Thanks Doxa. I wander if that is one of the King Bisuit Flour Hour versions I used to hear on the radio in the late 70s, early 80s.....Those recordings, from the 78 tour, were all great and they were my first introduction to live Stones. Mick is actually singing, Keith and Ronnie are actually weaving. ...
These songs would never be the same again on stage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-28 22:58 by stupidguy2.

Quote
dcba
In 1993 if the car sucked or had bad steering Rick Rubin would send it back to the factory. I'm not sure Was would have the balls to do this... He surely realized he had a long-time gig with the Stones provided he would be a yes-man.

Rubin only lasted one album (WS) but it's a decently-produced lp. In other words RR challenged Jagger, Don Was just polishes the Twins' shoes...

BIG difference!

Yep.
I don't care how great the new Lucinda WIlliams cd is, that's a different animal.
Was has been shitting in his pants since he started working with the Stones.....
his fanboy admiration is clear. People will say that he's caught between Mick and Keith's games, not his fault because Mick and Keith have ultimate control... blah, blah...
Someone with balls wouldn't let that happen because of their professional integrity.

The Stones' sound has lost its roughness, that's been a fact since the 80s....and who is at the controls? Was, unless Im mistaken. I haven't seen any other name in the production credits in decades.
Was is just happy to get the key to the vaults. He ain't ever going anywhere and we're just stuck with him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-28 23:04 by stupidguy2.

Don Was, that's enough. I think that his experience with the Stones should end.

Could we change the name of this thread to Don Wasn't?

Quote
stupidguy2
[The Stones' sound has lost its roughness, that's been a fact since the 80s....and who is at the controls? Was, unless Im mistaken. I haven't seen any other name in the production credits in decades.

Was started out doing a dance remix for them in 1989, then he mixed a live track in 1992. He didn't become their producer until VOODOO LOUNGE which was released in 1994. The music you dislike in the eighties was produced by Chris Kimsey with the exception of DIRTY WORK which was produced by Steve Lillywhite.
Since Kimsey gets the blame for UNDERCOVER and STEEL WHEELS, it might be worth noting he should likewise get the credit for SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE, and TATTOO YOU. What does all this point to? That Jagger and Richards deserve the credit or the blame for what works and what doesn't and not the guy turning the knobs and moving the faders. If Jimmy Miller was alive today and just as a great and successful a producer as he was in his prime, they would either not work with him or not listen to him if he told them to try harder. They are oo old and too rich and too proud to listen to criticism and they prefer to surround themselves with familiar faces who don't need to be broken in. It's true of producers as much as sidemen. Their choice. The buck stops with them.

Quote
stupidguy2

Quote
dcba
In 1993 if the car sucked or had bad steering Rick Rubin would send it back to the factory. I'm not sure Was would have the balls to do this... He surely realized he had a long-time gig with the Stones provided he would be a yes-man.

Rubin only lasted one album (WS) but it's a decently-produced lp. In other words RR challenged Jagger, Don Was just polishes the Twins' shoes...

BIG difference!

Yep.
I don't care how great the new Lucinda WIlliams cd is, that's a different animal.
Was has been shitting in his pants since he started working with the Stones.....
his fanboy admiration is clear. People will say that he's caught between Mick and Keith's games, not his fault because Mick and Keith have ultimate control... blah, blah...
Someone with balls wouldn't let that happen because of their professional integrity.

The Stones' sound has lost its roughness, that's been a fact since the 80s....and who is at the controls? Was, unless Im mistaken. I haven't seen any other name in the production credits in decades.
Was is just happy to get the key to the vaults. He ain't ever going anywhere and we're just stuck with him.

There are several producers credited on Bridges To Babylon - Don Was, Rob Fraboni, The Dust Brothers, Danny Saber, Rob Fraboni. The album is a hodge-podge of different sessions with different producers.

Furthermore, those Stones albums that you're saying have sounded so bad have had another producer in addition to Was credited on every occasion - someone called 'The Glimmer Twins'. They've had a production credit on every release since 1974.

The notion that Rubin or anyone else would be allowed to 'test' the Stones is laughable. Aside from the fact that he wouldnt work with Jagger again after their experience (because Jagger was so surrounded by yes-men that he couldnt deal with a producer telling him 'you can write better than this'), just imagine throwing Keith into the mix when you have a 'pushy' outsider in the control room. Keith would scalp him with 'the blade' after about ten minutes.

If Was is the wrong guy, then its Jagger and Richards' fault as his employer and for being stuck in a comfort zone.

Quote
Gazza
If Was is the wrong guy, then its Jagger and Richards' fault as his employer and for being stuck in a comfort zone.

Why does it seem like Was has been around the Stones forever? Is it my disdain for that dinosaur song, and his MOR work with Bonnie Raitt and the Willburys that is clouding my judgement? His ubiquity in the 80s and 90s.....Maybe. But let's start with VL then. Still not impressed, haven't listened to VL, B2B since the 90s. That's just me.
Was takes alot of hits by Stones fans because, IMO, he just doesn't seem to have that streak of ingenuity that great producers have. He's pissing himself in the control room kissing the ground they walk on, tingling with rapture and awe of producing the Stones. At least that's what it sounds like. He's just letting Mick and Keith be Mick and Keith. But Mick and Keith are not young artists in touch with the cultural zeigist as they were in the 60s, 70s as the Glimmer Twins (With an equally young motivated producer, Miller) they're old comfortable guys with alot of money and homes and an illustrious past. They seem to have no desire to kick it up a notch. That's fine for them. But I want more because Im a selfish fan.
I'm not naive to think anyone could tell Mick and Keith what to do differently, but the argument against Was is probably more frustration on the part of Stones fans who want the guys to mix it up a bit with other collaborators, what's the harm in charting unfamiliar territory. It ain't Was' fault, as you suggest,
It's all on the Glimmer Twins' own complacency. Rubin gets so much love because he deserves it. His track record is of a great producer who makes a difference in the studio.
I'd also love for someone to get Aretha Franklin in a studio with just her piano and a tight funky band and ditch Clive Davis' MOR sensiblities, but that ain't going to happen either, for the same reason it won't happen with the Stones....too lazy.
I used to take Miller's contribution for granted, believing, naively perhaps, that it was all Mick and Keith and a producer, like all producers, were just sitting in some booth pushing some knobs. That was probably the musician in me.
But I was wrong. I've discovered that producers produce, direct and oversee the outcome of the environment, atmosphere, mood feel of a recording session.....they bring all the chaos of musical creativity into a cohesive, tangible thing, like what Miller did with SF, Exile etc...
Or even what Jordan does with Keith....I always found myself loving Keith's solo albums more than latter day Stones because Jordan has a way of directing Keith's ramshackleness iinto something solid without losing its feel.
Was doesn't do that, IMO. He just seems to just let them be.
The Glimmer Twins have always needed someone to kick them in the ass, even when they resisted. And great producers know how to kick an artist in the ass without the artist realizing it.



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 01:31 by stupidguy2.

I think the Glimmers see themselves (rightfully so) as having been to the mountaintop. It's a been there, done that attitude. I don't think it matters who is producing. The buck really does stop with them.

Quote
Rocky Dijon

Quote
stupidguy2
[The Stones' sound has lost its roughness, that's been a fact since the 80s....and who is at the controls? Was, unless Im mistaken. I haven't seen any other name in the production credits in decades.

Was started out doing a dance remix for them in 1989, then he mixed a live track in 1992. He didn't become their producer until VOODOO LOUNGE which was released in 1994. The music you dislike in the eighties was produced by Chris Kimsey with the exception of DIRTY WORK which was produced by Steve Lillywhite.
Since Kimsey gets the blame for UNDERCOVER and STEEL WHEELS, it might be worth noting he should likewise get the credit for SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE, and TATTOO YOU. What does all this point to? That Jagger and Richards deserve the credit or the blame for what works and what doesn't and not the guy turning the knobs and moving the faders. If Jimmy Miller was alive today and just as a great and successful a producer as he was in his prime, they would either not work with him or not listen to him if he told them to try harder. They are oo old and too rich and too proud to listen to criticism and they prefer to surround themselves with familiar faces who don't need to be broken in. It's true of producers as much as sidemen. Their choice. The buck stops with them.

I agree, but it makes me wonder, why do they even have a producer, what purpose does Was serve? If it all comes down to the Glimmers, what does Don actually do?

It comes down to the Glimmers because they write the songs and call the shots, but they need a buffer between them partly because its difficult to be on both sides of the glass and partly to help smooth the waters between the two of them. Don has succeeded because he has both of them convinced he has their best interests at heart. Steve Lillywhite failed and didn't get a second chance because he was perceived as being in Keith's court. Additionally when the Stones moved from Atlantic to Columbia, I believe an outside producer was a contractual requirement along with minimum number of singles and music videos per album. It is understandable for labels to demand commercially successful artists (even living legends) work with producers with a proven track record with hit albums and Grammy's to their credit. They want a return on their investment. I think Don has produced a wide variety of styles with them. The rockers do not all sound the same and the mixing from one album to the next varies greatly (usually engineers are switched out regularly the past 15 years or so). Does he play it safe, sure. It's the only way to keep his job. I don't think Don saved any songs and I don't think any of them tanked because of him. VOODOO and BRIDGES are both very strong in my opinion. The quality has dropped since then, but I don't blame the producer. If Don told them that, he'd be replaced in an instant. Diplomacy is key with those two, a point Ronnie has also made as have Chuck and Bernard to a lesser extent.

Quote
stupidguy2

Quote
Gazza
If Was is the wrong guy, then its Jagger and Richards' fault as his employer and for being stuck in a comfort zone.

Why does it seem like Was has been around the Stones forever?

Probably because the band are so creatively lazy that whilst theyve only made two and a half studio albums with him as a co-producer, its taken them going on two decades to accumulate that prolific output.

Quote

He's pissing himself in the control room kissing the ground they walk on, tingling with rapture and awe of producing the Stones.

Seriously - how do you KNOW this to be true? He's produced other artists of similar greatness to the Stones. Why, 30-odd years into his career, would an experienced and respected producer be expected to still be slobbering over them like a pubescent girl?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 05:53 by Gazza.

Quote
Rip This
I think the Glimmers see themselves (rightfully so) as having been to the mountaintop. It's a been there, done that attitude. I don't think it matters who is producing. The buck really does stop with them.

Correct. And the notion that any producer in 2011 could take them by the scruff of the neck and boot them up the arse without them realising it, as suggested above, is unlikely at this stage. Different ballgame since Jimmy Miller's era.

Quote
Gazza
.....He's produced other artists of similar greatness to the Stones. Why, 30-odd years into his career, would an experienced and respected producer be expected to still be slobbering over them like a pubescent girl?

Yeah, that's my question.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
It comes down to the Glimmers because they write the songs and call the shots, but they need a buffer between them partly because its difficult to be on both sides of the glass and partly to help smooth the waters between the two of them. Don has succeeded because he has both of them convinced he has their best interests at heart. Steve Lillywhite failed and didn't get a second chance because he was perceived as being in Keith's court. Additionally when the Stones moved from Atlantic to Columbia, I believe an outside producer was a contractual requirement along with minimum number of singles and music videos per album. It is understandable for labels to demand commercially successful artists (even living legends) work with producers with a proven track record with hit albums and Grammy's to their credit. They want a return on their investment. I think Don has produced a wide variety of styles with them. The rockers do not all sound the same and the mixing from one album to the next varies greatly (usually engineers are switched out regularly the past 15 years or so). Does he play it safe, sure. It's the only way to keep his job. I don't think Don saved any songs and I don't think any of them tanked because of him. VOODOO and BRIDGES are both very strong in my opinion. The quality has dropped since then, but I don't blame the producer. If Don told them that, he'd be replaced in an instant. Diplomacy is key with those two, a point Ronnie has also made as have Chuck and Bernard to a lesser extent.

So he's a sycophantic camp counselor, referee, and board op, but not a producer.

Nice.

Quote
stupidguy2
The Glimmer Twins have always needed someone to kick them in the ass, even when they resisted. And great producers know how to kick an artist in the ass without the artist realizing it.

One could even argue that Andrew Loog Oldham was actually their most important producer ever. Didn't know a shit about making a record technically but the decision to metaphorically (Keith: literally) lock Mick and Keith into kitchen, and not letting out until some stuff is done, that's the language to make something out of those two guys. The great Rolling Stones record starts always from the kitchen - from the songwriting.

It is funny to think that neither Mick or Keith never thought about making songs before Andrew "suggested" that. That is totally different with folks like Lennon, McCartney or Dylan - who all seem to be driven by 'inner' muse. Maybe that tells something of their creative pulse so to say. They need someone to kick them. It doesn't come inside. Perhaps this still should explain many of their actions (and non-actions).

Anyway, if we look the producing history of theirs, we seem to have some tendencies there. Let's scratch it briefly. Without having any technical abilities Andrew seemed to have a right nose to direct the band in the early days. ALO undertood the style, the coolness, the nature or feeling of their records - and forced/convinced the guys to follw his visions - which was enough by day's conditions. But by 1966/67 ALO's technical and musical unprofessionaliship - he was basically an amateur wanna-be producer -started to show its ugly head, and the band (Mick and KEith) thought that tehy are big boys now, and can handle all of it by themselves. The result was THEIR SATANIC MAJESTIES. Okay, what perhaps was the most important thing with that "experiment" was realizing that they need a competent producer (the brains, the ear, the director to keep it all in hand and in schedule). Seemingly they were so young, and ambitious and brave enough at the time that it was not the question of egos (yet) but that of making as brilliant musical as possible - to develop them and their music. They chose a guy who knew his shit (as they a year later chose a guy to play teh guitar that could guitarwise blew anything Keith or Brian ever did.) Mick and Keith were wise enough - and not having too big egos yet - to actually listen the guy. We all know the following results.

Anyway, the golden years of Miller were passed by 1973, and once again, the big boys thought that they know everything now, and can lead the ship just by themselves. The result - IT'S ONLY ROCK'N*ROLL and BLACK&BLUE - were the least convincing albums since SATANIC MAJESTIES, and probably the bell was ringing again, "Houston, we have a problem" (one could even say that even though those two albums have all potentiality needed to convincing results - enough good songs, great musicianhip, etc - for some reason they don't come up right; the results sound lazy. Maybe a badass producer with a vision and a discipline might have helped there? Who knows). Okay, by then Mick and Keith were omnipotent record makers from the kitchen to PR work, so it was not possible to anyone really "guide" them any longer. So the days of "co-producers" started. Anyway, SOME GIRLS was for the 70's what BEGGARS BANQUET was for the 60's, and in both album there was a new guy behind the desk. The ego fight of Mick and Keith destroyed EMOTIONAL RESCUE, but without having the ego-problem in a way, TATTOO YOU is one of the greatest achivements producerwise in Stones history. A true gem. They took the bulk of the material from the era that was represented with rather 'failed' albums (GHS, B&B, ER), but with a bright ear one could notice the song material being quite strong - it just needed to be caked differently, with a focus and a vision. Of course, we should especially thank Jagger here, but I think we should not under-estimate the significance of "co-producer" to kick Mick's ass.

Then, the 80's happened, and a brand new set of rules was settled... If Mick and Keith seemed to losing the touch, Chris Kimsey did as as well. Producerwise the results just got worse - UNDERCOVER, DIRTY WORK, STEEL WHEELS - terrible experiments to cope with the times. It was clear they needed a new man. For reason or other Don Was the chosen one. He is a Stone nostalgic, a fan boy, who knows the ecellence of EXILE, SOME GIRLS, and seemingly has a suitable vision of what made those records so great: Mick and Keith collaoration, and less one "disturbs" it, guides them, correcs them, better it is.... VOODOO LOUNGE was a retro album. What amazes me is Mick's complaints of its nature - like he didn't have responsibilty for its "retroness"??? That's odd. Sounds like Don Was actually was a tough boss there, and Mick didn't have even a veto there... Can it be true? My hint is that Mick simply bulsshits there. For reason or other he was not satisfied with the album, so he finds someone else to blame. Blame it bloody producer, then... I guess when they hired Was, they knew what they are going to get. Remeber, Jagger had just had his difficult experiences with a challenging producer (Rubin), so I suppose that was a kind of situation he wanted to avoid. (and like mentioned here: think of the guy with the blade...) Anyway, for BRIDGES TO BABYLON they decided to split the co-producership, and we got totally incoherent album (with some best individual modern era Stones songs), but A BIGGER BANG was VOODOO LOUNGE vol.2, only to be done with less energy and effort wasted, demo-like from pieces. Don Was had a first-row seat to wittness how Mick and Keith "worked" together. For a true retro-project EXILE Was was the man exactly needed, and I hope we will hear SOME GIRLS-product soon.

In a long run, I can see some tendencies there: once upon time ago, Mick and Keith realized that they need support if they are going to cope with the time and make convincing records. They probably also knew that they needed someone to kick their ass in order to not get themselves into a mess like SATANIC MAJESTIES. I think the reason to pick up Chris Kimsey in 1977 was also making same kind of conclusion. They needed fresh ideas and vision from an outsider to breath some fresh air to their records. Quite difficult to estimate what they were thinking with Don Was though. Maybe it was a kind of compromise solution: let's just go to a nostalgy market, and get a guy who has an idea or vision what made the band great once upon time ago. Probably also knowing that he is not going to kick their ass because that is not really needed anymore.

I think all these go somehow hand in hand: ALO was like Brian Jones - gave Mick and Keith ideas, and challenge them. Jimmy Miller was like Mick Taylor - a total pro, full of muscianhip and technical ability and ideas to challenge them. Chris Kimsey was like Ron Wood - gave them new fresh air, and some new conviction. Don Was is like ChucK Leavell - a helping hand that makes all easy and comfortable, and is enough "yes-man" to no challenge them but let them just to enjoy their - well deserved - comfort zone.

- Doxa



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 11:12 by Doxa.

Doxa, really good stuff; but there is something not quite kosher about that recording. It's too clean for 78 live, and I hear too many guitars.

They need to get back with Andrew Loog Oldham!

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Doxa, really good stuff; but there is something not quite kosher about that recording. It's too clean for 78 live, and I hear too many guitars.

Thanks. But I don't quite follow you here. Do you mean A BIGGER BANG, VOODOO LOUNGE or probably EXILe or the possible SOME GIRLS project?

My take is that as far as the nostalgy is the business, Don Was might be the best guy there is. He respects the past and has a vision of it. I don't know other alternatives really. Now I am thinking especially the forecoming (?) SOME GIRLS project.

Okay, I know that some production ideas of EXILE bonus album hurt some ears here, but I think we need to face the reality. It is not 1971 any longer. Doing a nostalgic gig to the early 70's with the technology of 21th century is not the same thing as trying to do 100% best out of the current possibilities available in 1971. Totally different game.

I think producing over-all is a tough job actually. To me it sounds like the producers are more the children of their hey-day than the recording artists themselves. They really need to grasp the technology of the day and mix it with the artistic drive. If you were the best guy in 1964 would not mean that you were that in 1971 - just think of Phil Spector. And if ýou were that in 1971 you might not be that in 1979 (think of Jimmy Miller). I think Chris Kimsey was a typical late 70's-early 80's guy whose era was totally disappeared by the mid-80's.

I think this is the 'historicist' context of producer's reality we need to notice when we are talking about producing records. It is not that if we now take Chris Kimsey onboard and we will then have SOME GIRLS-sounding album on horizon. No more likely to happen than taking ALO back onboard and we will have another "Satisfaction" to come. It is a different world now.

So to me its sounds like Don Was is almost optimal guy to retro-projecs because he seems to "like" that kind of things - he compromises the recent technological possibilities, sound worlds and artistic ideas with the past (not to mention can able to cope with certain egos). His ambition seems to be there. That is not the case with people like Rick Rubin I guess. Maybe there might be some 'better' guys somewhere - but The Stones are not interest to make any radical changes any longer, as we know.

Seriously, would "Plundering My Soul" sounded any better with some other producer? I think, also in procuderwise, that is the best thing I have heard since TATTOO YOU. Surely, Was will not challenge them to do any interesting new music, but can we really think anyone could now?

- Doxa



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 14:51 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa
Don Was:

What started to dawn on me is how a five-piece rock and roll band is in many ways identical to a basketball team. That’s true of the Stones, especially, where you’ve got a center, and two forwards playing guitar, and guards on bass and drums. The Stones are like the Detroit Pistons, who are such a superb team. It’s a joy to watch the Pistons play, because of the interplay that goes on between them. It’s as if you reach a near-utopian condition, or a rare moment when men cooperate because they know it’s in their best interest as a group, and as individuals, to work together. The Pistons are always passing the ball, and they’re extremely generous with one another. The same thing is true of the Stones, when they’re at their best.

This is Fort Worth, right? I've never heard that source, though - with Jagger that low in the mix.

Don is bullshitting - "lip service" - in regards to A BIGGER BANG - there was none of five-piece chemistry left there in those sessions (there probaly weren't even five musicians at the studio together once), but this is what he is actually referring to:





"Beast of Burden" happens to be the song Dressmann uses in their telly-ads this week, and for that reason I checked some cool youtube-versions of it. The one above is maybe one of the greatest captured Stones six and half minutes ever. The "ancinet art of weaving" is in total fire there - the 'sraightest rhythm section of the world" as solid as ever but swinging like a hell, and Jagger's isnpired frontmanship.... Can it be any better?

- Doxa

This is Fort Worth, right? I've never heard that source, though - with Jagger that low in the mix.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 14:52 by DandelionPowderman.

Quote
stupidguy2

Quote
Gazza
.....He's produced other artists of similar greatness to the Stones. Why, 30-odd years into his career, would an experienced and respected producer be expected to still be slobbering over them like a pubescent girl?

Yeah, that's my question.

..and mine (which you edited out of the above quote) is that, unless you have witnessed it personally, how do you know that this is the case?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 14:34 by Gazza.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Doxa, really good stuff; but there is something not quite kosher about that recording. It's too clean for 78 live, and I hear too many guitars.

Thanks. But I don't quite follow you here. Do you mean A BIGGER BANG, VOODOO LOUNGE or probably EXILe or the possible SOME GIRLS project?

My take is that as far as the nostalgy is the business, Don Was might be the best guy there is. He respects the past and has a vision of it. I don't know other alternatives really. Now I am thinking especially the forecoming (?) SOME GIRLS project.

Okay, I know that some production ideas of EXILE bonus album hurt some ears here, but I think we need to face the reality. It is not 1971 any longer. Doing a nostalgic gig to the early 70's with the technology of 21th century is not the same thing as trying to do 100% best out of the current possibilities available in 1971. Totally different game.

I think producing over-all is a tough job actually. To me it sounds like the producers are more the children of their hey-day than the recording artists themselves. They really need to grasp the technology of the day and mix it with the artistic drive. If you were the best guy in 1964 would not mean that you were that in 1971 - just think of Phil Spector. And if ýou were that in 1971 you might not be that in 1979 (think of Jimmy Miller). I think Chris Kimsey was a typical late 70's-early 80's guy whose era was totally disappeared by the mid-80's.

I think this is the 'historicist' context of producer's reality we need to notice when we are talking about producing records. It is not that if we now take Chris Kimsey onboard and we will then have SOME GIRLS-sounding album on horizon. No more likely to happen than taking ALO back onboard and we will have another "Satisfaction" to come. It is a different world now.

So to me its sounds like Don Was is almost optimal guy to retro-projecs because he seems to "like" that kind of things - he compromises the recent technological possibilities, sound worlds and artistic ideas with the past (not to mention can able to cope with certain egos). His ambition seems to be there. That is not the case with people like Rick Rubin I guess. Maybe there might be some 'better' guys somewhere - but The Stones are not interest to make any radical changes any longer, as we know.

Seriously, would "Plundering My Soul" sounded any better with some other producer? I think, also in procuderwise, that is the best thing I have heard since TATTOO YOU. Surely, Was will not challenge them to do any interesting new music, but can we really think anyone could now?

- Doxa

What I meant is that it doesn't sound like strictly live 78 Stones in this recording. To me.

This is the sound we want.

George Drakoulias could be the right producer.

You can't love it. Chuck Leavell plays on it and he's also the target of disgruntled Stones fans.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-05 21:32 by Rocky Dijon.

Ha ha! That's funny Rocky!

Quote
Rocky Dijon
You can't love it. Chuck Leavell plays on it and he's also the target of disgruntled Stones fans.

Oh no, not Chuck again
On this song is not so bad!

Quote
KRiffhard





This is the sound we want.

George Drakoulias could be the right producer.

I've never been crazy about the sound of that record. I always thought it was too modern and digital. Even though it may very well be analog, it came out when I started really noticing how bad records were starting to sound. They started sounding too generic and slick. Kind of harsh, and had lost the warmth they use to have.

I always thought this album, like many in the digital age, sounded like everything was just stacked on top of each other, instead of really meshing together. The guitars are too thin and trebly, and the snare is that awful, snappy sound that's placed too out in front of everything else. It's all I hear, and I don't like it. The rest is just the typical late 80's/early 90's attempt at 70's retro.

I like the sound of their next record, the Southern Harmony one, much, much better. Everything seems to gel, and mesh together, instead of souning like it's all just thrown on top of each other. And the guitars have a much beefier, Hard Rock distortion, but not too much. They, and everything else, aren't so generic sounding.

Quote
bustedtrousers

Quote
KRiffhard





This is the sound we want.

George Drakoulias could be the right producer.

I've never been crazy about the sound of that record. I always thought it was too modern and digital. Even though it may very well be analog, it came out when I started really noticing how bad records were starting to sound. They started sounding too generic and slick. Kind of harsh, and had lost the warmth they use to have.

I always thought this album, like many in the digital age, sounded like everything was just stacked on top of each other, instead of really meshing together. The guitars are too thin and trebly, and the snare is that awful, snappy sound that's placed too out in front of everything else. It's all I hear, and I don't like it. The rest is just the typical late 80's/early 90's attempt at 70's retro.

I like the sound of their next record, the Southern Harmony one, much, much better. Everything seems to gel, and mesh together, instead of souning like it's all just thrown on top of each other. And the guitars have a much beefier, Hard Rock distortion, but not too much. They, and everything else, aren't so generic sounding.

...even 'Southern Armony' is produced by George Drakoulias.

Don Was did a nice job on Voodoo Lounge and that was all they needed him for - He's been a detriment since.

I thought Southern Harmony sounded much better than Money Maker.

Quote
KRiffhard

Quote
bustedtrousers

Quote
KRiffhard





This is the sound we want.

George Drakoulias could be the right producer.

I've never been crazy about the sound of that record. I always thought it was too modern and digital. Even though it may very well be analog, it came out when I started really noticing how bad records were starting to sound. They started sounding too generic and slick. Kind of harsh, and had lost the warmth they use to have.

I always thought this album, like many in the digital age, sounded like everything was just stacked on top of each other, instead of really meshing together. The guitars are too thin and trebly, and the snare is that awful, snappy sound that's placed too out in front of everything else. It's all I hear, and I don't like it. The rest is just the typical late 80's/early 90's attempt at 70's retro.

I like the sound of their next record, the Southern Harmony one, much, much better. Everything seems to gel, and mesh together, instead of souning like it's all just thrown on top of each other. And the guitars have a much beefier, Hard Rock distortion, but not too much. They, and everything else, aren't so generic sounding.

...even 'Southern Armony' is produced by George Drakoulias.

That's fine. I see your point, and it is worth pointing it out. But I didn't say anything against the producer specifically. I wasn't even thinking about that, I was thinking more about the industry and changing technology being the problem. The fact that I like the sound of one record, and not the other, obviously isn't entirely because of the producer.