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I bet you if this "new" Exile disc would have been a bootleg out of the blue instead of an official release, folks would be raving about it for ages.
There have been wonderful contributions in this thread already which show that with The Stones - unlike with Dylan or Springsteen - it is not to possible to "please their hard core fans", expect by finishing up outtakes heavily in the studio, since the working method of The Stones has not been wasting energy to probable left-overs. There simply aren't many 'ready to released songs' in their vaults I guess. During a certain stage, the band has chosen the songs into record, and then concentrated solely finishing them, while left the rest to vaults unfinished. It is also much to to do with the time-consuming way to record: especially during the 'golden period' the songs were strongly studio-efforts; much of them were developed little by little from certain ideas. By contrast, Dylan's way was/is a total opposite: he usually had the complete songs finished when he hit the studio, and recorded them as quickly as possible. Therefore his vaults are full of finished-sounding tracks. I guess it is more or less the same with other singer-song writers (Springsteen, Young, etc.). Mick and Keith's compositions are not that kind of troubador stuff...
If I have understood right, The Stones typically record lastly the vocal parts with finished melody lines and lyrics. So most of the stuff that is circulating has that last important touch missing in them. Funny, Keith once described TATTOO YOU and Mick's heavily involvement in it, that "only Mick's job was missing from them, so he basically just did his part". Mick also said of EXILE EXTRAS that he did them the same kind of thing he always does, no matter how old the backing track is. I think the hostility towards releasing stuff that isn't finished at all, or is still lacking some essential feature, is very understable. Any artist recognizes this.
So I think the only method to "open the vaults", as far as unreleased studio stuff goes, is the one we had with EXILE. It is probably the only option they have.
- Doxa
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-21 17:38 by Doxa.
In fairness, its worth mentioning that Springsteen's recent 2-Cd "The Promise" also contains a sizeable amount of 'new' vocal overdubs. The songs from those 1977-78 sessions that were released on 'Tracks' in 1998 were largely untouched. but some of the 22 songs released on 'The Promise' needed to be finished.
Because ALL of Jagger's solo efforts except Wandering Spirit with Rick Rubin, are awfull.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-21 22:34 by Mathijs.
ITS TRUE ! though i would go even further back to 1981.
PMS has the most wonderful open g guitar chords vibe since Before they make me run and then start me up (which in itself was a rebirth)
the Am7 G feel of the song is great and the line i thought you wanted my money but you plundered my soul is an instant classic
Give med Sad sad sad, Almost hear you sigh, I go wild, Sparks will fly, The worst, Love is strong, Rough justice, Out of control, Saint of me, Too tight and lots more to Plundered my soul, anyday! I do not say that it's all bad, but it's a leftover and I can see why.....
I don't agree, although I definetely prefer Jagger with The Stones. And to me that is two totally different thing. Jaggers work with the Stones is often bashed here, but I think his contribution with the band is just as important as Keiths. The thing is, if you want dynamite music both Keith and Mick has to be present. Either one of them alone is not as good. But if you don't like Micks work with The Stones, just listen to Keiths records. ;-)
if the track originates from the 80s , why put it on exile unless he was already recording solo tracks in 1972 and keeping them for later ...... was he ?
I think you are right, Doxa, and I cosider the handling of the exile-bonusses very satisfactory. I miss the announced Scarlet though, but hope that it might occur on the GHS-deluxe, which I really look forward to. And of course I hope they will also include the tracks that already are heavily bootlegged - and the Brussels affair. Or boxsets with the best concerts from '72 and '73. I hope that will be the project following the SG-deluxe.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-24 17:49 by GetYerAngie.
As Doxa mentions, I don't think it is an '80's solo track, but a 2009 Jagger solo track. I can believe the piano was there, and it could be Jimmy Miller on drums, even though the drums sound very modern. I think all the rest is done in 2009, hence a total Jagger solo track. No involvement from anybody else here.
Mathijs
Good comments...I especially like the first part, where they could have put some things out from the actual sessions. It would have been great to hear some studio chatter, and be brought into the room at Nellcote (or Sunset Sound).
Well done, Rev. Robert W.! I'd add an Aladdin Story too
Absolutely. Nothing better on Voodoo, Bridges or other albums since then. Nothing with anything close to the feel PMS has. Nothing better on Dirty Work or Undercover either, for my money.
thanks for the explanation about following the river.
"Pass the Wine" : it is the only track where we can hear the guide vocal coming through so it is most likely that a lot of the intrumental track would be original and rough lyrics already in existance.
...Rocky, more info please!!
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Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
kees
()
Date: January 21, 2011 15:55
\I think it is a bad joke to add new lyrics and/or guitars to outtakes from the vault. And than to keep foggy what has really been done in the studio.
Better had not released these EOM vaults is my opinion.
Luckily there are Bruce and Dylan who really know how to please their hard core fans.
Better had not released these EOM vaults is my opinion.
Luckily there are Bruce and Dylan who really know how to please their hard core fans.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
Handova
()
Date: January 21, 2011 15:57
Quote
ghostryder13
no matter what the stones would of put on the re-release of exile, there would be people complaining about it. i'm thankful for what was given to us, seems to me that the complainers were expecting an exile part 2
I bet you if this "new" Exile disc would have been a bootleg out of the blue instead of an official release, folks would be raving about it for ages.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 21, 2011 17:27
Quote
kees
\I think it is a bad joke to add new lyrics and/or guitars to outtakes from the vault. And than to keep foggy what has really been done in the studio.
Better had not released these EOM vaults is my opinion.
Luckily there are Bruce and Dylan who really know how to please their hard core fans.
There have been wonderful contributions in this thread already which show that with The Stones - unlike with Dylan or Springsteen - it is not to possible to "please their hard core fans", expect by finishing up outtakes heavily in the studio, since the working method of The Stones has not been wasting energy to probable left-overs. There simply aren't many 'ready to released songs' in their vaults I guess. During a certain stage, the band has chosen the songs into record, and then concentrated solely finishing them, while left the rest to vaults unfinished. It is also much to to do with the time-consuming way to record: especially during the 'golden period' the songs were strongly studio-efforts; much of them were developed little by little from certain ideas. By contrast, Dylan's way was/is a total opposite: he usually had the complete songs finished when he hit the studio, and recorded them as quickly as possible. Therefore his vaults are full of finished-sounding tracks. I guess it is more or less the same with other singer-song writers (Springsteen, Young, etc.). Mick and Keith's compositions are not that kind of troubador stuff...
If I have understood right, The Stones typically record lastly the vocal parts with finished melody lines and lyrics. So most of the stuff that is circulating has that last important touch missing in them. Funny, Keith once described TATTOO YOU and Mick's heavily involvement in it, that "only Mick's job was missing from them, so he basically just did his part". Mick also said of EXILE EXTRAS that he did them the same kind of thing he always does, no matter how old the backing track is. I think the hostility towards releasing stuff that isn't finished at all, or is still lacking some essential feature, is very understable. Any artist recognizes this.
So I think the only method to "open the vaults", as far as unreleased studio stuff goes, is the one we had with EXILE. It is probably the only option they have.
- Doxa
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-21 17:38 by Doxa.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: January 21, 2011 17:36
Quote
kees
\I think it is a bad joke to add new lyrics and/or guitars to outtakes from the vault. And than to keep foggy what has really been done in the studio.
Better had not released these EOM vaults is my opinion.
Luckily there are Bruce and Dylan who really know how to please their hard core fans.
In fairness, its worth mentioning that Springsteen's recent 2-Cd "The Promise" also contains a sizeable amount of 'new' vocal overdubs. The songs from those 1977-78 sessions that were released on 'Tracks' in 1998 were largely untouched. but some of the 22 songs released on 'The Promise' needed to be finished.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 21, 2011 17:49
Quote
Rockman
Hey Hey HM never explain and no need ta apologize .... Have a drink and kick the door.....
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
ghostryder13
()
Date: January 21, 2011 20:10
dammed if they do and dammed if they don't
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 21, 2011 21:36
Quote
NedKellyQuote
Mathijs
Well, we got one track which was most probably an edit from a 20 minute jam and turned out to be the best track since Start Me Up -Plundered My Soul (the single version that is). We got one track that was from '66, Title 5. One track that is a Jagger solo track, and hence godawful -Following the River. Soul Survivor is a nice view on what the cook is cooking. The rest? Worked up outtakes that are what they are: worked up outtakes.
Mathijs
Why is Jaggers work referred to as awful just because it's his work? Would you rather leave Mick out of it all? I don't get it.
Because ALL of Jagger's solo efforts except Wandering Spirit with Rick Rubin, are awfull.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-21 22:34 by Mathijs.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
straycatblues73
()
Date: January 22, 2011 16:56
Quote
NedKellyQuote
71Tele
Some were admittedly weak, but I don't know for sure if Travellin' Man or Hillside Blues came from the exile period. It was all worth it however, because we got Plundered My Soul, which was the best "new" Stones track in a quarter-century, imo.
You really think Plundered my soul is the best Stones song since 1985? Really nothing better on Voodoo, Bridges, or the other albums since then? Increadible....
ITS TRUE ! though i would go even further back to 1981.
PMS has the most wonderful open g guitar chords vibe since Before they make me run and then start me up (which in itself was a rebirth)
the Am7 G feel of the song is great and the line i thought you wanted my money but you plundered my soul is an instant classic
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
NedKelly
()
Date: January 24, 2011 14:55
Quote
straycatblues73Quote
NedKellyQuote
71Tele
Some were admittedly weak, but I don't know for sure if Travellin' Man or Hillside Blues came from the exile period. It was all worth it however, because we got Plundered My Soul, which was the best "new" Stones track in a quarter-century, imo.
You really think Plundered my soul is the best Stones song since 1985? Really nothing better on Voodoo, Bridges, or the other albums since then? Increadible....
ITS TRUE ! though i would go even further back to 1981.
PMS has the most wonderful open g guitar chords vibe since Before they make me run and then start me up (which in itself was a rebirth)
the Am7 G feel of the song is great and the line i thought you wanted my money but you plundered my soul is an instant classic
Give med Sad sad sad, Almost hear you sigh, I go wild, Sparks will fly, The worst, Love is strong, Rough justice, Out of control, Saint of me, Too tight and lots more to Plundered my soul, anyday! I do not say that it's all bad, but it's a leftover and I can see why.....
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
NedKelly
()
Date: January 24, 2011 14:59
Quote
MathijsQuote
NedKellyQuote
Mathijs
Well, we got one track which was most probably an edit from a 20 minute jam and turned out to be the best track since Start Me Up -Plundered My Soul (the single version that is). We got one track that was from '66, Title 5. One track that is a Jagger solo track, and hence godawful -Following the River. Soul Survivor is a nice view on what the cook is cooking. The rest? Worked up outtakes that are what they are: worked up outtakes.
Mathijs
Why is Jaggers work referred to as awful just because it's his work? Would you rather leave Mick out of it all? I don't get it.
Because ALL of Jagger's solo efforts except Wandering Spirit with Rick Rubin, are awfull.
Mathijs
I don't agree, although I definetely prefer Jagger with The Stones. And to me that is two totally different thing. Jaggers work with the Stones is often bashed here, but I think his contribution with the band is just as important as Keiths. The thing is, if you want dynamite music both Keith and Mick has to be present. Either one of them alone is not as good. But if you don't like Micks work with The Stones, just listen to Keiths records. ;-)
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
straycatblues73
()
Date: January 24, 2011 16:54
Quote
NedKellyQuote
Mathijs
Well, we got one track which was most probably an edit from a 20 minute jam and turned out to be the best track since Start Me Up -Plundered My Soul (the single version that is). We got one track that was from '66, Title 5. One track that is a Jagger solo track, and hence godawful -Following the River. Soul Survivor is a nice view on what the cook is cooking. The rest? Worked up outtakes that are what they are: worked up outtakes.
Mathijs
Why is Jaggers work referred to as awful just because it's his work? Would you rather leave Mick out of it all? I don't get it.
if the track originates from the 80s , why put it on exile unless he was already recording solo tracks in 1972 and keeping them for later ...... was he ?
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
GetYerAngie
()
Date: January 24, 2011 17:46
Quote
DoxaQuote
kees
\I think it is a bad joke to add new lyrics and/or guitars to outtakes from the vault. And than to keep foggy what has really been done in the studio.
Better had not released these EOM vaults is my opinion.
Luckily there are Bruce and Dylan who really know how to please their hard core fans.
There have been wonderful contributions in this thread already which show that with The Stones - unlike with Dylan or Springsteen - it is not to possible to "please their hard core fans", expect by finishing up outtakes heavily in the studio, since the working method of The Stones has not been wasting energy to probable left-overs. There simply aren't many 'ready to released songs' in their vaults I guess. During a certain stage, the band has chosen the songs into record, and then concentrated solely finishing them, while left the rest to vaults unfinished. It is also much to to do with the time-consuming way to record: especially during the 'golden period' the songs were strongly studio-efforts; much of them were developed little by little from certain ideas. By contrast, Dylan's way was/is a total opposite: he usually had the complete songs finished when he hit the studio, and recorded them as quickly as possible. Therefore his vaults are full of finished-sounding tracks. I guess it is more or less the same with other singer-song writers (Springsteen, Young, etc.). Mick and Keith's compositions are not that kind of troubador stuff...
If I have understood right, The Stones typically record lastly the vocal parts with finished melody lines and lyrics. So most of the stuff that is circulating has that last important touch missing in them. Funny, Keith once described TATTOO YOU and Mick's heavily involvement in it, that "only Mick's job was missing from them, so he basically just did his part". Mick also said of EXILE EXTRAS that he did them the same kind of thing he always does, no matter how old the backing track is. I think the hostility towards releasing stuff that isn't finished at all, or is still lacking some essential feature, is very understable. Any artist recognizes this.
So I think the only method to "open the vaults", as far as unreleased studio stuff goes, is the one we had with EXILE. It is probably the only option they have.
- Doxa
I think you are right, Doxa, and I cosider the handling of the exile-bonusses very satisfactory. I miss the announced Scarlet though, but hope that it might occur on the GHS-deluxe, which I really look forward to. And of course I hope they will also include the tracks that already are heavily bootlegged - and the Brussels affair. Or boxsets with the best concerts from '72 and '73. I hope that will be the project following the SG-deluxe.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-24 17:49 by GetYerAngie.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 24, 2011 18:36
Unless I'm mistaken, the Some Girls deluxe project is just speculation. Nothing else has been confirmed. I'm sure "Scarlet" and other tracks will have an official release at some point, but there's no guarantee of when or in what form.
As for what Mathijs meant by calling "Following the River" a Jagger solo tune, I think I understand and agree with him. No one said it was from the eighties. I presume the outtake was little more than Nicky's piano (possibly the only thing that existed). Rather than call it a Nicky Hopkins composition that they owned the copyright to, Jagger refashioned it as a "Jagger/Richards" (despite the credit, none of us knows how the percentage is split if it is indeed 50% of everything). Mick wrote the lyrics and recorded the vocal in 2009. He added Lisa and Cindy as back-up singers (Cindy's first turn since 1990) and David Campbell (who arranged strings on "Out of Tears") was brought back into the fold as well. I could believe it is not Charlie or Bill or Keith anywhere on the track. Matt Clifford was involved in some fashion in facilitating the recording. We have no idea what his level involvement was or how much of this was Pro Tools. The fact that Krish Sharma was again engineering the 2009 retouches makes some Pro Tools a given.
"Plundered My Soul" definitely has 2009 lyrics and vocals. Mick Taylor added lead guitar in January 2010. I believe both Keith and Mick Jagger also added guitar parts. What exactly remained of the original track we may never know unless the outtake is booted.
"Pass the Wine" was the long-rumored "Sophia Loren" track that few people had ever heard since it was never bootlegged. How much of the original track is left I don't know. Obviously the lyrics and vocals were all new and the same with the harmonica. Not sure about the guitars or percussion. I would guess there was some overdubbing but unless someone like James Karnbach confirms it, we probably won't know for sure. To be honest, the horns sound nothing like the STICKY FINGERS / EXILE period to me despite the credit for Bobby and Jim Price.
"Dancing in the Light" and "So Divine" were familiar bootlegged tracks even though lyrics were reworked or added entirely new and vocals were added in 2009. The overdubs here are obvious particularly Keith's much-maligned guitar solo and the painfully overdubbed percussion on "So Divine" that sounds so amateurish I can't believe it made the grade.
Otherwise, "I'm Not Signifying" just has 2009 Mick harmonica which doesn't bother me too much and I believe "Good Time Women" was only remixed with no actual tampering to the original track. There's a bad edit on "Loving Cup" (bad enough to smell like LIVE LICKS, say hi to Don for us all) and for me "Soul Survivor" with Keith's guide vocal was useless. Had it been a finished lyric by Keith I would have adored it. "Title 5" was little more than a Dick Dale-inspired outro as far as I was concerned. The fact that it was from the mid-sixties didn't register as particularly meaningful under the circumstances. Had they tossed on a more substantial track like "Got Yourself Together" (to use the common bootlegged title) with a vocal then I would have carped about its inclusion seeming anachronistic.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-24 18:40 by Rocky Dijon.
As for what Mathijs meant by calling "Following the River" a Jagger solo tune, I think I understand and agree with him. No one said it was from the eighties. I presume the outtake was little more than Nicky's piano (possibly the only thing that existed). Rather than call it a Nicky Hopkins composition that they owned the copyright to, Jagger refashioned it as a "Jagger/Richards" (despite the credit, none of us knows how the percentage is split if it is indeed 50% of everything). Mick wrote the lyrics and recorded the vocal in 2009. He added Lisa and Cindy as back-up singers (Cindy's first turn since 1990) and David Campbell (who arranged strings on "Out of Tears") was brought back into the fold as well. I could believe it is not Charlie or Bill or Keith anywhere on the track. Matt Clifford was involved in some fashion in facilitating the recording. We have no idea what his level involvement was or how much of this was Pro Tools. The fact that Krish Sharma was again engineering the 2009 retouches makes some Pro Tools a given.
"Plundered My Soul" definitely has 2009 lyrics and vocals. Mick Taylor added lead guitar in January 2010. I believe both Keith and Mick Jagger also added guitar parts. What exactly remained of the original track we may never know unless the outtake is booted.
"Pass the Wine" was the long-rumored "Sophia Loren" track that few people had ever heard since it was never bootlegged. How much of the original track is left I don't know. Obviously the lyrics and vocals were all new and the same with the harmonica. Not sure about the guitars or percussion. I would guess there was some overdubbing but unless someone like James Karnbach confirms it, we probably won't know for sure. To be honest, the horns sound nothing like the STICKY FINGERS / EXILE period to me despite the credit for Bobby and Jim Price.
"Dancing in the Light" and "So Divine" were familiar bootlegged tracks even though lyrics were reworked or added entirely new and vocals were added in 2009. The overdubs here are obvious particularly Keith's much-maligned guitar solo and the painfully overdubbed percussion on "So Divine" that sounds so amateurish I can't believe it made the grade.
Otherwise, "I'm Not Signifying" just has 2009 Mick harmonica which doesn't bother me too much and I believe "Good Time Women" was only remixed with no actual tampering to the original track. There's a bad edit on "Loving Cup" (bad enough to smell like LIVE LICKS, say hi to Don for us all) and for me "Soul Survivor" with Keith's guide vocal was useless. Had it been a finished lyric by Keith I would have adored it. "Title 5" was little more than a Dick Dale-inspired outro as far as I was concerned. The fact that it was from the mid-sixties didn't register as particularly meaningful under the circumstances. Had they tossed on a more substantial track like "Got Yourself Together" (to use the common bootlegged title) with a vocal then I would have carped about its inclusion seeming anachronistic.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-24 18:40 by Rocky Dijon.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 24, 2011 18:43
Quote
straycatblues73Quote
NedKellyQuote
Mathijs
Well, we got one track which was most probably an edit from a 20 minute jam and turned out to be the best track since Start Me Up -Plundered My Soul (the single version that is). We got one track that was from '66, Title 5. One track that is a Jagger solo track, and hence godawful -Following the River. Soul Survivor is a nice view on what the cook is cooking. The rest? Worked up outtakes that are what they are: worked up outtakes.
Mathijs
Why is Jaggers work referred to as awful just because it's his work? Would you rather leave Mick out of it all? I don't get it.
if the track originates from the 80s , why put it on exile unless he was already recording solo tracks in 1972 and keeping them for later ...... was he ?
As Doxa mentions, I don't think it is an '80's solo track, but a 2009 Jagger solo track. I can believe the piano was there, and it could be Jimmy Miller on drums, even though the drums sound very modern. I think all the rest is done in 2009, hence a total Jagger solo track. No involvement from anybody else here.
Mathijs
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 24, 2011 19:00
I was grateful for whatever we got, but it seemed padded out. I don't know why they would put material on it that obviously is not remotely connected to the mood and feel of Exile. Travellin' Man would have been a killer track, and all it needed was a couple of verses and edited down to three or so minutes. The alternate All Down The Line(s) should have been included. Stuff like Following The River and Title 5 had no place on anything called Exile On Main Street. Frankly, Jagger should have kept Taylor in the studio a little longer and they might have come up with an interesting new Stones (or solo Jagger) LP entirely separate from Exile.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: January 24, 2011 22:46
PMS, PTW and IAS are great!
'Following the river' seems a 'Goddes' outtake. Mick's voice is embarassing.
'Following the river' seems a 'Goddes' outtake. Mick's voice is embarassing.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
Rev. Robert W.
()
Date: January 25, 2011 21:37
I guess I can relate to both sides of this discussion. On the one hand, it would have been very satisfying if the Stones had simply combed the vaults for anything pertaining to the songs that eventually made the cut for the 1972 double LP. We could have had mountains of jams, alternates, sketches, studio chatter between Bill Wyman and Jimmy Miller and so on. It would have been a massive, heavy history of what happened: a Stones version of the Stooges' seven disc Complete Fun House Sessions.
And after the thrill of buying it and the pleasure of holding it, the massive box would likely have spent a whole lot of time on our shelves.
Jagger went another way. After taking discarded fragments of the original project, then listening to the released album to "get the vibe," he enlisted Keith and Mick T. and some others to make what winds up being a kind of reflection on the album, a look back on it from the vantage point of the 21st century. Sure, some things work better than others and of course it would have been nice to have more, but I like the second disc as a loose exploration of the phenomenon of Exile, the lore and mythology that surrounds that version of the Stones sound.
"Plundered My Soul" sounds less like an outtake than like a great celebration of the album; "I Ain't Signifyin'" could have been plucked right off the dark'n'dirty third side (for me, the album's heart) and "Title 5," whatever its mysterious origins, has a lean and primitive boogie feel that lives within the big, sloppy R&B styles of so much of Exile.
All in all, a fascinating "new" record that celebrates the original and provokes a fresh listen. Not too shabby, I think...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-25 21:48 by Rev. Robert W..
And after the thrill of buying it and the pleasure of holding it, the massive box would likely have spent a whole lot of time on our shelves.
Jagger went another way. After taking discarded fragments of the original project, then listening to the released album to "get the vibe," he enlisted Keith and Mick T. and some others to make what winds up being a kind of reflection on the album, a look back on it from the vantage point of the 21st century. Sure, some things work better than others and of course it would have been nice to have more, but I like the second disc as a loose exploration of the phenomenon of Exile, the lore and mythology that surrounds that version of the Stones sound.
"Plundered My Soul" sounds less like an outtake than like a great celebration of the album; "I Ain't Signifyin'" could have been plucked right off the dark'n'dirty third side (for me, the album's heart) and "Title 5," whatever its mysterious origins, has a lean and primitive boogie feel that lives within the big, sloppy R&B styles of so much of Exile.
All in all, a fascinating "new" record that celebrates the original and provokes a fresh listen. Not too shabby, I think...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-25 21:48 by Rev. Robert W..
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 25, 2011 21:49
Quote
Rev. Robert W.
I guess I can relate to both sides of this discussion. On the one hand, it would have been very satisfying if the Stones had simply combed the vaults for anything pertaining to the songs that eventually made the cut for the 1972 double LP. We could have had mountains of jams, alternates, sketches, studio chatter between Bill Wyman and Jimmy Miller and so on. It would have been a massive, heavy history of what happened: a Stones version of the Stooges' seven disc Complete Fun House Sessions.
And after the thrill of buying it and the pleasure of holding it, the massive box would likely have spent a whole lot of time on our shelves.
Jagger went another way. After taking discarded fragments of the original project, then listening to the original album to "get the vibe," he enlisted Keith and Mick T. and some others to make what winds up being a kind of reflection on the original album, a look back on it from the vantage point of the 21st century. Sure, some things work better than others and of course it would have been nice to have more, but I like the second disc as a loose exploration of the phenomenon of Exile, the lore and mythology that surrounds that version of the Stones sound.
"Plundered My Soul" sounds less like an outtake than like a great celebration of the album; "I Ain't Signifyin'" could have been plucked right off the dark'n'dirty third side (for me, the album's heart) and "Title 5," whatever its mysterious origins, has a lean and primitive boogie feel that lives within the big, sloppy R&B styles of so much of Exile.
All in all, a fascinating "new" record that celebrates the original and provokes a fresh listen. Not too shabby, I think...
Good comments...I especially like the first part, where they could have put some things out from the actual sessions. It would have been great to hear some studio chatter, and be brought into the room at Nellcote (or Sunset Sound).
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
proudmary
()
Date: January 25, 2011 22:09
Quote
Rev. Robert W.
I guess I can relate to both sides of this discussion. On the one hand, it would have been very satisfying if the Stones had simply combed the vaults for anything pertaining to the songs that eventually made the cut for the 1972 double LP. We could have had mountains of jams, alternates, sketches, studio chatter between Bill Wyman and Jimmy Miller and so on. It would have been a massive, heavy history of what happened: a Stones version of the Stooges' seven disc Complete Fun House Sessions.
And after the thrill of buying it and the pleasure of holding it, the massive box would likely have spent a whole lot of time on our shelves.
Jagger went another way. After taking discarded fragments of the original project, then listening to the released album to "get the vibe," he enlisted Keith and Mick T. and some others to make what winds up being a kind of reflection on the album, a look back on it from the vantage point of the 21st century. Sure, some things work better than others and of course it would have been nice to have more, but I like the second disc as a loose exploration of the phenomenon of Exile, the lore and mythology that surrounds that version of the Stones sound.
"Plundered My Soul" sounds less like an outtake than like a great celebration of the album; "I Ain't Signifyin'" could have been plucked right off the dark'n'dirty third side (for me, the album's heart) and "Title 5," whatever its mysterious origins, has a lean and primitive boogie feel that lives within the big, sloppy R&B styles of so much of Exile.
All in all, a fascinating "new" record that celebrates the original and provokes a fresh listen. Not too shabby, I think...
Well done, Rev. Robert W.! I'd add an Aladdin Story too
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
redsock
()
Date: January 25, 2011 22:32
I would have gladly had half-assed stuff right out of the can, untouched since 1971.
Or give us 2-3 alt takes of some never-booted Exile tracks like Casino Boogie or Rocks Off or the development of Tumbling Dice? Didn't Keith have a vocal take of Rip This Joint? If so, where is that? How about the original Happy run-through with Keith, Jimmy, and Bobby? Would any fan honestly give a shit if that was out of tune or whatever? It's history.
Don Was said he was sent hundreds of hours of tape. So say conservatively that there were 200 hours of stuff. Are they claiming that not even 1/2 of 1% of that would pass muster to go on a 60-minute CD? I say BS.
Putting out a stupendous 2nd disc with Exile should have been the easiest thing in the world. If they truly went through everything, I have no doubt they could have totally blown our minds with a 6-CD box of essential studio stuff -- every damn track a keeper, offering some insight or just plain fun -- that would have had all of our jaws on the floor, drooling and sputtering and unable to properly speak because of our amazement and joy at hearing this band at its peak create some of the greatest rock and roll of all time.
Damn, now I have pissed myself off again. Grrrrrrrrrrr.....
****
I clipped this from a Bruce board. No idea if this is accurate, but it gives a rough idea of what fans think was new on The Promise.
2010 vocals
Gotta Get That Feeling (some new band)
Someday We'll Be Together (mostly new band?)
One Way Street (old band/new horns?)
Because the Night (new band)
Wrong Side of the Street (old band backing track?)
The Brokenhearted (vintage vocal apart from middle bridge and outro; old band, new trumpet and percussion)
Save My Love (new band)
Spanish Eyes (some new band?)
It's a Shame (new guitars?)
The Little Things My Baby Does (some new band?)
Breakaway (some new band?)
Fire (new band and vox?)
1977/8 vocals:
Racing in the Street
Outside Looking In
Ain't Good Enough for You
Come On Let's Go Tonight
Talk to Me
The Promise
The Way
Candy's Boy
City of Night (last verse is inconclusive)
Rendezvous (lyric anomaly inconsistent with other versions from that era?)
Or give us 2-3 alt takes of some never-booted Exile tracks like Casino Boogie or Rocks Off or the development of Tumbling Dice? Didn't Keith have a vocal take of Rip This Joint? If so, where is that? How about the original Happy run-through with Keith, Jimmy, and Bobby? Would any fan honestly give a shit if that was out of tune or whatever? It's history.
Don Was said he was sent hundreds of hours of tape. So say conservatively that there were 200 hours of stuff. Are they claiming that not even 1/2 of 1% of that would pass muster to go on a 60-minute CD? I say BS.
Putting out a stupendous 2nd disc with Exile should have been the easiest thing in the world. If they truly went through everything, I have no doubt they could have totally blown our minds with a 6-CD box of essential studio stuff -- every damn track a keeper, offering some insight or just plain fun -- that would have had all of our jaws on the floor, drooling and sputtering and unable to properly speak because of our amazement and joy at hearing this band at its peak create some of the greatest rock and roll of all time.
Damn, now I have pissed myself off again. Grrrrrrrrrrr.....
****
I clipped this from a Bruce board. No idea if this is accurate, but it gives a rough idea of what fans think was new on The Promise.
2010 vocals
Gotta Get That Feeling (some new band)
Someday We'll Be Together (mostly new band?)
One Way Street (old band/new horns?)
Because the Night (new band)
Wrong Side of the Street (old band backing track?)
The Brokenhearted (vintage vocal apart from middle bridge and outro; old band, new trumpet and percussion)
Save My Love (new band)
Spanish Eyes (some new band?)
It's a Shame (new guitars?)
The Little Things My Baby Does (some new band?)
Breakaway (some new band?)
Fire (new band and vox?)
1977/8 vocals:
Racing in the Street
Outside Looking In
Ain't Good Enough for You
Come On Let's Go Tonight
Talk to Me
The Promise
The Way
Candy's Boy
City of Night (last verse is inconclusive)
Rendezvous (lyric anomaly inconsistent with other versions from that era?)
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: January 25, 2011 22:38
Glad to see you back Rocky! You've summed up Exile Extras from what I can tell and remember when it came out with whatever articles mentioned new vocals, a new vocal with the original vocal on...that song with the horrible Keith guitar maybe? and so on.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 25, 2011 23:06
Thanks, skipstone. It's great to be here. It's great to be anywhere.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 25, 2011 23:15
Quote
NedKellyQuote
71Tele
Some were admittedly weak, but I don't know for sure if Travellin' Man or Hillside Blues came from the exile period. It was all worth it however, because we got Plundered My Soul, which was the best "new" Stones track in a quarter-century, imo.
You really think Plundered my soul is the best Stones song since 1985? Really nothing better on Voodoo, Bridges, or the other albums since then? Increadible....
Absolutely. Nothing better on Voodoo, Bridges or other albums since then. Nothing with anything close to the feel PMS has. Nothing better on Dirty Work or Undercover either, for my money.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
Steen G
()
Date: January 26, 2011 03:37
I'm not signifying is a beauty - especially the ending.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
straycatblues73
()
Date: January 29, 2011 18:54
Quote
Mathijs
As Doxa mentions, I don't think it is an '80's solo track, but a 2009 Jagger solo track. I can believe the piano was there, and it could be Jimmy Miller on drums, even though the drums sound very modern. I think all the rest is done in 2009, hence a total Jagger solo track. No involvement from anybody else here.
Mathijs
Quote
Rocky Dijon
.
As for what Mathijs meant by calling "Following the River" a Jagger solo tune, I think I understand and agree with him. No one said it was from the eighties. I presume the outtake was little more than Nicky's piano (possibly the only thing that existed). Rather than call it a Nicky Hopkins composition that they owned the copyright to, Jagger refashioned it as a "Jagger/Richards" (despite the credit, none of us knows how the percentage is split if it is indeed 50% of everything). Mick wrote the lyrics and recorded the vocal in 2009. He added Lisa and Cindy as back-up singers (Cindy's first turn since 1990) and David Campbell (who arranged strings on "Out of Tears") was brought back into the fold as well. I could believe it is not Charlie or Bill or Keith anywhere on the track. Matt Clifford was involved in some fashion in facilitating the recording. We have no idea what his level involvement was or how much of this was Pro Tools. The fact that Krish Sharma was again engineering the 2009 retouches makes some Pro Tools a given.
"Pass the Wine" was the long-rumored "Sophia Loren" track that few people had ever heard since it was never bootlegged. How much of the original track is left I don't know. Obviously the lyrics and vocals were all new and the same with the harmonica. Not sure about the guitars or percussion. I would guess there was some overdubbing but unless someone like James Karnbach confirms it, we probably won't know for sure. To be honest, the horns sound nothing like the STICKY FINGERS / EXILE period to me despite the credit for Bobby and Jim Price.
.
thanks for the explanation about following the river.
"Pass the Wine" : it is the only track where we can hear the guide vocal coming through so it is most likely that a lot of the intrumental track would be original and rough lyrics already in existance.
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: January 29, 2011 19:14
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Unless I'm mistaken, the Some Girls deluxe project is just speculation. Nothing else has been confirmed. I'm sure "Scarlet" and other tracks will have an official release at some point, but there's no guarantee of when or in what form.
As for what Mathijs meant by calling "Following the River" a Jagger solo tune, I think I understand and agree with him. No one said it was from the eighties. I presume the outtake was little more than Nicky's piano (possibly the only thing that existed). Rather than call it a Nicky Hopkins composition that they owned the copyright to, Jagger refashioned it as a "Jagger/Richards" (despite the credit, none of us knows how the percentage is split if it is indeed 50% of everything). Mick wrote the lyrics and recorded the vocal in 2009. He added Lisa and Cindy as back-up singers (Cindy's first turn since 1990) and David Campbell (who arranged strings on "Out of Tears") was brought back into the fold as well. I could believe it is not Charlie or Bill or Keith anywhere on the track. Matt Clifford was involved in some fashion in facilitating the recording. We have no idea what his level involvement was or how much of this was Pro Tools. The fact that Krish Sharma was again engineering the 2009 retouches makes some Pro Tools a given.
"Plundered My Soul" definitely has 2009 lyrics and vocals. Mick Taylor added lead guitar in January 2010. I believe both Keith and Mick Jagger also added guitar parts. What exactly remained of the original track we may never know unless the outtake is booted.
"Pass the Wine" was the long-rumored "Sophia Loren" track that few people had ever heard since it was never bootlegged. How much of the original track is left I don't know. Obviously the lyrics and vocals were all new and the same with the harmonica. Not sure about the guitars or percussion. I would guess there was some overdubbing but unless someone like James Karnbach confirms it, we probably won't know for sure. To be honest, the horns sound nothing like the STICKY FINGERS / EXILE period to me despite the credit for Bobby and Jim Price.
"Dancing in the Light" and "So Divine" were familiar bootlegged tracks even though lyrics were reworked or added entirely new and vocals were added in 2009. The overdubs here are obvious particularly Keith's much-maligned guitar solo and the painfully overdubbed percussion on "So Divine" that sounds so amateurish I can't believe it made the grade.
Otherwise, "I'm Not Signifying" just has 2009 Mick harmonica which doesn't bother me too much and I believe "Good Time Women" was only remixed with no actual tampering to the original track. There's a bad edit on "Loving Cup" (bad enough to smell like LIVE LICKS, say hi to Don for us all) and for me "Soul Survivor" with Keith's guide vocal was useless. Had it been a finished lyric by Keith I would have adored it. "Title 5" was little more than a Dick Dale-inspired outro as far as I was concerned. The fact that it was from the mid-sixties didn't register as particularly meaningful under the circumstances. Had they tossed on a more substantial track like "Got Yourself Together" (to use the common bootlegged title) with a vocal then I would have carped about its inclusion seeming anachronistic.
...Rocky, more info please!!
Re: What was the "new" Exile outake stuff really?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: January 29, 2011 23:15
It was Teddy that broke the news about "Scarlet," I believe. Don talked about it in interviews leading up to the release as well if I recall correctly.
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