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You guys are starting to make me feel like I'm missing something. Maybe I'll become a huge Deadhead. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened. My friends would stage an intervention though.
i think bb king is overrated to be honest....
i'll add billy gibbons to my list which was leslie west
Yes, especially on the underrated "You Get What You Play For"
"No Anchovies, Please"
you seem to object as much to the "scene" as the music. does that mean the scene, the costumes, and all the other non-musical things have to work for you to like an artist? i'm sure the answer is no...yet you continue to use those elements in your arguments about the grateful dead. you don't like their music, fine...it just cheapens your arugment, though, when you bring these other elements into it as though they have ANYTHING to do with the price of eggs.
jerry brought noodling to an art-form, yes. so did john coltrane and miles davis and thousands of other improvisational geniuses (genii?).
I would probably agree with this.
He's not really played as his personal peak since the 70s and he NEVER could sing worth a damn and nobody can convince that he could ever sing.
However, he does certainly does have a stylistic importance historically speaking. He has also been influential with the less is more approach but almost nobody that claims him as an influence actually practices what they preach.
I don't know, I appreciate his impact historically but I have always been mystified as to why he became so famous and lauded where others fell into obscurity.
I saw a review on Amazon by a customer for a Bobby Bland CD that claimed that Bobby was mediocre and BB King was more versitile and artisic. I don't get it at all....
I can name ten people from the same era who sing better than BB ever did. I can name a few better guitarists too.
It's all an opinion of course, but I know for a fact that I am not the only serious blues fan that holds it.
BB King's stature was was due in some part to Eric Clapton and a few others constantly pushing him into the publics minds as THE blues man, THE greatest blues player, etc etc.
no way. b.b. was a legend years before anyone had ever heard of eric clapton. that's some seriously flawed revisionist history you're touting there....
Not at all. I'm talking about his CURRENT stature and that is largely because of what I said and know-nothing writers in Rolling Stone and Guitar magazines latching on to the guy they were supposed to.
He had several R&B hits in the 50s but I don't know how much of a 'legend' he was in the mid 60s. I think you are overstating.
Besides there were several other legends in the 60s and 70s and they died in obscurity.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-22 20:03 by KeefintheNight82.
good lawd. what a bunch of hooey.
This is all very true.
I would add that his good records of the 50s, I wouldn't say, are any better or worse than others of the same era.
What do you think elevated BB King to iconic status?
Even considering that he does cocktail or 'sophisticated' blues, there were others that were just as good or better at it. Lowell Fulson comes to mind. But Fulson never achieved anywhere near the level of success that BB King has.
not overstating one bit. for a self-described blues fan, you have a little history to learn, i think....
b.b. was headlining venues like the fillmore in the mid-to-late sixties...headlining rock festivals, even....
this idea that he became a darling of the blues in later years cos of rolling stone and ec is just blatant hooey....the man earned his place in blues history the hard way. of course he's not out of the same school as the muddy's and the hound dogs...he's "cityfied" like bobby blue bland...but it's an equally compelling and important strain of the blues.
fulson was great, but in the fifties, bb WAS king and guys like fulson were considered second-stringers....
If you think you are evidence of this argument, I remain unconvinced.
When you resort to personal attacks in lieu of arguments you should expect the same in kind.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-22 20:44 by 71Tele.
That's not exactly what I'm saying and you know it. I don't think BB's entire career is based on Rolling Stone magazine.
I do think him being a watered down blues act with mediocre mainstream vocals that are pretty much blues cliches now and his constant lauding by big names has greatly contributed to his mass appeal.
He took something and watered it down for the masses in musical terms as well as vocal delivery so it will appeal to the largest number of people, then he became a representation of the genre for most people. The way that Bob Marley WAS reggae.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
Midnight Toker
()
Date: April 22, 2011 02:48
Doyle Bramhall Jr
Walter Becker
Brian May
Elliot Easton
Brad Whitford
Walter Becker
Brian May
Elliot Easton
Brad Whitford
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
sweetcharmedlife
()
Date: April 22, 2011 02:49
Bruce Springsteen
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
sweetcharmedlife
()
Date: April 22, 2011 02:51
No it's probably because the bus driver is stoned and just missed you.Quote
71TeleQuote
sweetcharmedlife
I know someone I'd like to throw under a bus at this point.
Well, if you threw me under that bus, it would probably just float over me from all the good Jerry vibes.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: April 22, 2011 02:52
Quote
sweetcharmedlifeNo it's probably because the bus driver is stoned and just missed you.Quote
71TeleQuote
sweetcharmedlife
I know someone I'd like to throw under a bus at this point.
Well, if you threw me under that bus, it would probably just float over me from all the good Jerry vibes.
You guys are starting to make me feel like I'm missing something. Maybe I'll become a huge Deadhead. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened. My friends would stage an intervention though.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
flilflam
()
Date: April 22, 2011 03:04
How about:
BB King
Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top
BB King
Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
KeefintheNight82
()
Date: April 22, 2011 04:09
Who doesn't rate BB King?
Surely he is not underrated.
Surely he is not underrated.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
guitarbastard
()
Date: April 22, 2011 04:15
Quote
KeefintheNight82
Who doesn't rate BB King?
Surely he is not underrated.
i think bb king is overrated to be honest....
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: April 22, 2011 04:19
Quote
flilflam
How about:
BB King
Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top
i'll add billy gibbons to my list which was leslie west
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
sweetcharmedlife
()
Date: April 22, 2011 06:44
Gary Richrath
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: April 22, 2011 06:49
i don't think i've seen robbie robertson listed on here
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
iggy.pop
()
Date: April 22, 2011 16:53
Robert Smith & Porl Thompson, from The Cure.
Joe Strummer & Mick Jones, from Clash.
One not mention very Often : John McGeoch from Siouxsie & The Banshees & PiL.
Keith Levene from Pil.
Joe Strummer & Mick Jones, from Clash.
One not mention very Often : John McGeoch from Siouxsie & The Banshees & PiL.
Keith Levene from Pil.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: April 22, 2011 16:59
Quote
sweetcharmedlife
Gary Richrath
Yes, especially on the underrated "You Get What You Play For"
"No Anchovies, Please"
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: April 22, 2011 17:00
And let's not forget Jerome Geils!
"No Anchovies, Please"
"No Anchovies, Please"
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 22, 2011 17:01
Quote
71TeleQuote
StonesTodQuote
71Tele
The hysteria of the Dead fans here is hilarious. They cannot accept that someone would objectively listen to the joyous wonder that is the Dead and take a pass. There must be something wrong with me, right? Or I must simply be ignorant? Frankly, you sound like the cult people accuse Deadheads of being. If you don't like it, you must just not "get it", as if it's not possible to simply not like their music or their scene.
hysteria? what hysteria, tele? i thought we were having a reasonable debate.
i discount the whole "scene" business as I think you'd like the scene just fine if you could enjoy the music itself.
you indicated you're not much into jazz. i think most "deadheads" are very much into jazz and that's where we depart in our tastes. no harm, no foul. but to keep beating the drums on the supposedly rabid jerry-worshipping and cultness aspects is really ridiculous. i love the dead for their music; plain and simple. and that, i believe, goes for most of those who are into the band. you don't and that's fine. can we just leave it there?
Well, maybe not hysteria...I thought there were some silly comments directed my way which seemed to imply that not liking the Grateful Dead was some sort of personal weakness. I never asked anyone else to justify their love for the Dead or to stop loving them - just to accept that I don't. You seem to downplay the fact that there is a social scene around the Dead - much more so than other artists. I am not saying there is anything wrong with it, or that you personally are in it. Just that it doesn't speak to me, like Star Trek conventions or Scientology.
Jazz is fine, but jeez talk about "noodling" (as we often do here). Jerry was the King Of The Noodlers. In fact I have a very good friend who plays like him, he just starts noodling over whatever you're doing. His name is Mike but we call him "Noodles".
you seem to object as much to the "scene" as the music. does that mean the scene, the costumes, and all the other non-musical things have to work for you to like an artist? i'm sure the answer is no...yet you continue to use those elements in your arguments about the grateful dead. you don't like their music, fine...it just cheapens your arugment, though, when you bring these other elements into it as though they have ANYTHING to do with the price of eggs.
jerry brought noodling to an art-form, yes. so did john coltrane and miles davis and thousands of other improvisational geniuses (genii?).
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
dewlover
()
Date: April 22, 2011 17:54
"Maybe I'll become a huge Deadhead"
Not likely, Deadheads are smart...
Not likely, Deadheads are smart...
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
microvibe
()
Date: April 22, 2011 18:06
james honeyman scott-pretenders
martin barre-jethro tull
frank marino-mahoghany rush
j.geils
brad whitford-aerosmith
martin barre-jethro tull
frank marino-mahoghany rush
j.geils
brad whitford-aerosmith
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
KeefintheNight82
()
Date: April 22, 2011 18:56
Quote
guitarbastardQuote
KeefintheNight82
Who doesn't rate BB King?
Surely he is not underrated.
i think bb king is overrated to be honest....
I would probably agree with this.
He's not really played as his personal peak since the 70s and he NEVER could sing worth a damn and nobody can convince that he could ever sing.
However, he does certainly does have a stylistic importance historically speaking. He has also been influential with the less is more approach but almost nobody that claims him as an influence actually practices what they preach.
I don't know, I appreciate his impact historically but I have always been mystified as to why he became so famous and lauded where others fell into obscurity.
I saw a review on Amazon by a customer for a Bobby Bland CD that claimed that Bobby was mediocre and BB King was more versitile and artisic. I don't get it at all....
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 22, 2011 19:09
ha - well, i think b.b. is one of the greatest blues players and singers ever. i really didn't know that there were serious music fans who didn't think likewise. go figure....
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
KeefintheNight82
()
Date: April 22, 2011 19:23
Quote
StonesTod
ha - well, i think b.b. is one of the greatest blues players and singers ever. i really didn't know that there were serious music fans who didn't think likewise. go figure....
I can name ten people from the same era who sing better than BB ever did. I can name a few better guitarists too.
It's all an opinion of course, but I know for a fact that I am not the only serious blues fan that holds it.
BB King's stature was was due in some part to Eric Clapton and a few others constantly pushing him into the publics minds as THE blues man, THE greatest blues player, etc etc.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 22, 2011 19:41
Quote
KeefintheNight82
BB King's stature was was due in some part to Eric Clapton and a few others constantly pushing him into the publics minds as THE blues man, THE greatest blues player, etc etc.
no way. b.b. was a legend years before anyone had ever heard of eric clapton. that's some seriously flawed revisionist history you're touting there....
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
humanriff77
()
Date: April 22, 2011 19:49
The problem with BB King is he was well past his peak even in the seventies, he is a figure in blues like Eric Clapton is in rock n roll, competent but boring and sells most of his records to an audience who know very little about music. He did make some good records in the 50`s like Clapton in the 60`s but that was a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggg time ago.If you ask 100 BB King fans if they own a Hound Dog Taylor record 99 will say no, he represents cocktail blues not the real stuff.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
KeefintheNight82
()
Date: April 22, 2011 19:58
Quote
StonesTodQuote
KeefintheNight82
BB King's stature was was due in some part to Eric Clapton and a few others constantly pushing him into the publics minds as THE blues man, THE greatest blues player, etc etc.
no way. b.b. was a legend years before anyone had ever heard of eric clapton. that's some seriously flawed revisionist history you're touting there....
Not at all. I'm talking about his CURRENT stature and that is largely because of what I said and know-nothing writers in Rolling Stone and Guitar magazines latching on to the guy they were supposed to.
He had several R&B hits in the 50s but I don't know how much of a 'legend' he was in the mid 60s. I think you are overstating.
Besides there were several other legends in the 60s and 70s and they died in obscurity.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-22 20:03 by KeefintheNight82.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
Claire_M
()
Date: April 22, 2011 20:00
Steve Howe
Maybe he's too versatile - doesn't have one signature sound/style - or maybe it's the dreaded "unhip" and "prog" labels that Yes is unfairly saddled with.
Maybe he's too versatile - doesn't have one signature sound/style - or maybe it's the dreaded "unhip" and "prog" labels that Yes is unfairly saddled with.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 22, 2011 20:10
Quote
humanriff77
If you ask 100 BB King fans if they own a Hound Dog Taylor record 99 will say no, he represents cocktail blues not the real stuff.
good lawd. what a bunch of hooey.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
KeefintheNight82
()
Date: April 22, 2011 20:14
Quote
humanriff77
The problem with BB King is he was well past his peak even in the seventies, he is a figure in blues like Eric Clapton is in rock n roll, competent but boring and sells most of his records to an audience who know very little about music. He did make some good records in the 50`s like Clapton in the 60`s but that was a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggg time ago.If you ask 100 BB King fans if they own a Hound Dog Taylor record 99 will say no, he represents cocktail blues not the real stuff.
This is all very true.
I would add that his good records of the 50s, I wouldn't say, are any better or worse than others of the same era.
What do you think elevated BB King to iconic status?
Even considering that he does cocktail or 'sophisticated' blues, there were others that were just as good or better at it. Lowell Fulson comes to mind. But Fulson never achieved anywhere near the level of success that BB King has.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 22, 2011 20:16
Quote
KeefintheNight82
He had several R&B hits in the 50s but I don't know how much of a 'legend' he was in the mid 60s. I think you are overstating.
not overstating one bit. for a self-described blues fan, you have a little history to learn, i think....
b.b. was headlining venues like the fillmore in the mid-to-late sixties...headlining rock festivals, even....
this idea that he became a darling of the blues in later years cos of rolling stone and ec is just blatant hooey....the man earned his place in blues history the hard way. of course he's not out of the same school as the muddy's and the hound dogs...he's "cityfied" like bobby blue bland...but it's an equally compelling and important strain of the blues.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 22, 2011 20:18
Quote
KeefintheNight82
Even considering that he does cocktail or 'sophisticated' blues, there were others that were just as good or better at it. Lowell Fulson comes to mind. But Fulson never achieved anywhere near the level of success that BB King has.
fulson was great, but in the fifties, bb WAS king and guys like fulson were considered second-stringers....
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: April 22, 2011 20:40
Quote
dewlover
"Maybe I'll become a huge Deadhead"
Not likely, Deadheads are smart...
If you think you are evidence of this argument, I remain unconvinced.
When you resort to personal attacks in lieu of arguments you should expect the same in kind.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-22 20:44 by 71Tele.
Re: OT: Top 5 Underrated Guitarists
Posted by:
KeefintheNight82
()
Date: April 22, 2011 20:41
Quote
StonesTodQuote
KeefintheNight82
He had several R&B hits in the 50s but I don't know how much of a 'legend' he was in the mid 60s. I think you are overstating.
not overstating one bit. for a self-described blues fan, you have a little history to learn, i think....
b.b. was headlining venues like the fillmore in the mid-to-late sixties...headlining rock festivals, even....
this idea that he became a darling of the blues in later years cos of rolling stone and ec is just blatant hooey....the man earned his place in blues history the hard way. of course he's not out of the same school as the muddy's and the hound dogs...he's "cityfied" like bobby blue bland...but it's an equally compelling and important strain of the blues.
That's not exactly what I'm saying and you know it. I don't think BB's entire career is based on Rolling Stone magazine.
I do think him being a watered down blues act with mediocre mainstream vocals that are pretty much blues cliches now and his constant lauding by big names has greatly contributed to his mass appeal.
He took something and watered it down for the masses in musical terms as well as vocal delivery so it will appeal to the largest number of people, then he became a representation of the genre for most people. The way that Bob Marley WAS reggae.
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