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sweetcharmedlife

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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bjornone
Jerry Garcia is the best rock guitarist ever, period.

Still, there is a strong idea today that you either have to be (1) a heavy metal guitarist (2) have a huge ego or (3) play incredible fast to be counted as a top guitarist (preferably all of them). That is why he is mostly out of the discussion. Garcia had a unique sense for communicating through his guitar and touched on every kind of human feeling. Still, he was the opposite of the narcissistic guitar heroes you find on the magazine covers. (But yes, he could also play REALLY fast if that is what is counted!)

Agreed!

The same can be said of Keith Richards. I think Garcia was a great guitarist too...too bad it was wasted on that crap hippie music.

Come on man. If your gonna post a stereotypical,prejudiced hippie comment.Can't you do better than that? I guess you can say it's too bad Keith's playing was wasted on drug fueled,ripped off blues songs.

This is a thread about "sacred cows" right? And the Grateful Dead is one. Their music is less than meets the eye, and their aura of hippie ethos is phony. This is my opinion. I think Garcia was a good musician. That band? The two drummers? Bob Weir? The keyboardists who changed with Spinal Tap drummer-like regularity? The chick hippie background singer? The throngs of tie-dyed worshippers? Not so much.

Tele?

Derek Kelm

David Milner

Andrew Biegler

Neil Weller

Jon Schutz

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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bjornone
Jerry Garcia is the best rock guitarist ever, period.

Still, there is a strong idea today that you either have to be (1) a heavy metal guitarist (2) have a huge ego or (3) play incredible fast to be counted as a top guitarist (preferably all of them). That is why he is mostly out of the discussion. Garcia had a unique sense for communicating through his guitar and touched on every kind of human feeling. Still, he was the opposite of the narcissistic guitar heroes you find on the magazine covers. (But yes, he could also play REALLY fast if that is what is counted!)

Agreed!

The same can be said of Keith Richards. I think Garcia was a great guitarist too...too bad it was wasted on that crap hippie music.

Your opinion and a very uninformed one IMO!

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sweetcharmedlife

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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bjornone
Jerry Garcia is the best rock guitarist ever, period.

Still, there is a strong idea today that you either have to be (1) a heavy metal guitarist (2) have a huge ego or (3) play incredible fast to be counted as a top guitarist (preferably all of them). That is why he is mostly out of the discussion. Garcia had a unique sense for communicating through his guitar and touched on every kind of human feeling. Still, he was the opposite of the narcissistic guitar heroes you find on the magazine covers. (But yes, he could also play REALLY fast if that is what is counted!)

Agreed!

The same can be said of Keith Richards. I think Garcia was a great guitarist too...too bad it was wasted on that crap hippie music.

Come on man. If your gonna post a stereotypical,prejudiced hippie comment.Can't you do better than that? I guess you can say it's too bad Keith's playing was wasted on drug fueled,ripped off blues songs.

Agreed SCL a very stupid comment!

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71Tele

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sweetcharmedlife

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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bjornone
Jerry Garcia is the best rock guitarist ever, period.

Still, there is a strong idea today that you either have to be (1) a heavy metal guitarist (2) have a huge ego or (3) play incredible fast to be counted as a top guitarist (preferably all of them). That is why he is mostly out of the discussion. Garcia had a unique sense for communicating through his guitar and touched on every kind of human feeling. Still, he was the opposite of the narcissistic guitar heroes you find on the magazine covers. (But yes, he could also play REALLY fast if that is what is counted!)

Agreed!

The same can be said of Keith Richards. I think Garcia was a great guitarist too...too bad it was wasted on that crap hippie music.

Come on man. If your gonna post a stereotypical,prejudiced hippie comment.Can't you do better than that? I guess you can say it's too bad Keith's playing was wasted on drug fueled,ripped off blues songs.

This is a thread about "sacred cows" right? And the Grateful Dead is one. Their music is less than meets the eye, and their aura of hippie ethos is phony. This is my opinion. I think Garcia was a good musician. That band? The two drummers? Bob Weir? The keyboardists who changed with Spinal Tap drummer-like regularity? The chick hippie background singer? The throngs of tie-dyed worshippers? Not so much.

Obviously you missed the bus! Your loss. Perhaps if you had climbed aboard you would have a clue of what you speak!

I thought Tele's comment was pretty funny.

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No Expectations

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sweetcharmedlife

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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bjornone
Jerry Garcia is the best rock guitarist ever, period.

Still, there is a strong idea today that you either have to be (1) a heavy metal guitarist (2) have a huge ego or (3) play incredible fast to be counted as a top guitarist (preferably all of them). That is why he is mostly out of the discussion. Garcia had a unique sense for communicating through his guitar and touched on every kind of human feeling. Still, he was the opposite of the narcissistic guitar heroes you find on the magazine covers. (But yes, he could also play REALLY fast if that is what is counted!)

Agreed!

The same can be said of Keith Richards. I think Garcia was a great guitarist too...too bad it was wasted on that crap hippie music.

Come on man. If your gonna post a stereotypical,prejudiced hippie comment.Can't you do better than that? I guess you can say it's too bad Keith's playing was wasted on drug fueled,ripped off blues songs.

Agreed SCL a very stupid comment!

You can disagree with it, but it wasn't stupid. I am guilty of some hyperbole perhaps, but I do think the hippie ethos of The Dead is tiresome and cliche-ridden, as well as often hypocritical - but I never was a lover of the whole SF music thing anyway. For some of their followers, it's a need to fit in with a group, to belong. No harm in it. Everyone needs a hobby. I just think it's silly to hear grown men talk in worshipful tones about "Jerry" when in fact he turned out to be kind of a selfish junkie - miles apart from the whole "love and peace" image. Hey, people like the Dead, great. But my expression of my dislike for them is in no way stupid.

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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sweetcharmedlife

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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bjornone
Jerry Garcia is the best rock guitarist ever, period.

Still, there is a strong idea today that you either have to be (1) a heavy metal guitarist (2) have a huge ego or (3) play incredible fast to be counted as a top guitarist (preferably all of them). That is why he is mostly out of the discussion. Garcia had a unique sense for communicating through his guitar and touched on every kind of human feeling. Still, he was the opposite of the narcissistic guitar heroes you find on the magazine covers. (But yes, he could also play REALLY fast if that is what is counted!)

Agreed!

The same can be said of Keith Richards. I think Garcia was a great guitarist too...too bad it was wasted on that crap hippie music.

Come on man. If your gonna post a stereotypical,prejudiced hippie comment.Can't you do better than that? I guess you can say it's too bad Keith's playing was wasted on drug fueled,ripped off blues songs.

Agreed SCL a very stupid comment!

You can disagree with it, but it wasn't stupid. I am guilty of some hyperbole perhaps, but I do think the hippie ethos of The Dead is tiresome and cliche-ridden, as well as often hypocritical - but I never was a lover of the whole SF music thing anyway. For some of their followers, it's a need to fit in with a group, to belong. No harm in it. Everyone needs a hobby. I just think it's silly to hear grown men talk in worshipful tones about "Jerry" when in fact he turned out to be kind of a selfish junkie - miles apart from the whole "love and peace" image. Hey, people like the Dead, great. But my expression of my dislike for them is in no way stupid.

Ok if you do not want to call it stupid lets just say it's ignorant and uninformed! You obviously were not there and have NO 1st hand knowledge of the scene or the man himself so to pass judgement IS stupid on your part. And to refer to it as a "hobby" only further reflects your lack of knowledge on the subject.

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No Expectations

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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sweetcharmedlife

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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bjornone
Jerry Garcia is the best rock guitarist ever, period.

Still, there is a strong idea today that you either have to be (1) a heavy metal guitarist (2) have a huge ego or (3) play incredible fast to be counted as a top guitarist (preferably all of them). That is why he is mostly out of the discussion. Garcia had a unique sense for communicating through his guitar and touched on every kind of human feeling. Still, he was the opposite of the narcissistic guitar heroes you find on the magazine covers. (But yes, he could also play REALLY fast if that is what is counted!)

Agreed!

The same can be said of Keith Richards. I think Garcia was a great guitarist too...too bad it was wasted on that crap hippie music.

Come on man. If your gonna post a stereotypical,prejudiced hippie comment.Can't you do better than that? I guess you can say it's too bad Keith's playing was wasted on drug fueled,ripped off blues songs.

Agreed SCL a very stupid comment!

You can disagree with it, but it wasn't stupid. I am guilty of some hyperbole perhaps, but I do think the hippie ethos of The Dead is tiresome and cliche-ridden, as well as often hypocritical - but I never was a lover of the whole SF music thing anyway. For some of their followers, it's a need to fit in with a group, to belong. No harm in it. Everyone needs a hobby. I just think it's silly to hear grown men talk in worshipful tones about "Jerry" when in fact he turned out to be kind of a selfish junkie - miles apart from the whole "love and peace" image. Hey, people like the Dead, great. But my expression of my dislike for them is in no way stupid.

Ok if you do not want to call it stupid lets just say it's ignorant and uninformed! You obviously were not there and have NO 1st hand knowledge of the scene or the man himself so to pass judgement IS stupid on your part. And to refer to it as a "hobby" only further reflects your lack of knowledge on the subject.

It's not ignorant either. I know a lot of Dead fans, and you don't have to have been there to know that the Great God Jerry preferred his heroin to anything else in later years. And the Dead were a hobby to a lot of people. I would almost say more of a cult than a hobby, though a fairly harmless one.

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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sweetcharmedlife

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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bjornone
Jerry Garcia is the best rock guitarist ever, period.

Still, there is a strong idea today that you either have to be (1) a heavy metal guitarist (2) have a huge ego or (3) play incredible fast to be counted as a top guitarist (preferably all of them). That is why he is mostly out of the discussion. Garcia had a unique sense for communicating through his guitar and touched on every kind of human feeling. Still, he was the opposite of the narcissistic guitar heroes you find on the magazine covers. (But yes, he could also play REALLY fast if that is what is counted!)

Agreed!

The same can be said of Keith Richards. I think Garcia was a great guitarist too...too bad it was wasted on that crap hippie music.

Come on man. If your gonna post a stereotypical,prejudiced hippie comment.Can't you do better than that? I guess you can say it's too bad Keith's playing was wasted on drug fueled,ripped off blues songs.

Agreed SCL a very stupid comment!

You can disagree with it, but it wasn't stupid. I am guilty of some hyperbole perhaps, but I do think the hippie ethos of The Dead is tiresome and cliche-ridden, as well as often hypocritical - but I never was a lover of the whole SF music thing anyway. For some of their followers, it's a need to fit in with a group, to belong. No harm in it. Everyone needs a hobby. I just think it's silly to hear grown men talk in worshipful tones about "Jerry" when in fact he turned out to be kind of a selfish junkie - miles apart from the whole "love and peace" image. Hey, people like the Dead, great. But my expression of my dislike for them is in no way stupid.

Ok if you do not want to call it stupid lets just say it's ignorant and uninformed! You obviously were not there and have NO 1st hand knowledge of the scene or the man himself so to pass judgement IS stupid on your part. And to refer to it as a "hobby" only further reflects your lack of knowledge on the subject.

It's not ignorant either. I know a lot of Dead fans, and you don't have to have been there to know that the Great God Jerry preferred his heroin to anything else in later years. And the Dead were a hobby to a lot of people. I would almost say more of a cult than a hobby, though a fairly harmless one.

Top 5 Underrated Guitarists?

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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sweetcharmedlife

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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bjornone
Jerry Garcia is the best rock guitarist ever, period.

Still, there is a strong idea today that you either have to be (1) a heavy metal guitarist (2) have a huge ego or (3) play incredible fast to be counted as a top guitarist (preferably all of them). That is why he is mostly out of the discussion. Garcia had a unique sense for communicating through his guitar and touched on every kind of human feeling. Still, he was the opposite of the narcissistic guitar heroes you find on the magazine covers. (But yes, he could also play REALLY fast if that is what is counted!)

Agreed!

The same can be said of Keith Richards. I think Garcia was a great guitarist too...too bad it was wasted on that crap hippie music.

Come on man. If your gonna post a stereotypical,prejudiced hippie comment.Can't you do better than that? I guess you can say it's too bad Keith's playing was wasted on drug fueled,ripped off blues songs.

Agreed SCL a very stupid comment!

You can disagree with it, but it wasn't stupid. I am guilty of some hyperbole perhaps, but I do think the hippie ethos of The Dead is tiresome and cliche-ridden, as well as often hypocritical - but I never was a lover of the whole SF music thing anyway. For some of their followers, it's a need to fit in with a group, to belong. No harm in it. Everyone needs a hobby. I just think it's silly to hear grown men talk in worshipful tones about "Jerry" when in fact he turned out to be kind of a selfish junkie - miles apart from the whole "love and peace" image. Hey, people like the Dead, great. But my expression of my dislike for them is in no way stupid.

Ok if you do not want to call it stupid lets just say it's ignorant and uninformed! You obviously were not there and have NO 1st hand knowledge of the scene or the man himself so to pass judgement IS stupid on your part. And to refer to it as a "hobby" only further reflects your lack of knowledge on the subject.

It's not ignorant either. I know a lot of Dead fans, and you don't have to have been there to know that the Great God Jerry preferred his heroin to anything else in later years. And the Dead were a hobby to a lot of people. I would almost say more of a cult than a hobby, though a fairly harmless one.

So now you are judging a 30 year era by it's"later years". And yes you DID have to be there to have an informed opinion. You missed the bus...your loss my friend!

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No Expectations

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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sweetcharmedlife

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71Tele

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No Expectations

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bjornone
Jerry Garcia is the best rock guitarist ever, period.

Still, there is a strong idea today that you either have to be (1) a heavy metal guitarist (2) have a huge ego or (3) play incredible fast to be counted as a top guitarist (preferably all of them). That is why he is mostly out of the discussion. Garcia had a unique sense for communicating through his guitar and touched on every kind of human feeling. Still, he was the opposite of the narcissistic guitar heroes you find on the magazine covers. (But yes, he could also play REALLY fast if that is what is counted!)

Agreed!

The same can be said of Keith Richards. I think Garcia was a great guitarist too...too bad it was wasted on that crap hippie music.

Come on man. If your gonna post a stereotypical,prejudiced hippie comment.Can't you do better than that? I guess you can say it's too bad Keith's playing was wasted on drug fueled,ripped off blues songs.

Agreed SCL a very stupid comment!

You can disagree with it, but it wasn't stupid. I am guilty of some hyperbole perhaps, but I do think the hippie ethos of The Dead is tiresome and cliche-ridden, as well as often hypocritical - but I never was a lover of the whole SF music thing anyway. For some of their followers, it's a need to fit in with a group, to belong. No harm in it. Everyone needs a hobby. I just think it's silly to hear grown men talk in worshipful tones about "Jerry" when in fact he turned out to be kind of a selfish junkie - miles apart from the whole "love and peace" image. Hey, people like the Dead, great. But my expression of my dislike for them is in no way stupid.

Ok if you do not want to call it stupid lets just say it's ignorant and uninformed! You obviously were not there and have NO 1st hand knowledge of the scene or the man himself so to pass judgement IS stupid on your part. And to refer to it as a "hobby" only further reflects your lack of knowledge on the subject.

It's not ignorant either. I know a lot of Dead fans, and you don't have to have been there to know that the Great God Jerry preferred his heroin to anything else in later years. And the Dead were a hobby to a lot of people. I would almost say more of a cult than a hobby, though a fairly harmless one.

So now you are judging a 30 year era by it's"later years". And yes you DID have to be there to have an informed opinion. You missed the bus...your loss my friend!

That is one bus I did not want to be on. And I hate the smell of patchouli.

Ronnie Wood on this board for sure.
George Harrison
John Lennon
Paul McCartney
John Fogerty

All very good guitarists who are mor renowned for their composer skills than their playing, but they are really really greit players.

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NedKelly
Ronnie Wood on this board for sure.
George Harrison
John Lennon
Paul McCartney
John Fogerty

All very good guitarists who are mor renowned for their composer skills than their playing, but they are really really greit players.

Ron Wood has plenty of defenders on this board, you needn't worry.

I think your point is quite good about composers often not being appreciated for their guitar skills. Springsteen and Prince are two other guitarists I really like.

My personal medley for the moment (there so many more examples out there)

John Fahey
Nicky Garatt (UK Subs)
Jan Ackermann
Link Wray
Otis Rush

How can John McLaughlin, Mick Taylor or Adrian Belew be underrated? They're among the most respected guitar players ever.

Recently, there was this top 100-list which Taylor didn't make it in. That's pretty underrated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-20 15:21 by DandelionPowderman.

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leteyer
How can John McLaughlin, Mick Taylor or Adrian Belew be underrated? They're among the most respected guitar players ever.

People are missing the pont. I don't think they know what is meant by "underated'

Walter Lure
Charlie Sexton
Steve Albini
Alex Lifeson
Keith Levene

Yep, Mr Lure is underrated...

2 1 2 0

71 Tele,

Not that I dissagree with you (I don't really have an opinion on this) but I am curiou sif you could enlarge on what you said about The Dead, why was the hippie thing hypocritical? Are you saying the aura was fake and they used it purely for marketing reasons?

And what is it you don't like about Bob Weir? You think he is terrible?

I must confess, I don't know much about the Dead because everytime I try to listen to them, it sounds so mediocre and boring I just can't get into it. So I am curious what Tele really thinks about them in more detail.

So guys, please don't turn it into more arguing, you already defended the Dead and told Tele he was stupid.

By the way, next time No expectations has an opinion on ANYTHING I'm going to ask him if he was there, if he wasn't there, he must be stupid to think he could have an opinion.

video: [youtu.be]

Boring?

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KeefintheNight82
71 Tele,

Not that I dissagree with you (I don't really have an opinion on this) but I am curiou sif you could enlarge on what you said about The Dead, why was the hippie thing hypocritical? Are you saying the aura was fake and they used it purely for marketing reasons?

And what is it you don't like about Bob Weir? You think he is terrible?

I must confess, I don't know much about the Dead because everytime I try to listen to them, it sounds so mediocre and boring I just can't get into it. So I am curious what Tele really thinks about them in more detail.

So guys, please don't turn it into more arguing, you already defended the Dead and told Tele he was stupid.

By the way, next time No expectations has an opinion on ANYTHING I'm going to ask him if he was there, if he wasn't there, he must be stupid to think he could have an opinion.

I covered it on the "sacred cows" thread. My main point is that a mythology and even lifestyle were created around the Dead and Garcia in particular. Garcia as an actual person could be quite cutting and uncaring to the people around him, and his becoming a junkie made him behave as any other junkie does: selfishly. He allowed his love of heroin to nearly destroy his music and ultimately it did destroy his life. My problem is not with him (I don't expect people to be saints and heroes who are merely talented musicians), it is with the denial that many Dead fans have over how this guy really was. Reminds me of all the grannies who absolutely refused to believe Elvis was a pill-popping drug addict. They had their image and nobody was going to take it away from them.

As to their music, it's just not to my taste. Bob Weir? I do not understand what people see in this guy. Apparently the rest of the group was close to kicking him out more than once, so maybe ask them.

Sorry that I got into a Dead exchange on two threads. returning to the point of this one, Garcia was a great guitarist, but underrated? How? He seems very well rated.

Enough said from me on the subject.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-20 17:38 by 71Tele.

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71Tele
My problem is not with him (I don't expect people to be saints and heroes who are merely talented musicians), it is with the denial that many Dead fans have over how this guy really was.

i have a feeling i know alot more dead/jerry fans than you do, and i've never run across one like what you just described. i think your belief on the subject is the actual myth.

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StonesTod

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71Tele
My problem is not with him (I don't expect people to be saints and heroes who are merely talented musicians), it is with the denial that many Dead fans have over how this guy really was.

i have a feeling i know alot more dead/jerry fans than you do, and i've never run across one like what you just described. i think your belief on the subject is the actual myth.

OK. Check and mate.

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71Tele

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StonesTod

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71Tele
My problem is not with him (I don't expect people to be saints and heroes who are merely talented musicians), it is with the denial that many Dead fans have over how this guy really was.

i have a feeling i know alot more dead/jerry fans than you do, and i've never run across one like what you just described. i think your belief on the subject is the actual myth.

OK. Check and mate.

it's about the music, tele - always has been. and the proof of that is that, 16 years after jerry's passing, the legacy continues through the music. the dead tours, the furthur tours - i go to some of these and nobody's talking about jerry, they are celebrating the music that he and his bandmates produced. nobody's talking about this so-called mystical character or his personal aura.

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StonesTod

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71Tele

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StonesTod

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71Tele
My problem is not with him (I don't expect people to be saints and heroes who are merely talented musicians), it is with the denial that many Dead fans have over how this guy really was.

i have a feeling i know alot more dead/jerry fans than you do, and i've never run across one like what you just described. i think your belief on the subject is the actual myth.

OK. Check and mate.

it's about the music, tele - always has been. and the proof of that is that, 16 years after jerry's passing, the legacy continues through the music. the dead tours, the furthur tours - i go to some of these and nobody's talking about jerry, they are celebrating the music that he and his bandmates produced. nobody's talking about this so-called mystical character or his personal aura.

As I attempted to do, I withdraw from the argument. "You like this music and I don't" is never an argument that can be lost or won, and it's silly to try. But back to the thread, Garcia was not an underrated guitarist, given how high he was rated.

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71Tele

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StonesTod

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71Tele

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StonesTod

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71Tele
My problem is not with him (I don't expect people to be saints and heroes who are merely talented musicians), it is with the denial that many Dead fans have over how this guy really was.

i have a feeling i know alot more dead/jerry fans than you do, and i've never run across one like what you just described. i think your belief on the subject is the actual myth.

OK. Check and mate.

it's about the music, tele - always has been. and the proof of that is that, 16 years after jerry's passing, the legacy continues through the music. the dead tours, the furthur tours - i go to some of these and nobody's talking about jerry, they are celebrating the music that he and his bandmates produced. nobody's talking about this so-called mystical character or his personal aura.

As I attempted to do, I withdraw from the argument. "You like this music and I don't" is never an argument that can be lost or won, and it's silly to try. But back to the thread, Garcia was not an underrated guitarist, given how high he was rated.

touche

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71Tele

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KeefintheNight82
71 Tele,

Not that I dissagree with you (I don't really have an opinion on this) but I am curiou sif you could enlarge on what you said about The Dead, why was the hippie thing hypocritical? Are you saying the aura was fake and they used it purely for marketing reasons?

And what is it you don't like about Bob Weir? You think he is terrible?

I must confess, I don't know much about the Dead because everytime I try to listen to them, it sounds so mediocre and boring I just can't get into it. So I am curious what Tele really thinks about them in more detail.

So guys, please don't turn it into more arguing, you already defended the Dead and told Tele he was stupid.

By the way, next time No expectations has an opinion on ANYTHING I'm going to ask him if he was there, if he wasn't there, he must be stupid to think he could have an opinion.

I covered it on the "sacred cows" thread. My main point is that a mythology and even lifestyle were created around the Dead and Garcia in particular. Garcia as an actual person could be quite cutting and uncaring to the people around him, and his becoming a junkie made him behave as any other junkie does: selfishly. He allowed his love of heroin to nearly destroy his music and ultimately it did destroy his life. My problem is not with him (I don't expect people to be saints and heroes who are merely talented musicians), it is with the denial that many Dead fans have over how this guy really was. Reminds me of all the grannies who absolutely refused to believe Elvis was a pill-popping drug addict. They had their image and nobody was going to take it away from them.

As to their music, it's just not to my taste. Bob Weir? I do not understand what people see in this guy. Apparently the rest of the group was close to kicking him out more than once, so maybe ask them.

Sorry that I got into a Dead exchange on two threads. returning to the point of this one, Garcia was a great guitarist, but underrated? How? He seems very well rated.

Enough said from me on the subject.

Ok I understand you now. I have a grandmother who is EXACTLY like you describe about Elvis. She still argues that Elvis didn't know what he was taking and only took it because the doctor gave it to him!

Her twisting of him is incredible. She can't see the raging dopehead that overdosed at all.

She also completely believes that he waited until Priscilla was 'of age' before they slept together. When in fact he moved her in to his house in secret when she was what 14-15? And somehow Jerry Lee Lewis was demonized for a very similar thing.