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loveyoulive75
Robbie knew that if they'd've carried on something bad would have happened, and sure enough in 1986 it did in the form of Levon and Rick finding Richard Manuel hanging from his shower curtain rod whilst on tour. If not for The Last Waltz it could have easily been in 1979 or something and Robbie himself making the grisly discovery.

a rather curious comment...robbie left the band hoping it would not function without him because if it did someone would do something like hanging himself?

He probably felt that something would happen, I mean, by all accounts, Richard Manuel was drinking pretty heavily at that point, and he was known to be rather fragile. What would have happened had The Band in its original form continued through the punk & new wave/disco years? The reformed one without Robertson was playing really small venues and was virtually unknown to young people. I don't think that if Robbie had stayed they would have been much bigger than that.

Robertson in the 'Last Waltz' .. when he keeps talking about 'sixteen years on the road'..I guess the rest of The Band felt that way too, but is that really so bad? 16 years? like Keith said in his Rolling Stone interview of '71 I think, 'tell that to B.B. King '.. I think Robbie Robertson was great with the Band, but since then has not done much. Levon, after beating cancer, has made fine, roots rock records. And before that, the Crowmatix stuff is good too. His resentment toward Robertson is because Robertson and Albert Grossman teamed up against the Band to not share writing credits, isn't it?

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stones78
He probably felt that something would happen, I mean, by all accounts, Richard Manuel was drinking pretty heavily at that point, and he was known to be rather fragile. What would have happened had The Band in its original form continued through the punk & new wave/disco years? The reformed one without Robertson was playing really small venues and was virtually unknown to young people. I don't think that if Robbie had stayed they would have been much bigger than that.

Your comments make no sense.

It's good Robbie left when he did because punk would have killed the band, or Richard, or both? Good thing Robbie didn't find Richard's body but had he stayed The Band probably would't have been bigger than the small venues they were playing??

No idea what point you are making.

I adore The Band, and of course Robbie was principal songwriter. However they were totally a band of 5 equal parts as far as I was concerned. Also Robertson comes across as a bit of a pr**k in the interview segments of The Last Waltz. His head was totally turned by Scorcese, and he seems to completely dominate the on-screen footage to the point where I can hardly watch the movie anymore - where the hell are the shots of Richard Manuel?

Of course it was his right to quit the band. Levon Helms contention Re the songwriting credits is that many of the songs grew organically out of jams, yet Robertson took all the credit - who knows? It certainly doesn't seem to me that Helm was much of a songwriter. Yet Robertson couldn't carry a tune in a bucket as a vocalist. He had 3 of the greatest singers ever at his disposal, plus a studio multi-instrumental genius - and he walked away from it all. Threw it away. Such a shame.
Hope the album is good tho, and wish him all the best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-06 20:18 by letitloose.

If you see Levon Helm these days, you are seeing the BAND.

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magenta
If you see Levon Helm these days, you are seeing the BAND.

I would go along with that in the sense that he is now the spirit of the Band - carrier of the torch. Havent been lucky enough tho to catch him live

I saw The Band back in the day with Dylan on the reunion/comeback tour, and they were spectacular. I last saw Robertson at Clapton's Crossroads concert outside Chicago a few years ago, and he could barely play. I hope he's practiced since then.

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bam
I saw The Band back in the day with Dylan on the reunion/comeback tour, and they were spectacular. I last saw Robertson at Clapton's Crossroads concert outside Chicago a few years ago, and he could barely play. I hope he's practiced since then.

you are fortunate to have seen them in their prime. i did have the good fortune of seeing them before ricky passed - at the GAMH in '96 - great show. didn't miss robbie much at all - the backing cast was fabulous. jericho and high on the hog were fun albums, very much in keeping with the spirit of their 70's studio work. their last album wasn't quite to that level.

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reg thorpe
[
He pretty much destroyed "The Band" - the rest of them all hate/hated him

Agreed but that was his intention.. felt that The Band ran its course; he was the driving force and he lost his desire[/quote]

He was the driving force - in his own mind. See what Levon Helm says about him in his book. As for The Last Waltz, the rest of The Band thought he was nuts for wanting to retire the group.

I take no stand in the RR-Levon feud. The only ones who should needed to have been there. I have great respect for RR, his songwriting and guitar playing. He's a sexy musician to watch on stage. What he does is extremely tasteful and done with committment and passion.

I doubt if there is any group or individual I respect more than The Band. Amazingly, when I revisit those first three albums my appreciation continues to grow. It is rich, rich music on many levels.

One of my fond memories was having the opportunity to shake Levon's hand and pay my respects. But RR has the right to do what he wants with his life. So did Lennon. And Levon's allegations that RR is, in effect, a thief breaks my heart. All things considered and over the years I have always thought RR's response to those allegations to be relatively restrained, perhaps out of respect for his old band mate.

I look forward to the new music.

I thought the Jubilation album was incredible. I keep buying copies for friends who thought they finished in the mid 70's. "If I should fail", "High Cotton", "Book faded brown" - wonderful stuff. Unfortunately Helms vocals were suffering a bit (he hadn't fully recovered from throat cancer). I always think of Jubilation as a beautiful swansong for Danko. Jericho I also love. High on the Hog slightly less so. Also worth checking out is the live Manuel concert At The Getaway 1985. He fluffs a few lines and the keyboard sound is rinky dinky, but it is heartbreaking in places.

Love talking about The Band



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-06 20:40 by letitloose.

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pmk251
I take no stand in the RR-Levon feud. The only ones who should needed to have been there. I have great respect for RR, his songwriting and guitar playing. He's a sexy musician to watch on stage. What he does is extremely tasteful and done with committment and passion.

I doubt if there is any group or individual I respect more than The Band. Amazingly, when I revisit those first three albums my appreciation continues to grow. It is rich, rich music on many levels.

One of my fond memories was having the opportunity to shake Levon's hand and pay my respects. But RR has the right to do what he wants with his life. So did Lennon. And Levon's allegations that RR is, in effect, a thief breaks my heart. All things considered and over the years I have always thought RR's response to those allegations to be relatively restrained, perhaps out of respect for his old band mate.

have you considered the possibility that Levon's allegations were accurate?

[
Love talking about The Band[/quote]

One of my favorite "bands" growing up and saw them many times in their heyday..Do you really think that Robertson had an obligation to stay with "The Band"? I don't.. he's like a free agent in baseball..Free to go wherever he wanted to... but I agree.. Solo stuff just doesn't measure up to his earlier "Band" days...but what musician or band does?

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letitloose
I thought the Jubilation album was incredible. I keep buying copies for friends who thought they finished in the mid 70's. "If I should fail", "High Cotton", "Book faded brown" - wonderful stuff. Unfortunately Helms vocals were suffering a bit (he hadn't fully recovered from throat cancer). I always think of Jubilation as a beautiful swansong for Danko. Jericho I also love. High on the Hog slightly less so. Also worth checking out is the live Manuel concert At The Getaway 1985. He fluffs a few lines and the keyboard sound is rinky dinky, but it is heartbreaking in places.

Love talking about The Band

didn't levon's throat surgery occur after the recording of jubilation, which was recorded in '98? i seem to recall he didn't sing again publicly until around 2004....

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reg thorpe
One of my favorite "bands" growing up and saw them many times in their heyday..Do you really think that Robertson had an obligation to stay with "The Band"? I don't.. he's like a free agent in baseball..Free to go wherever he wanted to... but I agree.. Solo stuff just doesn't measure up to his earlier "Band" days...but what musician or band does?

i don't think anyone here is suggesting he had any such obligation...but leaving is one thing - trying to put the act away is another matter.

Fantastic to see the return of one of the best songwriters ever! But unfortunately nothing's changed since the days of THE BAND - Robbie can't sing! His voice's sounding very tinny and flat.
...one of the reasons why they turned off his mic during their live performances.

Keep on rollin'
Gangster

<<have you considered the possibility that Levon's allegations were accurate?>>

Sure I have, but where does that leave you? Authorship is a very murky thing to pin down. If Bob Dylan brings a song to the studio and other musicians contribute to the final release are they now authors? Certainly, members of "The Band" contributed to all the songs, no question, but where is the line between authorship and contribution? RR was criticized when he said it was "their job." To some degree I agree, just as it is a studio musician's "job."

Again, I do not want to take sides. I was not there. But I thought Levon's allegations to be long after the fact, relatively poorly supported and never litigated. The only specific thing I recall from his book was Manuel's contribution of the line "two bits a shot" to Life Is A Carnival. Is he a co-author for that? Levon called someone a thief and never did anything about it. Right or wrong, that is very heavy handed.

Perhaps someone can help me with this, but I do not recall seeing anything that Levon's animosity was supported by other members of the band. Both Danko and Garth played on RR's solo efforts and joined him on stage at one of the RnR HOF moments.

My gut feeling? Nevermind, I will keep it to myself. I am not qualified. I was not there.

i don't have an opinion on the matter, either....even less of one than you, i think! was just asking since you seem convinced that levon was in the wrong.

where i definitely believe robbie to be in the wrong is the belief of his relative importance in the band. perhaps (PERHAPS) he was its primary songwriter, but i think the band was one of those entities where the contributions were equal among the five. that's why the band was able to quite easily survive his absence - they were still 80% solid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-06 21:47 by StonesTod.

We can discuss a lot concerning the relationship between RR an LH, but at the end, just this two guys are knowing what's really happend between them.

Concerning the contributions and credits, just think about the fact that the reformed BAND were constantly looking for songwriters. Why they did it? It seems to me that there's just one answer to this question.....

Keep on rollin'
Gangster

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Gangster-of-love
Concerning the contributions and credits, just think about the fact that the reformed BAND were constantly looking for songwriters. Why they did it? It seems to me that there's just one answer to this question.....

cos they needed songs to play?

Why they did it? It seems to me that there's just one answer to this question.....[/quote]

Cos they wanted the groupies?

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StonesTod

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Gangster-of-love
Concerning the contributions and credits, just think about the fact that the reformed BAND were constantly looking for songwriters. Why they did it? It seems to me that there's just one answer to this question.....

cos they needed songs to play?

Could be possible, but it seems to be that the BAND without RR wasn't able to create some new stuff. And when they weren't able to create something new, they wouldn't have been done any major contributions in the days of the original line-up.

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Gangster-of-love

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StonesTod

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Gangster-of-love
Concerning the contributions and credits, just think about the fact that the reformed BAND were constantly looking for songwriters. Why they did it? It seems to me that there's just one answer to this question.....

cos they needed songs to play?

Could be possible, but it seems to be that the BAND without RR wasn't able to create some new stuff. And when they weren't able to create something new, they wouldn't have been done any major contributions in the days of the original line-up.

i don't think there's any question that robbie was a key contributor to the songs they created....even levon says so. it's a question as to whether he was the ONLY contributor....

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StonesTod

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Gangster-of-love

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StonesTod

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Gangster-of-love
Concerning the contributions and credits, just think about the fact that the reformed BAND were constantly looking for songwriters. Why they did it? It seems to me that there's just one answer to this question.....

cos they needed songs to play?

Could be possible, but it seems to be that the BAND without RR wasn't able to create some new stuff. And when they weren't able to create something new, they wouldn't have been done any major contributions in the days of the original line-up.

i don't think there's any question that robbie was a key contributor to the songs they created....even levon says so. it's a question as to whether he was the ONLY contributor....

Hear the stuff of the reformed Band and after that play the brown album and you'll know how the big boss was!

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Gangster-of-love

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StonesTod

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Gangster-of-love

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StonesTod

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Gangster-of-love
Concerning the contributions and credits, just think about the fact that the reformed BAND were constantly looking for songwriters. Why they did it? It seems to me that there's just one answer to this question.....

cos they needed songs to play?

Could be possible, but it seems to be that the BAND without RR wasn't able to create some new stuff. And when they weren't able to create something new, they wouldn't have been done any major contributions in the days of the original line-up.

i don't think there's any question that robbie was a key contributor to the songs they created....even levon says so. it's a question as to whether he was the ONLY contributor....

Hear the stuff of the reformed Band and after that play the brown album and you'll know how the big boss was!

conversely, check the first two RR solo albums for an idea of how well he fared writing songs without input from his former mates. works both ways....

Tod - touche....

Keep on rollin'
Gangster

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Gangster-of-love
Tod - touche....

phew! finally! i was getting exhausted.....

They were the only band I can think of where every member was equally importantly. Its a shame that Robertson seemed to take the position that it was HIS band. As I said previously:
1] It was his right to leave
2] The rest of em were better without him than he was on his own
3] He threw away something totally magical and unique.

Hope the solo album is good - and RIP Richard and Rick

Gotta love the Band!l