaching me their songs and gave me two cassettes of about 60 songs that included what the Stones might play on their 1975 tour. While we were in Germany, they had these two rooms and on the walls were [designs] of different stage setups and they were asking me my opinion of which stage I liked. We cut 'Memory Motel' from scratch like we did 'Hand of Fate.' Keith was on Fender Rhodes, Mick was on grand piano, and I was in some soundbooth with an acoustic guitar and I overdubbed electric guitar later. And then I overdubbed some slide on 'Fool to Cry.' We cut like 10 tracks that were just jamming, and then later on they turned this into some stuff, and a couple of those ended up on Tattoo You." 1981's Tattoo You, though presented at the time as an album of new songs, was actually cobbled together from unreleased songs recorded from 1973 to 1975. Perkins plays the jaw-dropping guitar solo on "Worried About You."

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MickTaylorfan27
What are some of Mick's best solos from his time with Bob Dylan? I know he plays a nice solo at the end of 'sweetheart like you' and has some nice ones on the 'real live' album, but can anyone point out some other ones worth checking out?

Funny, my brother keeps hassling me to find his copy of "Real Live" on CD he thinks I have. There are great solos on "Ballad of a Thin Man", "Masters of War", and I think "Tombstone Blues" (it's been a while), but apart from that album I'm not sure myself.

I put this on You Tube, what was this session all about and did any recordings come of it. Its a radio session with Erwan Nijhoff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-15 14:49 by lapaz62.