Outtakes that were updated? How many of these were on boots (or known) prior to official release?

Who worked on them? Mostly Mick, but what's the real story? Taylor? Keith? Bill?

Were some of these songs actually new (or at least not from that era)?

Why all the secrecy (and no privacy ....)?

Truth, please.

yes, I found it strange that people seemed to stop short of learning just how much of, for example, "Plundered My Soul" actually originated during the Exile sessions. I wouldn't be surprised if that track was worked up from 30 seconds of jamming.

Much too weak to be REAL EOMS material...

we saw it comming no surprise

we all have the boots, but it was nice to relive EOMS

wah...

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copsnrobbers
we saw it comming no surprise

we all have the boots, but it was nice to relive EOMS

Yeah, I've got some boots, but never heard of several of these "vintage outtakes". Were these the best available songs? Just asking.

"No Anchovies, Please"

>> Were these the best available songs? <<

several of them were pretty good leftovers, yeah!
"the best available" might of course just mean someone crucial went
"i have an immediate idea of what to do with that track, but not this one"

There were some songs left out that were, at least to me, far more superior than some of the ones that were released...Travelin' Man, Hillside Blues, the alternate Shine A Light. And some could have done without any overdub (So Divine...that really bad Keith guitar part and Mick's vocals).

Some were admittedly weak, but I don't know for sure if Travellin' Man or Hillside Blues came from the exile period. It was all worth it however, because we got Plundered My Soul, which was the best "new" Stones track in a quarter-century, imo.

i like what they did with So Divine
as usual, maybe we'd all jettison a track or three from the release,
but all of us would list different tracks to jettison -
and that's one more reason why they are the Rolling Stones and we aren't :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-19 21:30 by with sssoul.

Well, but didn't Mick Jagger said that he considered songs for this from as early as 1969?

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Elmo Lewis
Outtakes that were updated? How many of these were on boots (or known) prior to official release?

Who worked on them? Mostly Mick, but what's the real story? Taylor? Keith? Bill?

Were some of these songs actually new (or at least not from that era)?

Why all the secrecy (and no privacy ....)?

Truth, please.

Mick did most of it (including writing new lyrics for at least one song that didnt have a vocal track). Keith a couple of overdubs, Taylor a guitar overdub on PMS. Bill and Charlie didn't do anything.

There were probably very few, if any, finished songs which were left off.

Consider the era when it was recorded. It WAS a double album after all, and was released just one year after their previous record.

Most of the vocals for Exile werent finished until the Sunset Sound overdubs sessions either side of Christmas, so it's a bit of a stretch of the imagination to think that, with a tour coming up and time being tight, they finished up over 20 different songs in LA when they only really needed about 9 or 10. In actual fact, its more likely that the scenario of digging out a few leftovers from Let It Bleed and Sticky Fingers and then adding to them to 'pad' things out to two discs is more accurate.

As far as an archives release of this kind is concerned, Exile is probably one of the Stones albums which is least suitable for the inclusion of bonus material, because they were more likely to be using old stuff as filler (á la Tattoo You) for the original release than would be the case for such a project from albums like Some Girls, Beggars Banquet, etc where they genuinely DID have a few finished songs left off because there wasnt room to include them all on a LP-length album.

The 'secrecy' is basically to add to the myth surrounding the record. The amount of music on Exile that was actually recorded at Nellcote is considerably less than what is generally believed. Plus, it doesnt sound quite as magical a concept when you admit that the songs were largely unfinished and were touched up 35 years later by adding new lyrics or vocals laid down by someone who doesnt sing like he did in 1971. The vagueness in the info that came out is presumably to protect that myth. There's been some debate that one or two of the songs may date from a later session (ie GHS). They didnt exactly do themselves any favours by contradicting each other in print about what was added to the old tapes - and even if Mick Taylor added overdubs or not (at one point, the scores on THAT front read that Taylor said he had, Keith said he absolutely hadn't, and Mick Jagger and Don Was both refused to confirm or deny it)

The end is basically a hybrid of old outtakes and new (or even fresh) lyrics in some case. It doesnt bother me personally, because I think it works OK. The embryonic version of 'Soul Survivor' is a bit of fun for a couple of listens, but an album of ten early alternate takes done like that wouldn't have stood up to repeated listening. Jagger was conscious of avoiding stuff that had been bootlegged previously, which I think was a mistake. Most people who bought the new release have probably never heard stuff like 'Hillside Blues' and with 40 minutes or so of a CD left to play with, adding a few songs like that in perfect quality would have made things even better.

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stones78
Well, but didn't Mick Jagger said that he considered songs for this from as early as 1969?

Yes. he considered 'Loving Cup' (July 1969) to be the starting point.

Well, we got one track which was most probably an edit from a 20 minute jam and turned out to be the best track since Start Me Up -Plundered My Soul (the single version that is). We got one track that was from '66, Title 5. One track that is a Jagger solo track, and hence godawful -Following the River. Soul Survivor is a nice view on what the cook is cooking. The rest? Worked up outtakes that are what they are: worked up outtakes.

Mathijs

What was it really? A mixed bag....

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Mathijs
Well, we got one track which was most probably an edit from a 20 minute jam and turned out to be the best track since Start Me Up -Plundered My Soul (the single version that is). We got one track that was from '66, Title 5. One track that is a Jagger solo track, and hence godawful -Following the River. Soul Survivor is a nice view on what the cook is cooking. The rest? Worked up outtakes that are what they are: worked up outtakes.

Mathijs

Exactly.

So Divane and I'm Not Signifying are very good songs, imo

Aladdin Story was played in 1969, during the Let it bleed sessions as well as during the
Exile sessions in Nellcote. I too like the way they transformed this song So divine.

Thanks to all, especially Gazza and Mathijs. Good points. I wasn't really sure.

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71Tele

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Mathijs
Well, we got one track which was most probably an edit from a 20 minute jam and turned out to be the best track since Start Me Up -Plundered My Soul (the single version that is). We got one track that was from '66, Title 5. One track that is a Jagger solo track, and hence godawful -Following the River. Soul Survivor is a nice view on what the cook is cooking. The rest? Worked up outtakes that are what they are: worked up outtakes.

Mathijs

Exactly.

Indeed.

aren't all the lyrics fresh? I didn't think any of the originals had vocals.

I ain't lying certainly had vocals.

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71Tele
Some were admittedly weak, but I don't know for sure if Travellin' Man or Hillside Blues came from the exile period. It was all worth it however, because we got Plundered My Soul, which was the best "new" Stones track in a quarter-century, imo.

I'd say best since Undercover Of The Night.

It seems odd to critique songs that were left off of Exile in the first place, for not being good enough to be from the Exile sessions.

When the vaults finally fly open one day there will be tons of Some Girls tracks that weren't good enough for Some Girls. Lots of 'not quite' tracks from every session.

I' can't wait to hear them and perhaps agree that they should indeed have been left off of their respective LPs.

Still "I Ain't Signifying' would've fit perfectly on Side C of Exile.

So Divine and Dancing in the Light were old jams that were given updated lyrics, or more likely lyrics were written to go with the old instrumentals. Having heard them on old bootlegs, it was fun to hear them with words. Kind of like listening to Miks T's Leather Jacket after hearing it as an instrumental on old boots first.

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Mathijs
We got one track that was from '66, Title 5.

Mathijs

As it features the MRB effect from the Vox Conqueror/Defiant/Supreme the track can't have been recorded any earlier than 1967.

The bass is oddly full for recordings from that period though. Maybe they re-amped it?

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Munichhilton
It seems odd to critique songs that were left off of Exile in the first place, for not being good enough to be from the Exile sessions.

well, they weren't left off so much as not finished. Like, not even close to being finished, at least the ones that were familiar from bootlegs (and the unfamiliar ones seem to have been the most unfinished, hence needing the most 2010 additions). The Some Girls sessions did have some complete songs as outtakes, mainly jagger compositions.

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Munichhilton
It seems odd to critique songs that were left off of Exile in the first place, for not being good enough to be from the Exile sessions.

When the vaults finally fly open one day there will be tons of Some Girls tracks that weren't good enough for Some Girls. Lots of 'not quite' tracks from every session.

I' can't wait to hear them and perhaps agree that they should indeed have been left off of their respective LPs.

Still "I Ain't Signifying' would've fit perfectly on Side C of Exile.

Will they be finished tracks, though?

Based on what's out there, I dont get the impression that the Stones finish many more songs than what they need. Whilst they might work on a lot of extra songs for a record, it appears that they reach a consensus on what's worth spending a lot of time on relatively quickly and the vast majority of the leftovers dont even get as much as a finished lyric or anything more than a guide vocal. I think Bowie has generally worked the same way.

Its different than the likes of Dylan, Young, Springsteen for example - as can be evidenced from various archive releases and studio bootlegs down the years, they've generally tended to finish a lot of songs before shortlisting what they want to use.

I think that the apparent lack of 'finished' songs is a major stumbling block to a career spanning archives release of studio material, or even to expanded releases of several of their albums. You may well end up with another collection of songs that have been touched up decades after their release with insufficient or misleading information given on their origins to play down that fact.

Don Was mentioned "Scarlet" as a track that was left off the EMOS 2010 release...he also said it the song was so good that it would be a hit...

....so We are waiting Don.

the shoot 'em dead, brainbell jangler!